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The Biden Years - Every day something more shocking than the last!!


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15 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

How would the progessive wing of the party be the real president is my point...seems like a prediction based on nothing but fear tactics about "progressives" or "socialism".

I’m already on record that joe will win so I’m not trying tear him down.  The democrats feel the future is the progressive wing of their party so Kamala was the VP choice knowing full well that joe will not run for 2nd term and possibly step aside during 1st term.  This was the best course to move progressive agenda forward since it’s not supported by the majority.  

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59 minutes ago, stlrams said:

Rest assure that joe will win but he is only a figurehead.  The real President will be the progressive wing of the Democratic Party.   This was the only way for the progressives to win.  

This was Trump's only chance of winning.  He needed to go up against a progressive like Bernie which would allow him to capture a large part of the middle vote.  The mainstream Dem's were aware and that's why they all resigned from the race and gave their support to Biden.  

Trump is still mad about the Democratic primary.  Specifically Elizabeth Warren.  She took way to long to get out of the race and throw her support to Bernie.  As soon as Biden became the front runner, most Republicans became aware that it would be extremely difficult for Trump to get a 2nd term.

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3 minutes ago, stlrams said:

I’m already on record that joe will win so I’m not trying tear him down.  The democrats feel the future is the progressive wing of their party so Kamala was the VP choice knowing full well that joe will not run for 2nd term and possibly step aside during 1st term.  This was the best course to move progressive agenda forward since it’s not supported by the majority.  

But Kamala isn't a progressive?  Didn't she get out of the primary race and throw her support to Biden so that Bernie wouldn't win.

The progressives were Bernie and Warren.  Who else is Fox news painting as a progressive?  

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2 minutes ago, stlrams said:

I’m already on record that joe will win so I’m not trying tear him down.  The democrats feel the future is the progressive wing of their party so Kamala was the VP choice knowing full well that joe will not run for 2nd term and possibly step aside during 1st term.  This was the best course to move progressive agenda forward since it’s not supported by the majority.  

Out of curiosity, what is so scary about the "progressive agenda?" Republicans keep threatening that they'll raise taxes and lose jobs, neither of which really happen on a massive scale. Granted, I don't like abortion, but I feel as though a more effective solution would be to find ways to preemptively avoid it by things like counseling, not restricting adoptions, actual reproductive education, etc.

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2 minutes ago, Kal El said:

Out of curiosity, what is so scary about the "progressive agenda?" Republicans keep threatening that they'll raise taxes and lose jobs, neither of which really happen on a massive scale. Granted, I don't like abortion, but I feel as though a more effective solution would be to find ways to preemptively avoid it by things like counseling, not restricting adoptions, actual reproductive education, etc.

They really play down to a base emotion.  Scary progressives.  They'll take away your guns, raise your taxes, eliminate the oil industry, etc.  They really push to make it much more like the green party than it actually is.  Would anyone have heard of AOC if the republicans hadn't used her as the poster child for the progressives?

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2 minutes ago, Chaz McNulty said:

They really play down to a base emotion.  Scary progressives.  They'll take away your guns, raise your taxes, eliminate the oil industry, etc.  They really push to make it much more like the green party than it actually is.  Would anyone have heard of AOC if the republicans hadn't used her as the poster child for the progressives?

That's another thing, they keep threatening that our guns are going to be taken away, yet I have seen no legitimate effort to actually take them. Furthermore, I enjoy shooting and hunting, and I think any effort that will make it harder for criminals to get firearms and use them should be explored. Background checks, mental health evaluations(that system of care needs a huge overhaul as well), stuff like that.

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8 minutes ago, Summer Wheat said:

Why don`t the "Progessives" get their own party going and leave the Dems alone? 

So true. I mean they already have their own auto/home insurance. What are they waiting for?

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53 minutes ago, Chaz McNulty said:

But Kamala isn't a progressive?  Didn't she get out of the primary race and throw her support to Biden so that Bernie wouldn't win.

The progressives were Bernie and Warren.  Who else is Fox news painting as a progressive?  

