The Commish
Footballguy
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timschochet’s political thoughts and commentary- back in here until the election is done (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
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timschochet
Footballguy
dgreen
Footballguy
I'll take the under. I don't how we wait until late March for the next stimulus bill.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
I keep taking the under and it’s now been 7 months. I hope I’m wrong but don’t see how somethings agreed to until after Biden is sworn in end of January.
massraider
Footballguy
Neither do I.
Maybe the Senate decides to approve something after election to take some credit? Seems unlikely, but within range of outcomes?
Snorkelson
Footballguy
I think if Trump loses there are two roads they go.
1. pass a stimulus so the democrats can’t take credit for it
2. make things as bad as possible so the incoming administration has a more difficult time. Trump is vindictive.
Theoretically by the time Inauguration Day comes around we could have millions more without healthcare. I suppose we’ll see if they keep trying to change the SNAP program, which a federal judge just halted changes to. I’m sure there aren’t that many struggling families needing assistance. These are the priorities, also the same people who want to privatize social security and education. I doubt if they pass a stimulus it will be because they care about the people, because it’s pretty clear that they don’t.
timschochet
Footballguy
Trump’s rhetoric is uglier than ever: more racist, more divisive:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/19/politics/donald-trump-joe-biden-election-2020-coronavirus-fauci-masks/index.html
A few days ago I complained about how bad this forum has gotten lately, mostly, IMO, due to trolling by some Trump supporters. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this sort of behavior is being matched by Trump himself. I think they know they’re going to lose and are determined to make things as awful as possible.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/19/politics/donald-trump-joe-biden-election-2020-coronavirus-fauci-masks/index.html
A few days ago I complained about how bad this forum has gotten lately, mostly, IMO, due to trolling by some Trump supporters. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this sort of behavior is being matched by Trump himself. I think they know they’re going to lose and are determined to make things as awful as possible.
timschochet
Footballguy
If I woke up this morning from a 50 year coma and the first bit of news I learned, before anything else, that there are long lines of people waiting to vote two weeks before Election Day, I would conclude immediately that the nation is in grave crisis.
timschochet
Footballguy
“Fauci and all these idiots”- Yikes.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Cross posting since I’m interested in your opinion (& others), and you are again in self-quarantine:
Debate Topics for Thursday
fighting Covid-19
American families
race in America
climate change
national security
leadership
Have we ever had a Presidential Election with less talk about Foreign Policy than the current one?
The Heritage Foundation defines national security is the safekeeping of the nation as a whole; its highest order of business is the protection of the nation and its people from attack and other external dangers by maintaining armed forces and guarding state secrets. So defense spending, intelligence....I would imagine Trump will want to expand this to include border security.
The other thing that strikes me about this list of topics is how often Trump will, by default, be on the defensive. Now some of that should be expected for any incumbent; after all, you're mostly running on your record, not promises. But think about it:
Covid-19 is going to be a discussion of the poor response and how Biden's plan will differ, while Trump will try to maintain in fact his response was a 10/10.
American families - I would give the GOP the edge here? Because family values? Not even sure what this means. The disintegration of nuclear families? The shaky economic frailty so many feel? Help me out here.
Race - again, Trump will be defending his position (and am I wrong to think this has been covered ad nauseum the first two debates?), contrasting his law & order policy with "the radical left", et al.
Climate change - defending outliers versus trusting science. Again, I feel like Trump by default is going to look defensive.
Leadership - the disrupter versus Mr Rogers. Should be fun.
Bad take? Or do you agree somewhat?
timschochet
Footballguy
Agreed mostly.
Usually the third debate is devoted to foreign policy (which is why so few people watch compared to the first 2) but since there’s no 2nd debate something’s gotta go and I guess it makes sense. Though I honestly don’t think there’s any point to discussing covid or race again- what new is Trump going to say on either of those subjects?
Climate change will be the first time ever that Trump has publicly been challenged on this issue, which is the most important issue before us. After endless hours of press conferences, interviews, previous debates, we’re finally going to get 5 minutes of discussion on climate change. Amazing. And of course neither Trump nor Republicans in general want to discuss this because their position, that either they don’t think it exists, or that they support those who don’t think it exists, is unsustainable.
No idea about American families. I expect Trump to try to talk about Hunter Biden. Hope the moderator cuts him off.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Good point on the reason the theme of #3 shifted, somehow I didn't consider that (we did after all have dueling town halls.)
Maybe I'm off base here but it seems like most of these topics - at least 4, probably 5 - are a huge advantage for Team Blue. The last one, American Families, none of us can figure out. Everything else, you could build an entire progressive speech around: pandemic response, racial protests/refusing to condemn extremists, being on the side of science with respect to the environment, $13B diverted from the military to build a wall that won't work - or maybe talk about separating families & locking up kids in cages - and leadership so far outside of the norm it is embarrassing.
