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Trump/White House Covid positive thread


gianmarco

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“It’s Time to Hate Them Back”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/townhall.com/columnists/derekhunter/2020/10/04/its-time-to-hate-them-back-n2577416%3famp=true

This is a very illuminating article from Townhall.com a formerly centrist conservative website that has now become all in for Trump. 
I post it here because it seems to me that most of the conservative reaction to the Trump getting covid story is the same conservative reaction to ALL news stories these days: look for ways that liberals hate them. 

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2 hours ago, tri-man 47 said:

However, if the steroid is corticosteroid, the report from WHO explicitly recommends against that steroid for non-severe cases.  From their report, with emphasis added.

"Balance of benefits and harms The panel made its recommendation on the basis of low certainty evidence suggesting a potential increase of 3.9% in 28-day mortality among patients with COVID-19 who are not severely ill. The certainty of the evidence for this specific subgroup was downgraded due to serious imprecision (i.e. the evidence does not allow to rule out a mortality reduction) and risk of bias due to lack of blinding. In making a conditional recommendation against the indiscriminate use of systemic corticosteroids, the panel inferred that most fully informed individuals with non-severe illness would not want to receive systemic corticosteroids, but many could want to consider this intervention through shared decision-making with their treating physician"

That could really playing with fire, if they'd give this steroid in a non-severe case, given the potential for increased mortality with the President of the United States.

 

ETA: The corticosteroid is dexamethasone.  See @gianmarco's comment below on that (and maybe others to follow).

Yes, but the definition of “severe” disease isn’t as bad as one would think - anyone on supplemental oxygen with saturation less than 94%, especially if symptoms more than 7 days qualifies. That ends up being most hospitalized patients with covid.

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2 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Given what we know so far and how quickly he has developed symptoms, I think the likelihood that he is more severely ill and receiving dexamethasone is much higher than the likelihood that they are giving him dex and he still has only mild symptoms.

Reading between all the lines, his course is not trending in an encouraging direction.

Yep. Based on what they told us yesterday, he wouldn’t even need to remain hospitalized. 

If his saturation’s truly dropped into the 80’s, I wouldn’t expect such a quick turnaround.

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2 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

Yep. Based on what they told us yesterday, he wouldn’t even need to remain hospitalized. 

If his saturation’s truly dropped into the 80’s, I wouldn’t expect such a quick turnaround.

Who knows?

In the last 24 hours I have read, all from reputable sources: 

1. Trump didn’t want to go to the hospital, felt awful but not terrible, his aides talked him into it because his numbers looked bad. 
 

2. Trump got totally spooked, insisted on going to the hospital despite his aides and doctors saying it was fine to stay where he was. 

3. Trump with a serious fever, can barely breath. 

4. Trump with a slight fever, breathing fine, given oxygen because his numbers were low even though he never felt he needed it. 

5. Trump furious at Meadows for contradicting the doctors. He’s in a terrible mood, wants to get out of the hospital ASAP. 

6. Trump is in a great mood, totally upbeat, hes beaten this thing and America will too; all is great! 
 

At this point I believe all of it and none of it. I guess we’ll know when we know...maybe. 

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14 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Who knows?

In the last 24 hours I have read, all from reputable sources: 

1. Trump didn’t want to go to the hospital, felt awful but not terrible, his aides talked him into it because his numbers looked bad. 
 

2. Trump got totally spooked, insisted on going to the hospital despite his aides and doctors saying it was fine to stay where he was. 

3. Trump with a serious fever, can barely breath. 

4. Trump with a slight fever, breathing fine, given oxygen because his numbers were low even though he never felt he needed it. 

5. Trump furious at Meadows for contradicting the doctors. He’s in a terrible mood, wants to get out of the hospital ASAP. 

6. Trump is in a great mood, totally upbeat, hes beaten this thing and America will too; all is great! 
 

At this point I believe all of it and none of it. I guess we’ll know when we know...maybe. 

We aren't guessing on how he's trending on reports of what they are saying about how he is. We are basing it on what's actually been done and treatments received (hospitalization, oxygen requirement, CT scan not reported as normal, dexamethasone administration) and all relatively early in the time course of the illness. They can say what they want, but knowing enough about how this disease progresses and standard of care treatment (which admittedly he isn't fully adhering to, but still), he is not even close to being out of the woods and things are likely to get worse before they get better at this point.

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6 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Who knows?

In the last 24 hours I have read, all from reputable sources: 

1. Trump didn’t want to go to the hospital, felt awful but not terrible, his aides talked him into it because his numbers looked bad. 
 

