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Am just so sad (1 Viewer)

Morton Muffley

Footballguy
TLDR: losing long-time friends over politics and bad manners (more the latter actually)

My wife and I are left leaning, Trump despising, residents of a wealthy Boston suburb and who mostly keep our opinions to ourselves.  I say "mostly" because my close friends on either side of the political spectrum (and I have several on each side) know how I feel and we have spirited albeit fruitless debates about our different beliefs.  Lately I have found myself occupying a very lonely no-mans' land between two very adamant and opinionated sides.  I write this NOT to stake out some moral high ground in the middle, but rather to emphasize the loneliness of being a left-leaning moderate in the current moment.   Anyway, that's not the point, but is the necessary background.

The point is that we had drinks & dinner tonight with two couples: one with whom we've been friends for 20 years, the other we have only recently gotten to know through these long-time friends. We knew that both of the other couples were likely Trump supporters, but they are lovely people who we simply disagree with on politics and with whom we have, for good reason, chosen to avoid the topic entirely.  They asked us our comfort with getting together tonight indoors and we informed them that with a live-in mother-in-law of 80 (who has multiple co-morbidtities) and a 51 year old brother in the midst of stage 4 prostate cancer that we are closely supporting, we didn't feel comfortable with indoor dining.  We told them that they should not change plans for us, but that given the aforementioned situation we were taking extra pre-cautions.  They said it was no problem and that they'd be happy to entertain us in the 60 degree outdoors.

We arrived at their home and walked to the back yard to find the 2 couples set up in the kitchen.  They said they'd be right out and we should get comfortable on the deck.  We did.  Moments later they joined us on the deck with a small bit of exasperation.  The wife we have known for 20 years went in for a usual hug and before my wife could react her husband sincerely chastised her with "hey, no touching...we talked about this."  The other two couples kept their distance from us but not from one another.  I appreciated it all and thought nothing of it beyond "different strokes for different folks as long as they respect our appraoch."

A few hours later, following several beers and some delicious pizza, my wife gave me the "we should go" sign.  It was earlier than I expected, but the temp was below 60 degrees now and a wind was kicking up - so I understood, or so I thought.  We packed up, elbow bumped goodbye and left.  It was a fun night.

UNTIL...I got in the car and my wife burst into tears.  While I had been outside, she had gotten cornered in the kitchen on her way to the bathroom. Covid was a hoax, didn't she know.  The hosting wife is a dental hygenist and "has had no problems.  I don't even wear a shield sometimes."  Other woman told my wife that the numbers are exaggerated and that "it's all political."   My wife told them that she/we felt differently and that she understood they had a different POV.  My wife was then told that "your side is the problem" at which point my wife retorted "the problem is real and it's less Covid than the lack of leadership addressing it.  In any case, I think we are done here."  My wife then returned from the bathroom and took her seat on the deck only to overhear the two women discussing how "she doesn't get it" and that she "needs to wake up" and how she's "over-reacting" and how "this social distancing is nonsense" and how they are "anti-mask."  All of this came pouring out through tears as we drove off.  

A few minutes ago I texted my male friend of 20 years to let him know what had transpired.  That I had a wonderful time until I learned that my wife was cornered and disrespected.  Not because they didn't share our political views (they never have and I don't care), but because of their inhospitality - their inability to respect OUR simple wishes, ones that they had agreed to in advance - and to not talk about us behind our backs when they couldn't convince my wife of the errors of our ways.  I thanked him for the evening and also told him that the current political situation was stressing everyone out and that our foreign adversaries were taking advantage of the current political situation and that I was saddened and disappointed to learn how the evening had progressed....that our friendship might be the latest casualty in this political battle.  I told him all this and I told him that his wife should not contact mine as I didn't think that would be well-received.  Best to let things cool down, I wrote.  I apologized for sending him a lengthy text with a request to "do nothing."   I offered him the opportunity for the two of us to connect without our wives if he had any thoughts, questions or other perspectives about the evening.  

Am writing all the above because I am 20% pissed and 80% really gd sad.  I don't even know why I'm sharing the above.  I don't know what I want...what I'm seeking from any of you.  I think I just wanted to share.  Am trying to process what might well be the end of a 20 year friendship.  This year sux.      

 
Just sad and awful. And, based on your story, you both did nothing wrong and have nothing to apologize for. You didn't potentially lose friends to politics. You lost "friends" due to lack of respect. And may end up being better off.

