The Great 2020 All Time Television Draft: The Simpsons is judged the greatest show of all time

[KarmaPolice 18,097]

9 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

My personal ranking

BB > Sopranos >> Wire

I say we let you do the final 3 then.  

[Zow 8,755]

8 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I say we let you do the final 3 then.  

And maybe you can rank The Leftovers? 😛 

[KarmaPolice 18,097]

19 minutes ago, Zow said:

And maybe you can rank The Leftovers? 😛 

[mphtrilogy 3,349]

91-20 Drama

ok here we go, only 2 pts separated the 3rd Place from 1st Place, so it really is all about the Judges roll, another 4 judges and these results would be different I am sure.. but they would probably still be the top 3 with just about everyone... maybe...

I'll leave it up to each Judge to explain what made them choose what they did, but here is my take for each one..

 

Starting with ...

 

Breaking Bad - (14 points)

110 Emmy Wins!   262 Nominations! 9.5 IMDB!   

No top scores cost this the win, three 2nd's and one third.  A fantastic show on all fronts, dense and compelling storytelling with payoffs that comes years later, incredible work by Cranston in this as well as the whole cast.  Gilligan set a new standard in writing and in-depth topic research.  Has the highest IMDB score in the group.  I am sure most if not all in this Draft has seen most if not all of this show.   An amazing series.  I gave this a 2nd place score.

Quote

Wiki Note: " A 2015 survey by The Hollywood Reporter of 2,800 actors, producers, directors, and other industry people named Breaking Bad as their #2 favorite show.[122] In 2016, Rolling Stone ranked it third on its list of 100 Greatest TV Shows of All Time.[123];  In 2013, Guinness World Records named Breaking Bad the highest-rated TV series of all time, citing its season 5 Metacritic score of 99 out of 100.[10][146];  Spun off BCS and a Breaking Bad Movie, 262 Nominations, and 110 wins."    

Judges Tally 15    14    15    15

 

 

[KarmaPolice 18,097]

That is what I was assuming.   I was hanging out mild hope with some of the rumblings in the thread of BB being the best, but I guess those people weren't the judges.   

 

[timschochet 35,011]

Just wanted to mention my favorite TV drama that wasn’t drafted in the 91-2020 category: Showtime’s The Affair. i found it brilliant and consistently excellent throughout every season. 

[AcerFC 4,873]

2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Just wanted to mention my favorite TV drama that wasn’t drafted in the 91-2020 category: Showtime’s The Affair. i found it brilliant and consistently excellent throughout every season. 

That was the one with Pacey and McNulty? My wife watched it.

[mphtrilogy 3,349]

91-20 Drama

The Sopranos (15 points)    

106 Emmys!    257 Nominations!  9.2 IMDB

My choice for top spot, this show changed Modern TV IMHO.  Sunday night appointment viewing, and the cultural aspect cannot be overstated. Incredible work by Gandolfini in this and rich storytelling by David Chase it all worked for me.  Two top scores by the Judges, but two 3rd place scores gets this edged out.  3rd highest IMDB score.  

Quote

Wiki Note: Maureen Ryan of PopMatters described The Sopranos as the most influential television drama ever. "No one-hour drama series has had a bigger impact on how stories are told on the small screen, or more influence on what kind of fare we've been offered by an ever-growing array of television networks." 257 Nominations with 106 wins     

Judges Tally 16    16    14    14

 

[mphtrilogy 3,349]

91-20 Drama

 

The Wire (16 Points)   2 Emmy Nominations, 9.3 IMDB

Chosen 1.01 in this Draft, and many consider this the GOAT for Drama, however, I've tried 3 times to get into the show, but still have not finished.  I represent the "I haven't seen the Wire yet but it's on my List" crowd.  Literally the only show in this 16 that I have not seen completely so I could not rank this 1.1, but I also refused to drop this lower than 3rd as this show is beloved by so many, so I listed it 3rd behind my Sopranos and BB.  If I recuse myself the average judges score would still stand.  There is a faction of us out there who haven't see it, but it's on the list!  

Two judges ranked this at the Top Spot, and one with a 15, and despite my 3rd rank Score, it edges out The Sopranos by one vote and BB by two votes.  The bold 1.01 choice paid off for this round anyway.   Has the 2nd highest IMDB score.  