Just cannot see how Trump can stay on topic and win any of these topics.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Nope. We discussed this the other day. Read some of the other threads. If you refuse to see it I can’t really help you do so.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
The more I think about it, the more I understand why President Trump resorted to interruptions, talking over the top of Biden and the moderators, bullying tactics, et al, during the first debate. The longer he goes trying to explain a position, the more nonsensical his answers become. He simply doesn't understand anything of nuance. He cannot articulate the simplest of policy positions. Going full bluster is in fact his best tactic.
This was never more apparent than in the dueling town halls. Biden took his time answering, making sure he covered all relevant points, almost always asked the questioner "did that answer your question?" or "do I need to explain more?" Even stayed after the cameras were off to answer more questions or circle back on topics. Meanwhile Trump looked like he was spoiling for a fight all night, and the word salads that came out weren't anything close to being cogent. The more he talks the worse he makes himself look.
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Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Just a hunch for now, but Trump seems to be angling to back out of the final debate. The campaign is currently looking to blame the debate commission, but if something better comes up he’ll use it to back out.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Maybe - I think Trump would do anything that he thinks will help him win. One thing you have to maybe give Trump credit for as a politician is not being tied to any one strategy or old school thinking. He will pivot on a dime if he thinks he'll gain an advantage. But I think the "he thinks" part comes solely from his gut. And I still think he guts tells him that he looks strong on the debate stage doing what he did during the first debate - despite most of us saying it was a train wreck.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
He should really drop out of the 3rd debate. He is not capable of giving Joe the chance to make himself look bad. Trump is a true bully, and he doesn't know how to handle things when he gets punched in the nose. He ends up interrupting, speaking over people, and adding insults because he has this perception that he looked weak for a few seconds. He cannot contain himself. He has to be the Alpha Male at all costs, and he just doesn't get how pathetic it looks.
timschochet
Footballguy
He's not wrong though. If one is going to make accusations like that, back them up with a link or quote. Thanks.
timschochet
Footballguy
Except that I didn’t make a specific accusation. What I offered was a general compliant that the tone in this forum has gotten ugly in recent days, from some Trump supporters (certainly not all) and it’s matching Trump’s own tone.
I probably shouldn’t have used the word racist. Trump’s recent statements have been racist and I absolutely stand by that, but I didn’t mean to accuse any supporters here of making specific racist statements, just ugly ones. I apologize for conflating the two.
But I’m not offering specific examples because I don’t want to get into a discussion of what defines ugly. IMO the whole Hunter Biden story is ugly, it’s in the mud sleaze and anyone who persists in bringing it up is trolling.
That's an accusation and you know it.
You are correct and you're absolutely conflating the two.
Please don't do that anymore and let's move on. I'm so beyond sick of all this.
timschochet
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I read earlier they were on the phone for an hour today, incremental progress. Doesn’t sound like they’re close & McConnell’s office said there’s two other bills in front of it in the queue (more small business loans package and sumtin’ sumtin.) Not on the same as the WH.
Why is that trolling? I don't understand why this is not being looked into. Biden's camp is not refuting it. Were you ok with the media using the Dossier as the source of truth for reporting on Trump/Russia when that was not verified and turned out to be inaccurate? The protection of Biden by the national media is sad to see. He doesn't have to answer questions, he's given credit for addressing the court packing question even though he still won't answer a question about radically changing Congress and the judicial branch. Is this a return to normalcy? The media should do their jobs and report the facts. If this were a story about one of the Trump kids, this story would be getting end to end media coverage. This one isn't very difficult and everyone should demand the media do their jobs, and not act as a white washing for one candidate. Very sad.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
You are acting as if "report the facts" means "publish hacked emails from private citizens". That is a very dangerous line of thinking.
As a society, we should not lower the bar by blurring the line between a public political candidate and a private citizen. Joe Biden's private activities are fair game; his son's are not.
The comparison to Trump's children is mostly unwarranted. Three of his children work for him; therefore, their questionable business or government activities are inherently fair game.
(However, if someone had hacked Tiffany Trump's emails, I would agree that it would be inappropriate to publish them.)
Also, Hunter Biden's emails do not contain any evidence of Joe Biden committing a crime. And even if the so-called "smoking gun" aspects were true (i.e., Joe met with a Ukrainian), that still wouldn't be a crime.
So, you are basically calling for an investigation into something that wouldn't be illegal even if it had happened. There's no "there" there.
The comparison to the Steele dossier is a fair one. But there are two important distinctions here: 1) the Steele dossier does not contain the hacked emails of a private citizen, and 2) the mainstream media did not report on it prior to the election! Steele actually tried to get several major media outlets to publish a story on the dossier in the summer of 2016 (including the Washington Post and the NY Times), but they wouldn't touch it because it couldn't be verified. It wasn't until January 2017 that the dossier became public -- but only because it was illegally uploaded by Buzzfeed.
