Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Really? I hadn’t noticedYes, but not your MOST important. But, yes you’ve made it clear in multiple forums that you have a lot of guys hurt..
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HC Mike McCarthy, DAL (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ministry of Pain
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Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
Some teams do that kind of thing on purpose since unused cap space can be rolled into the next year. Since this is New England, I am certain they are doing this on purpose.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Yep. It’s a 20-year list. Hard to argue with what New England has done on most dimensions. They are terrible at drafting and developing WRs, for what it’s worth.
It’s tough to see what Dallas has been great at, other than making money for Jerry. That could be Cowboy-hater bias by me, but at a glance they seem mediocre.
But.....they’ve hit on two pretty good non-1st round QBs in Romo and Dak. Romo was an UDFA. Dak was a 4th round pick. They also built a generationally good O-line that lasted for many years. Lastly, they appeared to take most personnel decision making away from Jerry — avoiding mistakes like Johnny Manziel. Jerry is terrible at personnel, so that was a good decision.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
These things should translate into dominant teams. That didn't happen in the Cowboys' case. The question is why. Bad coaching? Poor talent evaluation elsewhere on the roster?
doeseatplace
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
That’s why I listed them as average. They’ve done a couple things really well, but have been mediocre at many other aspects of running a franchise.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Much like raising kids, I try hard to ignore the nit picky bad stuff and focus on highlighting and praising the good stuff. I’d love to think that works in life generally. Maybe even on this board!Deamon said:
Now.....back to how McCarthy is a train wreck of a coach (and always has been) who works for a mediocre franchise......
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STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I posted this in the cowboys thread but it applies here. Essentially they stopped doing their good work of drafting OL/DL/Def (Frederick,Martin, La’el Collins, D.Larwrence, Vander Esh) and went back to skill players (Zeke, Cooper, Pollard, Lamb)
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DJackson10
Footballguy
5 I want the next 10 yrs of him at coach. I'm surprised Aaron Rodgers didn't go streaking in the streets in Green Bay the day it was announced McCarthy was fired
DJackson10
Footballguy
I agree he may not be let go this year unless something happens between he and Jerry where he has no other option but to fire him. Jerry has plenty excuses to defend this from Loosing Dak, Covid, no offseason with a new coach etc. This continues into next year he's the first coach IMHO pink slipped
DJackson10
Footballguy
Over the last 25 yrs overhyped and underwhelming. Every few seasons they get a great offense only to choke when it matters. Good QB play has hid a lot of Dallas issues the past few yrs and having Zeke helps too. I think John Harbaugh said it best when he was asked why the Eagles since 2000 under Andy have had more success then Dal. Simple reason Jeffrey Lurie and the Eagles are about high character WE PLAYERS. DALLAS is all about JURRAH ALL THE TIME and it's built to grab the best talent and stars with Me FIRST attitudes and then build around them. Dallas today is the opposite of how you want to build your team these days in the NFL. They aren't the laughing stock of the NFL like the Jets and some others but if it weren't for those teams Dal would be in the top 3 of bad organizations.Joe Bryant said:
DJackson10
Footballguy
Not sure how you put Dal above Philly considering the Eagles overall success compared to Dal. The Eagles won a SB they had no business winning with a backup vs the Evil Empire. Dal hasn't made an NFC Title game since 95 nor won a road playoff game since 91. Eagles have won Several division titles over 5 NFC Titles went to 2 SBs and won 1 of those SBs in that time period. Last year the Eagles made the playoffs with over half the Injuries Dal has right now. Washington is last in any category. It's also hard considering the last decade or so keeping the Giants on top as they haven't done much since their last SB win.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Grocery baggers are hard working people who deserve better then thatAgree completely. Wentz willed the Eagles to within a few points of a victory against vaunted Pittsburgh and Baltimore while playing with an offense composed primarily of backups, projects, grocery baggers and DC that can’t coach himself out of a paper bag.
Zeke on the other hand
I-ROK
Footballguy
The Giants won a SB they had no business winning against the undefeated evil empire. Then they went back to win a second. And did so with one of the most uninspiring QBs of the last 20 years. Not to mention a raging RBF. Using your own logic as to why PHI is ahead of DAL, NYG should be ahead of PHI
I don’t expect you to understand anything other than PHI as #1 in that division over the last 20 years. you have obvious thick bias, especially when it comes to every philly fans favorite team to talk about- Dallas
Dallas is ahead of PHI largely due to their overall individual successes. They took UDFA and a 4th round QB and made them both into pro bowl QBs. Their success at RB is envious. Their OLs have been one of the best. PHI has had a slew of bad QB decisions and happened to find one who could catch lightning in a bottle for 4 weeks and hasn’t done anything since. PHI can’t draft. They also tried to stack the deck with their “dream team” defense and failed at that. They can’t draft WR and can’t even tab good ones in FA. If it weren’t for Sanders they’d be a few failed years away from rivaling Washington. And I’d say the bell cow jury is still out on him yet.
