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I'm still undecided.


Mr.Pack

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10 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

We all have our own process and right to do vote how we want, so I’m in no way criticizing your process.  But I don’t understand how or why one can/would do the bolded.  The POTUS is far more then just policies or issues, that’s only a portion of their job (and arguably a small one).   

Because what they do (and what they influence to get done) affects me far more than what they say or how they behave. 

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4 minutes ago, Stoneworker said:

Because what they do (and what they influence to get done) affects me far more than what they say or how they behave. 

Does it bother you or concern you that what they say or how they behave may negatively affect others?

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2 hours ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

This is my plan.

For the first time since I was old enough to vote I’m passing

Neither of these candidates or parties deserve my vote imo

Its sad, but I’m good with it

Funny, me and my good friend, both in our late 40's, are the exact opposite. First time voters to avoid any complicit endorsement of Trump.

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4 hours ago, BoltBacker said:

This.

Haven't talked to a single Democrat that was undecided. "Undecided" is just code for "Libertarian" which is just code for "I vote Republican, but I don't want to defend anything that Repbulican politicians do. Ever.".

He "saved" 2 MILLION people. JFC.

Nonsense.  No one who knows me in real life would even think of calling me a Republican (or a Democrat, for that matter).  I know some like to think that everyone deep down really is a Democrat or a Republican, but it's not reality. 

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3 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Nonsense.  No one who knows me in real life would even think of calling me a Republican (or a Democrat, for that matter).  I know some like to think that everyone deep down really is a Democrat or a Republican, but it's not reality. 

No, it’s not true that everybody is a D or an R but one couldn’t possibly be undecided about Trump at this point unless they were a Republican philosophically. The idea of being undecided about the most polarizing American in....forever (??) is preposterous. 

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3 minutes ago, Capella said:

No, it’s not true that everybody is a D or an R but one couldn’t possibly be undecided about Trump at this point unless they were a Republican philosophically. The idea of being undecided about the most polarizing American in....forever (??) is preposterous. 

Okay, but undecided about Trump is not the same as undecided in regards to this election.

I think Trump is vile and there is 0% he is getting my vote.  I am not undecided about Trump.

I am still undecided on Biden, however.  As I said earlier in this thread, if I vote for him or not will likely be a gut decision the day I vote.  It is possible I won't vote for anyone for president. 

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4 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Okay, but undecided about Trump is not the same as undecided in regards to this election.

I think Trump is vile and there is 0% he is getting my vote.  I am not undecided about Trump.

I am still undecided on Biden, however.  As I said earlier in this thread, if I vote for him or not will likely be a gut decision the day I vote.  It is possible I won't vote for anyone for president. 

Well not to sound that guy, and god I hate what I’m about to say because I think we should have 4 or 5 major parties and candidates, but in this case this year not voting for Biden is maybe not supporting trump but it’s not helping to get rid of the problem either. 
 

Typically I get it. The two party system sucks and Biden is nobody’s idea of a dream candidate but this doesn’t seem like the year for it. 

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3 minutes ago, Capella said:

Well not to sound that guy, and god I hate what I’m about to say because I think we should have 4 or 5 major parties and candidates, but in this case this year not voting for Biden is maybe not supporting trump but it’s not helping to get rid of the problem either. 
 

Typically I get it. The two party system sucks and Biden is nobody’s idea of a dream candidate but this doesn’t seem like the year for it. 

I already went over this earlier in the thread with another poster.  :)

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13 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

I already went over this earlier in the thread with another poster.  :)

Yea I don’t really care to do it bc it’s not a stance I believe in generally, the system we have sucks.  If you despise Trump enough people will suck it up and vote for Biden. If not, they won’t. 

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9 hours ago, Capella said:

Yea I don’t really care to do it bc it’s not a stance I believe in generally, the system we have sucks.  If you despise Trump enough people will suck it up and vote for Biden. If not, they won’t. 

Versus getting all worried about how things will shake out, this is kind of my new mantra - I'm convinced that there's more adults who don't support Trump than there are that support him.  Probably by a large margin.  If they can't be bothered to vote the guy out then they probably deserve him.

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4 hours ago, AAABatteries said:

Versus getting all worried about how things will shake out, this is kind of my new mantra - I'm convinced that there's more adults who don't support Trump than there are that support him.  Probably by a large margin.  If they can't be bothered to vote the guy out then they probably deserve him.

Yup. It’s a very cut and dried election. Either you want the guy out or you don’t. The prospect of a third party candidate simply is not viable right now. 

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6 hours ago, GROOT said:

To be fair, you are voting for Kamala, not Biden. Biden won't last 4 years.

This seems to be common sentiment among Trump supporters, but I don't think it's shared among the majority of the electorate.

