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Trump/White House Covid positive thread


gianmarco

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42 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

I mean you make it sound like wearing a mask and we'd stop it, wash hands and we've cured it. Buddy it doesn't work like that

Not a cure, no, but wearing masks and frequent hand washing would absolutely have a massive effect. Seems like a small price to pay to reduce deaths by chunks of percentages (different experts cite different percents, but I often hear over 50% which equates to hundreds of thousands of saved Americans.)

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3 minutes ago, mr roboto said:

Wow. 

guess what ?

nobody every got covid19 from that - shocking isn't it ? middle aged men in good condition not getting sick ... that's like 99.99% of the way healthy people have reacted to covid-19

did you not know that?

I'm NOT going to play the scared knee jerk game that Democrats want me to play. I will not. If ya'll want to go ahead. You'll see most of my stance on this is unchanged in that covid-19 is worrsome to the elderly and people who are compromised. Its attributed to the deaths of .04 % of our population. Testing is highly unreliable - did you see today where Saints have been pos/neg tested 4 times already ? good gawd !!  You can literally test neg this morning, positive this evening and neg again tomorrow morning !!

 

no, its not "wow" ......... I told the people before I played RB with them and they said nope, they're not concerned at all, no more so than if they were at a grocery store. Adult men, adult decisions. 

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1 minute ago, pecorino said:

Not a cure, no, but wearing masks and frequent hand washing would absolutely have a massive effect. Seems like a small price to pay to reduce deaths by chunks of percentages (different experts cite different percents, but I often hear over 50% which equates to hundreds of thousands of saved Americans.)

and you think people don't wash hands? great % ARE wearing masks and guess what? that magic isn't working well and you can see why by looking at my posts in the masks thread

you can say billions saved and it doesn't make it true - this is a virus, it will spread to EVERYBODY eventually. Do you not know that? Seriously - EVERYONE will eventually be exposed to it. You do know that, right ? and almost everyone will build an immunity to it and it won't both our bodies. like 99.95% 

 

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8 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

 

other countries are not "exponentially" better - if they were testing and reporting like the USA is IMO they'd all be on par with us. I mean if Trump took Australian measures or Sweden measures or UK measures or China ... he'd be called every name in the book regardless of the response he chose. 

New Zealand disagrees with your assessment. I live in a state roughly with the same population as NZ. My state has had more deaths than NZ has had infections.

But I do agree with you. If he did what NZ did, he would be called names. Mostly by his own party.

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Just now, uwillbdeadsoon said:

New Zealand disagrees with your assessment. I live in a state roughly with the same population as NZ. My state has had more deaths than NZ has had infections.

But I do agree with you. If he did what NZ did, he would be called names. Mostly by his own party.

doubt that

I'd be curious how many Democrat voters have died of covid19 and how many Republican voters .... sometimes ya'll make it sound like conservative GOP people are just reckless and virus spreaders ..... well if that's true, then Democrats are careful and protective and ya'll wouldn't ever get it right ?

of course that's silly - ITS A VIRUS .......... its spread worldwide. Every leader in every nation has failed to stop it and for good reason. In the countries they aren't reporting many new cases that'll change just as soon as the next outbreak happens - because its a VIRUS that doesn't have a vaccine to it. It will literally be around forever now - kinda like other viruses

right ?

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26 minutes ago, TheMagus said:

I am not going to elaborate further, but this may be insightful in helping to understand the conversation you are having:

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/786342-can-we-continue-the-discussion-about-masks/page/8/?tab=comments#comment-22832288

I am aware who I am talking to and his stance on this.  

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14 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

o, its not "wow" ......... I told the people before I played RB with them and they said nope, they're not concerned at all, no more so than if they were at a grocery store. Adult men, adult decisions. 

Great - did Trump give people the same choice this week?

What about the other people that you were in contact with - ie employees at the club?  Were they and the club OK with it?

