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Fantasy Football - State of the Industry (1 Viewer)

BassNBrew

BassNBrew

Footballguy
I initially wanted to start a thread on DFS, but will leave it more broad to include more people.  I wanted to get the opinions of the regulars on the shark pool about daily fantasy football, but feel free to weigh in on season long.  Would like to know what you season long contest players are seeing in the industry.

Three (maybe four) years ago DFS came long like gangbusters.  I'm just not seeing the interest in it like I had in years past and noticed this sometime last year well prior to the pandemic.  The DFS forum is practically a ghost town.The week 1 thread has 12 posts.  Last year and the year before it was two pages long and five pages the year prior to that.  Personally I won money until last year when I lost a small amount.  Fan dual has pushed the rake to 19% which is insanity IMO.  In years past I would have had $200 to $500 in play most weeks.  This year it looks like I'll have 50 cents in play.  I dropped my FBG subscription down a tier because the quite honestly the tools weren't making a significant difference and the season long content was just as helpful.  Another tell tale sign to back off my playing was David Dodds leaving Fandual to play at a lower rake site.  Maybe I should follow along, but I wonder if the whales have moved to these sites.  Honestly been too lazy to follow along.

I suspect DFS will be a slowly sinking ship with only the people chasing the lottery pots remaining.  It's probably done irreversible damage to the season long formats and they'll won't experience a big bounce back.  Given our shorter attention spans, I suspect that most of these players leaving dfs will migrate to straight up game and prop betting as it becomes more legal.  The grinders will also have more success as the rakes are significantly less.  

"Why manage a season long team when you can have instant gratification putting together a weekly team?" will become

"Why put together a dozen weekly teams and wait a day for gratification when you can bet the over on Preston Williams receiving yards an win in the first half?"

 
[icon] said:
Greedy DFS Rake + Content Upcharges + Pros/Bots + Playing Random Folks = DFS Sucks. 
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I have played exactly once. I didn’t like it. I get the overall concept of keeping things interesting if your seasonal teams tank bit that’s really the only thing that would interest me. My buddies and I have moved to an offline one-and-done on the side as it keeps the draft fun alive.  Far more enjoyable to me. We pay out weekly high point and season long record. No rake. With friends. 

 
I play a good amount of DFS, I just don't post about it on the Forums. I see FanDuel + DraftKings slowly recovering as more sports start to get played in this COVID-19 era, it's just a slow process of recovery (and hopefully no mass spread of contagion).

There are many kinds of DFS players, and I'm a grinder to plays small pots/cash games/multipliers a.k.a "The Grinder". I like to dabble in the 1pm/4pm or 425/830 games every week for NFL.

 
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I feel like they’re 3 different things. 
 

1. season-long leagues. I play with friends. Good smack talk, challenging format, bragging rights. 

2. DFS - took me a while to warm to it, which I eventually did with baseball, then football. I’ve cashed $500 3x, and $750 was my biggest pull, all baseball. I cashed $100 twice and $30-70 in football. It’s basically gambling more than it is FF. 

3. actual sports betting. I still dabble on a weekly basis in NFL gambling, but not as much as when I was younger.

i definitely see DFS/Gambling as different animals. My love for FF in a season-long league is still as strong as ever, with the more gambling-oriented DFS/NFL betting something I occasionally do for fun. 

 
Good topic @BassNBrew

I'm biased as I have a vested interest but I'm also very close to it. I think I have a good read on the industry. 

DFS has matured. Most everyone now has had a chance to play and see if they like it. To me, it's a very different vibe.

I personally love Season Long primarily for the community. To me, Fantasy Football is hanging out with buddies and talking smack and having fun. That's the best part. I love the big contests and obviously the Footballguys Players Championship is a huge part of our business. But I see that as an extra thing to do with your local league. 

We also have a local league that plays in Friends mode on Fanduel and it's fantastic. Benefit of the camaraderie but the fun of the DFS format so you're not hurt by injury. I love it too. 

The next big change obviously is as sports books become legal in more states, we'll see added focus there. And that can be super interesting too if you like that. 

All in all, I think the industry's extremely healthy as people keep pouring in.