She is one, if not, the most liberal senators currently.  She scores very high as measured by progressives.  

https://govtrackinsider.com/our-ideology-score-placed-kamala-harris-as-the-most-liberal-senator-in-2019-bbd25493ca72

https://progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?house=senate

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1 hour ago, stlrams said:

I’m already on record that joe will win so I’m not trying tear him down.  The democrats feel the future is the progressive wing of their party so Kamala was the VP choice knowing full well that joe will not run for 2nd term and possibly step aside during 1st term.  This was the best course to move progressive agenda forward since it’s not supported by the majority.  

More than two thirds of Americans support Medicare For All

67% of Americans think the government is not doing enough to combat climate change.

67% of Americans don’t think Roe v. Wade should be overturned.

Two thirds of Americans think the rich should be taxed more.

 

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1 hour ago, Kal El said:

Out of curiosity, what is so scary about the "progressive agenda?" Republicans keep threatening that they'll raise taxes and lose jobs, neither of which really happen on a massive scale. Granted, I don't like abortion, but I feel as though a more effective solution would be to find ways to preemptively avoid it by things like counseling, not restricting adoptions, actual reproductive education, etc.

Bigger government, defund police, healthcare for all, free college education, green new deal etc etc......

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Just now, stlrams said:

Bigger government, defund police, healthcare for all, free college education, green new deal etc etc......

I looked at one of those articles you posted, and honestly, none of those seemed to be a terrible idea. Government needs to be better, not necessarily bigger, police need retraining and to get rid of the military surplus weaponry, everyone should have healthcare that's affordable and won't send them into piles of debt, doubly so for college(which is a racket if ever there was one, learning trades notwithstanding), and what's so awful about trying to take care of the environment?

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1 minute ago, stlrams said:

Bigger government, defund police, healthcare for all, free college education, green new deal etc etc......

60% of Americans support the Green New Deal

76% of Americans support moving resources from Law Enforcement into Social Services to prevent crimes from happening to begin with. (bad slogan, depends on how the question is asked.)

63% of Americans favor free tuition

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6 minutes ago, McBokonon said:

 Not sure how abortion is progressive since it’s settle law from 1973.  Of course majority of people think the rich should be taxed because it doesn’t impact them.  

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2 hours ago, stlrams said:

Rest assure that joe will win but he is only a figurehead.  The real President will be the progressive wing of the Democratic Party.   This was the only way for the progressives to win.  

Exactly. Biden is a complete puppet. Most of us new this already, but look who he picked for VP.

A person who spent their entire time calling him a racist during the Democrat debate. Out of the other 20 Democrat candidates (and people like Duckworth, Abrahams) he picks her? The person who treated him the worst? C’mon man.

This is why I laugh when I see the “FBG independents” and neocons saying they are voting for Biden. Total puppet show.

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1 minute ago, Kal El said:

I looked at one of those articles you posted, and honestly, none of those seemed to be a terrible idea. Government needs to be better, not necessarily bigger, police need retraining and to get rid of the military surplus weaponry, everyone should have healthcare that's affordable and won't send them into piles of debt, doubly so for college(which is a racket if ever there was one, learning trades notwithstanding), and what's so awful about trying to take care of the environment?

No issue with protecting environment but we need to understand cost (jobs, money etc).  I’ll give you a real example.  I live in ct which is a very liberal state dominated by the democrats for years.  In 2018, the state passed a law called 20% by 2020 which essentially said, the utility companies in our state must use 20% renewable energy by July 2020.  Great idea right.?  Everyone’s utility bills doubled...  why , the state only produces 12% renewable energy (10% from nuclear power plant which dems want to close) so utility companies had to buy green energy from others dramatically increasing costs.  The state did nothing to achieve this goal arbitrarily set by them.  Now they want to pass another law that’s 40% by 2040.  That there is the definition of government doing more damage the good.  I had a $500 electricity bill...

