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FBG Election Poll: Mid-September version (1 Viewer)

Is there anything that could happen in the next 7 weeks to change the way you answered the first que

  • Yes

    Votes: 33 19.3%
  • No

    Votes: 138 80.7%

  • Total voters
    171
Biden (first Democratic candidate I will ever vote for as POTUS)

Second question...really a maybe, but I said no.  I mean...Im sure there are some unforeseen things that would give me pause...but as bad as I believe Trump to be, it would be hard to think of what that is.

 
sitting out. Trump is the President America deserves and i wont stem the tide. Dems are just as corruporate, Libertarianism is an idiotic horse-left-the-barn-75-years-ago pollyanna concept and the Green New Deal is soooo too-late i cant support anyone who doesnt realize that

 
sitting out. Trump is the President America deserves and i wont stem the tide. Dems are just as corruporate, Libertarianism is an idiotic horse-left-the-barn-75-years-ago pollyanna concept and the Green New Deal is soooo too-late i cant support anyone who doesnt realize that
A lot of good points here.  I don't see Biden as anything close to Trump with regard to "corruporate", and therefore that's where my vote will go, but agree that America has the president it deserves, and it's not a good one.  

 
sitting out. Trump is the President America deserves and i wont stem the tide. Dems are just as corruporate, Libertarianism is an idiotic horse-left-the-barn-75-years-ago pollyanna concept and the Green New Deal is soooo too-late i cant support anyone who doesnt realize that
No lesser of four evils?

 
No lesser of four evils?
i feel about my country as i would a daughter with a drug problem. i've given her the very best, held her to account when she began down wayward paths, listened to all the claims, excuses, pleas and screams, shown her proper love & care. i see no change in outlook and behavior so will support her no longer. rehab or dont talk to me, baby

A better question:  do the children deserve him?
Our current president is not the problem, merely the massive whitehead of an epidermal volcano we all have allowed to arise amid the American forehead with our willful oblivion, foolish practices and poor hygiene. Pop it, you still got acne -

 
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Voting Trump because, like 2016, he's the better choice of two evils.  Especially with the successes he's had (other than putting his foot in his mouth).

The path that a Harris/Biden ticket would put us on (Socialism) would be a point of no return.  Also, the fact that that DNC is deceiving everyone into thinking Biden will be President is plain as day.  He's only being used for his name recognition.  It's elder-abuse at this point.  Dude is stepping down within 6 months as part of the plan.  This is all planned for Harris to take over the POTUS via back door deception and so the Democrats can say "FIRSTIES!" (because looks are always more important than substance).  It won't work and would be illegitimate, IMO.  Harris herself has let this slip a couple times by calling a win by them as "The Harris Administration".

Trump ain't the only one who lies, but he's better for this country than Harris/Biden put together.

 
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Pass

Im done with crappy candidates. The “lesser of two evils” nonsense 

When can we have a candidate or God forbid 2 candidates that aren’t evil?

meh

 
Neither--I criticize Dems more than Trump here because my criticisms of Trump are ones everyone has beaten to death (rightfully so mostly) but I can't put into words how much I despise this man for what he has done to my party, contributed to the death of the center and right in America by alienating growing demographics, and accelerating our push to becoming Venezuela while giving rise to Fidel Castro/AOC/Omar types intent on having my head roll off a guillotine and stripping away what I and my family have worked a lifetime to earn--the kind o f Bolsheviks (Bernie Sanders) who become millionaires through nothing but being politicians (no real job) for 40 years yet point the finger at people with 80 hour workweeks and 12 years of education--telling them they make too much money

All kept under control by establishment DNC until Trump unleashed the rapidly growing fury of those who can't do math or read an article without getting triggered

As for Biden, he pretty much lost my vote when he called Mitt Romney a slaver. A man that says anyone who disagrees with him wants to enslave black people is not anyone who can heal a political divide--he is a grifter and and a divider for political means just not to the extent of Trump

This was confirmed by the Kamala Harris pick--a woman who has no substantive legislative or career achievements but corruptly putting nonviolent offenders in jail and.the "identity" of being black (when it suits her), Indian (when it suits her) and woman. That was her whole presidential campaign--no policy, no change, no support but a DNC establishment who wets themselves at the thought of a black woman President but realizes she is unelectable

Biden is not evil just as George W Bush was not evil. His handlers however are evil just as Bush's were, and he is stupid as Bush was stupid with the added sprinkle of mental decline and unlikelihood of making alive it through 4 years.