 
A LOT of my friends, myself included, are getting tired of the greedy NFL. For the first time ever, my local league of 25 years lost TWO founding members with others stating this is their last season. I’m not far behind tbh. Everything from the greed, to the unawares of social issues to the now 3.5-4 hour game times with too much stoppage has driven people away. The younger generation couldn’t care less about watching sports. My 12 year old son is a beast on the field but does not enjoy watching the 4 hour games with 45 minutes of action. He watches YouTube highlights instead. I find it hard to believe that new fans keep “pouring in”. I’d like to see some stats on that. Goodell may have been a short term win for the owners but he’s certainly going to cause the macro loss for the NFL. It’s a shame. It used to be the greatest sport but now it’s just a sham. 

 
The Frankman said:
I play a good amount of DFS, I just don't post about it on the Forums. I see FanDuel + DraftKings slowly recovering as more sports start to get played in this COVID-19 era, it's just a slow process of recovery (and hopefully no mass spread of contagion).

There are many kinds of DFS players, and I'm a grinder to plays small pots/cash games/multipliers a.k.a "The Grinder". I like to dabble in the 1pm/4pm or 425/830 games every week for NFL.
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I guess you are playing the 10% rakes on the cash games?  The 19% rake on the tournies is insanity.

 
BassNBrew said:
I guess you are playing the 10% rakes on the cash games?  The 19% rake on the tournies is insanity.
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Yeah. occasionally I'll play a $4 tourney but that's usually as high as I'll go for those. I started on FD back when they had that horrible site design in 2012 (I think?), and stopped playing for years, then started back up on NFL in 2014. I do a lot of NBA and dabbled in MLB for awhile, but I mostly play NFL. When I set my team for season-long, I set my DFS team. It mreally makes my Sundays busy because I'm trying to watch multiple games while fixing my DFS teams and do some of the board updates.

 
Joe Bryant said:
Good topic @BassNBrew

I'm biased as I have a vested interest but I'm also very close to it. I think I have a good read on the industry. 

DFS has matured. Most everyone now has had a chance to play and see if they like it. To me, it's a very different vibe.

I personally love Season Long primarily for the community. To me, Fantasy Football is hanging out with buddies and talking smack and having fun. That's the best part. I love the big contests and obviously the Footballguys Players Championship is a huge part of our business. But I see that as an extra thing to do with your local league. 

We also have a local league that plays in Friends mode on Fanduel and it's fantastic. Benefit of the camaraderie but the fun of the DFS format so you're not hurt by injury. I love it too. 

The next big change obviously is as sports books become legal in more states, we'll see added focus there. And that can be super interesting too if you like that. 

All in all, I think the industry's extremely healthy as people keep pouring in.
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Obviously you have the best read of anyone here.  Do you see the lack of activity in the DFS forum as an indication that Daily is falling off?  

Also, when the next big change occurs, will you be adding a third leg to the FBG platform to capture those wagering and playing props?  I can see it now...Sigmund Bloom's 5 star lock of the week and it's free.  11-1 on the season against the spread, Bloom is the hottest prognosticator int he industry.  Biggest game of the year.  We've got inside information that you'll want to hear.  Subscribe to Footballguys for this guaranteed winner.

Obviously exaggerating there, but I'm sure you've had thoughts about this opportunity that's right around the corner.

 
Joe Bryant said:
Good topic @BassNBrew

I'm biased as I have a vested interest but I'm also very close to it. I think I have a good read on the industry. 

DFS has matured. Most everyone now has had a chance to play and see if they like it. To me, it's a very different vibe.

I personally love Season Long primarily for the community. To me, Fantasy Football is hanging out with buddies and talking smack and having fun. That's the best part. I love the big contests and obviously the Footballguys Players Championship is a huge part of our business. But I see that as an extra thing to do with your local league. 

We also have a local league that plays in Friends mode on Fanduel and it's fantastic. Benefit of the camaraderie but the fun of the DFS format so you're not hurt by injury. I love it too. 

The next big change obviously is as sports books become legal in more states, we'll see added focus there. And that can be super interesting too if you like that. 

All in all, I think the industry's extremely healthy as people keep pouring in.
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Have you seen growth in the dynasty area too?  I appreciate the FBG dynasty show

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
A LOT of my friends, myself included, are getting tired of the greedy NFL. For the first time ever, my local league of 25 years lost TWO founding members with others stating this is their last season. I’m not far behind tbh. Everything from the greed, to the unawares of social issues to the now 3.5-4 hour game times with too much stoppage has driven people away. The younger generation couldn’t care less about watching sports. My 12 year old son is a beast on the field but does not enjoy watching the 4 hour games with 45 minutes of action. He watches YouTube highlights instead. I find it hard to believe that new fans keep “pouring in”. I’d like to see some stats on that. Goodell may have been a short term win for the owners but he’s certainly going to cause the macro loss for the NFL. It’s a shame. It used to be the greatest sport but now it’s just a sham. 
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Oh my. Either watch red zone or on tape delay is the only way to go IMO. 