 

All that said, would you have acted differently if you were positive for COVID?  Because that is an extra level and it was we are talking about Trump doing this week.

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10 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

doubt that

I'd be curious how many Democrat voters have died of covid19 and how many Republican voters .... sometimes ya'll make it sound like conservative GOP people are just reckless and virus spreaders ..... well if that's true, then Democrats are careful and protective and ya'll wouldn't ever get it right ?

of course that's silly - ITS A VIRUS .......... its spread worldwide. Every leader in every nation has failed to stop it and for good reason. In the countries they aren't reporting many new cases that'll change just as soon as the next outbreak happens - because its a VIRUS that doesn't have a vaccine to it. It will literally be around forever now - kinda like other viruses

right ?

You realize that we don't live in a world where there is R and D stores and clubs, right? 

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2 hours ago, Terminalxylem said:

It’s been clarified that Trump received oxygen while at the White House, but not WRAMC. Just as rapid onset of symptoms only a day or two after exposure is atypical, so is weaning off oxygen so quickly. Has anyone reportedly how low his saturations dropped, and for how long?

That would be detail...good luck getting that sort of thing.  We're left guessing here, which is unfortunate.  It's only one of two possibilities best I can tell.  Either it was serious, the doctors realized that and made the call to move him or it wasn't serious but the doctors thought it was, moved him and the folks at WR disagreed and had better information on how to treat the symptoms.  Neither of those scenarios gives me much confidence in the doctors surrounding the President.  Do we even know who is official doctor is?  We haven't heard from anyone other than his Chief of Staff.

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I am not a fan of our current POTUS and wish a speedy recovery for him, his family, his WH staffers, and his lawyers/advisors/consultants...and then I wish for a long life for all of them, filled with:

- a resounding electoral defeat

- criminal prosecution and jail time for any/all illegal acts they committed

- a national reckoning with what we ALL have done to bring this once-great country to this historic nadir

So, get well soon Mr. President...every long journey begins with a single first step!

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1 minute ago, SoBeDad said:

"Never in the low 80s."

Maybe it was in the mid to high 80s is my interpretation.

Quote

 

Conley says when he was not disclosing the info yesterday he was trying to reflect an "upbeat" attitude and make sure not to "steer the course of the illness" in another direction.

 

Asked if Trump was provided supplemental oxygen, doctor says he doesn’t know if nurses did or not. How do the doctors not know what the nurses are doing?

 

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Quote

When asked if the president’s oxygen saturation dipped below 90, Dr. Conley danced briefly and then said it had never reached the “low 80s.”

Using my Little Orphan Annie Decoder Ring, I can let y'all know that his oxygen saturation dipped into the high 80's.

🕵️‍♂️

 

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1 minute ago, massraider said:
Quote

When asked if the president’s oxygen saturation dipped below 90, Dr. Conley danced briefly and then said it had never reached the “low 80s.”

Using my Little Orphan Annie Decoder Ring, I can let y'all know that his oxygen saturation dipped into the high 80's.

🕵️‍♂️

 

Mid 80s seems likely.

 

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Just now, Sammy3469 said:

That lung piece doesn’t sound great.

He could have some residual effects, which might limit his campaigning. Some of us are seeing for the first time, a play by play account of a hospitalized COVID patient.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351#:~:text=COVID-19 symptoms can sometimes,completely within a few weeks.

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2 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Well, you can't really expect a doctor to keep track of every little medical treatment administered to [checks notes] the President of the United States, can you?

I’m frankly surprised they said he was on dexamethasone as that’s doesn’t sound like something they’d give normally.

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1 minute ago, Sammy3469 said:

I’m frankly surprised they said he was on dexamethasone as that’s doesn’t sound like something they’d give normally.

Quote

 

NYT tracker says the steroid treatment that Trump is getting is recommended by the NIH only for "patients with Covid-19 who are on a ventilator or are receiving supplemental oxygen.” And may be harmful otherwise.