 
2020 has certainly tested all of us.  Sorry to hear about this.  I’m betting that cooler heads will prevail and 20yrs of love and respect will win out, it just might take a bit of time.  Best of luck.  
That's what I am hoping.  I had a previous long-time relationship that fell apart when his crazy girlfriend verbally attacked my wife and he failed to recognize her craziness.  Rather than force him to choose sides, we backed away.  8 years later we rekindled the relationship and have been good friends for the last 15 years.  Sometimes it's best to just back off and this feels like one of those times.  In this case I just felt like my friend who wasn't a witness and may never have known what transpired needed to understand why we may be taking a long hiatus

 
I try to avoid talking politics with friends, because it really is a personal choice of who or what to support. That's part of why I don't do Facebook anymore, nothing productive happens with politics involved.
Agreed.  I have a few longtime friends with whom I can discuss over beers without name-calling and hurt feelings and while we never convert anyone we do end up with a better perspective in the end.  With this couple we have always avoided any discussion of politics as it never seemed like it would end well.  She's always been a bit of a conspiracy theorist, so am not surprised we aren't aligned.  

I do feel like the respective bubbles do benefit from getting some perspective from someone on the other side who isn't racist/communist, greedy/stupid, heartless/naive.  Sometimes I am that person, other times they set me straight.  In any case, these were never those people.

 
Honestly these are the type of situations that are better to just avoid. Take your suspected political differences, add in a conflict that compounds it (COVID precautions), mix in alcohol and you’ll be lucky to avoid this type of results. The potential upside is an awkward night of trying to avoid pushing each other’s political buttons.

It’s the sad, depressing reality of 2020. I just wish the pandemic could have gotten the 9/11 treatment and brought the country together despite political differences. We seem to be well beyond that now and it’s best not to ask if a 20-year friendship can make it through because you don’t want to know the answer.

 
My father in law is just itching to rub a Biden victory in my wife's face.  The two of them go round and round about politics.  Started a little today as we saw them today.  I think we won't be seeing much of them this year at holiday time no matter who wins. 

 
Protecting the vulnerable members of your family is the right thing to do. It's also the best way to open the country, while balancing risks and benefits. 

I have 2 single female coworkers in their 50s, living alone, both with 2 parents in their late 70s, early 80s. Both of my coworkers cycle through COVID testing, visiting their elderly parents once or twice, then testing again before visiting.

At the hospital where I work, we had a case early on of a manager of a cleaning company getting  COVID, bringing it home to his parents, and all three died within a few weeks with COVID.  More recently, we had a 79 year old cognitively super normal research participant who drove 20 miles to her annual visit for an aging study in June and then died in early October after a 2 month battle in the hospital with COVID, likely after contracting it from her daughter in July based on the medical records. Lots of older Cuban Americans have died in the Miami area.  The majority of Cuban Americans I know are reluctant Trump supporters who take social distancing seriously. 

If you don't see such cases up close, you may be more likely to be skeptical of the dangers from COVID.

.

 
This sucks, and I'm sorry to hear that you and your wife are having to go through this.  The two of you sound like good folks who take a healthy perspective toward politics.  Unfortunately that's a rarer and rarer thing these days.  I'm hopeful that getting Trump out of office and replacing him with a moderate like Biden will help turn the temperature down on this sort of thing, but of course this problem isn't going to be fixed overnight.

 
I feel you MM. I'm in Hingham and our nanny is a huge Trump fan.  We try to avoid politics with her at all costs.  She's great with our kids but she just has to throw jabs in here and there.  This week my wife let her know that my son's kindergarten class sent out a reminder that anyone picking up or dropping off kids need to wear a mask.  She went off the rails saying that this is a huge conspiracy and that everyone is asymptomatic.  Mind you weeks prior to the covid outbreak here she was warning us about how real this virus is and to prepare..... but now it's a hoax.  What a weird time we are in. 

 
I feel you MM. I'm in Hingham and our nanny is a huge Trump fan.  We try to avoid politics with her at all costs.  She's great with our kids but she just has to throw jabs in here and there.  This week my wife let her know that my son's kindergarten class sent out a reminder that anyone picking up or dropping off kids need to wear a mask.  She went off the rails saying that this is a huge conspiracy and that everyone is asymptomatic.  Mind you weeks prior to the covid outbreak here she was warning us about how real this virus is and to prepare..... but now it's a hoax.  What a weird time we are in. 
Easier said than done, but sounds like you may need a new nanny. One, she works for you and shouldn't be making you uncomfortable in your own home and should keep her politics to herself. Two, if she's not taking the restrictions with masks seriously, she's potentially putting all of you at risk. Especially during her time away from you.

My $.02

 
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Easier said than done, but sounds like you may need a new nanny. One, she works for you and shouldn't be making you uncomfortable in your own home and she keep her politics to herself. Two, if she's not taking the restrictions with masks seriously, she's potentially putting all of you at risk. Especially during her time away from you.

My $.02
True but it is next to impossible finding good childcare these days in my area.  She really is great with the kids.  We've learned not to bring up politics and she doesn't either typically....I hear you about the risk though. It's not something we are unaware of.  We just really have limited options right now. 

 
Sorry to hear this, you should reconsider if these are truly friends if they talk to your wife that way. Maybe it was alcohol induced but still shows their true colors. We keep to ourselves but have weeded out many extreme Left types that try to force their views on people in the same manner. Better off without them, good people don’t let politics dominate their relationships. 

