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NFL and Covid Issues - Keep it 100% NFL


Joe Bryant

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My FF leagues treat COVID like injuries.  Injuries Suck and can affect team's differently.  That's life.  If you have players on a Monday (or Tuesday) game that may or many not happen, how is that materially different than having, say, Michael Thomas who is 50/50 on playing on Monday?  Either you take a chance he plays or find a WW flier who plays Monday you could toss in.

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I have not read anything all week that the NFL is switching to the Quidel test that's 15minute results. They are still using 24 hour tests. (Don't nitpick if they can get this in 18 or 20 hours please)

 

I think this is the biggest roadblock. The Titans week is really worth a read to learn about. Asymptomatic tests that were positive, symptomatic people that were negative, guys following protocol and getting sick, guys not following protocol and staying healthy. It has totally NOT been cut n dry simple.

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Just now, Bracie Smathers said:

Don't cancel, suspend games that cannot be played and let the other games play through.  Schedule make-up games after the regular season, if they still cannot be played THEN forfeiture is on the table.  NOT NOW having played only a quarter of the schedule where more games would be forfeited due to precedence or else it would create an unfair situation.   

Why have forfeits at all? If games can’t be played or rescheduled, just don’t play them. End of the season, playoff spots are determined based on winning percentage. IMO, awarding teams wins and losses after the league’s inability to come up with an effective COVID policy seems unfair on any number of levels.

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What we knew coming into the season was players with COVID would be out 2-3 weeks on the COVID list. We also knew games could be cancelled with multiple outbreaks. What we didn’t know is they’d start cancelling games for individual cases.

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Just now, Anarchy99 said:

Why have forfeits at all? If games can’t be played or rescheduled, just don’t play them. End of the season, playoff spots are determined based on winning percentage. IMO, awarding teams wins and losses after the league’s inability to come up with an effective COVID policy seems unfair on any number of levels.

If at the end of the season TEN has 8 games they couldn't play and the NFL has a two week window to get all games played prior to the playoffs then it is the 'best' possible way to deal with that sort of problem.  Right now TEN would have one of the highest winning percentages so if they don't play games and get rewarded for their winning percentage is that the 'best' solution for the rest of the league?

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2 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Don't cancel, suspend games that cannot be played and let the other games play through.  Schedule make-up games after the regular season, if they still cannot be played THEN forfeiture is on the table.  NOT NOW having played only a quarter of the schedule where more games would be forfeited due to precedence or else it would create an unfair situation.   

Tennessee has already burned their bye week, and is about to burn a second.  It's literally impossible to reschedule the Titans game and end the season on time (pushing that back affects the Superbowl and years of planning).

Denver is now being forced to lose their bye week, Steelers lost theirs last week.  Any more bumps in the road and they will be in the same boat, with zero positives.

Unless we talk about extending the season and pushing back the Superbowl, forfeits are inevitable.

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2 minutes ago, mike11162 said:

What we knew coming into the season was players with COVID would be out 2-3 weeks on the COVID list. We also knew games could be cancelled with multiple outbreaks. What we didn’t know is they’d start cancelling games for individual cases.

To be fair, they're multiple individual cases where they can't contain the spread. We've already had teams play games with people on the COVID-IR because the trace/isolation contained the spread. The Titans were thought to have contained the spread but just got another case.

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5 minutes ago, mike11162 said:

What we knew coming into the season was players with COVID would be out 2-3 weeks on the COVID list. We also knew games could be cancelled with multiple outbreaks. What we didn’t know is they’d start cancelling games for individual cases.

What games have been cancelled or affected by individual cases?

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1 hour ago, GroveDiesel said:

Imagine being the Broncos, practicing all week long, having no positive cases, and just now finding out that last week is now your bye week despite practicing all week.

This part is really not a big deal and is the kind of thing virtually everyone has dealt with around covid. 

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2 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

What games have been cancelled or affected by individual cases?