So he will push forward government healthcare for illegals, decriminalizing unauthorized border crossings, possibly reparations and whatever else his handlers want until he either dies or refuses on say gun confiscation by executive action at which point VP Kamala will coalesce the cabinet and 25th Amendment him to take matters into her own hands

I wish Mitt Romney won in 2012----I guess that means I support slavery according to Joe Biden

Just will vote down ballot red, write in someone and leave

 
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Biden is not evil just as George W Bush was not evil. His handlers however are evil just as Bush's were, and he is stupid as Bush was stupid with the added sprinkle of mental decline and unlikelihood of making alive it through 4 years.

So he will push forward government healthcare for illegals, decriminalizing unauthorized border crossings, possibly reparations and whatever else his handlers want until he either dies or refuses on say gun confiscation by affirmative action at which point VP Kamala will coalesce the cabinet and 25th Amendment him to take matters into her own hands
I understand you think progressive policies are misguided, but I'm struggling to see how reparations or healthcare for undocumented immigrants can be described as "evil."  

 
Neither--I criticize Dems more than Trump here because my criticisms of Trump are ones everyone has beaten to death (rightfully so mostly) but I can't put into words how much I despise this man for what he has done to my party, contributed to the death of the center and right in America by alienating growing demographics, and accelerating our push to becoming Venezuela while giving rise to Fidel Castro/AOC/Omar types intent on having my head roll off a guillotine and stripping away what I and my family have worked a lifetime to earn--the kind o f Bolsheviks (Bernie Sanders) who become millionaires through nothing but being politicians (no real job) for 40 years yet point the finger at people with 80 hour workweeks and 12 years of education--telling them they make too much money

All kept under control by establishment DNC until Trump unleashed the rapidly growing fury of those who can't do math or read an article without getting triggered

As for Biden, he pretty much lost my vote when he called Mitt Romney a slaver. A man that says anyone who disagrees with him wants to enslave black people is not anyone who can heal a political divide--he is a grifter and and a divider for political means just not to the extent of Trump

This was confirmed by the Kamala Harris pick--a woman who has no substantive legislative or career achievements but corruptly putting nonviolent offenders in jail and.the "identity" of being black (when it suits her), Indian (when it suits her) and woman. That was her whole presidential campaign--no policy, no change, no support but a DNC establishment who wets themselves at the thought of a black woman President but realizes she is unelectable

Biden is not evil just as George W Bush was not evil. His handlers however are evil just as Bush's were, and he is stupid as Bush was stupid with the added sprinkle of mental decline and unlikelihood of making alive it through 4 years.

So he will push forward government healthcare for illegals, decriminalizing unauthorized border crossings, possibly reparations and whatever else his handlers want until he either dies or refuses on say gun confiscation by affirmative action at which point VP Kamala will coalesce the cabinet and 25th Amendment him to take matters into her own hands

I wish Mitt Romney won in 2012----I guess that means I support slavery according to Joe Biden

Just will vote down ballot red, write in someone and leave
I dug up the article in which you think Biden called Romney 'a slaver' which was in 2012. I'm assuming this is what you're referring to.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2012/08/biden-explains-chains-remark-was-a-metaphor.html

This is the reason that Biden has 'lost your vote'?