 
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It really sucks that you had to deal with that, especially for your wife. Hopefully it all cools over eventually and you all can move past it.

Everyone is just so GD wound up right now about everything I've been finding myself just laying low and avoiding anyone who has any level of interest in politics. I had a (democrat) family member who I've had a wonderful relationship with for 40 years lose it on me for making a joke about missing Bernie. I wasn't even that upset just realized that everything is just way overheated and it's time to step out for a while. 

 
That sucks to hear for sure, @Morton Muffley .  Sounds like you handled it as well as you could have with the text.  It sucks to see friendships crumble over this.  Sounds like a total lack of manners by the other wives.  Ugh.

 
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total lack of manners by the other wives.  Ugh.
that is sad, (i mean of course they were going to talk behind your wife's back, but to do so when she could, or likely would hear it, is awful and i would take it as an attack)  and so i can see why you and your wife would want nothing to do with them.

don't really see why you need to back off of friendship with the husband though.  didn't see where he did anything disrespectful.

 
that is sad, (i mean of course they were going to talk behind your wife's back, but to do so when she could, or likely would hear it, is awful and i would take it as an attack)  and so i can see why you and your wife would want nothing to do with them.

don't really see why you need to back off of friendship with the husband though.  didn't see where he did anything disrespectful.
he didn't.  indeed he was very much respecting our approach from the very beginning.  I think you'll see my approach i the text exchange I will post shortly

 
That sucks to hear for sure, @Morton MuffleySounds like you handled it as well as you could have with the text.  It sucks to see friendships crumble over this.  Sounds like a total lack of manners by the other wives.  Ugh.
well, not sure about the bolded because the response i received was not at all what I expected and I fear my text wasn't direct enough...either that or he didn't read it all...or maybe there was some tech snafu and he only received part of it...I don't know.  will post momentarily once I edit the names to protect all parties

 
I'm sorry you're having to deal with that @Morton Muffley

I think it goes without saying people and relationships are stressed more than they've ever been. Political stuff was enough but this feels like the perfect storm adding the pandemic to the mix. I bet I've talked to more people this year having unexpected trouble with marriages or kids or business relationships than I've heard from in the last ten years combined. A friend told me the requests from students at our local University of Tennessee requesting counseling or someone to talk to was off the charts compared to previous years.

I'm sure it doesn't help your situation, but I've seen a TON of nearly the exact scenario you laid out. 

With that said, a couple of thoughts.

I'm with you 100% in you always defend and take the side of your wife. Full stop. With you. But there is very often another side or a little more to the story. If what you described with the out of the blue 180 turn one sided attack and accusation is exactly how it happened, the other woman is a psycho and the relationship likely isn't worth salvaging. 

My guess is there's more to it. We often just don't know what can be going on with the other person. If they were courteous enough to ask about your comfort level eating indoors, that seems entirely appropriate. It's completely normal for someone who's normally a hugger to initiate a hug. It's also completely normal for someone now not comfortable with a hug to refrain. That all seems appropriate.

The talking behind their back is just life. That happens. Same as you can talk about them here or with your friends. I don't know the demographics of your social circle but I don't think of Boston as being deep red Trump Country. They likely are tired. It's one thing when I hear Pro Trump people say they can't handle the snark in this forum where it's so lopsided. But they can handle that and just stop visiting here (which they have). When it's your real life, it's more difficult.

What often happens is people just dig in. Which is not good. But it happens.

So my guess is your friends have done what anyone would do, they seek out people that DO think like they do and they consume media and inputs from people that reinforce that view and they commiserate. It happens on both sides. I'm guessing it's why you felt comfortable enough to post here as there are tons of people here who feel like you do. All that to say I guess is maybe it's worth trying to be empathetic to what your friends are feeling and see if there's more. And the bigger picture of EVERYONE is tired and sick of things. 

I find myself often on the outside in my real life as a Biden voting moderate in a town that is strongly Republican. It is what it is. 

For how to move forward, this is what I'D do if you asked me:

You have to evaluate the friendship. Some friendships aren't valuable to withstand the challenge of working through differences.

If this one is, I'd suggest being as open as possible and being honest and clear with your friends.

Basically you try to get clear on:

  • This is what happened to my wife.
  • This is how it made her and us feel. A key element here is this is NOT accusatory. This is how you understand and perceive the situation. I'd be shocked if they don't have a very different understanding. Unless they're pscyho.
  • We value our friendship and don't want to lose our friendship over this. 
  • Can you tell me how you understand what happened?
  • How did you feel about it?
  • Is it possible to reconcile this to where we can move forward?
The one thing I couldn't possibly stress strongly enough is avoid at all costs trying to do ANY of that via text messages. 99.9% of the time, that just goes poorly. It's why disagreements here often go so poorly. In my opinion, this has to be in person.

