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Dynasty & Redraft: QB Justin Fields, Da Bears


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22 minutes ago, chinawildman said:

Exactly, every team drafting in the top 10 with the exception of the Jags and Jets see the value of their picks increasing if the possibility of Fields falling exists. It's possible almost all the negative stuff about him is just baloney from pre-draft negotiations from these teams trying to juice up the appeal of their picks.

I still think it's 50/50 that the Jets take him and I think the niners will be running to the podium to take Fields. 

I think he ends up in San Fran. as well.

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It's like saying the Bills were dumb to draft a QB out of Wyoming.

None were considered elite prospects except for Dwayne Haskins by some people. Fields will pan out or not in the NFL and it will not have anything to do with where he played in college.  

Exactly, every team drafting in the top 10 with the exception of the Jags and Jets see the value of their picks increasing if the possibility of Fields falling exists. It's possible almost all the neg

15 hours ago, chinawildman said:

Honestly the more negative press that comes out about Fields, the more I feel like he's a can't-miss prospect.

I think ultimately he'll go Top 3 - I wouldn't be shocked if the Jets take him over Wilson in fact.

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On 4/6/2021 at 8:21 PM, rockaction said:

Yes, it was indeed. I agree that it might be damaging to say something like that and not have any evidence. I was going further. There also is a counter-narrative to his "one-read" criticism that is predicated upon the football Twitterverse's belief that this is because of his race. In other words, Farrar and Nguyen are arguing that other quarterbacks aren't being subject to the same scrutiny because of his race. I've watched this unfold for a few weeks to a month now (I follow all these guys, and I can tell you that their political postings are sort of indicative -- Farrar's is -- of whether they believe this or not) from some corners. I'm bringing it up because I'm not sure I trust the counter-narrative over the narrative. But they make football points, so I'm inclined to agree with the counter-narrative, if that makes sense. I'm just saying the "one-read" thing isn't lazily racial. It's just because of a lack of knowledge about Fields's playbook. I fully expect Fields, if Farrar and co. are right, to rip it up in the pros.

No one knows for sure if that Fields stuff is racially based. That is a fact. It's also a fact that we don't now if the following is racially based:  

We heard Cam Newton, Lamar Jackson (both would need YEARS of seasoning) couldn't read defenses.  It's great that Lamar managed to overcome his clear learning deficiency and throw 6 picks during his MVP 2nd year in the league.  Feel free to read the Lamar thread here for people regurgitating this talking point. It's all there.  

Kyler Murray was arrogant (like Cam), with questionable leadership skills.  Jalen Hurts, wouldn't you know it? Even tho he had accuracy stats only rivaled by Burrow and Tua that season, has problems with progressions.

Trey Lance will need to sit for a while, because of his inexperience.  Have you read any of those concerns about Mac Jones, who started the same number of games?  Can anyone answer this question with anything quantifiable?  

No one says Darnold can't read defenses, or go through progressions.  Nope!  Weird, considering he was a turnover machine in college.  See, he just needs to cut down, clean that up.  Look at the hilarious list of positives and negatives in that scouting report.  For real.  

Johnny Football, no one questioned his game intelligence, nah, he just needed to play within the offense. 

 

 

Dan Orlovsky is smart enough to know this, and he's smart enough to realize late that he was being used to lower a guy's stock, and he did a 180, and owned up to what was happening. I don't like Orlovsky, but I love the way he handled this. 

The crappy part is, whoever was trying to get Fields' stock to drop, knew that the old 'problems with progressions/can't read defenses' trope was tried and true, and would get repeated.  

 

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On 4/8/2021 at 7:50 AM, massraider said:

No one knows for sure if that Fields stuff is racially based. That is a fact. It's also a fact that we don't now if the following is racially based: 

I should have said "necessarily" at one point in that posting and there wouldn't be much debate over what I'm personally trying to say. I believe that the "one-read" thing is not necessarily lazy racial analysis like, say, comparing Trey Lance to Jameis Winston (which has been done) is lazily racial.

PFF has Fields with the highest rating of all passers once he progresses past his first read. The second? Zach Wilson. By a .05 of a grade. So I'm not sure that the points being made in favor of the counter-narrative going around (that Wilson reads defenses poorly and should slide in the draft in comparison to Fields) is warranted, in at least that respect.