 
I understand you think progressive policies are misguided, but I'm struggling to see how reparations or healthcare for undocumented immigrants can be described as "evil."  
I believe healthcare for illegals when you spit in the faces of legal immigrants who accomplish the American Dream, deem them privileged evil who "didn't build that" (in Obama's words) favor state-sponsored racial discrimination against their kids is more than just a little misguided. "Evil" was perhaps too harsh. I so not believe anyone supporting Bernie/AOC is evil. They have many legitimate concerns on healthcare, student loans and other issues that deserve to be addressed (wish the GOP was propositioning answers to this because the free market absolutely has them). I just see the tendency to blame everybody else and look to the government for answers envy that comes with it reflects a kind of decay in American culture.

I should also clarify why I say "progressive" or "leftist" rather than liberal. Honestly in most way I am a liberal--culturally and philosophically--more than I am a conservative. The original meaning of the word---prioritizing economic freedom, equal opportunity and strong civil liberties under a rule of law. Pretty much no Democratic politician represents this--at least none who could ever get a leadership role or Presidential nomination. It's admittedly on the down low in the Republican Party as well but that's a different conversation

In accordance with liberalism's contrary position to restrictionism and Joe Arpaio style authoritarianism I am pretty moderate on immigration--favoring reform, pathway to legalization (not sold on citizenship though--I think legal status could be a good compromise), guest worker programs, green cards, birthright citizenship, etc. But that's different from completely suspending the law and refusing to enforce it--it's different from rewarding breaking of the law while they are still officially undocumented/illegal/etc, from abolishing ICE and any other safeguard of national borders. That's a direct affront to the rule of law--another tenet of liberalism

As for reparations I see grouping people by their race and punishing the "wrong" (non black) ones--who have never owned a slave, most whose ancestors never did and many (like me) whose families came long after slavery was finished--with mass transfer payments to people who have never been slaves is not inherently evil to the point that anyone who supports it is evil but a very obvious reflection of a rather sinister, divisive and grievance based (yes I know the GOP has some of this as well) agenda.

That's not to say I don't favor police/criminal justice/prison reform, incentives for private investment in neglected communities and their businesses, education, etc (black or not) like Tim Scott and Cory Booker's "opportunity zones," public-private partnerships to fight poverty like Bush and Obama favored and even public investment in infrastructure in those neglected communities once (if) we regain some form of fiscal sanity--all stuff that can help fight the enduring effects of slavery and Jim Crow

But reparations? Tearing down founding fathers/Lincoln/Frederick Douglass/Teddy Roosevelt/Columbus/Andrew Jackson statues? (not talking about Confederates)

I see that as part of a very ill intentioned agenda---even if the many of the supporters mean well

I dug up the article in which you think Biden called Romney 'a slaver' which was in 2012. I'm assuming this is what you're referring to.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2012/08/biden-explains-chains-remark-was-a-metaphor.html

This is the reason that Biden has 'lost your vote'?
Yes it is a big part of it.

It reduced my respect for him tremendously and to a lesser extent for Obama.

That is racial dog whistling but to a different demographic than to whom Trump does, and it's still wrong, fear mongering and racially divisive

It's something I expect from grifters and race-baiters like Al Sharpton, Shaun King, Colin Kaepernick and Ta-Nehasi Coates--not from Joe Biden and Barack Obama

If Mitt Romney said Obama was "an Uncle keeping the plantation folk in line" he would have lost my vote as well and I really like Mitt Romney

 
"Evil" was perhaps too harsh. I so not believe anyone supporting Bernie/AOC is evil. They have many legitimate concerns on healthcare, student loans and other issues that deserve to be addressed

***

I see that as part of a very ill intentioned agenda---even if the many of the supporters mean well
Thanks.  Characterizing the other side's views as "evil" when it's obviously just a policy disagreement tends to hamper discussion.  Both sides do this for sure.  I definitely do it sometimes, but I try to restrain myself.  

Anyway, thanks for this post and others, it's  good to have someone with your views here that's willing to take the time to explain yourself.  