Pats game today. Ok, technically it’s 2 cases this week, but first case was early in the week. It’s what, 5 days between positive tests. Doesn’t necessarily mean we have a team outbreak.

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5 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Why have forfeits at all? If games can’t be played or rescheduled, just don’t play them. End of the season, playoff spots are determined based on winning percentage. IMO, awarding teams wins and losses after the league’s inability to come up with an effective COVID policy seems unfair on any number of levels.

I could get on board with cancelled games not counting as wins/losses.  Need some work on records though and playoff seeding.  It's not right for Tennessee, hypothetically, to not play another game and finish the season with the #1 seed @ 3-0.  

If we count missed games as ties, does that satisfy everyone?  Tennessee would go 3-0-13, 0.350 win percentage.

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34 minutes ago, moleculo said:

There are 30 teams that don't get to play the Jets too.  There are 3 teams that have to play the Chiefs twice.  The playing field isn't level already.

But the difference is those games are decided on the field by players not on a zoom call by 70+ year old billionaires.

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The Pats have a week to use so use it, but if not then I think they should play.

I think the Titans should still play Tuesday.

These teams were in the NFLs advanced protocol. There were more docs and specialists, masks during everything even practice under their helmet, food scrutinized, lockers hosed down, weight room with some chemical, ALL meetings on zoom, practiced outside.

They seems to have done everything to NOT have it spread. 

I think this goes back to how we all felt in April, that 'well I can't live scared and never do anything' feeling. So you wore masks, maybe changed clothes when you got home, disinfected your world etc.

The Titans, with NFL and NFLPA present did everything possible so I think keep the staff member home and go play.

I think this needs to be out there for discussion sake only. I expect the game cancelled but that the Titans could still get it is woah disturbing and needs to be addressed. The NFLPA loses money if it's cancelled. Players lose money. 

I didn't read enough of the Pats but I saw they were outside and docs on the sideline so I'm assuming huge scrutiny high standards for that practice. 

I know Tannehill was hoping to be able to not wear a glove and be his usual self. Ya gotta really drink stuff like that in. Everyone wearing gloves and....the detail to stop this was so high and a staff member still got it.

 

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1 minute ago, moleculo said:

I could get on board with cancelled games not counting as wins/losses.  Need some work on records though and playoff seeding.  It's not right for Tennessee, hypothetically, to not play another game and finish the season with the #1 seed @ 3-0.  

If we count missed games as ties, does that satisfy everyone?  Tennessee would go 3-0-13, 0.350 win percentage.

For starters, ties count as half a win. So in your example, TEN would be 9.5 and 6.5. But the league doesn’t count missed games as ties. And the unwritten expectation is that the league will make more effort to reschedule games with potential playoff implications . . . meaning the Dolphins and Broncos game might fall of the schedule. 

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12 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

If at the end of the season TEN has 8 games they couldn't play and the NFL has a two week window to get all games played prior to the playoffs then it is the 'best' possible way to deal with that sort of problem.  Right now TEN would have one of the highest winning percentages so if they don't play games and get rewarded for their winning percentage is that the 'best' solution for the rest of the league?

Hand Tennessee a L for every game they can't play thanks to their own stupidity.  

Just give their opponents a cancelled game and go by winning percentage.  

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2 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

For starters, ties count as half a win. So in your example, TEN would be 9.5 and 6.5. But the league doesn’t count missed games as ties. And the unwritten expectation is that the league will make more effort to reschedule games with potential playoff implications . . . meaning the Dolphins and Broncos game might fall of the schedule. 

Yes, I don't know how I ended up at 0.350. :bag:

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1 minute ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Hand Tennessee a L for every game they can't play thanks to their own stupidity.  

Just give their opponents a cancelled game and go by winning percentage.  

Their isn't any hurry to deal out W/L.  Suspend to the end of the year.  Have a two week window to 'make-up' games.  If a team has more than two suspended games then hand out W/L based on compliance with rules and winning percentage.  