 

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1 hour ago, uwillbdeadsoon said:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/04/mark-meadows-trump-covid-425912

I found this article enlightening re: Mark Meadows and his off the record comments.

Great article, thanks for posting. Meadows and Trump are like peas in a pod. Drain that swamp.

Also, John Boehner was vastly underrated, both as a politician and as a man.

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20 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

He could have some residual effects, which might limit his campaigning. Some of us are seeing for the first time, a play by play account of a hospitalized COVID patient.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351#:~:text=COVID-19 symptoms can sometimes,completely within a few weeks.

Yeah, we'll need to wait until later next week to have a better sense of how hard the president is hit with Covid.  But as the article points out, the ongoing effect can play out for months (or longer).  A particular concern that I've read about with some of the "long haulers" is the occasional "fog" that their minds go through.  Given Trump's age and health, it's valid to consider if he will recover 100%.  And if not a full recovery, particularly if the lingering symptoms affect his mind, then it has serious implications for the election.  

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From Maggie on twitter - 

 

Four pieces of information in that briefing: a) Trump's fever was "high" b) Trump's lung scans show "expected findings," unclear what that means but c) Trump is on a steroid the WHO recommends only for "severe and critical" COVID cases and d) Trump's oxygen lvls dropped again Sat

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1 minute ago, whoknew said:

From Maggie on twitter - 

Four pieces of information in that briefing: a) Trump's fever was "high" b) Trump's lung scans show "expected findings," unclear what that means but c) Trump is on a steroid the WHO recommends only for "severe and critical" COVID cases and d) Trump's oxygen lvls dropped again Sat

That information is what disturbs me the most.

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1 hour ago, Morton Muffley said:

I am not a fan of our current POTUS and wish a speedy recovery for him, his family, his WH staffers, and his lawyers/advisors/consultants...and then I wish for a long life for all of them, filled with:

- a resounding electoral defeat

- criminal prosecution and jail time for any/all illegal acts they committed

- a national reckoning with what we ALL have done to bring this once-great country to this historic nadir

So, get well soon Mr. President...every long journey begins with a single first step!

That’s where I’m at. Dying is a way too easy outcome for him. 

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41 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

Although Trump seems to want to be aggressive in treatment.

However, if the steroid is corticosteroid, the report from WHO explicitly recommends against that steroid for non-severe cases.  From their report, with emphasis added.

"Balance of benefits and harms The panel made its recommendation on the basis of low certainty evidence suggesting a potential increase of 3.9% in 28-day mortality among patients with COVID-19 who are not severely ill. The certainty of the evidence for this specific subgroup was downgraded due to serious imprecision (i.e. the evidence does not allow to rule out a mortality reduction) and risk of bias due to lack of blinding. In making a conditional recommendation against the indiscriminate use of systemic corticosteroids, the panel inferred that most fully informed individuals with non-severe illness would not want to receive systemic corticosteroids, but many could want to consider this intervention through shared decision-making with their treating physician"

That could really playing with fire, if they'd give this steroid in a non-severe case, given the potential for increased mortality with the President of the United States.

 

ETA: The corticosteroid is dexamethasone.  See @gianmarco's comment below on that (and maybe others to follow).

Edited by tri-man 47
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5 minutes ago, tri-man 47 said:

However, if the steroid is corticosteroid, the report from WHO explicitly recommends against that steroid for non-severe cases.  From their report, with emphasis added.

"Balance of benefits and harms The panel made its recommendation on the basis of low certainty evidence suggesting a potential increase of 3.9% in 28-day mortality among patients with COVID-19 who are not severely ill. The certainty of the evidence for this specific subgroup was downgraded due to serious imprecision (i.e. the evidence does not allow to rule out a mortality reduction) and risk of bias due to lack of blinding. In making a conditional recommendation against the indiscriminate use of systemic corticosteroids, the panel inferred that most fully informed individuals with non-severe illness would not want to receive systemic corticosteroids, but many could want to consider this intervention through shared decision-making with their treating physician"

That could really playing with fire, if they'd give this steroid in a non-severe case, given the potential for increased mortality with the President of the United States.