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DJackson10
Footballguy
The Giants only got to make a playoff appearance because of that defense. Also Eli is a way better QB then Nick Foles and finally David Tyre made a catch 9 out of 10 times it's never made. My overall point however was PHI has more playoff success since 95 then Dal has had so I do not get why you'd throw Dal over them. Also judging by overall consistency the Eagles since the Giants SB victory Giants have had way better success. If we are going by consistency the Eagles have been far more consistent. I'd still put the Giants ahead do to 2 SB wins compared to the Eagles 1 but its closer then you think.
51-77 and 1 playoff loss (Giants since 2011)
76-59 and 4-3 in the playoffs SB Win (Eagles since 2011)
I-ROK
Footballguy
If we want to talk about which franchise has done the most with the least, then sure I’d still put NY 1 and then I’d move Phi to 2. Maybe even Washington at 3. It’s very disappointing how little playoff success Dallas has had with the talent they’ve had, however I don’t think that’s a fair way to look at it. Playoff wins can be thanks to the drop of a ball (or an improbable clutch catch as you criticized in NYs success). The question was where would one rank Dallas as a franchise. I interpreted that as how well the franchise is run by the GM. The GM drafts/signs/trades for the players. The players play. Dallas has had GREAT players in the last 20 years. IMO, easily the best in the division. Philly not so much. They’ve been pretty pathetic in all of those GM categories. When we factor in success I’d say that’s why I have NY ahead of Dallas.
Dallas has put the best teams on the field season after season but they’ve largely under performed or just didn’t catch breaks.
NY has put okay teams but really good defenses and excellent coaching. That resulted in the most success in that division in the last 20 years if we are talking Super Bowls
Phi has put a pretty bad product on the field year after year, made very bad decisions with regards to players. Somehow they managed to win a super bowl which kept them from being heavily debated with Washington as the bottom dweller
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Thanks.
Among NFL organizations, what number do you rank Dallas among the 32 teams?
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
I disagree with your entire premise. PHI has done more with less. DAL has done less with more. IMO that makes PHI the superior organization.I-ROK said:
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Philadelphia fell ### backwards into the only Super Bowl victory in the history of their franchise
Stop it
DJackson10
Footballguy
Joe can't really give an exact number they aren't #32 but I would say in the 20-25 range of teams. I could maybe go more in depth from how the team is built, players developed, coaching, ownership philanthropy, etc etc. If I wanted to In more timeJoe Bryant said:
I-ROK
Footballguy
Right. Their biggest sympathizer even admitted that they had no business winning that Super Bowl. That doesn’t mean that they are a more superior franchise; it means they got very lucky at the right time.Philadelphia fell ### backwards into the only Super Bowl victory in the history of their franchise
Stop it
As I said above, if we are talking about who has done more with less then I would agree, Philly is ranked higher than Dallas, but that doesn’t mean they are overall better run at all IMO. Dallas has drafted/traded for/developed far superior talent than Philly. Yes, they’ve massively under achieved, but that doesn’t mean they were run worse than Philly. Idk why I’ve interjected myself into this discussion. I should know better when it comes to philly fans
DJackson10
Footballguy
I disagree with a lot of this. Football is a team sport it's not like NBA where having some superstars guarantees you title. I go back to Jim Harbaugh's response when he was asked "What is the difference of PHI being more successful since Andy Reid took over till now with Doug over what has Dal accomplished or lack there of in same time frame?"
To paraphrase Harbaugh he said "Philly is built on players who are about team and family. A culture is built with a system in mind and getting the right players to fit that system on and off the field. Dal's system is having star players no matter the character issues and building around said star power. "
What does he mean by this? Essentially Dal just took players with big names attached to them and threw them out there and said win us some games we'll worry about the other pieces without looking at off the field issues and other issues. Coaching has been questionable at best. yes at times we've complained about Andys coaching but it was never anywhere close to as bad as Dal. Philly may not have had the talented players Dal did but they did more with less. Ownership Wise Lurie stays out of the spotlight and the biggest complaint among media and fans is he's not accessible as publicly as some like. Meanwhile in Dal is all about Jurrah all the time. He can't get out of the spotlight. His coaching hires have been questionable. A lot of YES MEN who were working above their pay grades besides the Parcell years. When it came down to winning that one big game to get to the post season yearly Dal always faltered. Just because they had big names doesn't mean they should go far. It's a team sport more then any other sport and you get too many ME ME ME guys in one locker room and it's gonna blow
I really disagree with the bolded. The Eagles have made some bad decisions on personal but it's no where near the decisions Washington has made. Dal has made some terrible decisions too. They kept Jason Garret around far too long. They've developed a few top notch players but were never able to keep them on the team for too long or they were injury prone ala Sean Lee. Dal didn't catch breaks? There's been yrs of them having to play the Eagles or someone with a win and in scenario and they get completely blown out. Not sure what breaks they didn't catch?
Giants Excellent coaching? Coughlin is an above avg Coach at best. If it wasn't for the likes of Jay Grudden, Chip Kelly, Adam Gase of the league the last few coaches since outside of Spags have been laughable. You are seriously overrating the Giants by a ton here.