2. Trump got totally spooked, insisted on going to the hospital despite his aides and doctors saying it was fine to stay where he was. 

3. Trump with a serious fever, can barely breath. 

4. Trump with a slight fever, breathing fine, given oxygen because his numbers were low even though he never felt he needed it. 

5. Trump furious at Meadows for contradicting the doctors. He’s in a terrible mood, wants to get out of the hospital ASAP. 

6. Trump is in a great mood, totally upbeat, hes beaten this thing and America will too; all is great! 
 

At this point I believe all of it and none of it. I guess we’ll know when we know...maybe. 

Certainly the conflicting messages, compounded by Trump getting nonstandard care, makes determining the actual gravity of the situation difficult.

FWIW, he didn’t look bad in the video messages. Then again, given the ambiguity and evasiveness of official reports, I wouldn’t be shocked if the videos were pre-recorded, or performed by a stunt double (not really, but you get my point).

But an obese 74 year old requiring oxygen for covid is never a good thing.

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55 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

We aren't guessing on how he's trending on reports of what they are saying about how he is. We are basing it on what's actually been done and treatments received (hospitalization, oxygen requirement, CT scan not reported as normal, dexamethasone administration) and all relatively early in the time course of the illness. They can say what they want, but knowing enough about how this disease progresses and standard of care treatment (which admittedly he isn't fully adhering to, but still), he is not even close to being out of the woods and things are likely to get worse before they get better at this point.

This is really helpful.  I, too, am trying to read the tea leaves rather than take official administration statements at face value.  But having no medical background I have but one tea leaf to read: his twitter account.

Given my detailed forensic, contextual, deconstructed, and time-series analysis of his Twitter account over the past 48 hours my diagnosis is: this is serious.

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2 hours ago, Zigg said:

Did Boris ever relinquish power to his deputy PM?

The UK does not have a deputy PM. In fact, they don't even have an official process for replacing Johnson in an emergency. Basically, Parliament would address each situation on a case-by-case basis.

When Johnson went into the ICU, he instructed one of his cabinet members to "deputise for him where necessary". That's about as official as it gets in England.

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7 minutes ago, Joe Summer said:

Trump just hopped into a car and had the secret service drive him around the block to wave to supporters.

Attending physician at Walter Reed:

Dr. James P. Phillips, MD @DrPhillipsMD

That Presidential SUV is not only bulletproof, but hermetically sealed against chemical attack. The risk of COVID19 transmission inside is as high as it gets outside of medical procedures. The irresponsibility is astounding. My thoughts are with the Secret Service forced to play.

4:37 PM · Oct 4, 2020

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2 minutes ago, caustic said:

Attending physician at Walter Reed:

Dr. James P. Phillips, MD @DrPhillipsMD

That Presidential SUV is not only bulletproof, but hermetically sealed against chemical attack. The risk of COVID19 transmission inside is as high as it gets outside of medical procedures. The irresponsibility is astounding. My thoughts are with the Secret Service forced to play.

4:37 PM · Oct 4, 2020

Is this one of the doctors treating him?

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15 minutes ago, caustic said:

Attending physician at Walter Reed:

Dr. James P. Phillips, MD @DrPhillipsMD

That Presidential SUV is not only bulletproof, but hermetically sealed against chemical attack. The risk of COVID19 transmission inside is as high as it gets outside of medical procedures. The irresponsibility is astounding. My thoughts are with the Secret Service forced to play.

4:37 PM · Oct 4, 2020

This does seem beyond what a secret service officer should be required to do.

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It can’t be anymore clear he doesn’t care about others and doesn’t get it with this disease. Of all the people to endanger, you unnecessarily risk the health of the people dedicated to protecting your life. Unreal.

Edited by Ilov80s
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13 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

It can’t be anymore clear he doesn’t care about others and doesn’t get it with this disease. Of all the people to endanger, you unnecessarily risk the health of the people dedicated to protecting your life. Unreal.

All in order to wave to a few people.

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2 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

All in order to wave to a few people.

To be fair - this was the Bible photo-op all over again.

It wasn't about the moment - it was the imagery he (and/or his campaign, but mostly he) thought would resonate with voters around the country.

He wa wrong when he had protestors tear-gassed, and he is going to be disappointed that he will be widely panned for this also.

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2 hours ago, caustic said:

Attending physician at Walter Reed:

Dr. James P. Phillips, MD @DrPhillipsMD

That Presidential SUV is not only bulletproof, but hermetically sealed against chemical attack. The risk of COVID19 transmission inside is as high as it gets outside of medical procedures. The irresponsibility is astounding. My thoughts are with the Secret Service forced to play.