Then teams who complied gain an advantage and so do teams with best winning percentage, i.e. the 'best' teams.

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17 minutes ago, moleculo said:

My FF leagues treat COVID like injuries.  Injuries Suck and can affect team's differently.  That's life.  If you have players on a Monday (or Tuesday) game that may or many not happen, how is that materially different than having, say, Michael Thomas who is 50/50 on playing on Monday?  Either you take a chance he plays or find a WW flier who plays Monday you could toss in.

I don’t see how you can approach it any other way unless your league had a contingency plan in place before the season. I guess if your league unanimously votes something in during the season, you could make it work. Are commissioners expected to use lists from every owner every week? I’d be sending a list regardless of whether my players games on Sunday night or Monday night were in jeopardy or not. Never know when a positive case is going to pop up right? Seems like a nightmare either way, but messing with rules after the season starts seems like a bad idea. 

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19 minutes ago, moleculo said:

My FF leagues treat COVID like injuries.  Injuries Suck and can affect team's differently.  That's life.  If you have players on a Monday (or Tuesday) game that may or many not happen, how is that materially different than having, say, Michael Thomas who is 50/50 on playing on Monday?  Either you take a chance he plays or find a WW flier who plays Monday you could toss in.

For that reason I went from 1 to 3 IR spots (covid or not, doesn't matter) and also made WR/TE one position so you're not hurt as bad of your TE is out.  I guess I never gave much thought to a game being cancelled. 

It's one thing to have to plan for "is Michael Thomas in or out".  If out, you can always move him to your IR and pick up some other New Orleans receiver, which at least gives you some chance.  But that's different if the entire New Orleans team is out - there's nobody to pivot to.

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4 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Hand Tennessee a L for every game they can't play thanks to their own stupidity.  

Just give their opponents a cancelled game and go by winning percentage.  

Then what about the teams they already played? They could have potentially infected Minnesota (even though they didn't) bit the threat was there. Why does Minny get a loss then? And their week 1 and 2 opponents as well. Why should they get a loss?

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4 minutes ago, Bri said:

The Pats have a week to use so use it, but if not then I think they should play.

I think the Titans should still play Tuesday.

These teams were in the NFLs advanced protocol. There were more docs and specialists, masks during everything even practice under their helmet, food scrutinized, lockers hosed down, weight room with some chemical, ALL meetings on zoom, practiced outside.

They seems to have done everything to NOT have it spread. 

I think this goes back to how we all felt in April, that 'well I can't live scared and never do anything' feeling. So you wore masks, maybe changed clothes when you got home, disinfected your world etc.

The Titans, with NFL and NFLPA present did everything possible so I think keep the staff member home and go play.

I think this needs to be out there for discussion sake only. I expect the game cancelled but that the Titans could still get it is woah disturbing and needs to be addressed. The NFLPA loses money if it's cancelled. Players lose money. 

I didn't read enough of the Pats but I saw they were outside and docs on the sideline so I'm assuming huge scrutiny high standards for that practice. 

I know Tannehill was hoping to be able to not wear a glove and be his usual self. Ya gotta really drink stuff like that in. Everyone wearing gloves and....the detail to stop this was so high and a staff member still got it.

 

I get what you're saying, but the optics of the Titans having their "secret" practice(s) when they were supposed to be isolating from each other, and a second "set" of positive cases a week or so later looks bad.

You seem more tied into the Titans than any other board member; how much of that is just optics, and how much is real?  What I mean is was it just one secret practice, or was it happening more frequently?  Did the coaching staff condone it, or even just know about it and turned a blind eye?  Was there, prior to the first positives, an attitude of flaunting/ignoring the COVID protocols that the NFL has put in place?

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8 minutes ago, mike11162 said:

Pats game today. Ok, technically it’s 2 cases this week, but first case was early in the week. It’s what, 5 days between positive tests. Doesn’t necessarily mean we have a team outbreak.

