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NFL and Covid Issues - Initially Asked in Shark Pool To Keep it 100% NFL


Joe Bryant

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22 minutes ago, Skipdog77 said:

There are 600k+ Americans who would like to throw the middle finger up at that statement, but you know...they can't. 

I'm not gonna get into a pissing match with you for the sake of the thread but how many of those are 20-30 year old world class athletes?!?

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1 hour ago, Tha Guru said:

NFL going HAM on a "pandemic" with a 99% survival rate.:doh:

Agreed. So embarrassing. This has been much ado about nothing since the beginning. Pathetic to see how organizations like the NFL still engage in fear mongering over the flu. 

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1 hour ago, IheartGuinness said:
2 hours ago, Tha Guru said:

NFL going HAM on a "pandemic" with a 99% survival rate.:doh:

Agreed. So embarrassing. This has been much ado about nothing since the beginning. Pathetic to see how organizations like the NFL still engage in fear mongering over the flu. 

Giving this take every benefit of the doubt, I think you're both missing the point.  There's no way the NFL can allow a Covid-positive player to play in a game. Even accepting the view this is a harmless flu-like sickness, that's not going to happen.  So if a team's entire offensive line is positive, that team can't play.  That's a huge risk to the NFL for financial reasons, totally apart from any real or perceived health risk.  They have billion dollar television and sponsorship deals at stake and they have to give those counterparties every bit of confidence they possibly can.  Each of those advertisers/sponsors/media outlets can take its business elsewhere. The NFL has decided that vaccinations will prevent or substantially eliminate positive tests, ensuring to the greatest extent possible that the games will be played.  I view it as a smart business decision under difficult circumstances. 

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1 hour ago, jobarules said:

Tons of players pissed about this on Twitter 

What a bunch of crybabies. If any player wants to retire over getting a vaccine, they won't be missed. Almost every career involves following the standards set by your employer, including being vaccinated in many(most?) cases. I know I've had multiple jobs where I had to get various shots before my employment started. 

Stefon Diggs put it best, "accountability=availability" guys refusing to be vaccinated are just selfish, end of story. If I were a GM, any player who isn't a top player(Hopkins is, Beasley isn't) at his position who refuses, is either traded or cut. No room for these silly distractions. 

I will agree the neither team gets paid in a forfeit is a little extreme, but its surely incentive to get everybody to do so, and it'll likely be effective, as most guys can't afford to miss too many checks. 

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4 minutes ago, travdogg said:

What a bunch of crybabies. If any player wants to retire over getting a vaccine, they won't be missed. Almost every career involves following the standards set by your employer, including being vaccinated in many(most?) cases. I know I've had multiple jobs where I had to get various shots before my employment started. 

Stefon Diggs put it best, "accountability=availability" guys refusing to be vaccinated are just selfish, end of story. If I were a GM, any player who isn't a top player(Hopkins is, Beasley isn't) at his position who refuses, is either traded or cut. No room for these silly distractions. 

I will agree the neither team gets paid in a forfeit is a little extreme, but its surely incentive to get everybody to do so, and it'll likely be effective, as most guys can't afford to miss too many checks. 

That's well and good for a league like the NFL. The players union is basically a formality. I don't see MLB ever accepting missing game checks or forfeiting games for positive tests. The union will just say "you can sit them but you're still paying them." 

That's why it's a bluff. Yes they could go this route and not pay players for a forfeited game but I don't expect the players to go along with it quietly. 

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3 hours ago, CletiusMaximus said:

From the NFL memo issued today - Vaccinated individuals who test positive and are asymptomatic can return to duty after two negative tests 24 hours apart. Unvaccinated individuals are subject to a mandatory 10-day isolation period.

 

S’wut i’m sayin

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2 hours ago, IheartGuinness said:

Agreed. So embarrassing. This has been much ado about nothing since the beginning. Pathetic to see how organizations like the NFL still engage in fear mongering over the flu. 

You know what bud, I'm an electrical engineer at an electrical utility. You know what people I work with would say to people on message boards and stupid youtube videos saying they don't believe in our electrical safety measures? Dumbest people on earth. Yet people listen to guys on youtube when it comes to medical advice. Just amazing.