Quote

 

Wiki Note: Despite unanimous critical approval, The Wire never won a single Primetime Emmy Award nor received any major nominations, except for two writing nominations in 2005 and 2008.    

Judges Tally 14    15    16    16

[mphtrilogy 3,349]

1991-2020 Drama Final Rankings

 

• The Wire 16
• The Sopranos 15
• Breaking Bad 14
• Mad Men 13
• West Wing 12
• Better Call Saul 11
• NYPD Blue 10
• ER 9
• 6 Feet Under 8
• House 7
• True Detective 6
• The Americans 5
• The Leftovers 4
• Law & Orde r3
• Ozark 2
• Northern Exposure 1

[AcerFC 4,873]

1 --Yo Mama--190

2 --Tolstoy--178

3 --Hov34--165

4 --jwb--156

5 --timschochet--153

6 --mphtrilogy--149

7 --AcerFC--148

8 --tuffnutt--147

9 --Gally Steiner--147

10 -KarmaPolice--144

11 -Zow--140

12 -Mrs. Rannous--137

13 -rick6668--129

14 -Doug B--115

15 -Pitchfork--111

16 -TripleLayne--104

[AAABatteries 25,264]

Here's my thinking on how I would ranks these 3

• Longevity is basically the same for all 3 so that's a wash
• Peak - all 3 had the highest of peaks but for me BB just didn't have much low - it was consistently high level and for me, burned bright until the very end
• Characters - I think Sopranos gets the nod here - fantastic, memorable characters that played their part throughout;  BB comes in 2nd here but the Walt, Jesse and Gus trio is better than any 3 from the Sopranos - to me the difference is the weak (IMO) female roles on BB and Walt Jr.;  the Wire has fantastic characters but I bump it down a little because of it being more ensemble and some of the best characters (Marlo) were not around for the duration
• Storyline - Wire wins here as it is so realistic (or what I think of as realistic);  Sopranos next - I'm a sucker for a good mob/mafia show or movie and this fits the bill but there was a small amount of suspension of belief needed;  BB - I almost never watched the show because the premise seemed absurd to me.  I still find it fairly absurd but once you get past that it is just fantastic television
• Acting - all 3 great, Tony Soprano may be the best character/acting job ever for me and Edie Falco was fantastic too.;  Cranston and the Gus/Mike duo puts BB next and I have the Wire last even though that's almost unfair as the acting in it was phenomenal too
• Re-watchability - BB wins this one going away;  I think I've watched it all the way through 3 times - I do skip some of the Skylar and Marie stuff;  Sopranos is next although in a rewatch I find myself skipping over all the Meadow/AJ stuff, most of the Carmela/priest stuff and I even kind of find the Dr. Melfi stuff a little tiresome;  I've yet to re-watch the Wire and I'm not sure I will any time soon.  I just don't feel compelled to
• Legacy - I think this one would have been close between BB and Sopranos with me probably giving the nod to the Sopranos but that was until Better Call Saul  - others may disagree but I think that gives BB a small boost - to have a spinoff as good as Saul is like a tiebreaker for me;  Sopranos next and Wire comfortably last on this one - there's little lore around the Wire, IMO
• Seasons - I truly felt like BB didn't have a down season and it just seemed to build.  Some may say season 4 was better than 5 but some of the best television ever was in season 5 of BB;  Sopranos really had a couple rough seasons or half seasons for me.  The Wire just had a flat boring season in season 4 (or was it 3?) - one of my biggest issues with it is they completely ignore some of the best storylines in seasons 3, 4 and 5.  If every season of The Wire was as good as 1 and 2 then I probably would consider moving it above Sopranos

Lots of rambling to get to BB > Sopranos >> Wire

 

[AAABatteries 25,264]

27 minutes ago, mphtrilogy said:

I've tried 3 times to get into the show, but still have not finished.  I represent the "I haven't seen the Wire yet but it's on my List" crowd. 

Not only was this me until I finally watched it all the way through but there's too many people on here and IRL that I've heard the same to rank it #1.  I almost never hear somebody say the same about BB or Sopranos. 

ETA - if Season 4 had been the first season of The Wire I doubt I finish the show.