4:37 PM · Oct 4, 2020

He said a good bit more

President Donald Trump briefly left Walter Reed Medical Center late Sunday afternoon to wave to his supporters who have been gathering outside the hospital to express their support. Trump left the hospital in an armored SUV and stayed in the car as he drove past a cheering crowd of supporters and waved. Trump was sitting in the back seat and appeared to be wearing a cloth mask. At least two Secret Service agents were in the car with him.

Video of the drive-by came shortly after Trump posted a brief video on his Twitter account in which he previewed the “little surprise to some of the great patriots that we have out on the street.” In the video, Trump thanked the staff at Walter Reed and said he had “gotten to meet” some “soldiers and first responders.” Months into the coronavirus pandemic, the president seemed to imply that only now that he’s living through it does he really understand the virus, saying he has “learned a lot” over the past few days. “I learned it by really going to school,” he said. “This is the real school, this isn’t the ‘let’s read the books’ school. And I get it and I understand it. And it’s a very interesting thing.”

Some people, however, were quick to question whether Trump had rally learned that much considering he may have exposed several people to the coronavirus for his brief drive-by with supporters. One of the fiercest critics on Twitter was Dr. James P. Phillips, who is an attending physician at Walter Reed and characterized the drive-by as “insanity” for putting people at risk for no real purpose other than a photo-op. “Every single person in the vehicle during that completely unnecessary Presidential ‘drive-by’ just now has to be quarantined for 14 days,” he tweeted. “They might get sick. They may die. For political theater. This is insanity.” Phillips noted in another tweet that considering the president’s SUV is also “hermetically sealed” to prevent against a chemical attack, the risk of infection inside the vehicle “is as high as it gets outside of medical procedures.”

Footage of Trump’s supporters outside the hospital showed many have not been wearing masks.

Edited by gianmarco
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6 minutes ago, Tolstoy said:

I’m really glad that he’s learned about it now.

Yeah he’s inspired me now, I’m going to look it up on Wikipedia and see what this COVID thing is all about. 

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14 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

To be fair - this was the Bible photo-op all over again.

It wasn't about the moment - it was the imagery he (and/or his campaign, but mostly he) thought would resonate with voters around the country.

He wa wrong when he had protestors tear-gassed, and he is going to be disappointed that he will be widely panned for this also.

Brian Stetler had an apt analogy, it was more like Michael Jackson hanging the baby over the balcony. 

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Also there’s some tweets about the medication he’s on and there are significant psychological side effects. He really shouldn’t be allowed to make decisions right now. I hope they are fully monitoring his state of mind. His actions so far are troublesome. Signing blank pieces of paper, risking secret service health so drive around and waive at people. 

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5 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Also there’s some tweets about the medication he’s on and there are significant psychological side effects. He really shouldn’t be allowed to make decisions right now. I hope they are fully monitoring his state of mind. His actions so far are troublesome. Signing blank pieces of paper, risking secret service health so drive around and waive at people. 

A step too far - for me.

I think the actions he is taken are rational - from his point of view as a candidate for President.  He is trying to portray strength and leadership through these stages actions.

 

I don't think that simply because these actions backfire for a significant segment of voters makes them irrational. 

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11 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

A step too far - for me.

I think the actions he is taken are rational - from his point of view as a candidate for President.  He is trying to portray strength and leadership through these stages actions.

 

I don't think that simply because these actions backfire for a significant segment of voters makes them irrational. 

Having a deadly highly transmittable disease and then certainly against the recommendations of every medical professional caring for you demanding to drive around the block in an SUV with 6 other people is not rational. Also, I’m just saying in general, he’s on some very strong medication. I am wondering how the psychological evaluation plays when dealing with the President. Can a doctor actually order him to stay there or how would they bring up concern if they felt he wasn’t thinking clearly?

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Interesting that this follows Friday reports that anonymous SS agents were sourced as saying the President has never had any concern for their safety and was perfectly fine putting them in harms way. We see that was clearly accurate.

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5 hours ago, Terminalxylem said:

Yep. Based on what they told us yesterday, he wouldn’t even need to remain hospitalized. 

If his saturation’s truly dropped into the 80’s, I wouldn’t expect such a quick turnaround.

It's actually pretty wild how quickly patients with COVID infection can improve in regards to oxygenation.  I've seen people go from 15L to 2 to room air in matter of a day or 2.  

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31 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

A step too far - for me.

I think the actions he is taken are rational - from his point of view as a candidate for President.  He is trying to portray strength and leadership through these stages actions.

