Charlie Steiner
Footballguy
Thanks for providing evidence to my point about the depth of the show. FWIW, I used to have an alias on another FF board: Izzy Mandlebaum.
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The Great 2020 All Time Television Draft: The Simpsons is judged the greatest show of all time (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Charlie Steiner
Footballguy
You're not wrong; ranking in the top 10 all time is an accomplishment, but if any comedies rank higher, you're going to have to show your math.
timschochet
Footballguy
Greatest Shows of All Time
27 Pts Saturday Night Live
Hardest show for me to rank. Positives are it’s the greatest live show ever, with extraordinary longevity, a cast of stars that by sheer numbers puts every other show on this list to shame. It’s consistently relevant; it has replaced the newspaper cartoon as arguably the greatest and most effective form of political satire in our nation’s history.
Negatives are that it’s humor is consistently hit or miss and often mediocre. In fact, I can’t recall ever watching an entire episode of this show without some forgettable skits that really weren’t worth watching. Obviously, as in the case of Jeopardy! and The Carol Burnett Show, it’s also really difficult to compare this sort of program to a fictional comedy or drama series. In any case after giving all of the above due consideration, SNL arrives at #8 on the list.
27 Pts Saturday Night Live
Hardest show for me to rank. Positives are it’s the greatest live show ever, with extraordinary longevity, a cast of stars that by sheer numbers puts every other show on this list to shame. It’s consistently relevant; it has replaced the newspaper cartoon as arguably the greatest and most effective form of political satire in our nation’s history.
Negatives are that it’s humor is consistently hit or miss and often mediocre. In fact, I can’t recall ever watching an entire episode of this show without some forgettable skits that really weren’t worth watching. Obviously, as in the case of Jeopardy! and The Carol Burnett Show, it’s also really difficult to compare this sort of program to a fictional comedy or drama series. In any case after giving all of the above due consideration, SNL arrives at #8 on the list.
Corporation
Angry Bovine
Well get your calculator ready because Cheers and The Simpsons have yet to be ranked. Cheers and Seinfeld are kind of like the Jordan - LeBron debate, you can make good arguments on either side. Gonna have to break out a slide rule to figure out the Simpsons (as good as it is) ranking higher.You're not wrong; ranking in the top 10 all time is an accomplishment, but if any comedies rank higher, you're going to have to show your math.
I think I Love Lucy is also unranked to date which is an even bigger travesty but I know it's Timmy's pick and is his favorite so there is that.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
there is NO comparison and i have fought the underanking of Cheers in this very thread. Cheers/Seinfeld is more the Dr J/Jordan of sitcoms - one opened up the possibiilities of the game and the follower realized them.
i would have SNL #1 (who led the American zeitgreist for 40 yrs before somehow getting both senile & juvenile at the same time) and Seinfeld #2 in this cat, because they are the best writing in a writer's medium. creating anti-heroes a generation after it was done best is no achievement - its just that David Chase discovered that they worked even better in episodic story arcs.
btw, i know why mr timmy ranked both shows behind Simpsons (yet watch him lord Simpson25 over SNL45) and Cheers - too Yiddish. might even be a rabid Anti-Dentite as well, for all i know...
Charlie Steiner
Footballguy
No argument that it belongs above Seinfeld and despite its 'variety' label it's a comedy as well. I would have had a tough time not ranking this at the top for the reasons you mentioned; it has hit every note and done what few shows have been able to do--all while doing it live--as well as moving the needle forward in the culture. I will also grudgingly agree about its accomplishments in the political satire arena, though to me most of it came about simply due to the sheer volume of material they've thrown at the wall compared to what stuck. The biggest feather in the show's cap, to me, is the bringing into the mainstream of female and African-American comedy voices. There were singular examples before SNL to be sure, but I'm also talking about the Larraine Newmans, Garrett Morrises, Tim Meadowses and Molly Shannons, who usually had more peripheral roles but were also able to shine as bright as any of their castmates when given the chance.
Charlie Steiner
Footballguy
My real 'beef' with Cheers is that it had a 'formula' for its characters to it that reminded me too much of Taxi, and then Friends years later, which I attributed to James L. Brooks' heavy involvement in the first two and shadow over the last. It was a distraction to me, as I would compare Carla to Louie DePalma, Tony Banta to Joey Tribiani, etc. and felt like they were just variations on a theme. I concede that's an incomplete view, but that's where my head was back when these shows were on. I do like the Dr. J to Jordan comparison, though Dr. J is still my favorite all-time player, whereas I like Seinfeld better than Cheers. Go figure.
timschochet
Footballguy
Greatest Shows of All Time
30 Pts I Love Lucy
This was my pick, and I won’t apologize for its placement. I believe there are 5 live action situation comedies that rise above the rest in the history of television. Those 5 are, in order of excellence: Cheers, I Love Lucy, Seinfeld All In the Family, MASH.