I'd say the chance Biden doesn't complete his first term is about the same as any other president, roughly 10-15% . Although he seems healthy, maybe can add another 5% because he is old. Final answer: 20%

What do you think?

 

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5 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

This seems to be common sentiment among Trump supporters, but I don't think it's shared among the majority of the electorate.

I'd say the chance Biden doesn't complete his first term is about the same as any other president, roughly 10-15% . Although he seems healthy, maybe can add another 5% because he is old. Final answer: 20%

What do you think?

 

More importantly, how is it much different than Trump finishing?

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4 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

More importantly, how is it much different than Trump finishing?

Yeah, if he loses, it will be interesting to follow his final months in office.

I think it’s nearly certain he’ll contest the election results, but once that fails, what next? Resign to be pardoned, scorched earth to poison Biden/Democrats, or some combination of the two? Or rush some other Trumpian agenda while the Senate majority remains Republican?

Sadly, I think a “normal” transition is the least likely outcome. 

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24 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

This seems to be common sentiment among Trump supporters, but I don't think it's shared among the majority of the electorate.

I'd say the chance Biden doesn't complete his first term is about the same as any other president, roughly 10-15% . Although he seems healthy, maybe can add another 5% because he is old. Final answer: 20%

What do you think?

 

I've never seen a President drift and lose his train of thought like Biden

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21 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

Yeah, if he loses, it will be interesting to follow his final months in office.

I think it’s nearly certain he’ll contest the election results, but once that fails, what next? Resign to be pardoned, scorched earth to poison Biden/Democrats, or some combination of the two? Or rush some other Trumpian agenda while the Senate majority remains Republican?

Sadly, I think a “normal” transition is the least likely outcome. 

I meant, if Biden is at risk to not be healthy enough to finish 4 years because of his age, how is it much different for Trump if he wins? They are 3 years apart in age difference.

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Just now, gianmarco said:

I meant, if Biden is at risk to not be healthy enough to finish 4 years because of his age, how is it much different for Trump if he wins? They are 3 years apart in age difference.

Oh. I misunderstood you.  I thought you were talking about the chances Trump completes his term if he loses.

If he wins, I agree that Trump is no more spry than Biden, and likely in worse shape, even if you ignore the potential for covid sequelae.

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51 minutes ago, GROOT said:

I've never seen a President drift and lose his train of thought like Biden

Seriously?  Have you watched Trump, he gets just as distracted.  What are your odds on him finishing his term if reelected?  I agree Biden is old and not an ideal candidate, but he seems to keep himself in better shape than Trump.

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17 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Seriously low hanging fruit there.  Don’t blame you gianmarco for picking it.  

Biden voters admit he loses his train of thought, and isn't the most eloquent speaker even without the stutter. I've seen Trump supporters acknowledge he's an ###, but not question his equally poor communication skills. Just like the free pass for incessant lying, it's hard to understand why loyalists are so willing to overlook his abundant faults.

 

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29 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

Just like the free pass for incessant lying, it's hard to understand why loyalists are so willing to overlook his abundant faults.

If you figure that out write a book, millions of dollars would follow.  I’d certainly buy it.  

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9 hours ago, yak651 said:

Seriously?  Have you watched Trump, he gets just as distracted.  What are your odds on him finishing his term if reelected?  I agree Biden is old and not an ideal candidate, but he seems to keep himself in better shape than Trump.

Trump can talk for 8 hours straight. Biden crumbles in 5 minutes.

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11 hours ago, GROOT said:

I've never seen a President drift and lose his train of thought like Biden

 

54 minutes ago, GROOT said:

Trump can talk for 8 hours straight. Biden crumbles in 5 minutes.

Not what you said. You made a statement and got replies based on that statement. Don't move goalposts. 

And no, Biden doesn't "crumble in 5 minutes".

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On 10/23/2020 at 9:14 PM, Stoneworker said:

Because what they do (and what they influence to get done) affects me far more than what they say or how they behave. 

I am definitely the opposite.

I guess I very simplistically view primary roles of congress and president as

-  Congress - these people decide the laws, important for them to have very strong opinions that align with their constituents and to fight for their point of view, to argue / convince the other side, negotiate, compromise, etc. to get the best laws that represent what the people of our country want and need - when electing congress representatives, I think it is very important they believe in what I believe, and want to get done what I want to get done

- President - should be the chief executive, the person ensuring the process is fair and everything runs smoothly, they should not be making all of the decisions and really best if they don't  impose their opinions at all but rather should work to ensure the best people are in charge of all aspects of the country and defer to their expertise, encourage compromise, represent all Americans, unite all of us as a nation that we can be proud to be a part of - so when electing the President, I don't care about their personal policy beliefs at all, but instead focus on their ability to lead, their ability to unite, and it is vital their behavior is something our children can look up to and emulate, something the world can respect

I don't care if the president is pro-life or pro-choice, or for open borders or closed borders, or for universal healthcare or not, etc. Let my congresspeople represent my interests on those topics. Give me a president that is a leader, a uniter, someone I can point to and be proud to call our president. Is that too much to ask? 