My take is that we're seeing an over-correction to the narrative by guys that make their political leanings front and center of their discussions often in professional/personal realms. Now that's fact. I happen, by temperament, to not trust the knee-jerk analysis that flows therefrom unless there's really good reason to do so.

But I think Fields' case falls under that category of having a "really good reason." Ergo, a counter-narrative that I believe is flawed (most great college QBs that have the arm strength to play in the pros but don't make it are "one-read" guys at some level almost by definition) turns out right this time because of Fields' assignments in his college playbook.

I hope that's the last we re-visit the issue, though I'm not holding out any hope.

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On 3/27/2021 at 4:13 AM, osubuckeyeman said:

The cons for me with Fields is his decision making can be awful at times but that can be just his aggressive nature of wanting to make a play and that could be coached out of him or in fact he is just a bad decision maker...

I don't think you can coach split-second decision-making out of someone.  Or very rarely, at best.  That's actually one of the biggest differences, what separates them.  If something like instinct was as simple as coaching it out of them, a lot more would make it.  I mean, there wouldn't be any Jeff George's.

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What scouts say about OSU star QB Fields heading into draft

Excerpt:

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WHAT SCOUTS ARE SAYING

“Fields has all of the ability in the world.”

“He’s like a ball of clay. He can be molded.”

“I like his physical and mental maturity. He’s a man -- both physically and mentally.”

“I like the fact he’s been a winner since Day 1.”

“He needs to be around football 7/24/365, because I don’t see him as a natural, instinctual quarterback when it comes to timing and chemistry with receivers, tight ends and backs.”

"When they played, it was like the varsity against the JV. His accuracy is not as good as what his completion percentage shows."

"I think he's going to be a really good player."

“He’ll have to learn to turn down hits.”

“I’m not a big Fields guy. Under pressure, he’s OK. But he has a slow release.”

“Kyle (Shanahan) might look at him like he’s too talented to pass up.”

 

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On 4/10/2021 at 11:59 AM, Andy Dufresne said:

I think I've decided that I will take Fields (early 2nd?) at his price than Lawrence at his (somewhere in the 1st?).

If you need QB, you can get a proven asset at the same price or cheaper

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On 4/9/2021 at 1:46 PM, Rodrigo Duterte said:

I don't think you can coach split-second decision-making out of someone.  Or very rarely, at best.  That's actually one of the biggest differences, what separates them.  If something like instinct was as simple as coaching it out of them, a lot more would make it.  I mean, there wouldn't be any Jeff George's.

I'm speaking more about the nature of always trying to make a big play. He needs to learn to take what the defense gives him. Ohio State's offense is a on purpose a big play offense.  The Ohio State offense is a mesh style offense with the wide receivers and sometimes that is a read for not only the QB but also the WR. Fields is sometimes waiting for the WR to see the option he is to take or to see the same thing he is seeing. Touchdown to check down.  Big play to little play but both the QB and the WR is reading information on the route at the same time. The last play in the Clemson game in 2019 with Chris Olave is a perfect example. Fields read the play correctly and Olave incorrectly.  If both read it the same it's 6.  Fields will be learning to process  the decision quicker and check down more and take what the defense gives him. Fields to a fault is looking for the big play.  That is what I'm speaking of.  How quickly he processes information? I don't know and I think it's a hard read for scouts to determine based of Ohio State's offense does that mean he can't? No. Does that mean he can? No.  It means you are going to have to find out when you get him in. I think teams don't like that but he could be the 2nd best QB in this draft.  Bad decision making and processing information is different. I still think he ends up the 3rd pick but anything can happen in the NFL draft which makes the whole thing that much more fun.

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In start 1QB leagues I’m starting to think I value him more than guys like Dyami Brown, all of the RBs drafted later than the third round, and depending on my team need, more than either of the Moore WRs.

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Here's an interesting article to add context to the charge of Fields being a "one-read" quarterback. The author finds it's rather a murky charge and that he does quite well when stacked up against other guys. He calls all the guys "arrogant" players (in a good sense and faulty sense) that lock on a bit to their first read because they think they can make the perfect throw to them. Interesting stuff.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/justin-fields-progressions-first-read-analysis

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39 minutes ago, osubuckeyeman said:

 Fields to a fault is looking for the big play.  

I believe you.  

It occurs to me that this might never get fixed, and might not be a fatal flaw.  Favre and Elway made some dumb plays chasing great plays.  