Lucy is really 1b to Cheers 1a. I see it as that close. It’s also very close to Seinfeld- these three shows are clearly above the other two I mentioned. But I rank Lucy slightly higher than Seinfeld because while it’s equally excellent television, I think Lucy had a more significant impact on American culture.
33 Pts Cheers
Normally I would wait for a separate post for this ranking, but in this case I might as well because I’ve already compared it to Seinfeld and Lucy. I think this is the greatest live sitcom ever. But should it be considered the greatest show ever?
In order to prepare these rankings I have read most of two fine books: TV The Book (itself a ranking of the 100 greatest shows in television history) and The Platinum Age of Television (an overview of TV since the coming of cable). I have not relied on the evaluations of either book but I have followed certain arguments made and let them influence my thinking. TV The Book argues that Cheers should seriously be considered the greatest TV show of all time because it’s the sum of everything great that appeared on TV up to that point. Which I would agree with- obviously the issue is the shows that came after.
I also, in terms of evaluating Cheers, believe that the seasons without Diane were not as good as the seasons with Diane, which very slightly weakens the overall quality of the show.
30 Pts I Love Lucy
This was my pick, and I won’t apologize for its placement. I believe there are 5 live action situation comedies that rise above the rest in the history of television. Those 5 are, in order of excellence: Cheers, I Love Lucy, Seinfeld All In the Family, MASH.
Lucy is really 1b to Cheers 1a. I see it as that close. It’s also very close to Seinfeld- these three shows are clearly above the other two I mentioned. But I rank Lucy slightly higher than Seinfeld because while it’s equally excellent television, I think Lucy had a more significant impact on American culture.
33 Pts Cheers
Normally I would wait for a separate post for this ranking, but in this case I might as well because I’ve already compared it to Seinfeld and Lucy. I think this is the greatest live sitcom ever. But should it be considered the greatest show ever?
In order to prepare these rankings I have read most of two fine books: TV The Book (itself a ranking of the 100 greatest shows in television history) and The Platinum Age of Television (an overview of TV since the coming of cable). I have not relied on the evaluations of either book but I have followed certain arguments made and let them influence my thinking. TV The Book argues that Cheers should seriously be considered the greatest TV show of all time because it’s the sum of everything great that appeared on TV up to that point. Which I would agree with- obviously the issue is the shows that came after.
I also, in terms of evaluating Cheers, believe that the seasons without Diane were not as good as the seasons with Diane, which very slightly weakens the overall quality of the show.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
If that's true it's only because Lucy has been around longer and for years it wasn't up against much competition.
In present day, I do not believe your statement is accurate. That's not to say your opinion on the rankings is invalid, I just don't see how we can take that statement as gospel.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Binged the entire series and went straight through and watched El Camino.
It did get better and Aaron Paul's acting went from 'ok' to amazing by the second season. Won't give any spoilers because people are still finding the show but the scene where WW finds Jesse and Jane zonked out and doesn't do 'something' that he easily could causing Jesse in a later scene to react. Jesse's raw reaction is one of the best scenes in the entire series and that is saying something.
Now that I've seen the entire series and can put things into proper perspective. I Have to point out THIS MONTAGE as one of if not the most perfectly edited scenes in TV history.
On the menu starting tonight.
timschochet
Footballguy
Greatest Show of All Time
36 Pts The Wire
This is the second show on this list I haven’t seen a lot of. I’ve watched exactly 9 episodes of the first season, that’s as far as I’ve gotten. I’ve tried numerous times and just couldn’t get into it. The ranking here is based largely on its reputation as one of the finest dramas ever. From what I’ve seen I have no reason to argue with that- certainly the acting and writing are superb, and the use of the term “Dickensian”- so often applied by critics, seems apt. It just isn’t for me- yet. I may try again.