Given what we know so far and how quickly he has developed symptoms, I think the likelihood that he is more severely ill and receiving dexamethasone is much higher than the likelihood that they are giving him dex and he still has only mild symptoms.

Reading between all the lines, his course is not trending in an encouraging direction.

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2 minutes ago, tonydead said:

🚔  :penalty:🚔

I once dated a girl who seemed to enjoy being belligerent with everyone around her. Always interrupting, shouting people down, and laughing at everyone's attempts to have civil conversation.

When things didn't go her way, she would cry and say "That's not fair!" She would demand apologies for the tiniest perceived slights. It didn't matter if the "slight" was relevant to a particular topic or not; all she cared about was getting you to show weakness. It was like a little game to her -- attack, retreat, play the victim card, then laugh in your face and start the process all over again.

Attempts to confront her were met with denial and more belligerent behavior. She would lie right to your face, telling you that what you saw didn't really happen. She'd accuse others of doing exactly what she had been accused of doing. Then she'd turn around and do it again, laughing at you for putting your guard down.

She thrived on the attention and the drama. And she enjoyed messing with the minds of everyone around her, especially those closest to her.

Anyway, eventually I realized that the best way to deal with her was to just ignore her. I had to stop feeding the narcissistic supply. It was tough at first, because she became angry and agitated and desperately tried to get people to pay attention to her. But I stuck to it, and my life is better for it.

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9 minutes ago, Joe Summer said:

I once dated a girl who seemed to enjoy being belligerent with everyone around her. Always interrupting, shouting people down, and laughing at everyone's attempts to have civil conversation.

When things didn't go her way, she would cry and say "That's not fair!" She would demand apologies for the tiniest perceived slights. It didn't matter if the "slight" was relevant to a particular topic or not; all she cared about was getting you to show weakness. It was like a little game to her -- attack, retreat, play the victim card, then laugh in your face and start the process all over again.

Attempts to confront her were met with denial and more belligerent behavior. She would lie right to your face, telling you that what you saw didn't really happen. She'd accuse others of doing exactly what she had been accused of doing. Then she'd turn around and do it again, laughing at you for putting your guard down.

She thrived on the attention and the drama. And she enjoyed messing with the minds of everyone around her, especially those closest to her.

Anyway, eventually I realized that the best way to deal with her was to just ignore her. I had to stop feeding the narcissistic supply. It was tough at first, because she became angry and agitated and desperately tried to get people to pay attention to her. But I stuck to it, and my life is better for it.

Cool story bro. 

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https://mobile.twitter.com/bob_wachter/status/1312792223428165633?s=12

Impressions of today's Walter Reed presser: a) Conley's mea culpa: “I was trying to reflect the upbeat attitude of the team. Didn’t want to give any information that would steer the course of his illness.” Trump's fingerprints. But even so, today was only slightly better. (1/8)

b/ Biggest news is that T had 2 episodes of hypoxia (down to 93-94% O2 saturation), & Conley evaded whether sat was ever <90. "Never in low 80s" is all he offered. c/ Re: Chest CT: "There were some expected findings but nothing of concern." What the hell does that mean?...(2/8)

...To be clear, the "expected findings" on a chest CT is NORMAL. If it was normal, he should say that. Anything else should have been described. (The only semi-benign interpretation would be if the prez has a known chronic finding – like a benign nodule – that was seen)...(3/8)