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37 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

No, I can't. Not on Zealots.

This is true. Our dynasty drafts have to figure the top QBs going in the first two rounds because of deep rosters. Most mocks have four going in the first two rounds this year, and I suspect that will be the case (to a good degree) at Zealots.

Which is good for me. I have Mahomes.

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50 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

No, I can't. Not on Zealots.

1 QB league?  I know nothing about that format. 

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4 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

1 QB league?  I know nothing about that format. 

Yep. 1 QB league. 51 man rosters, 48 during restricted free agent season, 60, I think, in the off-season until the year starts, etc., for the PPR version. I don't know about the non-PPR version. 

Lots of players. Top QBs go in the first round in 1 QB leagues. Not by lesser players, either. League winners and good players. We had Burrow and Tua go in the first round, eleven and twelve, last year. This year there will be three or so (at least) in the first two rounds. Just the nature of the beast.

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3 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Yep. 1 QB league. 51 man rosters, 48 during restricted free agent season, 60, I think, in the off-season until the year starts, etc., for the PPR version. I don't know about the non-PPR version. 

Lots of players. Top QBs go in the first round in 1 QB leagues. Not by lesser players, either. League winners and good players. We had Burrow and Tua go in the first round, eleven and twelve, last year. This year there will be three or so (at least) in the first two rounds. Just the nature of the beast.

Still feels like you could get a Cousins or Brady cheaper 

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1 minute ago, tangfoot said:

Still feels like you could get a Cousins or Brady cheaper 

Nope. Already rostered. Seriously. There are no QBs that aren't rostered in my league. Only backups, and sometimes those are rostered in the off-season, making it difficult to predict who will be dropped. Notice Andy liking my post. That's how these leagues go.

It's like the guys in FFPC who have serious cut downs and need to squeak in under roster constraints. Lots of guys go in weird trades or what seem to be weird cuts, but they're necessary due to league constraints. Ours is the opposite, and any starting quarterback is usually rostered. Fitzpatrick went for well over a third of a guy's FAAB this off-season once he signed with the Skins.

It's league-specific. Now, if one wants to beat the norm in my league, then by all means devise a system whereby it's prudent. I'll be first in line. But that's a tough nut to crack. There's a lot of inherent wisdom tied up in the typical roster. Years of experience. I actually, in my league, am in second for holding the fewest quarterbacks, holding three, Mahomes rostered. Another guy has Dak and Stafford and nothing else. But Mahomes is the only reason I can do that. The Murray GM and Allen GM also have three QBs. But that's the minimum to hold in case of injury because there are no backups. Twelve teams with three QBs equals thirty-six at least.

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I didn’t say anything about waivers. I don’t care how deep your roster is, it’s unfathomable to me that someone prefers mediocre and old vet QBs to an early rookie 2nd. 

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23 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

I didn’t say anything about waivers. I don’t care how deep your roster is, it’s unfathomable to me that someone prefers mediocre and old vet QBs to an early rookie 2nd. 

You need more than third for a QB. Andy Dalton went for a third and fifth in my league last year. That's fine you don't believe that. You're just generally incorrect.

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7 minutes ago, rockaction said:

You need more than third for a QB. Andy Dalton went for a third and fifth in my league last year. That's fine you don't believe that. You're just generally incorrect.

I said to spend a 2nd on a vet rather than an unproven rookie QB. How is that saying that Dalton is worth less than a 3rd/5th?

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Just now, tangfoot said:

I said to spend a 2nd on a vet rather than an unproven rookie QB. How is that saying that Dalton is worth less than a 3rd/5th?

Oh, I misunderstood what you were saying. You'd rather have the vet than Fields. I was thinking you were saying that Fields wouldn't approach a second-round pick, which he will. Perhaps I'm just talking past you. I'm looking at Fields's going rate, in 1 QB dynasty rookie mocks and in our leagues, and it's a second-round value, generally early. He's ahead of Wilson and Lance. He's ranked 14th in 1QB Rookie Dynasty ADP per DLFs aggregation of MLF mocks and drafts.

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3 hours ago, massraider said:

ha, someone dug this up from when Fields was in high school:

https://twitter.com/QBCollective/status/1381406281764728834

LOL. Mac Jones, my ###. Shanny Jr. is praying nightly on his bet that the Jags and Jets are actually dumb enough to buy into the Joey Lawrence and BYU Wilson hype and pass on the true generational QB of this draft.