36 Pts The Wire
This is the second show on this list I haven’t seen a lot of. I’ve watched exactly 9 episodes of the first season, that’s as far as I’ve gotten. I’ve tried numerous times and just couldn’t get into it. The ranking here is based largely on its reputation as one of the finest dramas ever. From what I’ve seen I have no reason to argue with that- certainly the acting and writing are superb, and the use of the term “Dickensian”- so often applied by critics, seems apt. It just isn’t for me- yet. I may try again.
Hov34
Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
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timschochet
Footballguy
I wanted to go there when I was in NYC but we couldn’t find it. It is a real restaurant apparently.
I may not get any soup, but I’ve got all the chocolates I can eat.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Hmmm. If this show had such an impact on American Culture that would have been obvious...hahaha
Charlie Steiner
Footballguy
I guess I have to show Tim's math for him...
Heads up against Seinfeld, I would say the main difference is their source of humor. Lucy got the broad laughs and while they were easier to get because TV was still mostly unexplored, that doesn't mean they came easily. The work the writers and Lucy herself put into ensuring they did what everyone else was doing only better and also things no one else had thought of attempting. By contrast, Seinfeld by necessity turned over rocks and found whatever comedy was hiding under them, which also takes the same kind of hard work and daring that Lucy had. Lucy ultimately gets the edge because of the broader appeal and relative simplicity of its comedy. Her bit with Harpo Marx is funny in its own right without having to know he and Groucho had done it before in their movie Duck Soup. Lucy didn't have to work on different levels and modern audiences don't need it to, either. It was well crafted, well acted and well executed. Because of Lucy, Seinfeld had to find its appeal in uncomfortable places, which it did exceedingly well, but it's still uncomfortable nonetheless.
As for Cheers, like I said in a different post, James L. Brooks' fingerprints on this, Taxi before it and Friends to a lesser extent after, are a distraction for me when it comes to this show. All of the characters had great moments (Coach was my favorite of all of them and had a couple of my favorites of the whole series) and the show had a loyal fanbase that was fully engaged in all the plots and subplots. Frasier Crane's evolution from one-note foil to getting his own spinoff show YEARS after being introduced is a testament to the depth and care the writers took. Despite all of its strong points, for me it was ultimately just another sitcom, albeit one of the better ones of its era, which was still an accomplishment to be sure.
Head to head with Seinfeld, I'd say Cheers has the edge in gravitas and pathos, but again I was still full up on those from Taxi, and many shows in that era were also going for those Taxi had done them so well. As strong as the secondary characters were on Cheers, they don't match the volume that Seinfeld had. Cheers had Cliff's mom, Seinfeld had Jerry's and George's parents, and even Kramer's mom etched her place in the show's legend by revealing his first name. Cheers was very good for what it was, Seinfeld was better. Cliff spectacular failure on Jeopardy wouldn't even crack George Costanza's top ten of humiliations. Seinfeld is simply better. Doesn't mean Cheers isn't good, just that it's not as good as Seinfeld.
It feels like I need to throw in an obligatory Seinfeld quote to put a bow on this package, but I try not to take obligations too seriously, so never mind.
Heads up against Seinfeld, I would say the main difference is their source of humor. Lucy got the broad laughs and while they were easier to get because TV was still mostly unexplored, that doesn't mean they came easily. The work the writers and Lucy herself put into ensuring they did what everyone else was doing only better and also things no one else had thought of attempting. By contrast, Seinfeld by necessity turned over rocks and found whatever comedy was hiding under them, which also takes the same kind of hard work and daring that Lucy had. Lucy ultimately gets the edge because of the broader appeal and relative simplicity of its comedy. Her bit with Harpo Marx is funny in its own right without having to know he and Groucho had done it before in their movie Duck Soup. Lucy didn't have to work on different levels and modern audiences don't need it to, either. It was well crafted, well acted and well executed. Because of Lucy, Seinfeld had to find its appeal in uncomfortable places, which it did exceedingly well, but it's still uncomfortable nonetheless.
As for Cheers, like I said in a different post, James L. Brooks' fingerprints on this, Taxi before it and Friends to a lesser extent after, are a distraction for me when it comes to this show. All of the characters had great moments (Coach was my favorite of all of them and had a couple of my favorites of the whole series) and the show had a loyal fanbase that was fully engaged in all the plots and subplots. Frasier Crane's evolution from one-note foil to getting his own spinoff show YEARS after being introduced is a testament to the depth and care the writers took. Despite all of its strong points, for me it was ultimately just another sitcom, albeit one of the better ones of its era, which was still an accomplishment to be sure.