I-ROK
Footballguy
DJackson10
Footballguy
And without Tyre's catch that would probably never happen if he tried it 500 times NYG has 1 SB. I can play this game all day with you.
By your logic Philly has done more with less with way more injuries. Dal for yrs didn't have the number of injuries the Eagles have had. Yeah no one thought with Wentz hurt they'd win the SB but they did. Heck after watching Foles end the Regular season most of us on here were worried about the playoffs. Honestly I think a ton of people overrated Minny that year and didn't take into an account Case Keenum was nothing more then a 1 season wonder who's luck was about to run out.
DJackson10
Footballguy
You should probably read it since we are debating here or do you realize how bad your argument is looking right now contradicting yourself? You clearly are overrating the Giants and under crediting PHI while also overrating Dal a ton.
This statement alone is laughable at best. Bad product on the field year after year? Are we talking since 2011 or since Dal last SB because up until Andy got here and those Chip yrs they have put a very competitive product on the field.
Giants record with Coughling
Reg 102 90 0 .531 Playoffs 8-3 .727. 2 SBs 2 NFC Champion games 2 SB
Eagles under Andy Reid
Reg season 130-93-1 .583 Playoffs 10-9 .526 0 SBs 5 NFC Champion Games 1 SB APP
Yeah Coughlin has the playoff success but that was accomplished his 8 wins in the 2 seasons they won the SB. The rest was 1 and done. The Eagles meanwhile consistently made the playoffs under Andy and yes they didn't win a SB but 5 NFC Champion game appearances and 1 SB App in his 13 yrs here? Your statement of a poor product year after year just sounds ridiculous right there.
The Eagles the last 2 years at least have an injury excuse of not doing better too Dal with the players they had over the years have very little to excuse the lack of success other then poor GM of getting the right players to play as a team, coaching, Ownership interference, numerous off field incidents etc.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Someone who’s GM is paying Jackson and Alshon the money that he is should not be arguing about GMs lol
I-ROK
Footballguy
Didn’t read past this. You’re the one saying we shouldn’t give credit to the Giants for a Super Bowl won due to an improbable catch being a major reason for one of their Super Bowls, but you want to give credit to Philly for going on an improbable playoff run and winning a super bowl.
hint: it can’t be both
I-ROK
Footballguy
And Wentz. That was a horrible contract to sign him to at the time and even worse now
Deamon
Footballguy
That was actually a really good contract to sign him to at the time. No one was bashing it at the time, and it got done fairly early before the price went up. He's at 32k/year until 2025. By 2023/2024, once all these qb's sign extensions, he will be on of the cheapest starting QB in the NFL that isn't on a rookie deal.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I'm done with this guy he clearly has some vendetta against the Eagles. Saying they aren't successful and haven't put a good product on the team in yrs and if it weren't for Washington he'd ran them Dead last?
I-ROK
Footballguy
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I would like an opportunity to answer this question because I do not hate the Dallas Cowboys. They really haven't been competitive outside of their division in the last 20 years have they? Not in terms of the Playoffs, they haven't sniffed an NFCC for a while now.Joe Bryant said:
There are many things they do right in terms of keeping their players relatively happy and the way they treat the fans and employees but that said I don't think Jerry Jones should be involved in making decisions beyond writing checks and selling the brand of the Dallas Cowboys and the NFL Shield which he does brilliantly.
They will always be limited in the way the Oakland Raiders were towards the end under AL Davis, men of that stature get set in their ways.
Dallas is Bottom Half for sure in terms of what you gotta to do to produce wins on the field. Stephen Jones is better than his father but Jerry just has too much influence on what happens on Sundays. I've never heard of an owner that hires a coach while having a sleepover with him, it has to be Jerry's way and that limits how far Dallas can go. It wasn't enough for JJ in the early 90s to win Super Bowls, he wanted more credit than he felt he received. The man has never changed and never will. That's what makes him great but also has Dallas in a stranglehold.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
With him, if you say ANYTHING but good things about the Eagles, you’re trolling, he’s going to put you on ignore , you have a vendetta etcI-ROK said:
its something else
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
21st out of 32
And I'm talking about the last decade plus perhaps most of the 2000s.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
22-3 trailing at Halftime vs the WFT...still 30 Minutes for him to make some major adjustments at Halftime and lead the Dallas Cowboys into victory.
Skipdog77
Footballguy
I'm going to have to go with 33rd out of 32. They are an organizational mess, have been for 25 years, and will remain so until Jerry decides to change his modus operandi.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
25-3 Loss today
PHI 2-4-1
WFT 2-5
Dallas 2-5
NYGiants 1-6
They are right in the thick of the playoff race.
PHI 2-4-1
WFT 2-5
Dallas 2-5
NYGiants 1-6
They are right in the thick of the playoff race.
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
Worst team in football right now?
wgoldsph
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
They can’t play defense or block anyone. Dak made up for some of that but their backups can’t. That puts them close to but maybe not actually in Jets territory.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Obviously they're really bad right now, but if you were selecting players from each roster, you'd probably select 15 cowboys before you got to your 3rd jet. (And that's just counting guys that are healthy)
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
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