 

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The Union Leader , a conservative paper in New Hampshire, endorse their first Democrat for President* in their 100 year history.

* While Joe Biden is the clear choice for president, it would be a disservice to the country to send him to the White House without a backstop. We suggest splitting the ballot and electing a healthy dose of GOP senators and representatives. The best governance often comes through compromise. The civility of the Biden administration will help foster such compromise, but a blue wave would be nearly as disastrous for this country as four more years of Trump. It would result in a quagmire of big government programs that will take decades to overcome.

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15 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

The Union Leader , a conservative paper in New Hampshire, endorse their first Democrat for President* in their 100 year history.

* While Joe Biden is the clear choice for president, it would be a disservice to the country to send him to the White House without a backstop. We suggest splitting the ballot and electing a healthy dose of GOP senators and representatives. The best governance often comes through compromise. The civility of the Biden administration will help foster such compromise, but a blue wave would be nearly as disastrous for this country as four more years of Trump. It would result in a quagmire of big government programs that will take decades to overcome.

I'm in ideological agreement with this, but this GOP showed throughout this decade that compromise is a 4 letter word. Blow them out then come back later this decade with representation that will actually do that - compromise.

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Undecided as well.....

I hate both options.  I hate trump's narcissistic behavior.  He is a poor leader, who does not bring people together.  He ####s all over common decency.....at times, he does spew forth truth.... ultimately, the abuse of executive power, and the demagoguery, really turn me off.

As for the Dems and their identity politics, pandering to minorities, pandering to young people with offers of freebies, etc....Biden/Harris does nothing for me.

I wish we had had a viable 3rd choice......yet here we are....

 

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9 hours ago, Manster said:

Undecided as well.....

I hate both options.  I hate trump's narcissistic behavior.  He is a poor leader, who does not bring people together.  He ####s all over common decency.....at times, he does spew forth truth.... ultimately, the abuse of executive power, and the demagoguery, really turn me off.

As for the Dems and their identity politics, pandering to minorities, pandering to young people with offers of freebies, etc....Biden/Harris does nothing for me.

I wish we had had a viable 3rd choice......yet here we are....

 

Amen to this.  I still can't believe that, in 2020, these are the two candidates the two major parties are giving to us.

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9 hours ago, Manster said:

Undecided as well.....

I hate both options.  I hate trump's narcissistic behavior.  He is a poor leader, who does not bring people together.  He ####s all over common decency.....at times, he does spew forth truth.... ultimately, the abuse of executive power, and the demagoguery, really turn me off.

As for the Dems and their identity politics, pandering to minorities, pandering to young people with offers of freebies, etc....Biden/Harris does nothing for me.

I wish we had had a viable 3rd choice......yet here we are....

 

A viable third choice would be nice...a real viable 2 choices would be great.  

My question is I hear these things alot...and its usually a proclamation about the left.  Do you see the right doing these same things?

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24 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

A viable third choice would be nice...a real viable 2 choices would be great.  

My question is I hear these things alot...and its usually a proclamation about the left.  Do you see the right doing these same things?

Not really.  I mean the right has its own fear mongering to a point, but for the most part, I think your average conservative is pretty much beyond the identity stuff.  It's a tactic used by the left to rile up their base.....and it works quite well

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5 minutes ago, Manster said:

Not really.  I mean the right has its own fear mongering to a point, but for the most part, I think your average conservative is pretty much beyond the identity stuff.  It's a tactic used by the left to rile up their base.....and it works quite well

I highly disagree.  I think Trump has very much been using identity politics to strengthen his base.  And there isn't a politician out there who doesn't pander to one group or another offering things and freebies.  Just think its laughable to claim that isn't something used by either party.

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10 minutes ago, Manster said:

Not really.  I mean the right has its own fear mongering to a point, but for the most part, I think your average conservative is pretty much beyond the identity stuff.  It's a tactic used by the left to rile up their base.....and it works quite well

Yep but I sense a whataboutism coming soon

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25 minutes ago, Manster said:

Not really.  I mean the right has its own fear mongering to a point, but for the most part, I think your average conservative is pretty much beyond the identity stuff.  It's a tactic used by the left to rile up their base.....and it works quite well

Yes, Donald Trump doesn’t do identity politics. :mellow: 

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7 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

Ok @Mr.Pack it’s been fun here, I’ve spoken with the pro Trump congregation and here is the closing argument to jump on the Trump train. It’s timely and scary accurate. 

https://twitter.com/jackposobiec/status/1322361579766243329?s=21

scary accurate and Jack Posobiec don't really belong in the same sentence.

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