But 3 cases within the incubation period. So no, they didn’t affect a game over just one case.

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44 minutes ago, Wildcat said:

I disagree.  If your league website doesn’t allow for this, managing provisional players is going to be a nightmare for any Commish.  Bad luck is a part of fantasy football. We all knew this was a possibility coming into the season so we should all be prepared to deal with the bad luck that comes as a result.  

A nightmare?  A pencil and paper that intimidating for people?

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4 minutes ago, moleculo said:

I could get on board with cancelled games not counting as wins/losses.  Need some work on records though and playoff seeding.  It's not right for Tennessee, hypothetically, to not play another game and finish the season with the #1 seed @ 3-0.  

If we count missed games as ties, does that satisfy everyone?  Tennessee would go 3-0-13, 0.350 win percentage.

This is too far reaching, they'll play again and many more games. Cmon now.

College and high school sports have gone on win percentage for as long as I can remember. Why is this so challenging for NFL fans to accept?

Remember almost half the teams make the playoffs now. Remember the day the articles came out everyone was pointing out how 8-8 and 7-9 teams would make it. How did you feel that moment about those (unnamed undetermined) 8-8 and 7-9 teams succeeding in the playoffs? So let's not overblow the chances of se fringe team or how the Titans or Pats could be 10-3 and knock one out.

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I’m completely opposed to the NFL adding weeks to the end of the season. If they’re going to add weeks they need push the last week of the season out a week and make up the other games the newly opened weep before that. That way it eliminates the possibility of creating an extra bye week for some teams before playoffs while essentially punishing other teams by making them play right before playoffs. Having everyone play the last week of the season evens that up a bit more.

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33 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

Pretty much this

Now see that's not fair either; My league DID foresee this by adding 3 COVID/IR spots, implementing a regular IR and instruction on what happens if the season ends at certain points + waiver limits. Nobody could expect this level of insanity where games get moved multiple times a week.

I've been expecting this since April/May and I don't understand why everyone didn't. 

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TEN Details - Latest Covid Positive Person Hasn't Been In Building For 2 Weeks

Summary: From Tom Pelissero: "Contact tracing is underway to determine if the #Titans' latest COVID-19 case -- a coach, who wasn't in the building for nearly 2 weeks -- is related to its outbreak ... and whether Tuesday's game against the #Bills can move forward. "

This is from the FBG Sunday updates page

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Quote

ESPN's Adam Schefter reports the Broncos-Patriots game that was previously postponed is being moved to Week 6 on Sunday.

The game was initially moved to Monday of this week. That date was ultimately scrapped after New England returned another positive test result. The Patriots were slated to face San Francisco in Week 6 but that game will be moved to a week later in the season as well now . That could work in New England's favor, giving them extra time to prepare for the reigning Super Bowl runner-ups. The Broncos Week 6 match against the Dolphins will also get moved. Fantasy managers should keep all Broncos and Patriots players out of their starting lineups this week.

What an absolute cluster#### this season is.

Edited by The Frankman
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7 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

But 3 cases within the incubation period. So no, they didn’t affect a game over just one case.

By those standards, the Chiefs have an outbreak, too. And didn't Mahomes hug an infected player?

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1 minute ago, themeistersinger said:

TEN Details - Latest Covid Positive Person Hasn't Been In Building For 2 Weeks

Summary: From Tom Pelissero: "Contact tracing is underway to determine if the #Titans' latest COVID-19 case -- a coach, who wasn't in the building for nearly 2 weeks -- is related to its outbreak ... and whether Tuesday's game against the #Bills can move forward. "

This is from the FBG Sunday updates page

Nobody was supposed to be in the building for 2 weeks other than yesterday’s practice, right? So the key is, has he had close contact with anyone else recently? There were reports that some individuals weren’t wearing their trackers at times. If that’s true, do we really know who he came into close contact with?