Otherwise, the commercials are definitely unbearable. 

The NFL isn't any more greedy than everything else though.  Go to a web site owned by a large corporation and the advertising thrown at you is on a new level. 

 
DFS is still fun but multi entry tourneys suck. Stick to the single entry tourneys. 

And regarding variance, that's part of the game. Deal with it. There's variance as well in large poker tournaments. 

 
Stephen Holloway said:
I am probably not typical of fantasy football folks as I do not gamble, just enjoy watching football and the camaraderie of league members. Season long redraft is all I do.
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Not at all. I suspect you are exactly typical of fantasy players. There are far, far more season league participants than gamblers, and I would say very few of my friends who play even suspect that a site like Football Guys exists. They are even less aware of DFS.  DFS appeals to folks who like to gamble. Personally, I have a visceral aversion to gambling, as the $$ I earn represents my hard-won time and effort, and to throw that away on chance seems like madness to me. I invest every spare $ I have and put it to work for me, and that philosophy has not failed me so far in 66 years.

 
higgins said:
There seems to be a lotta new young whippersnappers in the shark pool these days & I don’t like that. 
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This kind of mentality is garbage. 

I have nothing to add to the discussion really. I tend to agree with Joe. The industry seems healthy and will gain strength once legalized online betting takes shape. That market is still murky. I suspect we'll see more and more interest in all forms of Fantasy/gambling as the industry matures. 

 
Fantasy football isn't going anywhere.  Some people just lose their interest, but new people will always show up to fill the gaps.  It seems to grow every year, this year may be an exception for obvious reasons, but I think the industry is fine.

The DFS forum is fairly useless.  It isn't even moderated, which is obvious by all the "looking for leagues" posted in there.  The site content, I think, is quite good, but I agree with a couple people earlier.  Someone said filling in lineups feels like a grind.  Someone else said stick to single entry tournaments.  I agree with both, even if I don't always follow the advice.  I do much better, overall, in single entry.  I also have to say that DFS golf is a lot of fun.  

Sports betting is going to be legal most everywhere in the near future.  I enjoy it on a small scale, but betting NFL is not really a +EV for the casual gambler.  Props seem to be the better way to go on NFL.  Again, throwing a few bucks on golf can be fun, too.

 
dipandglide said:
This kind of mentality is garbage. 

I have nothing to add to the discussion really. I tend to agree with Joe. The industry seems healthy and will gain strength once legalized online betting takes shape. That market is still murky. I suspect we'll see more and more interest in all forms of Fantasy/gambling as the industry matures. 
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Why?  NFL betting has never been difficult to get to. Unless some states don't let people do DFS?  I don't really see the connection.  DFS gamblers and side gamblers seem a different demographic, with some but not an insane amount of overlap.

 
In my amateur eyes FF is in trouble. As someone mentioned, the majority of younger generations (that I see anyway) don’t sit and watch games. The interest is just not there IMO. I still love it and play in one redraft and one dynasty. Mostly the same owners over the last 20 or so years. Dynasty is by far my favorite as I enjoy the all-season aspect and future strategy that is involved. However I believe I am a dying breed. And if the NFL begrudgingly continues its ways (greed....more games...terrible stances...slowed pace...) it will continue to lose fans. I would say about five years ago I started enjoying college football 10x more than the NFL and that continues. You can feel the energy with college football which the NFL has vacuumed out of there game. I hang with FF because I love football and have been lucky enough to be in leagues with the same friends (only a couple changes) for around 20 years. If those leagues for some reason fade I would absolutely be done.

 
The only way I can watch a recorded game is if I am watching alone. Hard to beat the camaraderie , emotion, and excitement you get when watching  a live game at home with friends, and that is all enhanced by FF.

For me nothing beats deep dynasty with IDP,  redraft is ok if you know the other owners, and DFS is just ok. I played DFS for a couple years but only so much free time in a week and I would much rather speculate on stocks.

 
BassNBrew said:
"Why put together a dozen weekly teams and wait a day for gratification when you can bet the over on Preston Williams receiving yards an win in the first half?"
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This is where I’m at. Season long is fun, but you can be the most prepared at your draft and your top guys go down with injury. It’s such a lucky crap shoot. 