For what it's worth, I'm progressive but I don't think I support reparations if that just means redistributing cash from white people to black people.  I do think the government should be doing more to help people who are suffering hardship due to racist policies of the past, but I'd prefer that we fix that by spending more on things like education and healthcare and mental health services and childcare for poor people. 

 
Thanks.  Characterizing the other side's views as "evil" when it's obviously just a policy disagreement tends to hamper discussion.  Both sides do this for sure.  I definitely do it sometimes, but I try to restrain myself.  

Anyway, thanks for this post and others, it's  good to have someone with your views here that's willing to take the time to explain yourself.  

For what it's worth, I'm progressive but I don't think I support reparations if that just means redistributing cash from white people to black people.  I do think the government should be doing more to help people who are suffering hardship due to racist policies of the past, but I'd prefer that we fix that by spending more on things like education and healthcare and mental health services and childcare for poor people. 
Yeah my bad on using "evil" as a broad stroke

Applies to Trump as well

Him being morally corrupt doesn't mean his supporters are

I grew up as a brown skinned Hindu boy with two immigrant parents in a small conservative town that was in most ways way more welcoming the the cold (literally) northeastern university I went to. It wasn't perfect or free of prejudice; but if childhood friends of mine (pretty much all of whom support Trump and a third to half of whom did even in the 2016 primaries) are anti immigrant and racist, they must have put up a really convincing disguise for all these years

I didn't vote Trump in 2016 but basket of deplorables and some of the ways the media talked about Trump supporters almost made me

I wouldn't want to repeat that mentality and send it back the other way--even if I see less government and more a mix of public and private efforts as key to addressing the listed challenges

 
@KChusker

We can put this in the Biden thread if you wish...but just had a few things.

First...the health care for illegals...can you point me to where Biden is going to provide that for free?  His healthcare plan doesn't seem to address such a thing at all, neither does his immigration plan, neither does the DNC platform

https://joebiden.com/healthcare/

https://www.demconvention.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/2020-07-31-Democratic-Party-Platform-For-Distribution.pdf

The closest it gets is in talking about Dreamers.

https://joebiden.com/immigration/

Also in that immigration part...Im missing where he is just going to decriminalize illegal border crossings.  This sounds a lot like the oft repeated claim that Democrats are for open borders.  Once again, that is not what is being proposed whatsoever.  The other claim that is getting to a ridiculous point is this notion that its all Biden's "handlers"...where is this coming from?

I also think the Castro and Bolsheviks comparisons to Omar, AOC, and Sanders are a bit out there.  The slaver comment has been discussed...but once again we see the basket of deplorables com up and likely misinterpreted there (as dumb of a comment as it was from Hillary...she specifically stated who she thought such people were).

 
I am not voting, if I lived in a swing state i would consider it. Although, to be honest I do not know who I would vote for.

I have not thought about it much since I am not voting.

 
I am not voting, if I lived in a swing state i would consider it. Although, to be honest I do not know who I would vote for.

I have not thought about it much since I am not voting.
I’m the exact opposite. I’ve never voted before, in part because I disagreed fundamentally with the lesser of two evils strategy. Even though I don’t live in a swing state, I don’t want anything left to chance. My friend has never voted either, and feels the exact same way - in addition to overall turnout, it will be interesting to see the number of first-time voters this election.

IIRC, you live in TX. Although historically Republican, aren’t the voter demographics changing?

 
BladeRunner said:
The path that a Harris/Biden ticket would put us on (Socialism) would be a point of no return.
I am sure you wrote the same thing about Obama/Biden in terms of socialism. Did we become a socialist state under them with a point of no return? You often argue that the left has cried wolf too many times in terms of Trump and Russia and coronavirus and a host of other things. You should hold yourself to the same standard

 
I’m the exact opposite. I’ve never voted before, in part because I disagreed fundamentally with the lesser of two evils strategy. Even though I don’t live in a swing state, I don’t want anything left to chance. My friend has never voted either, and feels the exact same way - in addition to overall turnout, it will be interesting to see the number of first-time voters this election.