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3 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

I’m completely opposed to the NFL adding weeks to the end of the season. If they’re going to add weeks they need push the last week of the season out a week and make up the other games the newly opened weep before that. That way it eliminates the possibility of creating an extra bye week for some teams before playoffs while essentially punishing other teams by making them play right before playoffs. Having everyone play the last week of the season evens that up a bit more.

They should add a week 18-19, move the games from weeks 15-17 to there and spread out a 2nd bye for all teams. 

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11 minutes ago, KingPrawn said:

At what point does you fantasy league just switch to best ball for the season? Would eliminate the messiness of contingency lineups

The league I co-commish decided not to play this year. If it had, I would have strongly pushed for best ball for this season only. 

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3 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

What are the odds the Patriots by about Wed start turning into the Tennessee Titans 2.0?

If you think only Gilmore and Newton will test positive, I really doubt it. 

I had read on Twitter that Gilmore and Newton had dinner together during the week

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7 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

I get what you're saying, but the optics of the Titans having their "secret" practice(s) when they were supposed to be isolating from each other, and a second "set" of positive cases a week or so later looks bad.

You seem more tied into the Titans than any other board member; how much of that is just optics, and how much is real?  What I mean is was it just one secret practice, or was it happening more frequently?  Did the coaching staff condone it, or even just know about it and turned a blind eye?  Was there, prior to the first positives, an attitude of flaunting/ignoring the COVID protocols that the NFL has put in place?

Not one of them has been positive so it's solely about rule breaking and informing of rules. 

The Titans (as you quoted me) probs have been asymptomatic people spreading and (if we ignore docs n tests and all the NFL offers) in real life we'd just be calling that bad luck. Your wife has no symptoms but gives you coronavirus you're probably thinking bad luck because you would of course have your guard down around her while out in public you're all cognizant of every potential way. Similarly, the Titans were (started before workout) following protocols and getting negative tests so they felt safe in their controlled environment on the team plane. 

I couldn't be more in favor of using that 15 minute Quidel test. Test em every hour, morning noon and night....go nuts. This 24 hour test is not cutting it

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5 minutes ago, themeistersinger said:

TEN Details - Latest Covid Positive Person Hasn't Been In Building For 2 Weeks

Summary: From Tom Pelissero: "Contact tracing is underway to determine if the #Titans' latest COVID-19 case -- a coach, who wasn't in the building for nearly 2 weeks -- is related to its outbreak ... and whether Tuesday's game against the #Bills can move forward. "

This is from the FBG Sunday updates page

This post right here is enough to possibly get me to move Henry back into my lineups. Because right now I'm ready to ####### scream.

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42 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

But that’s not bad luck. 

it’s a game that gets moved and then cancelled witn no means of subbing anyone in. 

a contingency plan is simple to implement & easy for a commish to move players around after the fact.

Bad luck is your dude breaks his foot, out 6-8 weeks.

having a zero in your lineup when you could have played someone if you’d known in advance that the game would be cancelled is failing to be proactive as a commish.

the reason it matters is that 1 team’s “bad luck” of rostering 4 Titans, 3 bills and 2 Pats is another teams free win.  That destroys the competitive balance of a league. It’s bad enough luck if they have to sub in inferior players.  Why punish teams for something the NFL is handling haphazardly?

The big picture matters. Especially in large roster leagues like IDP with ~16 active starters, or dynasty formats where a cheap win or loss will impact draft picks. 

I agree, but do it before Thursday, otherwise teams who had players that they didn't start have less options.  I email/texted the commish on Tues and Wed to let people put provisionals in and got no where.  It shouldn't happen now.

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13 minutes ago, Insein said:

Then what about the teams they already played? They could have potentially infected Minnesota (even though they didn't) bit the threat was there. Why does Minny get a loss then? And their week 1 and 2 opponents as well. Why should they get a loss?

Because they were able to play the game.

If the Bills are able to play the Titans on Tuesday and lose, it's an L.  No complaints on my end.