So if it were me, I'd do something like text (this one time) something to your friend and say you and your wife value your friendship and would like to talk about this. It might need time to chill but I'd also say AFTER the election, the climate will likely be different. I imagine no matter who wins, the winning side will be unbearable with the victory lapping. So if you don't do this in the next week or so, it'll likely be a while. 

Sorry for the novel there. But it's something I see happening way too often and I may be naive, but I don't think it has to be this way.

Good luck and best to you and your wife as you navigate this. 

 
Just curious, @Morton Muffley, did your friend text you back?
he did.  and as it wasn't anything that I expected i am simply going to let it lie at this point as I see no point in belaboring the issue.

anyway, here is my text to him (names changed):

[My friend Bob]

Thanks for tonight.  It was fun and I'm sorry I/we dominated the conversation (a too common occurrence that I always feel badly about in retrospect, but seem unable to self-manage in the moment).  Unfortunately, I need to let you know that [my wife Susan] didn't have as good a time as I had.  She felt cornered by [your wife Diane] on the Covid topic - something Susan didn't appreciate, but at least understood (everyone has different opinions and unfortunately those opinions have been high politicized).  Most disappointing is that Susan felt disrespected by the ensuing conversation between [other wife Kelly] and Diane that occurred immediately afterward in the kitchen that Susan overheard while sitting on the deck. We don't expect people to agree with our politics and as you know we have many dear friends and family members who are both left and right of us on the political spectrum.  So please understand, this isn't about politics.  This is about disrespect and impoliteness. Susan felt that our opinions (however others may disagree with our approach) were not respected and indeed were mocked behind our back...and that is extremely disappointing.  Am texting you so you understand, but would ask that you not share with Diane as I think any attempt by Diane to connect with Susan at this time would not be well received.  As such, am sorry to be writing this with an ask of you to "please do nothing," but honestly feel that is the best course of action at this time.  And please understand that I debated whether to send this text at all as I wondered what the point was of requesting inaction. But I decided that I thought you should know Susan and my feelings even as I suggest that doing nothing is best. Stress levels are high and we have an upcoming election that is about the 5th in my lifetime being touted as "the election to save America."  Everyone is tired of this friggin' covid and the resulting behavioral changes, everyone is tired of the political divisiveness from both sides (and fueled by our foreign adversaries who seek to take advantage of this divided moment)...and yet here we are: friends torn apart by the strain and politics of it all. Ok, that's enough poltical postulating for now.  Am open to finding time for the two of us to connect if any of the above is unclear...as I'm sure much of it may be.  Am truly sorry to be writing this text expressing our feelings of extreme disappointment.  And yet I feel you will understand and accept it in the spirit in which I intend it. Again, I had a lovely evening...UNTIL I got into the car and Susan burst into tears.  And I hate ending this text on that note as it reads so melodramatic and that isn't my intent.  My intent is to sincerely express that Susan and I had two different experiences tonight.  Anyway, sorry to unload on you like this, but I pride myself on being direct and so that's what you have here. Just my attempt to give it to you straight, which is how I think you'd prefer it.

Be well.

Jim

This morning I received a text message from him this morning, the entirety of which is:

No worries, we love story time with you guys.  Great to see you, been way too long.

That's it.  That's all he wrote.  Not what I was expecting, but as I wrote previously perhaps I was to indirect (I don't think so), perhaps he didn't read my text thoroughly, or perhaps he didn't receive my entire text (that can happen, right?)  In any case, am going to let it lie.  I sincerely contemplated not sending the text originally so following up seems more likely to be unproductive or worse counter-productive.

Thanks all for your support.  Really appreciate having a place to share and receiving so many thoughtful replies from (nearly) total strangers is strangely helpful.  Love to you all.

 
This morning I received a text message from him this morning, the entirety of which is:

No worries, we love story time with you guys.  Great to see you, been way too long.

That's it.  That's all he wrote.  Not what I was expecting, but as I wrote previously perhaps I was to indirect (I don't think so), perhaps he didn't read my text thoroughly, or perhaps he didn't receive my entire text (that can happen, right?)  In any case, am going to let it lie.  I sincerely contemplated not sending the text originally so following up seems more likely to be unproductive or worse counter-productive.
Man.  The whole situation is tough and heartbreaking.  It really is.  This is where we are right now as a country.  (related aside:  my mom and her sister are barely on speaking terms these days.......because my aunt is afraid that anything she says will set off my mom, about Trump and COVID, and my mom thinks it is all her sister's fault.  These are two aging women who used to speak by phone 4-5 times per week.   Ugh.)

First, Joe's advice was phenomenal.   It's just so easy to misinterpret texts.  And these are tough times for everyone, for so many reasons.  