 

I don't think that simply because these actions backfire for a significant segment of voters makes them irrational. 

I agree with this.  This is...par for the course for Trump.  Hard to say he's not decisional when he's acting how he's always acted.

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1 hour ago, gianmarco said:

He said a good bit more

President Donald Trump briefly left Walter Reed Medical Center late Sunday afternoon to wave to his supporters who have been gathering outside the hospital to express their support. Trump left the hospital in an armored SUV and stayed in the car as he drove past a cheering crowd of supporters and waved. Trump was sitting in the back seat and appeared to be wearing a cloth mask. At least two Secret Service agents were in the car with him.

Video of the drive-by came shortly after Trump posted a brief video on his Twitter account in which he previewed the “little surprise to some of the great patriots that we have out on the street.” In the video, Trump thanked the staff at Walter Reed and said he had “gotten to meet” some “soldiers and first responders.” Months into the coronavirus pandemic, the president seemed to imply that only now that he’s living through it does he really understand the virus, saying he has “learned a lot” over the past few days. “I learned it by really going to school,” he said. “This is the real school, this isn’t the ‘let’s read the books’ school. And I get it and I understand it. And it’s a very interesting thing.”

Some people, however, were quick to question whether Trump had rally learned that much considering he may have exposed several people to the coronavirus for his brief drive-by with supporters. One of the fiercest critics on Twitter was Dr. James P. Phillips, who is an attending physician at Walter Reed and characterized the drive-by as “insanity” for putting people at risk for no real purpose other than a photo-op. “Every single person in the vehicle during that completely unnecessary Presidential ‘drive-by’ just now has to be quarantined for 14 days,” he tweeted. “They might get sick. They may die. For political theater. This is insanity.” Phillips noted in another tweet that considering the president’s SUV is also “hermetically sealed” to prevent against a chemical attack, the risk of infection inside the vehicle “is as high as it gets outside of medical procedures.”

Footage of Trump’s supporters outside the hospital showed many have not been wearing masks.

What if everyone in the vehicle had Covid? What if those agents were recovered?  What if they volunteered?  But by all means let’s see what some political hack/expert thinks that hates the President. 

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The bigger and dumber the stunt, the more I’m concerned about his condition. He felt the need to do this to reassure his supporters (and likely stock market investors) that everything is ok. That makes me think the truth of his condition isn’t very reassuring.

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3 hours ago, caustic said:

Attending physician at Walter Reed:

Dr. James P. Phillips, MD @DrPhillipsMD

That Presidential SUV is not only bulletproof, but hermetically sealed against chemical attack. The risk of COVID19 transmission inside is as high as it gets outside of medical procedures. The irresponsibility is astounding. My thoughts are with the Secret Service forced to play.

4:37 PM · Oct 4, 2020

This might be the most outrageous thing he’s ever done. Don’t know how to describe how disgusted I am. 

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6 minutes ago, jerseydevil20 said:

What if everyone in the vehicle had Covid? What if those agents were recovered?  What if they volunteered?  But by all means let’s see what some political hack/expert thinks that hates the President. 

Interesting take on that situation. 

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2 minutes ago, jerseydevil20 said:

What if everyone in the vehicle had Covid? What if those agents were recovered?  What if they volunteered?  But by all means let’s see what some political hack/expert thinks that hates the President. 

None of that really matters.  About 215,000 Americans have died due to Covid.  Many or most have died alone, isolated from family and friends.  MIllions more have been sick in our country and suffered through their period of illness and isolation ...carefully following recommended protocols and doctors' orders to stay quarantined; to rest and heal.  Yet the President hops into his SUV for a drive-around photo-op?  That's just a tremendous slap in the face to the many millions who have been affected by this disease.  His ego knows no bounds.  It's disgusting.

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4 minutes ago, jerseydevil20 said:

What if everyone in the vehicle had Covid? What if those agents were recovered?  What if they volunteered?  But by all means let’s see what some political hack/expert thinks that hates the President. 

If even one of those people are put at higher risk because of this stunt it’s repugnant. In case you forgot, if a normal person is hospitalized with COVID, they are isolated for weeks from even their closest family. The doctors there and the people in the White House need to tighten the ship and not give into his every whim to make sure he gets the best and most appropriate care so that he can beat this thing.

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6 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Interesting take on that situation. 

“Political hack/experts” now are apparently Dr’s that dare have an opinion that’s not proTrump and work at what Trump himself called an excellent world class hospital.  Strange times....

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Just now, dkp993 said:

“Political hack/experts” now are apparently Dr’s that dare have an opinion that’s not proTrump and work at what Trump himself called an excellent world class hospital.  Strange times....