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40 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

Giving this take every benefit of the doubt, I think you're both missing the point.  There's no way the NFL can allow a Covid-positive player to play in a game. Even accepting the view this is a harmless flu-like sickness, that's not going to happen.  So if a team's entire offensive line is positive, that team can't play.  That's a huge risk to the NFL for financial reasons, totally apart from any real or perceived health risk.  They have billion dollar television and sponsorship deals at stake and they have to give those counterparties every bit of confidence they possibly can.  Each of those advertisers/sponsors/media outlets can take its business elsewhere. The NFL has decided that vaccinations will prevent or substantially eliminate positive tests, ensuring to the greatest extent possible that the games will be played.  I view it as a smart business decision under difficult circumstances. 

This, and COVID isn’t a binary. 

it’s not “1% mortality rate”, (which it’s a disingenuous framing of the survivability regardless) it’s the high % of people who’ve had COVID experiencing long-term symptoms. 

Simply “surviving” COVID isn’t as good as not getting COVID & not spreading COVID 

 

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Also, it should be said that the misrepresentation of “1% mortality rate” (it’s closer to 3%) isn’t exactly the awesome argument people seem to think it is, because the contagion rate of this virus makes the overall death toll quite remarkable. 

Using a round number, 100,000,000 people catch COVID & even only 1% die, that’s a million dead people. And unfortunately that’s a fraction of the number of cases globally. 

I know that BS 1% number is a popular RW radio talking point, but maybe don’t make light of that perceptage like it’s nothing if you don’t want to come off like a complete sociopath. 

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1 hour ago, voiceofunreason said:

You know what bud, I'm an electrical engineer at an electrical utility. You know what people I work with would say to people on message boards and stupid youtube videos saying they don't believe in our electrical safety measures? Dumbest people on earth. Yet people listen to guys on youtube when it comes to medical advice. Just amazing.

:bye:

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44 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

Man, players are starting to snipe back and forth at each other on social media. Getting messy.

Summary of any good exchanges?

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28 minutes ago, eoMMan said:

Maybe teams should have their trainers mix the vaccine into the team's Gatorade jug? Kinda like the little 4c ice tea packets? Ya dig?

How about just replace every third Toradol injection with Moderna? That would take care of the entire league in two weeks tops.

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51 minutes ago, eoMMan said:

Summary of any good exchanges?

https://twitter.com/iam_jerryhughes/status/1418373908575793155?s=21

What makes this extra juicy is that Hughes’s teammate Beasley is one of the biggest antivax guys in the NFL and Hughes is getting after guys on other teams about not being vaccinated. Gotta think there’s some bad blood brewing in Buffalo.

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Taking away game checks if they don’t get played actually seems insane - like you are really going to take away the opposing team’s check? They had nothing to do with it! 
 

That said, anybody thinking the NFL wasn’t going to come down super hard on this is nuts. It’s their multi-billion dollar business, it’s their right to enforce this and if the players don’t like it too bad. And while guys like Hop can get away with not taking it, you better believe that 5th linebacker who is trying to make it on the punt coverage team better have it. Because they’ll replace him with the next guy in line who had the vaccine immediately. 

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5 hours ago, JetMaxx said:

Lawyers gonna have fun with that 🍿

Actually, the NFLPA has already come out and said that the policy was the same last year and basically that they are agreeing to it.

That could be an indication that the vast majority of players are on board and want to pressure their teammates to get vaccinated.

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As an NFL and Dolphin fan, it would not be satisfying to beat the Bills by forfeit. Miami was one of 2 teams with 85% vaccination rate a few days ago (along with NO). 

I'm wondering what happens to an unvaccinated player who gets COVID before game 1, let's say the Saturday before game 1. He wouldn't be eligible for the vaccine until 90 days later, per CDC guidelines. So, he'd still be treated like an unvaccinated player with mask rules, etc. Using the 90 day wait period, an unvaccinated play who gets COVID now... would he have to wait until October to get vaccinated?

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ESPN's Jeremy Fowler reports 16 NFL teams have reached a vaccination rate of 85 percent. 

Vaccination numbers continue trending upward about six weeks before the 2021 season kicks off. The NFL's COVID-19 protocols surely incentivized players to get the jab, as teams will likely be able to return to pre-COVID meetings and practices once they reach the 85 percent vaccination rate. The league on Thursday said teams that can't play due to a COVID-19 outbreak among vaccinated players could be forced to forfeit -- an announcement that drew the ire of many players, including DeAndre Hopkins. Any team that enters the 2021 season under the 85 percent threshold will be at a competitive disadvantage. 