You said that the media should "do their jobs" -- and I would argue that they already are. Fox News did its job by refusing to publish the story; other outlets (such as the Washington Post) did their job by reporting on the laptop while also giving the proper weight to Rudy Giuliani's involvement and the fact that the NY Post writers refused to let their names be attached to the byline. The mainstream media is not suppressing the story; they are simply refusing to give it more relevance than it currently deserves.
The Commish
Footballguy
It WAS looked in too...multiple times. Investigation and everything. How many more times do we need it investigated? Imagine opening another investigation into Ukraine and how Trump supporters would react to that. Of course, now these recent events are being looked at by federal authorities...been doing that for over a year. First rumblings of this "surprise" were presented to the WH a year ago.
timschochet
Footballguy
So if Pelosi and Mnuchin reach a deal today, would Senate Republicans really balk the President and refuse to vote for it?
Part of me thinks that the answer is yes, and for that reason Trump will make sure that there is no deal reached so that he can blame the Democrats rather than confront the fact that he has no power over his own party; this, in effect, is exactly what happened when the DACA negotiations failed a couple of years ago.
And yet the pressure to get a deal done is so huge and growing every day. That’s the sole reason I remain optimistic.
Part of me thinks that the answer is yes, and for that reason Trump will make sure that there is no deal reached so that he can blame the Democrats rather than confront the fact that he has no power over his own party; this, in effect, is exactly what happened when the DACA negotiations failed a couple of years ago.
And yet the pressure to get a deal done is so huge and growing every day. That’s the sole reason I remain optimistic.
timschochet
Footballguy
McConnell now says he will bring any deal between Pelosi and Mnuchin to the floor. That’s a big turnaround.
Caveat: he says “at some point”.
Caveat: he says “at some point”.
The Commish
Footballguy
He must think they have a shot at keeping the Senate
(wow...typing those words really shows the change in our political landscape in just the last few months)
squistion
Footballguy
I just saw this but it may have come before what McConnell said that you quoted above:timschochet said:
The New York Times @nytimes 1h
Senator Mitch McConnell told Republicans he has advised the White House against striking a stimulus deal with Democrats before the election.
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1318651959205912581
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
The Time article pretty much covers everything.
- Pelosi thinks that the negotiations with the White House are close and they will continue on Wednesday (Another article said that the legislation was now being drafted though the differences create challenges.)
- McConnell told GOP senators that the White House negotiating a deal before the election potentially gums up the works for the Supreme Court nomination as well as forces GOP senators in close races to choose between voting for a massive spending bill or defying the president. He told reporter that the senate would consider such a deal, on the floor at some point.
- Mnuchin says they found “common ground as they move closer to an agreement.”
Widbil83
Footballguy
Yeah I did, started a thread the other day with CNN expressing my opinion of Pelosi being the problem.
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/789422-nancy-pelosi-call-wolf-blitzer-a-gop-apologist-in-wild-interview/
President Trump was in your neck of the woods the other day in California , did you see the tens of thousands of people lined up? This isn’t supposed to be happening.
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1317952428759678976?s=21
squistion
Footballguy
Yeah, lining the streets in the Republican enclave of Newport Beach, where the median household income is $107k per year (and where they had one of the first yacht flotillas). And is was hundreds, not tens of thousands.
timschochet
Footballguy
Yep. Newport Beach. Doesn’t surprise me, it’s Trump territory. But it’s a wonderful place to live. Unbelievably gorgeous in the summer which is pretty much all year.
timschochet
Footballguy
Newport Beach has a TON of Republicans for sure. But it also has a congressman named Harley Rouda. Times are changing....
timschochet
Footballguy
There’s a mountain community overlooking Newport Harbor called Newport Coast. All the homes are between 8-12,000 feet, and they’re all palaces. That’s where Kobe Bryant lived.
timschochet
Footballguy
OK last thing about Newport and I will leave it alone: there’s a part on the water called Lido Island: shops, restaurants, homes. In Lido there is a Japanese restaurant called Nobu. Super expensive, hard to get into. But it’s the best sushi/sashimi I’ve ever had in my life. Everything there is incredible. Small portions though.
timschochet
Footballguy
We’re the traditional home of the GOP. Both the Richard Nixon Library and the Ronald Reagan Library are within driving distance of my house.
Please let us know when nyt will provide any of the trump tax returns that they have.
rockaction
Footballguy
You're the home of national GOP presidents. That does not mean you are the home of the GOP.
Come to think of it, I don't think the GOP has a home. Probably AZ more than anywhere. That's Goldwater country, and he helped change the face of the party for good.
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