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2 minutes ago, stlrams said:

No issue with protecting environment but we need to understand cost (jobs, money etc).  I’ll give you a real example.  I live in ct which is a very liberal state dominated by the democrats for years.  In 2018, the state passed a law called 20% by 2020 which essentially said, the utility companies in our state must use 20% renewable energy by July 2020.  Great idea right.?  Everyone’s utility bills doubled...  why , the state only produces 12% renewable energy (10% from nuclear power plant which dems want to close) so utility companies had to buy green energy from others dramatically increasing costs.  The state did nothing to achieve this goal arbitrarily set by them.  Now they want to pass another law that’s 40% by 2040.  That there is the definition of government doing more damage the good.  I had a $500 electricity bill...

So they had a plan that they didn't know how to implement. That's poor planning and oversight, but not necessarily the fault of the party in charge. Besides, both parties couldn't stick to a budget to save their lives, what they should have done is worked on infrastructure(which would have made more jobs and money), and then put the plan in motion. Unfortunate, but I still don't see how it's scary.

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1 hour ago, stlrams said:

I’m already on record that joe will win so I’m not trying tear him down.  The democrats feel the future is the progressive wing of their party so Kamala was the VP choice knowing full well that joe will not run for 2nd term and possibly step aside during 1st term.  This was the best course to move progressive agenda forward since it’s not supported by the majority.  

I think some democrats feel that is the future...I wouldn't say most or even "The Democrats" feel that is the future of the party.    Kamala was Joe's VP choice yes...why are you pushing that as to what "the Democrats" or the party as a whole was pushing.  Perhaps...they party wants something else and thought, if they lose, they didn't want to hurt another candidate...and if they win and Joe is a 1 term POTUS (which he should only serve one year if he wins)...that they think they can run someone else that would beat Kamala.

I just don't see any such evidence that the party as a whole at all is pushing the progressive side as the overall future.  If they were...they would not have been seemingly so against Bernie and the other progessive candidates

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1 hour ago, Chaz McNulty said:

They really play down to a base emotion.  Scary progressives.  They'll take away your guns, raise your taxes, eliminate the oil industry, etc.  They really push to make it much more like the green party than it actually is.  Would anyone have heard of AOC if the republicans hadn't used her as the poster child for the progressives?

Socialism!  Communism!  Other scary words!

Im not sure all what people actually understand about progressives.  Or how difficult it would be to push the most extreme stuff they seem so scared of...its as if congress doesn't exist.

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1 hour ago, Summer Wheat said:

Why don`t the "Progessives" get their own party going and leave the Dems alone? 

Same reason other factions haven't left the Demoratic or Republican parties in the past.

Typically would hurt the chances and overall agenda they want to push.  Simply put, they have more power now within the Democratic party than they would on their own for the most part.  They see what little the Green Party gets...

It may happen eventually...but don't see the Democratic party splintering before there is a similar division about to happen to the Republicans...it would spell doom for the party for years.

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43 minutes ago, stlrams said:

 Not sure how abortion is progressive since it’s settle law from 1973.  Of course majority of people think the rich should be taxed because it doesn’t impact them.  

When the balance of wealth is so far out of whack that 100 people make more money than the rest of the country, that's a huge problem. As for abortion, I am against that, though I'd rather see it made unnecessary instead of illegal.

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45 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

Exactly. Biden is a complete puppet. Most of us new this already, but look who he picked for VP.

A person who spent their entire time calling him a racist during the Democrat debate. Out of the other 20 Democrat candidates (and people like Duckworth, Abrahams) he picks her? The person who treated him the worst? C’mon man.

This is why I laugh when I see the “FBG independents” and neocons saying they are voting for Biden. Total puppet show.

She never called him a racist during the debate.

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1 hour ago, stlrams said:

She is one, if not, the most liberal senators currently.  She scores very high as measured by progressives.  

https://govtrackinsider.com/our-ideology-score-placed-kamala-harris-as-the-most-liberal-senator-in-2019-bbd25493ca72

https://progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?house=senate

Interesting.  So the guy who runs the first site is a hacker and has degrees in psychology and linguistics....no degree of any kind in government satistics or anyhing useful to determine who is liberal and who is not ...and admits at the beginning he cherry picks the legislaion.  And the second link says in its methodology that it takes people they consider most liberal and judges how much people vote with these liberals so basically  she is  a liberal because she votes wih liberals that they determined.....because the site considers them liberals?  If thats not the political version of a self fulfilling prophecy I dont know what is.  