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1 hour ago, SeniorVBDStudent said:

Who else besides Daniel Jeremiah is spewing the nonsense that the 49ers will take Jones at 3?

As far as I know, he's not a Belichick puppet....but I don't understand how "suddenly" Jones is 3 and Fields is 7.

2021 NFL Draft: What Mac Jones advocates see in 49ers target

Excerpt:

Quote

With fewer than three weeks until the 2021 NFL Draft, an emerging consensus has identified Alabama quarterback as the 49ers' pick at No. 3 overall.

Jones is the odds-on betting favorite. Jones is the 49ers' pick in many mock drafts. NBC Sports' Chris Simms, Peter King and ESPN's Adam Schefter all think Jones is the pick. NBC Sports Bay Area's Matt Maiocco does, too.

 

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Albert Breer @AlbertBreer

One tell on people that haven't really watched Justin Fields play: Calling him a "runner". I'd say if anything most people who watched him at Ohio State would tell you they probably should've run him MORE.

He played the position largely from the pocket the last 2 years.

https://twitter.com/albertbreer/status/1381621889429344256?s=21

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Sports Illustrated's Albert Breer reports the Falcons will be in attendance at Ohio State QB Justin Field's second Pro Day.

Breer added that HC Arthur Smith will be joined by his DC Dean Pees and OC Dave Ragone. The Falcons are making a big show of their interest in Fields but this could easily be a way for Atlanta to entice another team to trade up to the No. 4 overall pick. The 49ers Jets, Broncos, and Patriots will also be at Field's second Pro Day. Neither New England nor Denver have a top-five pick but both could be in play to take Fields if he falls. Matt Ryan's contract all but ensures that he'll be on Atlanta's roster for a minimum of two more years. While Fields could start on the bench and learn from Ryan, adding an immediate play-maker making a run at the playoffs looks more likely based on Ryan's contract.

RELATED: 

Matt Ryan

, Atlanta Falcons

SOURCE: Albert Breer on Twitter

Apr 13, 2021, 6:01 PM ET

 

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“Justin was the only guy of the 24 quarterbacks there who was not only able to do it, but he was able to have the mental flexibility to flip calls on-demand without seeing it,” Avery said. “He had the highest grade of not only going through the correct read, but getting off things in the correct order. And he took the least amount of sacks. So for him to be able to do that at 18, it’s undoubted to me that he has the tools to do that a few years since then.”

Day’s offensive scheme tasked Fields with the responsibility of managing complex reads in addition to facing elite competition. According to NBC Sports Edge’s Derrik Klassen, 75 percent of Fields’s career opponents rank in the top 20 in defensive SP+. That’s by far the highest average of any QB in this year’s class. That difficult schedule never hindered Fields, though—the Buckeyes finished second in offensive SP+ last season, up from fourth in 2019.

Just placed a bet on Fields going #3. And a smaller hedge bet that he goes #2.

If 49ers take Mac Jones, they are buffoons. They won't take Mac Jones.

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14 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Jets going to his pro day, per Twitter. (Can't find the tweet.)

In case something happens to Wilson in the next 2 weeks. I don't think SF or any team would offer the Jets enough to move down from 1.02. 

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26 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

In case something happens to Wilson in the next 2 weeks. I don't think SF or any team would offer the Jets enough to move down from 1.02. 

Jets could still take Fields at 2. Or try to squeeze Shanahan into paying up to take Fields at 2, lol.

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4 minutes ago, Faust said:

Then he talks about being a suburban dad wearing lazy clothes so fit doesn't matter. Really good analogy. Made me want to sign up for the product.

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Quote

NFL @NFL

Justin Fields showed out again for his second Pro Day. (via @OhioStateFB)

@justnfields | @NFLDraft

https://twitter.com/nfl/status/1382433684981108737?s=21
 

Quote

Bleacher Report @BleacherReport

Footage from Justin Fields’ second pro day @brgridiron Among teams in attendance, per @AlbertBreer: - Jets - 49ers - Falcons - Panthers - Broncos (via @OhioStateFB)

https://twitter.com/bleacherreport/status/1382409243924512770?s=21

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  • Faust changed the title to Dynasty & Redraft: QB Justin Fields, Da Bears

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