 

SOURCE: Jeremy Fowler on Twitter 

Jul 23, 2021, 8:25 AM ET

 

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1 hour ago, SoBeDad said:

As an NFL and Dolphin fan, it would not be satisfying to beat the Bills by forfeit. Miami was one of 2 teams with 85% vaccination rate a few days ago (along with NO). 

I'm wondering what happens to an unvaccinated player who gets COVID before game 1, let's say the Saturday before game 1. He wouldn't be eligible for the vaccine until 90 days later, per CDC guidelines. So, he'd still be treated like an unvaccinated player with mask rules, etc. Using the 90 day wait period, an unvaccinated play who gets COVID now... would he have to wait until October to get vaccinated?

90 days only if you have received monoclonal antibody treatment 

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28 minutes ago, jobarules said:

90 days only if you have received monoclonal antibody treatment 

Thanks. The recommendation is to wait until the isolation period is over before getting the vaccine. How many days is that, and would that encourage NFL players to get the one-shot vaccines so they could be treated as fully vaccinated earlier?

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16 hours ago, GroveDiesel said:

The Vikings have fired coach Rick Dennison because he refused to get vaccinated.

Link

 

In terms of NFL wins and losses, which then dovetails into how it impacts fantasy, in the past, Bob LaMonte tried very hard for a long time to form an effective and functional union for coaches in the NFL.

Lower level coaches in the system are treated like cannon fodder.

While other coaches might agree or disagree on the vaccination issue, this can become a critical juncture where coaches will united and demand collective bargaining.

When you have more coaches making more money and have more benefits, then that changes the calibration in firing them. So some owners might keep a mediocre offensive coordinator or line coach because of bottom line cost issues versus in a different system would have fired them immediately.

The NFL needs fans in the stands to make the most money. They won't get them unless they can say "100 Percent Vaccinated" even  though that doesn't actually guarantee true safety ( You could be vaccinated and still get COVID19 in some fashion)  No one knows where the issue with the variants will go as well (i.e. needing a booster)   There is also the liability angle, if the NFL lets a coach without the shot to keep coaching and then people get COVID19 and lose their careers or die, where will that end up liability wise? You can sign all the waivers you want, something like this will operate very closely to strict liability as it will lean into a complicated public opinion situation.

The NFL will lose lots of fans over this.

OK, putting on my media optics hat, how would I handle it differently? Any coach who didn't want to be vaccinated would have his contracted honored by the NFL. They would be put into a special program where they would get guaranteed three year minimum contracts AFTER their team contract ended, and would work with player development and player mentoring, helping young players remotely on how to better handle preparation for an NFL career. It's a feel good story that sells. A coach and some player are interviewed. The player says he grew up without a father but this coach is like a surrogate dad to him, and cares about him and is teaching him good life skills, not just practical skills to survive the NFL. It also forestalls collective bargaining by the coaches overall. It defuses the large segment of fans who will leave over the issue.

Then rapidly expand the practice squad size. Announce there will be no fans in the stands for three years. Anyone who wants to keep their season tickets can do so at a reduced rate, which grants them a 10 minute meet and greet with a player on Zoom ( lottery system for the top players and most of the bulk goes to the extra practice squad guys), and then a dedicated online exclusive system for season ticket holders. They get to watch some practices. See some structured film sessions with coaches. Watch how a front office management position operates. Then imply NFL Red Zone as gratis into the package. Every franchise has 20 additional "practice squad" players on payroll but their real job besides light workouts and practice is pure fan engagement. Every year, the team sends loyal season ticket holders some kind of swag bag.

The NFL's greed philosophy is pretty dumb sometimes. Buying silence is always a good investment. This constant need to just run anyone over because they can is actually bad business.

Just take the financial hit upfront. If you let people back into the stadiums and a new variant runs wild and people start dying off, then you will lose fans for good. All it takes is one fan going to game and catching something and dying to turn the issue into a local political one. Wanting to be reelected, someone somewhere will shut the league down again after enough attrition. Three years announced sets an expectation, it mitigates how to structure the losses upfront and it gives the NFL time to keep working on a long term plan as well as let the pandemic run it's course.