IIRC, you live in TX. Although historically Republican, aren’t the voter demographics changing?


Texas will go overwhelming for Trump. The only reason for me to vote would be for Sri Preston for house. He is at least preaching compromise and reaching across to the other side.

The problem is the politicians who makes the most difference in our day to day lives is not the president it is the local government. Do they spend money upgrading the correct infrastructure, are they corrupt and hand out overpriced contracts to friends companies, etc.  These people are incredibly difficult and time consuming to research.

 
Texas will go overwhelming for Trump. The only reason for me to vote would be for Sri Preston for house. He is at least preaching compromise and reaching across to the other side.

The problem is the politicians who makes the most difference in our day to day lives is not the president it is the local government. Do they spend money upgrading the correct infrastructure, are they corrupt and hand out overpriced contracts to friends companies, etc.  These people are incredibly difficult and time consuming to research.
Texas will likely go to Trump, but polls don't show it will be an overwhelming victory.  Texas is slowly turning blue.  

 
sitting out. Trump is the President America deserves and i wont stem the tide. Dems are just as corruporate, Libertarianism is an idiotic horse-left-the-barn-75-years-ago pollyanna concept and the Green New Deal is soooo too-late i cant support anyone who doesnt realize that
The bolded is false. There's no equivalency between the amount of corruption happening in Trump's Republican party with anything we've seen in the U.S. in recent history. It's disappointing to see you forward this notion as I consider you a pretty perceptive person - particularly as Trump's corruption is rampant and obvious. This election isn't a choice between two relatively similar evils. Trump is an obviously, extremely worse choice this time (as in 2016, but now with an additional 3.5 years of evidence).

 
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The bolded is false. There's no equivalency between the amount of corruption happening in Trump's Republican party with anything we've seen in the U.S. in recent history. It's disappointing to see you forward this notion as I consider you a pretty perceptive person - particularly as Trump's corruption is rampant and obvious. This election isn't a choice between two relatively similar evils. Trump is an obviously, extremely worse choice this time (as in 2016, but now with an additional 3.5 years of evidence).
I would say that at least 75% of our disagreement is semantic. Because i am not allowed to characterize the current President as he deserves and as i would like in this forum and since the barking is so loud around here, i occasionally have to go far afield to make a point heard.

There is no comparing Trump and Biden, personally. I will not explore that here. But it is my express opinion that the Democrat in this race is far more bought & sold than the Republican.

For whatever else one can say about Trump, he's working for himself. Whatever he feels like doing tomorrow, he can do and does. He dont gotta check w nobody, even Vladdy Daddy. The Democratic candidate has been owned longer than a priest's car and was installed by the party - when their nearly-comatose favorite candidate showed the slightest sign of life in SCarolina, the machine was able to buy off the rest of the moderates when it saw that Sanders & Warren would not coalition and they wedged their guy in in the realpolitik equivalent of a coup - to best exploit liberal fear of Trump 2.0 to maintain the status quo.

A Trump presidency could not even have come close to occurring in 2000. Long story short, it needed the GWBush administration selling the country to Wall Street and the Obama administration doing nothing to reverse that which made it possible. That's the only condition under which Trump's caprices could be supportable. As in my pimple analogy of a few posts back, the pure ridiculousness of the last few years has only been possible because of what preceded it and conditions which existed at this time of his occupancy.

Joe Biden will stop doing what Donald Trump is doing and is worth voting for on the basis of ending the current parade of inanities. He will change very little and reverse almost none of the damage done, however - his ol' boss's performance established that precedent following what history will consider a far more ruinous administration. If anything could be done by this point, the wing of the Democratic Party which could have was squelched, defeated. The $$ candidate heads the Democrat ticket and i wont support him. Leftists' will apparently have to wait for a Crash to have our try and the longer we have to wait, the more America will suffer.

 
I would say that at least 75% of our disagreement is semantic. Because i am not allowed to characterize the current President as he deserves and as i would like in this forum and since the barking is so loud around here, i occasionally have to go far afield to make a point heard.