The overall decline in interest in sports is ultimately going to affect fantasy sports as well. Fantasy sports has peaked in my mind. As sportsbooks become more legalized across the country you will see a shift toward that. It’s faster gratification, as you mention. Fantasy sports will never die, but with so many goofy variations out there (I just found out what a vampire league is), it’s obvious people are getting bored with the same old season long leagues. You see Twitter becoming a larger source of shared information than message boards. The world is moving faster and people want results sooner. 

 
King of the Jungle said:
In my amateur eyes FF is in trouble. As someone mentioned, the majority of younger generations (that I see anyway) don’t sit and watch games. The interest is just not there IMO. I still love it and play in one redraft and one dynasty. Mostly the same owners over the last 20 or so years. Dynasty is by far my favorite as I enjoy the all-season aspect and future strategy that is involved. However I believe I am a dying breed. And if the NFL begrudgingly continues its ways (greed....more games...terrible stances...slowed pace...) it will continue to lose fans. I would say about five years ago I started enjoying college football 10x more than the NFL and that continues. You can feel the energy with college football which the NFL has vacuumed out of there game. I hang with FF because I love football and have been lucky enough to be in leagues with the same friends (only a couple changes) for around 20 years. If those leagues for some reason fade I would absolutely be done.
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I got into college football last year... really fun. I share your remarks above

 
I love FF, have ever since I my dad let me tag along to his draft night when I was a kid.  But I can honestly say that if it weren't for redzone I wouldn't watch nearly as much nfl as I do.

 
kittenmittens said:
Have you seen growth in the dynasty area too?  I appreciate the FBG dynasty show
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Dynasty is a pretty mature area. Not a lot of growth but continued development. Dynasty attracts naturally a more serious and committed type person. There aren't many casual Dynasty people. We've tried to more at Footballguys in Dynasty with with a lot more content from Chad and Jordan as the feedback I got was people desired more Dynasty content from us. 

 
King of the Jungle said:
In my amateur eyes FF is in trouble. As someone mentioned, the majority of younger generations (that I see anyway) don’t sit and watch games. The interest is just not there IMO. I still love it and play in one redraft and one dynasty. Mostly the same owners over the last 20 or so years. Dynasty is by far my favorite as I enjoy the all-season aspect and future strategy that is involved. However I believe I am a dying breed. And if the NFL begrudgingly continues its ways (greed....more games...terrible stances...slowed pace...) it will continue to lose fans. I would say about five years ago I started enjoying college football 10x more than the NFL and that continues. You can feel the energy with college football which the NFL has vacuumed out of there game. I hang with FF because I love football and have been lucky enough to be in leagues with the same friends (only a couple changes) for around 20 years. If those leagues for some reason fade I would absolutely be done.
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Thanks. I don't see that as a factor at all. Young people might have a shorter attention span, but they're not stopping group activities. I've been super encouraged at how many young people are in the space. Fantasy Football used to be a dorky old guy thing. Now every college kid you see is in two leagues. 

 
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King of the Jungle said:
In my amateur eyes FF is in trouble. As someone mentioned, the majority of younger generations (that I see anyway) don’t sit and watch games. The interest is just not there IMO. I still love it and play in one redraft and one dynasty. Mostly the same owners over the last 20 or so years. Dynasty is by far my favorite as I enjoy the all-season aspect and future strategy that is involved. However I believe I am a dying breed. And if the NFL begrudgingly continues its ways (greed....more games...terrible stances...slowed pace...) it will continue to lose fans. I would say about five years ago I started enjoying college football 10x more than the NFL and that continues. You can feel the energy with college football which the NFL has vacuumed out of there game. I hang with FF because I love football and have been lucky enough to be in leagues with the same friends (only a couple changes) for around 20 years. If those leagues for some reason fade I would absolutely be done.
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I think it's important to be self aware.

Super complicated Dynasty IDP leagues with tons of rules run by old dudes is definitely a different thing. The college kids aren't playing those. They're in a 10 Team league run on Sleeper with their buddies and smack talk discord chat with emojis. And it's cool. They think we're total dorks. And that's ok. It's just different ways to play Fantasy Football. 