It's evident at this point that the NFL league office is just a tone deaf internal echo chamber that has swallowed group think whole and will refuse to look at the practical implications of inciting your base of coaches and possibly half or more of your fanbase.

I wouldn't say this decision by the league is as stupid as getting married, but it's actually pretty close, which is a feat in itself.

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18 hours ago, GroveDiesel said:

The Vikings have fired coach Rick Dennison because he refused to get vaccinated.

Link

HUGE firing.  

Will have an impact as he was one of the best offensive line coaches in the league.  He also was the run game coordinator so it 'could' have an effect on RB Dalvin Cook.

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25 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

HUGE firing.  

Will have an impact as he was one of the best offensive line coaches in the league.  He also was the run game coordinator so it 'could' have an effect on RB Dalvin Cook.

At this late stage they’d likely be using the same rushing schemes with a coach below Dennison running it.

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On 7/23/2021 at 9:02 AM, SoBeDad said:

As an NFL and Dolphin fan, it would not be satisfying to beat the Bills by forfeit. Miami was one of 2 teams with 85% vaccination rate a few days ago (along with NO). 

I'm wondering what happens to an unvaccinated player who gets COVID before game 1, let's say the Saturday before game 1. He wouldn't be eligible for the vaccine until 90 days later, per CDC guidelines. So, he'd still be treated like an unvaccinated player with mask rules, etc. Using the 90 day wait period, an unvaccinated play who gets COVID now... would he have to wait until October to get vaccinated?

once he gets covid and develops natural anti-bodies for future immunity- why would he then change his stance and get vaccinated?

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7 minutes ago, Obie Wan said:

once he gets covid and develops natural anti-bodies for future immunity- why would he then change his stance and get vaccinated?

Possibly to avoid missing more games in the future, but that depends on how the NFL treats players with proven case of COVID-19 versus those were vaccinated. Does the NFL treat them differently? There have been lots of mild breakthrough cases among vaccinated, also among those who previously had COVID.

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1 hour ago, BigJim® said:

‘Tons’? Hit me with 10 names. I only saw Beasley/Hopkins.

Most players are smart enough to be quiet about it. It's easy to see how it goes on Twitter. At best, they're assumed to be stupid. 

Hopkins deleted his tweet.

Leonard Fournette deleted his tweet. https://www.fox13news.com/sports/bucs-player-leonard-fournette-reacts-to-nfls-covid-guidelines-vaccine-i-cant-do-it

Jalen Ramsey went out of his way to say no pressure from him for teammates to get vaccine https://twitter.com/jalenramsey/status/1418269201983098881?s=20

Dak Prescott isn't saying https://twitter.com/GehlkenNFL/status/1418659121688047616?s=20

My guess knowing human nature is lots of NFL players feel this way. 

I personally am vaccinated. But I think it's naive to think this is a small minority of players who are hesitant or won't get it. 

Again - let's keep this 100% NFL. 

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6 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Most players are smart enough to be quiet about it. It's easy to see how it goes on Twitter. At best, they're assumed to be stupid. 

Hopkins deleted his tweet.

Leonard Fournette deleted his tweet. https://www.fox13news.com/sports/bucs-player-leonard-fournette-reacts-to-nfls-covid-guidelines-vaccine-i-cant-do-it

Jalen Ramsey went out of his way to say no pressure from him for teammates to get vaccine https://twitter.com/jalenramsey/status/1418269201983098881?s=20

Dak Prescott isn't saying https://twitter.com/GehlkenNFL/status/1418659121688047616?s=20

My guess knowing human nature is lots of NFL players feel this way. 

I personally am vaccinated. But I think it's naive to think this is a small minority of players who are hesitant or won't get it. 

Again - let's keep this 100% NFL. 

My post is 100% NFL. The statement was tons of players and I was curious. I agree fully that most dissenters won’t say it, and haven’t 

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7 minutes ago, BigJim® said:

My post is 100% NFL. The statement was tons of players and I was curious. I agree fully that most dissenters won’t say it, and haven’t 

Didn't say you weren't on NFL. I'm saying I want the thread to continue to stay there. 

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I sincerely hope that teams continue to bring in medical professionals to help educate players to the safety of the vaccines, explaining how they work, that it’s not new technology & showing them the numbers that prove safety compared to the long-term health risks of catching COVID. 