... But it seems far likelier that they found evidence of pneumonia or other manifestations of Covid lung involvement or inflammation, which is serious and raises the level of concern and risk. (4/8)

d/ They pulled trigger & started dexamethasone. So they were clearly concerned. Given documented low O2, dex definitely was indicated. e/ Said they're starting to plan for possible discharge, as early as tomorrow. Even w/ WH's medical capacity, that seems like an awful call. 5/8

f/ Yes, they could give his last doses of IV remdesivir in WH, but still risky to discharge. In RECOVERY trial (which proved value of dexamethasone), mortality rate in TREATMENT group for pts requiring O2 was 23.3% (vs. 26.2% in usual care). A nearly 1-in-4 risk of death. (6/8)

g/ Finally, most tellingly: when T was hypoxic, they tried to put him on O2. "He was adamant he didn't need oxygen." In my 35 years of practice, I've never seen a pt refuse oxygen. It's crazy, & illustrates who is running the show, which may well be scariest thing I heard. (7/8)

Bottom line: it seems like Trump is stable, but remains at high risk, given transient hypoxemia, some findings on chest imaging. The happy talk and evasions are clearly at Trump's direction, putting the docs in a terrible position. No way he's ready for discharge tomorrow. (8/8)

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It seems like he’s just requesting all of the treatments and he has only “yes” people on his medical staff so he’s getting them all. You wouldn’t, by the way, be getting this level of care. 

Please ignore the misinformation about masks and the misleading statistics being posted. This virus is extremely contagious and leads to bad outcomes in some cases.  

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2 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:
2 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

You realize that we don't live in a world where there is R and D stores and clubs, right? 

Not yet at least

1 billion lawn signs say “hold my beer”

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The doctor saying he thought he could be released Monday was a strategic mistake by the campaign, I am sure that comment came straight from them.

Why instill a deadline that no one was asking for? Now if he takes a mild turn for the worse, and the doc wants him to stay at the hospital out of caution, there's pressure, that they created, to release him. 

Not smart

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3 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

doubt that

I'd be curious how many Democrat voters have died of covid19 and how many Republican voters .... sometimes ya'll make it sound like conservative GOP people are just reckless and virus spreaders ..... well if that's true, then Democrats are careful and protective and ya'll wouldn't ever get it right ?

of course that's silly - ITS A VIRUS .......... its spread worldwide. Every leader in every nation has failed to stop it and for good reason. In the countries they aren't reporting many new cases that'll change just as soon as the next outbreak happens - because its a VIRUS that doesn't have a vaccine to it. It will literally be around forever now - kinda like other viruses

right ?

You realize the original SARS is also a VIRUS without a vaccine? Why didn’t it spread worldwide, or last forever? Are countries not reporting it either?

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3 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

guess what ?

nobody every got covid19 from that - shocking isn't it ? middle aged men in good condition not getting sick ... that's like 99.99% of the way healthy people have reacted to covid-19

did you not know that?

I'm NOT going to play the scared knee jerk game that Democrats want me to play. I will not. If ya'll want to go ahead. You'll see most of my stance on this is unchanged in that covid-19 is worrsome to the elderly and people who are compromised. Its attributed to the deaths of .04 % of our population. Testing is highly unreliable - did you see today where Saints have been pos/neg tested 4 times already ? good gawd !!  You can literally test neg this morning, positive this evening and neg again tomorrow morning !!

 

no, its not "wow" ......... I told the people before I played RB with them and they said nope, they're not concerned at all, no more so than if they were at a grocery store. Adult men, adult decisions. 

see, that's the thing, you don't know that.  you can't know that.

because people can be asymptomatic and spread the disease, you can't know that.

so maybe you and the adult men you played with were never symptomatic, and maybe no one in your families or circles of friends, or coworkers was ever symptomatic that you knew of, but maybe someone one of you adult men encountered at the grocery store got sick. maybe they worked at a nursing home.

by now you and the guys you played with have perhaps unknowingly intersected with the lives of hundreds who have intersected with the lives of thousands.

so i don't know, maybe nobody ever got covid19 from that, maybe nobody has it now from that, maybe no one has died or will die.

but you don't know either.  i think it's good for everyone to recognize that, and allow that to inform one's behavior .

 

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