 

 

Edited by da_budman
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13 hours ago, Widbil83 said:

Man.  People will believe any nonsense out there.  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1245387

Edited by Alex P Keaton
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2 hours ago, Widbil83 said:

Exactly. Biden is a complete puppet. Most of us new this already, but look who he picked for VP.

A person who spent their entire time calling him a racist during the Democrat debate. Out of the other 20 Democrat candidates (and people like Duckworth, Abrahams) he picks her? The person who treated him the worst? C’mon man.

This is why I laugh when I see the “FBG independents” and neocons saying they are voting for Biden. Total puppet show.

Maybe he chose her because she was the right person for the job rather than how nice she treated him. I know we’ve had 4 years of Trump but people can make decisions without making personal slights top priority in every choice:

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3 hours ago, stlrams said:

Bigger government, defund police, healthcare for all, free college education, green new deal etc etc......

Has government and it's spending gone down sharply in the past four years in your view?

I ask because every election cycle I hear conservatives trot these out..... but doesn't the spending simply increase on different things? Has government shrunk sharply the past four years and I didn't notice?

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24 minutes ago, BoltBacker said:

Has government and it's spending gone down sharply in the past four years in your view?

I ask because every election cycle I hear conservatives trot these out..... but doesn't the spending simply increase on different things? Has government shrunk sharply the past four years and I didn't notice?

Government spending is out of control last 4 years .  Not sure if size of government has changed.  

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3 hours ago, McBokonon said:

I worked full time I went to college.  Wish I had free tuition.   Who exactly pays for "free" tuition though?  The colleges should charge way less, professors should make way less then we all could afford it.

 

Edited by Summer Wheat
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10 minutes ago, Summer Wheat said:

I worked full time I went to college.  Wish I had free tuition.   Who exactly pays for "free" tuition though?  The colleges should charge way less, professors should make way less then we all could afford it.

 

I don't think professors are making a ton of money.  I don't know where all fhs money goes - I think its new buildings, equipment, infrastructure, research, etc.  Plus administration, of course.

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14 minutes ago, Summer Wheat said:

I worked full time I went to college.  Wish I had free tuition.   Who exactly pays for "free" tuition though?  The colleges should charge way less, professors should make way less then we all could afford it.

Professors are overpaid?

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4 hours ago, stlrams said:

No issue with protecting environment but we need to understand cost (jobs, money etc).  I’ll give you a real example.  I live in ct which is a very liberal state dominated by the democrats for years.  In 2018, the state passed a law called 20% by 2020 which essentially said, the utility companies in our state must use 20% renewable energy by July 2020.  Great idea right.?  Everyone’s utility bills doubled...  why , the state only produces 12% renewable energy (10% from nuclear power plant which dems want to close) so utility companies had to buy green energy from others dramatically increasing costs.  The state did nothing to achieve this goal arbitrarily set by them.  Now they want to pass another law that’s 40% by 2040.  That there is the definition of government doing more damage the good.  I had a $500 electricity bill...

Yep and CA is even worse with this type of stuff, with NY not far behind. It's still mind boggling how the MTA (NY transit) was in financial crisis well before the pandemic. It's like someone hands a group of useless bureaucrats a giant machine that collects money and they find a way to lose $10B with it. 

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Observation:

Two of the most popular threads here are the "The Biden Years - Every day something more shocking than the last!!" and ""The Trump Years - Every day something more shocking than the last!!"

They both are just opportunities for people from the "other" side to post negative. 

They both suck. 

I'm locking both. If we can't operate a forum where we discuss real stuff and don't just rush to our dedicated thread every time we have something negative to post, we won't have a forum.

If it sounds like I'm at the end of the rope on the bickering, that would be accurate. Be 100 times more cool or find a new forum. 

And I apologize to the handful of Trump supporters we have here. I should have closed the Trump thread a long time ago. 

Edited by Joe Bryant
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