Second, one thing I've learned the past few years is that fear often governs human behavior and reactions to situations.  Anytime I get disturbing or emotional reactions from people.....my first thought is "what is this person afraid of right now, in this moment?"   That includes your friends at dinner.....your wife in the car....your friend's text reply to you.

Lastly, perhaps someone gave your friend the same advice Joe gave you.  Don't try to settle disputes via text, it's too easy to misinterpret others via text.  Reading your friend's reply....I thought it was lovely.  Something a long time, true friend would send.   Someone who doesn't want to escalate when emotions are involved.  Someone who is afraid that if he wrote more.....it could be misinterpreted.  Or lead to escalation.

Tough situation.  You seem like a really thoughtful guy.   Deep breaths.   Don't let your own fears take over.  This too shall pass.

 
I'm sorry you're having to deal with that @Morton Muffley

I think it goes without saying people and relationships are stressed more than they've ever been. Political stuff was enough but this feels like the perfect storm adding the pandemic to the mix. I bet I've talked to more people this year having unexpected trouble with marriages or kids or business relationships than I've heard from in the last ten years combined. A friend told me the requests from students at our local University of Tennessee requesting counseling or someone to talk to was off the charts compared to previous years.

I'm sure it doesn't help your situation, but I've seen a TON of nearly the exact scenario you laid out. 

With that said, a couple of thoughts.

I'm with you 100% in you always defend and take the side of your wife. Full stop. With you. But there is very often another side or a little more to the story. If what you described with the out of the blue 180 turn one sided attack and accusation is exactly how it happened, the other woman is a psycho and the relationship likely isn't worth salvaging. 

My guess is there's more to it. We often just don't know what can be going on with the other person. If they were courteous enough to ask about your comfort level eating indoors, that seems entirely appropriate. It's completely normal for someone who's normally a hugger to initiate a hug. It's also completely normal for someone now not comfortable with a hug to refrain. That all seems appropriate.

The talking behind their back is just life. That happens. Same as you can talk about them here or with your friends. I don't know the demographics of your social circle but I don't think of Boston as being deep red Trump Country. They likely are tired. It's one thing when I hear Pro Trump people say they can't handle the snark in this forum where it's so lopsided. But they can handle that and just stop visiting here (which they have). When it's your real life, it's more difficult.

What often happens is people just dig in. Which is not good. But it happens.

So my guess is your friends have done what anyone would do, they seek out people that DO think like they do and they consume media and inputs from people that reinforce that view and they commiserate. It happens on both sides. I'm guessing it's why you felt comfortable enough to post here as there are tons of people here who feel like you do. All that to say I guess is maybe it's worth trying to be empathetic to what your friends are feeling and see if there's more. And the bigger picture of EVERYONE is tired and sick of things. 

I find myself often on the outside in my real life as a Biden voting moderate in a town that is strongly Republican. It is what it is. 

For how to move forward, this is what I'D do if you asked me:

You have to evaluate the friendship. Some friendships aren't valuable to withstand the challenge of working through differences.

If this one is, I'd suggest being as open as possible and being honest and clear with your friends.

Basically you try to get clear on:

  • This is what happened to my wife.
  • This is how it made her and us feel. A key element here is this is NOT accusatory. This is how you understand and perceive the situation. I'd be shocked if they don't have a very different understanding. Unless they're pscyho.
  • We value our friendship and don't want to lose our friendship over this. 
  • Can you tell me how you understand what happened?
  • How did you feel about it?
  • Is it possible to reconcile this to where we can move forward?
The one thing I couldn't possibly stress strongly enough is avoid at all costs trying to do ANY of that via text messages. 99.9% of the time, that just goes poorly. It's why disagreements here often go so poorly. In my opinion, this has to be in person.

So if it were me, I'd do something like text (this one time) something to your friend and say you and your wife value your friendship and would like to talk about this. It might need time to chill but I'd also say AFTER the election, the climate will likely be different. I imagine no matter who wins, the winning side will be unbearable with the victory lapping. So if you don't do this in the next week or so, it'll likely be a while. 

Sorry for the novel there. But it's something I see happening way too often and I may be naive, but I don't think it has to be this way.

Good luck and best to you and your wife as you navigate this. 
Thanks Joe.  Really appreciate the novella, sincerely.  FWIW, I noted previously that we live in a wealthy Boston suburbs not to brag, but because these suburbs lean republican.  So while we aren't deep red, they are redder than you'd likely imagine.  Indeed, I joked post-2016 that I knew enough Gary Johnson voters personally that I wasn't sure how he didn't take Massachusetts.  Anyway, NONE of that takes away from my complete agreement that I, too, am sure they are feeling isolated by media, friends, family, etc.  And that they had a different view of the events of the evening.  As you'll see in the text exchange I posted I also agree that trying to resolve things via text isn't ideal.  My approach was to give him some understanding of why we'd likely be pulling away.  Back story that I didn't share is that this is the second time my wife has felt disrespected by his wife.  That incident isn't worth going into here but we backed away (turned down social opps, refrained from extending them invitations to connect) and that left them a bitt confused and, I think, understandably hurt.  So we just haven't seen very much of them over the past 2 years (save for a couple of large scale gatherings like 50th birthday parties) and this was our attempt to try to rekindle something.  In retrospect, I should have seen that our choice of timing was poor.  