Edited December 11, 2020 by AAABatteries

[Zow 8,755]

6 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Here's my thinking on how I would ranks these 3

• Longevity is basically the same for all 3 so that's a wash
• Peak - all 3 had the highest of peaks but for me BB just didn't have much low - it was consistently high level and for me, burned bright until the very end
• Characters - I think Sopranos gets the nod here - fantastic, memorable characters that played their part throughout;  BB comes in 2nd here but the Walt, Jesse and Gus trio is better than any 3 from the Sopranos - to me the difference is the weak (IMO) female roles on BB and Walt Jr.;  the Wire has fantastic characters but I bump it down a little because of it being more ensemble and some of the best characters (Marlo) were not around for the duration
• Storyline - Wire wins here as it is so realistic (or what I think of as realistic);  Sopranos next - I'm a sucker for a good mob/mafia show or movie and this fits the bill but there was a small amount of suspension of belief needed;  BB - I almost never watched the show because the premise seemed absurd to me.  I still find it fairly absurd but once you get past that it is just fantastic television
• Acting - all 3 great, Tony Soprano may be the best character/acting job ever for me and Edie Falco was fantastic too.;  Cranston and the Gus/Mike duo puts BB next and I have the Wire last even though that's almost unfair as the acting in it was phenomenal too
• Re-watchability - BB wins this one going away;  I think I've watched it all the way through 3 times - I do skip some of the Skylar and Marie stuff;  Sopranos is next although in a rewatch I find myself skipping over all the Meadow/AJ stuff, most of the Carmela/priest stuff and I even kind of find the Dr. Melfi stuff a little tiresome;  I've yet to re-watch the Wire and I'm not sure I will any time soon.  I just don't feel compelled to
• Legacy - I think this one would have been close between BB and Sopranos with me probably giving the nod to the Sopranos but that was until Better Call Saul  - others may disagree but I think that gives BB a small boost - to have a spinoff as good as Saul is like a tiebreaker for me;  Sopranos next and Wire comfortably last on this one - there's little lore around the Wire, IMO
• Seasons - I truly felt like BB didn't have a down season and it just seemed to build.  Some may say season 4 was better than 5 but some of the best television ever was in season 5 of BB;  Sopranos really had a couple rough seasons or half seasons for me.  The Wire just had a flat boring season in season 4 (or was it 3?) - one of my biggest issues with it is they completely ignore some of the best storylines in seasons 3, 4 and 5.  If every season of The Wire was as good as 1 and 2 then I probably would consider moving it above Sopranos

Lots of rambling to get to BB > Sopranos >> Wire

 

No way. Wire by far here. I think I've watched it through 4 times. 

BB's shock value goes away with subsequent viewings. 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Zow

[AAABatteries 25,264]

Just now, Zow said:

No way. Wire by far here. I think I've watched it through 4 times. 

BB's shock value goes away with subsequent viewings. 

Your 2nd comment is totally fair and I would have to agree.  We'll just have to agree to disagree on the first part - as much as I like most of it I really don't have a desire to watch The Wire again - I'd watch BB for a 4th time before revisiting it.

[mphtrilogy 3,349]

3 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Not only was this me until I finally watched it all the way through but there's too many people on here and IRL that I've heard the same to rank it #1.  I almost never hear somebody say the same about BB or Sopranos. 

ETA - if Season 4 had been the first season of The Wire I doubt I finish the show.

I'll get there someday, it's good to have goals...

[Dr. Octopus 16,992]

38 minutes ago, mphtrilogy said:

1991-2020 Drama Final Rankings

 

• The Wire 16
• The Sopranos 15
• Breaking Bad 14
• Mad Men 13
• West Wing 12
• Better Call Saul 11
• NYPD Blue 10
• ER 9
• 6 Feet Under 8
• House 7
• True Detective 6
• The Americans 5
• The Leftovers 4
• Law & Orde r3
• Ozark 2
• Northern Exposure 1

Ridiculously deep.

[timschochet 35,011]

All 3 shows will be in my greatest show of all time ranking, I would imagine (haven’t seen all the picks yet for that) so I will discuss them then. 

[Hov34 4,862]

28 minutes ago, timschochet said:

All 3 shows will be in my greatest show of all time ranking, I would imagine (haven’t seen all the picks yet for that) so I will discuss them then. 