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3 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

Nobody was supposed to be in the building for 2 weeks other than yesterday’s practice, right? So the key is, has he had close contact with anyone else recently? There were reports that some individuals weren’t wearing their trackers at times. If that’s true, do we really know who he came into close contact with?

It's reading to me like they're showing the world they're following rules and not something to cancel the game.

He wasn't there yesterday or for two weeks but the rule is shutdown if there's a positive so they shut down.

Still developing story but that's how I read it

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Adam Schefter

@AdamSchefter

Here’s the plan, per sources, which is tied to Tennessee being able to play:

Broncos-Patriots next Sunday.

Week 8 (what was supposed to be Denver bye) Chargers at Broncos.

Week 11 (scheduled Miami bye) Dolphins at Broncos.

11:11 AM · Oct 11, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

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3 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

Nobody was supposed to be in the building for 2 weeks other than yesterday’s practice, right? So the key is, has he had close contact with anyone else recently? There were reports that some individuals weren’t wearing their trackers at times. If that’s true, do we really know who he came into close contact with?

I am speculating here, but *if* players/staff didn't wear their tracers for some period of time, by this point in the PR game I would think they have been told to come clean with where they've been and to participate in truthful sincere story telling to fill in the gap of missing time, or that they can face suspension and or termination. 

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4 minutes ago, Bri said:

Not one of them has been positive so it's solely about rule breaking and informing of rules. 

The Titans (as you quoted me) probs have been asymptomatic people spreading and (if we ignore docs n tests and all the NFL offers) in real life we'd just be calling that bad luck. Your wife has no symptoms but gives you coronavirus you're probably thinking bad luck because you would of course have your guard down around her while out in public you're all cognizant of every potential way. Similarly, the Titans were (started before workout) following protocols and getting negative tests so they felt safe in their controlled environment on the team plane. 

I couldn't be more in favor of using that 15 minute Quidel test. Test em every hour, morning noon and night....go nuts. This 24 hour test is not cutting it

Yeah I couldn't argue more in agreement. It is absolutely criminal that this isn't the standard. Test them every ####### half hour. False positives get caught really dang quick. Among other obvious reasons.

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22 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

I’m completely opposed to the NFL adding weeks to the end of the season. If they’re going to add weeks they need push the last week of the season out a week and make up the other games the newly opened weep before that. That way it eliminates the possibility of creating an extra bye week for some teams before playoffs while essentially punishing other teams by making them play right before playoffs. Having everyone play the last week of the season evens that up a bit more.

Not to beat a dead horse, but baseball dropped 100 games off their schedule, played an uneven amount of games, and had some teams play doubleheaders almost everyday for two weeks. Basketball and hockey had some teams not even finish out their seasons and then had to sequester teams in bubbles. I am pretty sure the last thing on the NFL’s mind or priority list is worrying about fairness at the end of the season in terms of who gets to rest prior to the playoffs. As it is, only two teams will earn a bye for the playoffs, so the huge majority of teams would not get a week off before the playoffs start anyway. This is likely item 1,001 on their list of Top 1,000 things the league has to worry about. 

Edited by Anarchy99
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I think it's possible that the Tenn coach didn't catch it from his team, but from the community.  Without getting political, some people take this more serious than others.  Feels to me like there may be an organizational culture with the Titans to downplay. That's all I'm going to say about that.

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1 minute ago, moleculo said:

I think it's possible that the Tenn coach didn't catch it from his team, but from the community.  Without getting political, some people take this more serious than others.  Feels to me like there may be an organizational culture with the Titans to downplay. That's all I'm going to say about that.

Sidebar: thanks for getting the Forrest Gump voice stuck in my head. :P

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7 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

This post right here is enough to possibly get me to move Henry back into my lineups. Because right now I'm ready to ####### scream.

I think I’m leaving Henry in on the teams I’m absolutely desperate on right now and sitting Allen and Diggs for other decent options. Would love more info before noon, but it’s all about ones risk. 

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