Anyway, thanks so much for your thoughtful reply @Joe Bryant.  I really appreciate it as I think you have a few more important things to be doing on this Sunday morning ;)

 
Sorry to hear this, you should reconsider if these are truly friends if they talk to your wife that way. Maybe it was alcohol induced but still shows their true colors. We keep to ourselves but have weeded out many extreme Left types that try to force their views on people in the same manner. Better off without them, good people don’t let politics dominate their relationships. 
We live in Canada.  We have one set of friends that are big Trump supporters and a little anti-covid.  They don't deny it as much as they think we are over-reacting.  The rest of the group are Canadian Conservatives, but definitely anti-Trump.  They have had us over a couple times, but everything has gone great.  We really don't get much into politics, and everyone in the group knows better than to bring it up.  I think it is a respect thing from both the host and the guests.

 
@Morton Muffley there’s nothing wrong with your text, maybe could have been shorter but if I was your friend I would respect it for sure. I think the short answer was him trying to not let the conversation progress to a bad place. I think the next step is let it lie like you said then I would take Joe’s advice from there and discuss the rest in person. When the times right play a round of golf and/or grab a beer. Safe to say we probably have very different political views but you handled yourself very respectfully here, don’t lose any sleep over it...give it some time to play out.  

 
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Man.  The whole situation is tough and heartbreaking.  It really is.  This is where we are right now as a country.  (related aside:  my mom and her sister are barely on speaking terms these days.......because my aunt is afraid that anything she says will set off my mom, about Trump and COVID, and my mom thinks it is all her sister's fault.  These are two aging women who used to speak by phone 4-5 times per week.   Ugh.)

First, Joe's advice was phenomenal.   It's just so easy to misinterpret texts.  And these are tough times for everyone, for so many reasons.  

Second, one thing I've learned the past few years is that fear often governs human behavior and reactions to situations.  Anytime I get disturbing or emotional reactions from people.....my first thought is "what is this person afraid of right now, in this moment?"   That includes your friends at dinner.....your wife in the car....your friend's text reply to you.

Lastly, perhaps someone gave your friend the same advice Joe gave you.  Don't try to settle disputes via text, it's too easy to misinterpret others via text.  Reading your friend's reply....I thought it was lovely.  Something a long time, true friend would send.   Someone who doesn't want to escalate when emotions are involved.  Someone who is afraid that if he wrote more.....it could be misinterpreted.  Or lead to escalation.

Tough situation.  You seem like a really thoughtful guy.   Deep breaths.   Don't let your own fears take over.  This too shall pass.
Thanks and sorry to hear about your situation with your Mom and her sister.  That's awful.  

And hanks for the thoughtful perspective. The fear angle/interpretation makes a lot of sense.  I have no doubt that my wife's side of the story is colored by her own fears and trepidations (i.e. the back story I just noted PLUS politics PLUS Covid PLUS alcohol PLUS normal day-to-day misinterpretations).  It's a lot.  

 
well, not sure about the bolded because the response i received was not at all what I expected and I fear my text wasn't direct enough...either that or he didn't read it all...or maybe there was some tech snafu and he only received part of it...I don't know.  will post momentarily once I edit the names to protect all parties
Based on his reply, I am not sure what to think. Seems like, given his short reply, that he wants to avoid any drama and just keep it all friendly and casual, making me think he is the sensible one in that relationship, but I'd have a hard time with a "friend" being that dismissive, for lack of a better term, about a situation that upset my wife that much. 

 
Not to stir the pot, as I said upstream I believe 20 years of friendship wins out, but your friends response is disappointing. I don’t expect a novella back but at least some quick acknowledgment along the lines of “yes sometimes these conversations can get passionate…“ to acknowledge your wife position and feelings.  I guess don’t read too much into it and give it space, but if you’re disappointed in the response I would understand that.  

 
Hey MM....outlined a similar story in the FFA version of this thread...you're way braver to bring personal stuff into these pointless PSF threads than I am, but I now have a MIL and wife not speaking to each other because MIL can't respect my wife's wishes when interacting with her grandchildren.

I say that to let you know you aren't the only one out there going through these things.  It sucks that masks and social distancing got politicized in this whole thing, but that's where we're at right now and people are letting it ruin relationships.  