Head to head with Seinfeld, I'd say Cheers has the edge in gravitas and pathos, but again I was still full up on those from Taxi, and many shows in that era were also going for those Taxi had done them so well. As strong as the secondary characters were on Cheers, they don't match the volume that Seinfeld had. Cheers had Cliff's mom, Seinfeld had Jerry's and George's parents, and even Kramer's mom etched her place in the show's legend by revealing his first name. Cheers was very good for what it was, Seinfeld was better. Cliff spectacular failure on Jeopardy wouldn't even crack George Costanza's top ten of humiliations. Seinfeld is simply better. Doesn't mean Cheers isn't good, just that it's not as good as Seinfeld.
It feels like I need to throw in an obligatory Seinfeld quote to put a bow on this package, but I try not to take obligations too seriously, so never mind.
timschochet
Footballguy
Greatest Shows of All Time
39 Pts Game of Thrones
Most TV critics don’t regard GOT in the top tier of greatest TV dramas- its usually the second or third tier. I disagree: not only was the show consistently excellent throughout its 8 seasons (yes, even the last season was great) but there are single episodes that are simply the best visuals ever to appear on television. I’m talking mostly about the battle episodes here: Blackwater Bay, Hardhome, the Siege of the Night Watch, the Battle of the Bastards, the final battle against the Night King, and the Bells- these are not only the best of television but perhaps the best live action scenes period including movies as well. Game of Thrones is the most epic visual presentation of all time. That doesn’t make it the best TV show of all time. Damn close though.
39 Pts Game of Thrones
Most TV critics don’t regard GOT in the top tier of greatest TV dramas- its usually the second or third tier. I disagree: not only was the show consistently excellent throughout its 8 seasons (yes, even the last season was great) but there are single episodes that are simply the best visuals ever to appear on television. I’m talking mostly about the battle episodes here: Blackwater Bay, Hardhome, the Siege of the Night Watch, the Battle of the Bastards, the final battle against the Night King, and the Bells- these are not only the best of television but perhaps the best live action scenes period including movies as well. Game of Thrones is the most epic visual presentation of all time. That doesn’t make it the best TV show of all time. Damn close though.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
I Love Lucy and Seinfeld is close. I think cultural impact is a good measure, but it does seem like dramas and comedies are being treated different in that regard. Seinfeld definitely had more cultural impact than Mad Men, but Tim said he would have rated Mad Men a lot higher (Mad Men was fine for what it was, but I haven't really wasted much thought on it since it left the air). I don't think The Wire or GoT have had that much cultural impact relative to Seinfeld either, or will have as much lasting impact either. So, I would have put Seinfeld much higher relative to those two. My two cents as just an impartial follower here, for whatever it is worth... which is zero cents.
timschochet
Footballguy
Greatest Shows of all Time
42 Pts The Sopranos
45 Pts Breaking Bad
I’m putting these two together because ever since I first considered this ranking it was always a question in my mind of which show was better. TV The Book spends about 50 pages on this question and ultimately decides that The Sopranos is a superior show because it is more complex, less linear, and leaves the viewer ultimately with more questions than answers- whereas in Breaking Bad everything is all wrapped up neatly in a bow at the end.
While I understand and appreciate this argument, and I get that so many people apply it to art of all kinds be it visual, music, or literature, I always seem to personally reach the opposite conclusion. I think linear is better because it’s more satisfying. I prefer my questions answered, the neater the better. Thus I am always going to prefer Rembrandt to Van Gogh, The Godfather to Citizen Kane, The Beatles to Pink Floyd, The Great Gatsby to Ulysses, and Breaking Bad to The Sopranos.
Or let’s put it this way: my ranking is because I know what happened to Walter White and I have no idea what happened to Tony Soprano.
42 Pts The Sopranos
45 Pts Breaking Bad
I’m putting these two together because ever since I first considered this ranking it was always a question in my mind of which show was better. TV The Book spends about 50 pages on this question and ultimately decides that The Sopranos is a superior show because it is more complex, less linear, and leaves the viewer ultimately with more questions than answers- whereas in Breaking Bad everything is all wrapped up neatly in a bow at the end.
While I understand and appreciate this argument, and I get that so many people apply it to art of all kinds be it visual, music, or literature, I always seem to personally reach the opposite conclusion. I think linear is better because it’s more satisfying. I prefer my questions answered, the neater the better. Thus I am always going to prefer Rembrandt to Van Gogh, The Godfather to Citizen Kane, The Beatles to Pink Floyd, The Great Gatsby to Ulysses, and Breaking Bad to The Sopranos.