Like a "best in show"?

Poodle always wins... 

[krista4 25,787]

Glad to see you guys got the top three right.    

[Uruk-Hai 7,621]

I would have had Saul & The Americans in my Top 3 (over The Wire & The Sopranos).

The best show I've seen that wasn't selected is Rectify. It was on the Sundance Channel, so it didn't get a lot of attention. I'm telling y'all: you should check it out. It may be too slow for some who want a bunch of bad-assed moments - it's more of a slow burn - but it's fantastic and has as good an acting ensemble as I've ever seen. The series is finished and it's only maybe 3 dozen episodes long, so not a ton of commitment.. 

[KarmaPolice 18,097]

I am curious to hear from the judges for that category:

How would Game of Thrones have fared in that drama category?

Was putting it in the horror a way to try to get maximum points for whoever drafted it?

[mphtrilogy 3,349]

19 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I am curious to hear from the judges for that category:

How would Game of Thrones have fared in that drama category?

Was putting it in the horror a way to try to get maximum points for whoever drafted it?

For me I don’t know if it cracks the top 4.  Last two seasons were a bit spotty and the last season was rushed.   Will be interesting to see how it holds up on a rewatch in a few years...

 

I also don’t think it’s horror so there’s that ...

[Yo Mama 4,821]

22 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I am curious to hear from the judges for that category:

How would Game of Thrones have fared in that drama category?

Was putting it in the horror a way to try to get maximum points for whoever drafted it?

I personally would have ranked it higher in drama than horror/supernatural.  I’d put it as #4 in drama, not a great fit in horror IMO. 

[krista4 25,787]

32 minutes ago, Uruk-Hai said:

I would have had Saul & The Americans in my Top 3 (over The Wire & The Sopranos).

My personal favorite top three would include Saul, too, along with The Wire and The Leftovers.

[Hov34 4,862]

I would have put Saul ahead of Sopranos.

1. Wire

2. BB

3. Saul

4. Sopranos

 

[Hov34 4,862]

41 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I am curious to hear from the judges for that category:

How would Game of Thrones have fared in that drama category?

Was putting it in the horror a way to try to get maximum points for whoever drafted it?

Could it backfire as judges not seeing it as a true Horror?  (or supernatural for that matter).

 

[mphtrilogy 3,349]

7 minutes ago, Hov34 said:

Could it backfire as judges not seeing it as a true Horror?  (or supernatural for that matter).

 

might have done pretty well in Action...

[Yo Mama 4,821]

91-20 female drama lead rankings are surprisingly consistent so far between the judges. 

[higgins 1,151]

2 hours ago, mphtrilogy said:

For me I don’t know if it cracks the top 4.  Last two seasons were a bit spotty and the last season was rushed.   Will be interesting to see how it holds up on a rewatch in a few years...

 

I also don’t think it’s horror so there’s that ...

The category is horror / supernatural -- you don't think it qualifies as supernatural? Oookay

[mphtrilogy 3,349]

3 minutes ago, higgins said:

The category is horror / supernatural -- you don't think it qualifies as supernatural? Oookay

Yep totally qualifies, forgot about the supernatural part of the category 

[KarmaPolice 18,097]

56 minutes ago, higgins said:

The category is horror / supernatural -- you don't think it qualifies as supernatural? Oookay

What % of the show would you say is supernatural? 

[KarmaPolice 18,097]

I guess probably higher than I originally thought in my mind.  My main focus was on the family drama, war, and politics.  But its not like there wasn't faceless assassins, red priests, and stupid Bran in the show.  

[AcerFC 4,873]

3 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I guess probably higher than I originally thought in my mind.  My main focus was on the family drama, war, and politics.  But its not like there wasn't faceless assassins, red priests, and stupid Bran in the show.  

Dont foget the fire sword guy. 

[KarmaPolice 18,097]

1 hour ago, AcerFC said:

Dont foget the fire sword guy. 

Wasnt he a red priest? 

Edited December 12, 2020 by KarmaPolice

[Zow 8,755]

4 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

I am curious to hear from the judges for that category:

How would Game of Thrones have fared in that drama category?

Was putting it in the horror a way to try to get maximum points for whoever drafted it?