 
Based on his reply, I am not sure what to think. Seems like, given his short reply, that he wants to avoid any drama and just keep it all friendly and casual, making me think he is the sensible one in that relationship, but I'd have a hard time with a "friend" being that dismissive, for lack of a better term, about a situation that upset my wife that much. 
Yes, he is definitely the more sensible and considerate one.   And he's also not one to get super-serious/deep about things (he's a guy's guy), so am not surprised that he would want to be casual and chill.  But still, the lack of acknowledgment of upset caused is both surprising and leaves me wanting.  Still, could be lots of reasons and as such am happy to just let it lie and see if it ever comes up again.  If they start texting us soon with "hey let's hang out again, last time was fun" at least I'll know that I tried to grease the skids for our forthcoming tepid responses and soft excuse-making (i.e. "sorry, can't. maybe next time" rinse. repeat.)

it's all good.  just weird and a little sad.

 
  I have no doubt that my wife's side of the story is colored by her own fears and trepidations (i.e. the back story I just noted PLUS politics PLUS Covid PLUS alcohol PLUS normal day-to-day misinterpretations).  It's a lot.  
This is a true Rashomon scenario. You have your wife’s  perspective, your friend has his wife’s version . Texting definitely wasn’t the ideal communication method

 
Not to stir the pot, as I said upstream I believe 20 years of friendship wins out, but your friends response is disappointing. I don’t expect a novella back but at least some quick acknowledgment along the lines of “yes sometimes these conversations can get passionate…“ to acknowledge your wife position and feelings.  I guess don’t read too much into it and give it space, but if you’re disappointed in the response I would understand that.  
your reaction matches my own: disappointed and a bit surprised.  gonna give it some space

 
Confronted with that wall of text, I’d seriously consider the value of the friendship. If I wanted to salvage it, I’d fire back a “when can we talk to clear the air” message, dreading the ensuing conversation. If I wanted it to die on the vine, I’d be curt and not encourage any more discussion. While I certainly can’t speak for your friend, he seems to be choosing the latter. Or he is caught in the middle between appeasing his wife and preserving your friendship.

All that being said, time heals all wounds. I suspect you can remain friends with your buddy, but the prospects of future couples activities aren’t great, especially if his spouse has been rude to your wife on multiple occasions. 

Sorry you had to go through that, but firmly entrenched in middle age, I find my tolerance for drama is at an all-time low. Though not related to politics, I’ve ended three long term friendships this year, as life is too precious to be wasted on conflict. I’d let this situation cool down for a bit, and reappraise if the effort to save the relationship is worthwhile, realizing respecting your wife trumps preserving your social circle.

 
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Thanks Joe.  Really appreciate the novella, sincerely.  FWIW, I noted previously that we live in a wealthy Boston suburbs not to brag, but because these suburbs lean republican.  So while we aren't deep red, they are redder than you'd likely imagine.  Indeed, I joked post-2016 that I knew enough Gary Johnson voters personally that I wasn't sure how he didn't take Massachusetts.  Anyway, NONE of that takes away from my complete agreement that I, too, am sure they are feeling isolated by media, friends, family, etc.  And that they had a different view of the events of the evening.  As you'll see in the text exchange I posted I also agree that trying to resolve things via text isn't ideal.  My approach was to give him some understanding of why we'd likely be pulling away.  Back story that I didn't share is that this is the second time my wife has felt disrespected by his wife.  That incident isn't worth going into here but we backed away (turned down social opps, refrained from extending them invitations to connect) and that left them a bitt confused and, I think, understandably hurt.  So we just haven't seen very much of them over the past 2 years (save for a couple of large scale gatherings like 50th birthday parties) and this was our attempt to try to rekindle something.  In retrospect, I should have seen that our choice of timing was poor.  

Anyway, thanks so much for your thoughtful reply @Joe Bryant.  I really appreciate it as I think you have a few more important things to be doing on this Sunday morning ;)
Sure, GB. I feel you on this kind of stuff as I see it everywhere. Hang in there. I pray you can be calm and clear headed and discerning in all this. It's a challenge. 

 
I feel you man. It sucks. You don't want to look back and regret that you blew up a close relationship over politics. As someone who leans left living in Kentucky, I've let so many comments go over the past few years from Trump-loving friends and family. It's getting worse with the COVID stuff though. You can keep thoughts and feelings to yourself but COVID forces us to change our behavior. It puts the differences between us and them out in the open. A lot of them take the precautions we take personally. My wife attended a baby shower today because we didn't feel like dealing with the drama if she declined due to the pandemic. The whole thing totally blows. What makes it maddening is that it's all so unnecessary. Politicizing people's safety? It's hard not to be disgusted by it all.

I gotta say though, I don't think I've had something so overtly disrespectful directed at me or my wife as you've outlined in the OP.  Not sure I could blow that off. That would require a phone call and a bit of assertiveness. Not my place to tell you how to deal with your friends though. You know the situation better than anyone. Just wanted to validate what a crappy situation it is.