They definitely leaned into the “stick” part as opposed to the carrot, but after last season’s postponed & rescheduled games, I completely understand why they did.  

It’s a difficult situation for the NFL and for the players, and I get that. But it is a business, and there’s no way they can repeat last year’s approach.

They should, in my opinion, implement more of a carrot approach. The incentive of protecting players & peripheral personal & not necessarily a punishment-based approach. 

it’ll be interesting to watch. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

They definitely leaned into the “stick” part as opposed to the carrot, but after last season’s postponed & rescheduled games, I completely understand why they did. 

JMHO, the carrot is very much part of the equation in that certain players will basically be able to go about life as normal, other than tests every 2 weeks. Would have previously said normal is not a carrot, but it sure feels like one in my life.

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4 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

HUGE firing.  

Will have an impact as he was one of the best offensive line coaches in the league.  He also was the run game coordinator so it 'could' have an effect on RB Dalvin Cook.

Dennison was nowhere near the best OL coach. His longevity in the NFL is 100% the product of being pals with Gary Kubiak. Getting rid of him is great news for Darrisaw/Davis and could lead to a breakout from Bradbury. Brian O'Neill is the only guy who has developed at all recently, and its possible he'd be a pro bowler with better coaching.

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The one overarching point that we hoped last year and was proved to us last year:

The league will do the right thing in getting the games played. It won't always be perfect, but they've shown more than enough to me that I trust them. 

They crushed last season. With many last year acting as if the league was a bunch of buffoons and would never get through it, they didn't just silence critics, they ran up the score on them.

I think years from now, the 2020 NFL Season is going to be a textbook case on how to manage crisis. 

 

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On 7/22/2021 at 3:22 PM, CletiusMaximus said:

I think there are really only two possibilities here - either the NFLPA agreed to this, which seems extremely likely, or the NFL is taking a huge risk. As I noted earlier, if the NFLPA agreed to it, the players have very limited legal recourse.  I think their only claim would have to be based on unfair labor practices, fraud, etc.  I disagree with the notion this is something that "slipped by" them.  Its possible, yes - but seems to me this was a decision they made together in the interests of protecting the golden goose.

 

Just an FYI for all - the NFLPA responded to the NFL Memo by noting the language of this year's guidelines re: forfeit et al is 100% verbatim the same policy of 2020. We're in a different environment with respect to having a vaccine available but when the owners flexed on the players last week, the union said "sure, same thing you said last year when no games were cancelled/forfeited." 

Edited by BobbyLayne
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12 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

They crushed last season. With many last year acting as if the league was a bunch of buffoons and would never get through it, they didn't just silence critics, they ran up the score on them.

I think years from now, the 2020 NFL Season is going to be a textbook case on how to manage crisis. 

 

I agree. I was deeply skeptical that they’d be able to get through the season, and they handled everything from rescheduling games to moving the 49ers to AZ when Santa Clara was overwhelmed with COVID cases. 

Incredible achievement. It wasn’t always pretty, but they got it done. 

That said, it seems pretty clear that they don’t want to repeat the chaos of last year. 
 

 

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Cole Beasley seems willing to go down with the ship to defend his stance.  I'd be very surprised at this point if he is on the Bills - or any team - week 1.  Feeling dumb to have several shares of him in best ball.

Cole Beasley  @Bease11

I get it. But I’m not sacrificing something I believe in for wins and money. I want to win as much as anybody. But I’m not gonna change who I am to accomplish that. There are a ton of players who are with me but can’t speak out because of their situation within the organization.

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3 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

I personally am vaccinated. But I think it's naive to think this is a small minority of players who are hesitant or won't get it. 

Again - let's keep this 100% NFL. 

has there not been reports that about 85% of players are vaccinated, w at least 1 dose?

almost certain I saw that number, and from a good source. but far too lazy to find where... 80-85 from what I recall.

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1 minute ago, Soulfly3 said:

has there not been reports that about 85% of players are vaccinated, w at least 1 dose?

almost certain I saw that number, and from a good source. but far too lazy to find where... 80-85 from what I recall.

About 80%. https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/number-nfl-players-vaccination-process-80-79018747

 

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  • Joe Bryant changed the title to NFL and Covid Issues - Initially Asked in Shark Pool To Keep it 100% NFL

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