 
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Joe Bryant said:
Thanks. I don't see that as a factor at all. Young people might have a shorter attention span, but they're not stopping group activities. I've been super encouraged at how many young people are in the space. Fantasy Football used to be a dorky old guy thing. Now every college kid you see is in two leagues. 
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Yep, I love when I hear some of my students talking about their leagues. It's typically really smart kids who take all kinds of honors classes funny enough. Also, cracks me up because as smart as they are, they have a lot to learn about fantasy. I will toss them some tips from time to time. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
Thanks. I don't see that as a factor at all. Young people might have a shorter attention span, but they're not stopping group activities. I've been super encouraged at how many young people are in the space. Fantasy Football used to be a dorky old guy thing. Now every college kid you see is in two leagues. 
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You would certainly know more than I do...and I am rooting for what you see. I am simply reflecting on what I see in my small world. I think the biggest problem may be the NFL turning fans off but maybe I am way off base. I think with the increasing ease and availability to gamble on nearly anything I am not sure dynasty leagues and even season long leagues will continue to grow at the rate of years past. Again, I hope I am wrong as I really enjoy the hobby. But I also know that I have been super fortunate to be in the same league with the mainly the same friends for several decades which plays a big role in my enjoyment. Not to date myself but we used to call in our lineups on some guys answering machine in the beginning. My first year I drafted Steve McNair third overall in his rookie year...a bit of laughs were heard on that one. 

 
King of the Jungle said:
You would certainly know more than I do...and I am rooting for what you see. I am simply reflecting on what I see in my small world. I think the biggest problem may be the NFL turning fans off but maybe I am way off base. I think with the increasing ease and availability to gamble on nearly anything I am not sure dynasty leagues and even season long leagues will continue to grow at the rate of years past. Again, I hope I am wrong as I really enjoy the hobby. But I also know that I have been super fortunate to be in the same league with the mainly the same friends for several decades which plays a big role in my enjoyment. Not to date myself but we used to call in our lineups on some guys answering machine in the beginning. My first year I drafted Steve McNair third overall in his rookie year...a bit of laughs were heard on that one. 
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All good, Buddy. I think we're both seeing accurately. There definitely is some less of the way you and I grew up playing. But it's not going away, it's just adapting. And I'm super optimistic about it. 

 
For the last 10 years I’ve run a “league” at work - more accurately a contest - which is a hybrid of FF and survival pool.  You submit a standard lineup every week, you can use whoever you want, but only once for the entire season.  The lowest scores each week get eliminated, and the champion survives all 17 weeks

The draw is that it doesn’t involve the time commitment of a draft, waivers, trades, handcuffs, etc.  it’s a great change of pace, and quite strategic to decide how to manage studs and sleepers.

It seems to be quite popular too - In year 1, we started with 18 people (1 elimination per week).  The number of players has increased for 10 consecutive years, and this year we will have 55 people competing.  Not quite FBG contest levels but still  :)

 
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JoeSteeler said:
The only way I can watch a recorded game is if I am watching alone. Hard to beat the camaraderie , emotion, and excitement you get when watching  a live game at home with friends, and that is all enhanced by FF.

For me nothing beats deep dynasty with IDP,  redraft is ok if you know the other owners, and DFS is just ok. I played DFS for a couple years but only so much free time in a week and I would much rather speculate on stocks.
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This is the direction I'm going this year.  No vig and the tide always rises.

 
Joe Bryant said:
I think it's important to be self aware.

Super complicated Dynasty IDP leagues with tons of rules run by old dudes is definitely a different thing. The college kids aren't playing those. They're in a 10 Team league run on Sleeper with their buddies and smack talk discord chat with emojis. And it's cool. They think we're total dorks. And that's ok. It's just different ways to play Fantasy Football. 
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J, what are you doing to capture the college types as subscribers?  

My college age sons are constantly texting me on Sunday for WDIS information.  Any chance you could offer a college level subscription that gives you only the draft rankings, the weekly ww article, and weekly rankings for $5.  If you could get the hook in them, the guys tired of losing my upgrade down the road. 

 
DFS is not as fun to talk about on forums but it is very much alive and well. It's somewhat of a different crowd. Caters more to the gamblers with one day results. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
Thanks. I don't see that as a factor at all. Young people might have a shorter attention span, but they're not stopping group activities. I've been super encouraged at how many young people are in the space. Fantasy Football used to be a dorky old guy thing. Now every college kid you see is in two leagues. 
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One of my son's friends was asking around to their group of friends about starting a league. They're 9. (Obviously if this got off the ground there would be a lot of parent involvement.) My son was not interested because he's not in to football, but he said he might be interested if they wanted to do fantasy baseball. 