I am sure a doctor dealing with covid wouldn't be equally disgusted at anybody that was positive and in their care going out for a joyride.  

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1 hour ago, jm192 said:

It's actually pretty wild how quickly patients with COVID infection can improve in regards to oxygenation.  I've seen people go from 15L to 2 to room air in matter of a day or 2.  

I’ve seen the the exact opposite, where they progress from room air to non rebreather right before your eyes. Older people in particular usually take a long time to get better.

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

Having a deadly highly transmittable disease and then certainly against the recommendations of every medical professional caring for you demanding to drive around the block in an SUV with 6 other people is not rational. Also, I’m just saying in general, he’s on some very strong medication. I am wondering how the psychological evaluation plays when dealing with the President. Can a doctor actually order him to stay there or how would they bring up concern if they felt he wasn’t thinking clearly?

Dexamethasone usually makes people feel energetic, and rarely psychotic. But overall, it’s well tolerated in the short term. None of his other meds should be making him crazy, although the newer drugs haven’t but around long enough to know about every side effect. My diagnosis is Trump being Trump.

The doctors can’t prevent him from acting on his cluster B personality traits, unless he lacks capacity to make decisions and/or is placing his own/other people’s well-being at risk without understanding the consequences. Obviously, the precise risk to the secret service agents is a little murky, but I have little doubt Trump knows what he’s doing.

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2 hours ago, jerseydevil20 said:

What if everyone in the vehicle had Covid? What if those agents were recovered?  What if they volunteered?  But by all means let’s see what some political hack/expert thinks that hates the President. 

Dr. James Phillips from Walter Reed Hospital is a political hack/expert that hates the President? 

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1 hour ago, Terminalxylem said:

I’ve seen the the exact opposite, where they progress from room air to non rebreather right before your eyes. Older people in particular usually take a long time to get better.

Absolutely.  People can get incredibly sick very quickly.

But I’ve seen several patients oxygen requirements fall rather rapidly once they “turn the corner.”

 

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1 hour ago, Terminalxylem said:

Dexamethasone usually makes people feel energetic, and rarely psychotic. But overall, it’s well tolerated in the short term. None of his other meds should be making him crazy, although the newer drugs haven’t but around long enough to know about every side effect. My diagnosis is Trump being Trump.

The doctors can’t prevent him from acting on his cluster B personality traits, unless he lacks capacity to make decisions and/or is placing his own/other people’s well-being at risk without understanding the consequences. Obviously, the precise risk to the secret service agents is a little murky, but I have little doubt Trump knows what he’s doing.

We typically say you’re AMA if you leave the premises.  I guess POTUS can just check himself back in at any point though.  🤷‍♂️

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1 hour ago, jm192 said:

We typically say you’re AMA if you leave the premises.  I guess POTUS can just check himself back in at any point though.  🤷‍♂️

Patients get a 4 hour window before losing their bed at our hospital, though you certainly can declare them AMA before that.

I finally saw some picture and video of his ride - at least the secret service guys are wearing full PPE in the vehicle.

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7 hours ago, jerseydevil20 said:

What if everyone in the vehicle had Covid? What if those agents were recovered?  What if they volunteered?  But by all means let’s see what some political hack/expert thinks that hates the President. 

Are we allowed to criticize the president about anything, or are we all just haters and he never does anything wrong? 
Honestly, if the answer to Meuller, covid, Ukraine, women alleging he sexually harassed them, and every other scandal is that “everyone hates him and it’s a political hit job,” how could we ever hold him accountable for anything? Obviously you and many other voters aren’t holding him accountable. 

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7 hours ago, Terminalxylem said:

Dexamethasone usually makes people feel energetic, and rarely psychotic. But overall, it’s well tolerated in the short term. None of his other meds should be making him crazy, although the newer drugs haven’t but around long enough to know about every side effect. My diagnosis is Trump being Trump.

The doctors can’t prevent him from acting on his cluster B personality traits, unless he lacks capacity to make decisions and/or is placing his own/other people’s well-being at risk without understanding the consequences. Obviously, the precise risk to the secret service agents is a little murky, but I have little doubt Trump knows what he’s doing.

Thank you. I saw some people speculating on the energy level. Someone said they had brain surgery and the next day felt they could get up and leave the hospital because they felt so good. Obviously not a good idea. It’s just interesting when we think about the capacity the President has to be at to do their job and to what degree that could be impaired by a disease and medication. I’ve never had COVID but I’ve had the flu and my thinking was not always super clear. 

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