There is no comparing Trump and Biden, personally. I will not explore that here. But it is my express opinion that the Democrat in this race is far more bought & sold than the Republican.

For whatever else one can say about Trump, he's working for himself. Whatever he feels like doing tomorrow, he can do and does. He dont gotta check w nobody, even Vladdy Daddy. The Democratic candidate has been owned longer than a priest's car and was installed by the party - when their nearly-comatose favorite candidate showed the slightest sign of life in SCarolina, the machine was able to buy off the rest of the moderates when it saw that Sanders & Warren would not coalition and they wedged their guy in in the realpolitik equivalent of a coup - to best exploit liberal fear of Trump 2.0 to maintain the status quo.

A Trump presidency could not even have come close to occurring in 2000. Long story short, it needed the GWBush administration selling the country to Wall Street and the Obama administration doing nothing to reverse that which made it possible. That's the only condition under which Trump's caprices could be supportable. As in my pimple analogy of a few posts back, the pure ridiculousness of the last few years has only been possible because of what preceded it and conditions which existed at this time of his occupancy.

Joe Biden will stop doing what Donald Trump is doing and is worth voting for on the basis of ending the current parade of inanities. He will change very little and reverse almost none of the damage done, however - his ol' boss's performance established that precedent following what history will consider a far more ruinous administration. If anything could be done by this point, the wing of the Democratic Party which could have was squelched, defeated. The $$ candidate heads the Democrat ticket and i wont support him. Leftists' will apparently have to wait for a Crash to have our try and the longer we have to wait, the more America will suffer.
I agree with all of this except I still come to the conclusion that, even with all those things considered, we still need to hold our nose and vote not Trump. As much as the brokers who've put Biden up for candidate aren't going away, neither are those who are putting Trump up for candidate. Letting Trump continue, even by not voting, doesn't send any kind of message right now, except for tacit acceptance of more rapidly going down the ####ter. I understand, you probably will stick with your convictions, but if there's the slightest doubt, though I understand your other sentiment, that the U.S. currently has the President it deserves, I can't agree with it as applied to the totality of the U.S. citizenry. We do deserve better than Trump, even though that better isn't any where near as betterer as we'd like.

 
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I agree with all of this except I still come to the conclusion that, even with all those things considered, we still need to hold our nose and vote not Trump. As much as the brokers who've put Biden up for candidate aren't going away, neither are those who are putting Trump up for candidate. Letting Trump continue, even by not voting, doesn't send any kind of message right now, except for tacit acceptance of more rapidly going down the ####ter. I understand, you probably will stick with your convictions, but if there's the slightest doubt, though I understand your other sentiment, that the U.S. currently has the President it deserves, I can't agree with it as applied to the totality of the U.S. citizenry. We do deserve better than Trump, even though that better isn't any where near as betterer as we'd like.
yo sabe. i am past the morality of it and you are not. i did not advocate against voting for Biden, merely stated i wouldnt. vote in good health & hope, my friend.

 
yo sabe. i am past the morality of it and you are not. i did not advocate against voting for Biden, merely stated i wouldnt. vote in good health & hope, my friend.
I suppose we deserve better has somewhat of a moral cast, but that wasn't really my intention. I was thinking more in terms of practical outcomes moreso than decency. Trump's accelerating the government for the highest bidder (and those bidders aren't always coming from inside the U.S.) trend more drastically than I've ever seen. Laws are being disregarded when convenient. And most of us are going to get bent over the table as a result in very real ways.

Let me put it this way. My kid deserves better than to live in a country where "President" Trump gets to direct the Federal government to unilaterally force sales of companies to Larry Ellison, with Larry Ellison "donating" millions of dollars to Trump's campaign - and all the tangibly bad things that result from such a "government."