Or let’s put it this way: my ranking is because I know what happened to Walter White and I have no idea what happened to Tony Soprano.
timschochet
Footballguy
Greatest Show of All Time
And the winner is...
48 Pts The Simpsons
So this was a surprise to me. I’ve spent weeks trying to decide which drama would be number one. I really didn’t consider where I’d slot The Simpsons, somewhere below with the other comedies.
Then I read the two books I’ve mentioned earlier: TV: The Book and The Platinum Age of Television. Both books make a strong and compelling case for The Simpsons as the greatest show of all time. TV the Book offers up an example of The Simpsons’ unique brilliance:
The Season 4 Finale “Krusty Gets Cancelled” for instance, contains a send up of 1970s game shows, the supposed “newsman as celebrity”, Arnold Schwarzenegger’s attempts to remake himself through comedy in the early 90s, the 1980s craze for comedies about nerds, and the same episode also contains references to Judy Collins, Joey Bishop, Elvis Presley’s 1968 Comeback special, Howdy Doody, Cold War Eastern European animation, Johnny Carson, the Doors, and Bette Midler.
All contained in one episode. Amazing and unrivaled creatively. I was forced to keep revising my rankings moving up this show until I realized that ultimately I had to throw out my rule that dramas are more important than comedies, and throw out my other rule that all the best television comes largely from 21st century cable networks, and call The Simpsons what it is: the best show of all time.
And the winner is...
48 Pts The Simpsons
So this was a surprise to me. I’ve spent weeks trying to decide which drama would be number one. I really didn’t consider where I’d slot The Simpsons, somewhere below with the other comedies.
Then I read the two books I’ve mentioned earlier: TV: The Book and The Platinum Age of Television. Both books make a strong and compelling case for The Simpsons as the greatest show of all time. TV the Book offers up an example of The Simpsons’ unique brilliance:
The Season 4 Finale “Krusty Gets Cancelled” for instance, contains a send up of 1970s game shows, the supposed “newsman as celebrity”, Arnold Schwarzenegger’s attempts to remake himself through comedy in the early 90s, the 1980s craze for comedies about nerds, and the same episode also contains references to Judy Collins, Joey Bishop, Elvis Presley’s 1968 Comeback special, Howdy Doody, Cold War Eastern European animation, Johnny Carson, the Doors, and Bette Midler.
All contained in one episode. Amazing and unrivaled creatively. I was forced to keep revising my rankings moving up this show until I realized that ultimately I had to throw out my rule that dramas are more important than comedies, and throw out my other rule that all the best television comes largely from 21st century cable networks, and call The Simpsons what it is: the best show of all time.
timschochet
Footballguy
Greatest Show of All Time Rankings:
48 Pts The Simpsons
45 Pts Breaking Bad
42 Pts The Sopranos
39 Pts Game of Thrones
36 Pts The Wire
33 Pts Cheers
30 Pts I Love Lucy
27 Pts Saturday Night Live
24 Pts Seinfeld
21 Pts The West Wing
18 Pts Jeopardy
15 Pts The Office
12 Pts The Carol Burnett Show
9 Pts Star Trek
6 Pts The Honeymooners
3 Pts Gunsmoke
48 Pts The Simpsons
45 Pts Breaking Bad
42 Pts The Sopranos
39 Pts Game of Thrones
36 Pts The Wire
33 Pts Cheers
30 Pts I Love Lucy
27 Pts Saturday Night Live
24 Pts Seinfeld
21 Pts The West Wing
18 Pts Jeopardy
15 Pts The Office
12 Pts The Carol Burnett Show
9 Pts Star Trek
6 Pts The Honeymooners
3 Pts Gunsmoke
Zow
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
the biggest reason Simpson isnt #1 is that i dont think there would have gripes if it had been #16
Sopranos belong over BrBa because their creator made all these wondershows possible by recognizing that 50 years of television based on likeability was rubbish. life's defectives are an entire universe more interesting to follow, befriend, episodically. David and Seinfeld understood that - the reason the "greatest" finale of all time wasnt selected here is that their last crack @ Jerry, Elaine, Kramer, Costanza was a condemnation (comedy still hasnt got this right - 21C sitcoms give you weirdo but ask you to love instead of ridicule them) of what they were about, the theme of the show all along.