I would have ranked it ahead of Northern Exposure, Law and Order, Ozark, House, the Americans, NYPD Blue, and maybe West Wing. So, middle of the pack for me. 

I'm pretty amazed that Fargo wasn't drafted but, again, this category was so deep.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Zow

[Zow 8,755]

1 hour ago, KarmaPolice said:

Wasnt he a red priest? 

I thought so. 

[jwb 2,455]

Drama rankings are really good. My pick (NYPD Blue) finished right around where I figured. Happy about that - it was a good show, but definitely a tier or two below the top ones.

I agree with the top 3, and The Wire as #1. It's the best overall show. When you think of all the fantastic characters, over so many different professions... even the smaller ones stand out. 

[jwb 2,455]

5 hours ago, Hov34 said:

Could it backfire as judges not seeing it as a true Horror?  (or supernatural for that matter).

As judge, I can tell you it's not going to be a surprise bottom tier finish (I mean, it's Game of Thrones, and it was excellent for most of its run) That said, this was one reason I asked for other's rankings.  

[Yo Mama 4,821]

Got an early start to the weekend and I’m already on my second run and Coke. Might get crazy and do a Friday Night Rankings After Dark later tonight as I watch the Lakers/Clippers. Might forget about it too. Let’s see what the night has in store. 

[Yo Mama 4,821]

2 hours ago, Zow said:

I would have ranked it ahead of Northern Exposure, Law and Order, Ozark, House, the Americans, NYPD Blue, and maybe West Wing. So, middle of the pack for me. 

I'm pretty amazed that Fargo wasn't drafted but, again, this category was so deep.

Fargo and House of Cards were both high on my list of undrafted for this category. 

[Hov34 4,862]

40 minutes ago, jwb said:

Drama rankings are really good. My pick (NYPD Blue) finished right around where I figured. Happy about that - it was a good show, but definitely a tier or two below the top ones.

I agree with the top 3, and The Wire as #1. It's the best overall show. When you think of all the fantastic characters, over so many different professions... even the smaller ones stand out. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDpvkwBBu6U

[simey 8,535]

7 hours ago, Uruk-Hai said:

I would have had Saul & The Americans in my Top 3 (over The Wire & The Sopranos).

The best show I've seen that wasn't selected is Rectify. It was on the Sundance Channel, so it didn't get a lot of attention. I'm telling y'all: you should check it out. It may be too slow for some who want a bunch of bad-assed moments - it's more of a slow burn - but it's fantastic and has as good an acting ensemble as I've ever seen. The series is finished and it's only maybe 3 dozen episodes long, so not a ton of commitment.. 

You recommended Rectify to me, and I thought it was very good. I watched it on Netflix.

[timschochet 35,011]

Wondering how Friday Night Lights would have fared? 

[Hov34 4,862]

3 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Wondering how Friday Night Lights would have fared? 

This is the problem with the categories - too many good shows from the past 30 years.  Not enough from the first 20 years.

[simey 8,535]

3 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Wondering how Friday Night Lights would have fared? 

That show did a great job casting the actors who played the high school kids. 

[Yo Mama 4,821]

17 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Wondering how Friday Night Lights would have fared? 

A sports category would have been interesting. Not sure if it would be deep enough. Would have given me a chance to take The White Shadow though. 

[Yo Mama 4,821]

22 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Wondering how Friday Night Lights would have fared? 

And to answer your question, I don’t see much on that list I would move below FNL. 

[Doug B 7,102]

18 minutes ago, Hov34 said:

24 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Wondering how Friday Night Lights would have fared? 

This is the problem with the categories - too many good shows from the past 30 years.  Not enough from the first 20 years.

That's why the "cable era" needed to be split from the "streaming era". Two 15-year periods -- or, really, even three 10-year periods -- would've allowed for a lot of quality to be tapped. But I do understand that a 60-to-70-round draft might have seemed like much.

[Doug B 7,102]

26 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Wondering how Friday Night Lights would have fared? 

Would've been so hard to place -- I mean, I picked Northern Exposure for Pitchfork, and it only got the one point, sure ... but it's still hard for me to say that NE was a dog-poop show and didn't deserve a nod. Friday Night Lights might have struggled to get 5 points.