 
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I suppose we deserve better has somewhat of a moral cast, but that wasn't really my intention. I was thinking more in terms of practical outcomes moreso than decency. Trump's accelerating the government for the highest bidder (and those bidders aren't always coming from inside the U.S.) trend more drastically than I've ever seen. Laws are being disregarded when convenient. And most of us are going to get bent over the table as a result in very real ways.
again, if i could freely expound upon the actions & character of our President, you would understand me better. i can say that the result of this election will not flatten any curve except perhaps COVID, i'm afraid

 
I am sure you wrote the same thing about Obama/Biden in terms of socialism. Did we become a socialist state under them with a point of no return? You often argue that the left has cried wolf too many times in terms of Trump and Russia and coronavirus and a host of other things. You should hold yourself to the same standard
We get closer every day as long as Democrats keep getting elected and the radicals increase in size in the Democrat party every election. 

You guys all have the same problem in here - you keep insisting that nothing is happening but ever year your party goes further and further left.  It's like you're purposefully ignoring what's happening and are unwilling to look any further than the current day you're in.  Open your eyes.

 
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We get closer every day as long as Democrats keep getting elected and the radicals increase in size in the Democrat party every election.

You guys all have the same problem in here - you keep insisting that nothing is happening but ever year your party goes further and further left.  It's like you're purposefully ignoring what's happening and are unwilling to look any further than the current day you're in.  Open your eyes.
Meh, if Bernie were elected and able enact all of his policies, your cries of leftism would begin to hold a little water. As it is, we’re much closer to right-flavored totalitarianism, and Joe Biden is a move to the middle.

 
Meh, if Bernie were elected and able enact all of his policies, your cries of leftism would begin to hold a little water. As it is, we’re much closer to right-flavored totalitarianism, and Joe Biden is a move to the middle.
Except that a little more than 4 years ago no one like "the freshman four" was in your ranks.  

Keep ignoring that obvious takeover of the Democrat party at your own risk.  You have your opinion - that's fine.  We're closer to Communism than we are to any other far-right ideology.

 
And that isn’t good enough?!?
No. 40,000 humans (1/3 of them children) die each day on this planet from the simple inability to sustain life. With eternal vigilence must we constantly get better at everything to stem that tide and instead we're regressing due to greed, xenophobia & willful oblivion and the American government leads the way. Unacceptable.

 
Except that a little more than 4 years ago no one like "the freshman four" was in your ranks.  

Keep ignoring that obvious takeover of the Democrat party at your own risk.  You have your opinion - that's fine.  We're closer to Communism than we are to any other far-right ideology.
In what ways are we approaching communism?

 
No. 40,000 humans (1/3 of them children) die each day on this planet from the simple inability to sustain life. With eternal vigilence must we constantly get better at everything to stem that tide and instead we're regressing due to greed, xenophobia & willful oblivion and the American government leads the way. Unacceptable.
By that standard, we should devote more resources, not less, to the management of infectious diseases like covid-19. I fail to see how implicitly condoning the way our leadership has managed the pandemic will do anything to stem that tide. The POTUS ain't exactly great at putting the brakes or greed, xenophobia or willful oblivion, either. While I certainly can appreciate a sprinkle of nihilism to reset our government, our current trajectory is nowhere near the right direction. Four years of Biden might not right the ship, but it won't sink it.

 
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Thanks for this thread. Poll results were right about what I thought they'd be.

I will say I was a tiny bit surprised at the Jorgensen and sitting out votes. 

 
Surprised in what way? Thought they’d be higher or lower?
I think I thought the Jorgenson / sitting out numbers would be lower. 

But maybe not. I mainly just thought the results here would be a landslide for Biden. I would have thought it would be in the 70-80% range and it is. 

 
Thanks for this thread. Poll results were right about what I thought they'd be.

I will say I was a tiny bit surprised at the Jorgensen and sitting out votes. 
As I've noted before, the poll results are meaningless when they aren't public.  I put a public poll up earlier today, that was removed for some reason I don't understand.  Four people voted in the poll prior to it being taken down.  One of the four votes was clearly an attempt at skewing the results.

 

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