Chase took the same feeling out on his family of greed & death and drama was never the same. nufced
1. SNL. 2. Seinfeld. 3. Soparanos
Sopranos belong over BrBa because their creator made all these wondershows possible by recognizing that 50 years of television based on likeability was rubbish. life's defectives are an entire universe more interesting to follow, befriend, episodically. David and Seinfeld understood that - the reason the "greatest" finale of all time wasnt selected here is that their last crack @ Jerry, Elaine, Kramer, Costanza was a condemnation (comedy still hasnt got this right - 21C sitcoms give you weirdo but ask you to love instead of ridicule them) of what they were about, the theme of the show all along.
Chase took the same feeling out on his family of greed & death and drama was never the same. nufced
1. SNL. 2. Seinfeld. 3. Soparanos
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Zow
Footballguy
Yeah I can't really complain about my last place ranking.Gr00vus said:
If I had a do over on the draft I would have given more thought to the "overall" ranking the first couple of rounds rather than grabbing what I thought were sure-fire 16s (that wound up for me being in categories that didn't qualify as an actual show).
Gr00vus
Footballguy
The first 5, 6 seasons of GoT were definitely greatest show of all time stuff. Then the source material ran out, and the last two seasons were no where near the greatest show of all time. The net effect (for me) was where up to season 7 I'd have watched the whole series over again, now I can't be bothered due to it falling off so precipitously.
timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Again- some of the very best episodes: The Battle of the Bastards, the final fight against the Night King, the Bells- all occurred after the books ended. And these episodes were incredible television.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
They were visual (and aural) spectacles. But the writing was still poor (sometimes due to propping up the visual spectacle). You can't have flaws like that and be in contention for all time greatest show.
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Zow
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
So, who won??
AAABatteries
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Ok, so I did read the rest - honestly, overall it's not a bad job save the Seinfeld and Simpsons rankings. If you flip-flopped those two then it would be pretty good, IMO. No way an animated show is the greatest ever - just not possible in my view. And quite frankly, they haven't really broken much new ground in 15 years. To me, while the longevity is something to be admired, it doesn't add to it's profile in the GOAT discussion. And no way Seinfeld isn't top-3 or at worst top-5.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
krista4
Footballguy
Non-drafter and full-time kvetcher here, and I don't get the hullabaloo about Seinfeld. Seemed fairly rated except that Game of Thrones was way too high so it should have been below that. I also would have it higher than I Love Lucy and Breaking Bad, but that's personal preference.
The ones I'd object to are SNL (good argument for GOAT) and The Wire, which hilariously came in way below its drama rankings because tim "can't get into it." Personally I'd also have Breaking Bad lower, but that's merely personal preference.
No quibble with The Simpsons as GOAT even if it wouldn't be my top choice. The people who are arguing for cultural influence or quotability (seriously?) being important couldn't rate that any lower.
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Yo Mama
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
SNL I'm fine with as honestly, the worst of SNL may be some of the worst content on the overall list - along with some of the crummy ST episodes and quite frankly Gunsmoke. But I could see moving it up further for its historical significance.
rockaction
Footballguy
Count me among those who agree with the Simpsons rating. The best writing is satire, and it's king again in this countdown. Never has a show been so funny and so lethally serious all at the same time. Truly works of art.
Oh, and The Wire's first season was compelling television, as was The Sopranos, but the notion that the anti-hero is a new concept is actually a dated one.
And SNL has stunk for so long it can't possibly be up there. Just so nobody thinks that its topical humor is what turns me off, note that I think the Simpsons is the best show ever. wikkid had it right when he said it used to be the zeitgeist but now it's just senile and juvenile at the same time. It's puerile, and for adolescent, stunted minds.
My two cents.
Oh, and The Wire's first season was compelling television, as was The Sopranos, but the notion that the anti-hero is a new concept is actually a dated one.
And SNL has stunk for so long it can't possibly be up there. Just so nobody thinks that its topical humor is what turns me off, note that I think the Simpsons is the best show ever. wikkid had it right when he said it used to be the zeitgeist but now it's just senile and juvenile at the same time. It's puerile, and for adolescent, stunted minds.
My two cents.
Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
Right with you. I've watched a couple of the Treehouse of Horrors episodes, and that's about it. I can't stand Seinfeld, but it seems way better than The Simpsons.The Simpsons came out when I was in 7th grade. I must have watched it back then but I can’t honestly say I have watched an entire episode since then. I guess I just don’t get it. Cute show, but greatest of all time
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