 
King of the Jungle said:
In my amateur eyes FF is in trouble. As someone mentioned, the majority of younger generations (that I see anyway) don’t sit and watch games. The interest is just not there IMO. I still love it and play in one redraft and one dynasty. Mostly the same owners over the last 20 or so years. Dynasty is by far my favorite as I enjoy the all-season aspect and future strategy that is involved. However I believe I am a dying breed. And if the NFL begrudgingly continues its ways (greed....more games...terrible stances...slowed pace...) it will continue to lose fans. I would say about five years ago I started enjoying college football 10x more than the NFL and that continues. You can feel the energy with college football which the NFL has vacuumed out of there game. I hang with FF because I love football and have been lucky enough to be in leagues with the same friends (only a couple changes) for around 20 years. If those leagues for some reason fade I would absolutely be done.
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This seems to be more about the death of the NFL, not the death of FF.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
This seems to be more about the death of the NFL, not the death of FF.
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And it seems quite inaccurate in that regard, the number of people who complain about the NFL online may be increasing in certain spheres, but haven’t the actual viewership numbers only been increasing, generally? We’re talking about a sport where the 2nd night of the draft can draw more viewers than a playoff game in other sports. 
 

Less kids playing football is probably where the long term concern for the sport should lie. But plenty of people are watching. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Yep, I love when I hear some of my students talking about their leagues. It's typically really smart kids who take all kinds of honors classes funny enough. Also, cracks me up because as smart as they are, they have a lot to learn about fantasy. I will toss them some tips from time to time. 
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I’ve had similar experiences with my students. It does seem to be the more involved ones that I hear talking about their leagues. I don’t know for sure about format but it seems to me they’re mostly playing redraft. 

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
Less kids playing football is probably where the long term concern for the sport should lie. But plenty of people are watching. 
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This will have an impact but I’m not sure how much. Given those trends, HS and college football will be played by a greater proportion of kids from disadvantaged backgrounds whose parents may not be aware of the dangers or may not care, or whose outlook is more likely to be “this is the only major opportunity I’ll ever get in life.”

But the NFL is already made up of a very large proportion of people like this.

 
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I think for a lot of folks (and definitely the companies involved), DFS is/was a stopgap or gateway to straight up sports betting.

With 18 states now having legal sports betting up and running and 4 more having just legalized it, I’m sure it’s drawing folks from DFS to betting online. Why compete against a whole bunch of people and maybe never win when you can bet against just the house and have almost a coin flip a lot of the time. Sure you’re going to lose money overall both ways statistically, but at least with sports betting you feel like a winner sometimes.

 
BassNBrew said:
Obviously you have the best read of anyone here.  Do you see the lack of activity in the DFS forum as an indication that Daily is falling off?  

Also, when the next big change occurs, will you be adding a third leg to the FBG platform to capture those wagering and playing props?  I can see it now...Sigmund Bloom's 5 star lock of the week and it's free.  11-1 on the season against the spread, Bloom is the hottest prognosticator int he industry.  Biggest game of the year.  We've got inside information that you'll want to hear.  Subscribe to Footballguys for this guaranteed winner.

Obviously exaggerating there, but I'm sure you've had thoughts about this opportunity that's right around the corner.
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Forums are an odd thing. Momentum is a huge factor. The "nothing draws a crowd like a crowd" type thing. So I don't read too much at all into our DFS forums being quiet. We have a ton of subscribers that move up to the All Pro subscription to get the DFS content. We've never been down with the cheesy "lock of the week" type stuff for DFS so I don't see any reason we'd do a 180 and start promoting like that for sportsbook.

 
DAG said:
I’ve had similar experiences with my students. It does seem to be the more involved ones that I hear talking about their leagues. I don’t know for sure about format but it seems to me they’re mostly playing redraft. 
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Yeah I’ve only ever heard redraft talk. Basic ESPN leagues usually.

 
BassNBrew said:
J, what are you doing to capture the college types as subscribers?  

My college age sons are constantly texting me on Sunday for WDIS information.  Any chance you could offer a college level subscription that gives you only the draft rankings, the weekly ww article, and weekly rankings for $5.  If you could get the hook in them, the guys tired of losing my upgrade down the road. 
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Not enough. But that's changing. It'll be more a thing of "going where they are". The beauty is that's easy to do without changing what we're currently doing. I get encouraged as I've done a terrible job in the past of marketing to a younger audience. But the upside is we're kind of like the team that's thrown 3 interceptions in the first half and still leading by a field goal. Tons of room for improvement. 

 
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