 
TLDR: losing long-time friends over politics and bad manners (more the latter actually)

My wife and I are left leaning, Trump despising, residents of a wealthy Boston suburb and who mostly keep our opinions to ourselves.  I say "mostly" because my close friends on either side of the political spectrum (and I have several on each side) know how I feel and we have spirited albeit fruitless debates about our different beliefs.  Lately I have found myself occupying a very lonely no-mans' land between two very adamant and opinionated sides.  I write this NOT to stake out some moral high ground in the middle, but rather to emphasize the loneliness of being a left-leaning moderate in the current moment.   Anyway, that's not the point, but is the necessary background.

The point is that we had drinks & dinner tonight with two couples: one with whom we've been friends for 20 years, the other we have only recently gotten to know through these long-time friends. We knew that both of the other couples were likely Trump supporters, but they are lovely people who we simply disagree with on politics and with whom we have, for good reason, chosen to avoid the topic entirely.  They asked us our comfort with getting together tonight indoors and we informed them that with a live-in mother-in-law of 80 (who has multiple co-morbidtities) and a 51 year old brother in the midst of stage 4 prostate cancer that we are closely supporting, we didn't feel comfortable with indoor dining.  We told them that they should not change plans for us, but that given the aforementioned situation we were taking extra pre-cautions.  They said it was no problem and that they'd be happy to entertain us in the 60 degree outdoors.

We arrived at their home and walked to the back yard to find the 2 couples set up in the kitchen.  They said they'd be right out and we should get comfortable on the deck.  We did.  Moments later they joined us on the deck with a small bit of exasperation.  The wife we have known for 20 years went in for a usual hug and before my wife could react her husband sincerely chastised her with "hey, no touching...we talked about this."  The other two couples kept their distance from us but not from one another.  I appreciated it all and thought nothing of it beyond "different strokes for different folks as long as they respect our appraoch."

A few hours later, following several beers and some delicious pizza, my wife gave me the "we should go" sign.  It was earlier than I expected, but the temp was below 60 degrees now and a wind was kicking up - so I understood, or so I thought.  We packed up, elbow bumped goodbye and left.  It was a fun night.

UNTIL...I got in the car and my wife burst into tears.  While I had been outside, she had gotten cornered in the kitchen on her way to the bathroom. Covid was a hoax, didn't she know.  The hosting wife is a dental hygenist and "has had no problems.  I don't even wear a shield sometimes."  Other woman told my wife that the numbers are exaggerated and that "it's all political."   My wife told them that she/we felt differently and that she understood they had a different POV.  My wife was then told that "your side is the problem" at which point my wife retorted "the problem is real and it's less Covid than the lack of leadership addressing it.  In any case, I think we are done here."  My wife then returned from the bathroom and took her seat on the deck only to overhear the two women discussing how "she doesn't get it" and that she "needs to wake up" and how she's "over-reacting" and how "this social distancing is nonsense" and how they are "anti-mask."  All of this came pouring out through tears as we drove off.  

A few minutes ago I texted my male friend of 20 years to let him know what had transpired.  That I had a wonderful time until I learned that my wife was cornered and disrespected.  Not because they didn't share our political views (they never have and I don't care), but because of their inhospitality - their inability to respect OUR simple wishes, ones that they had agreed to in advance - and to not talk about us behind our backs when they couldn't convince my wife of the errors of our ways.  I thanked him for the evening and also told him that the current political situation was stressing everyone out and that our foreign adversaries were taking advantage of the current political situation and that I was saddened and disappointed to learn how the evening had progressed....that our friendship might be the latest casualty in this political battle.  I told him all this and I told him that his wife should not contact mine as I didn't think that would be well-received.  Best to let things cool down, I wrote.  I apologized for sending him a lengthy text with a request to "do nothing."   I offered him the opportunity for the two of us to connect without our wives if he had any thoughts, questions or other perspectives about the evening.  

Am writing all the above because I am 20% pissed and 80% really gd sad.  I don't even know why I'm sharing the above.  I don't know what I want...what I'm seeking from any of you.  I think I just wanted to share.  Am trying to process what might well be the end of a 20 year friendship.  This year sux.      
I have very little sympathy for you. Should they have done that? No, but you and your wife seem inordinately butt hurt. Seems like you’re the one willing to walk from a 20yr friendship so that’s on you. 

 
I have a problem with this part of your text:

 Am texting you so you understand, but would ask that you not share with Diane as I think any attempt by Diane to connect with Susan at this time would not be well received.
I don't think it's reasonable to ask a husband/wife to not talk to each other.

I'm very sad that you and the others here have been dealing with this.  So far, all our friends have either agreed with us or are beig respectful of each other's choices.

 
I have very little sympathy for you. Should they have done that? No, but you and your wife seem inordinately butt hurt. Seems like you’re the one willing to walk from a 20yr friendship so that’s on you. 
Wow.  There is no universe in which I would permit myself or my spouse to be treated in that way.  I would have squashed them like gnats.  OP was much nicer about it than I would have been.

I wouldn't let anyone else be treated that way, either.

 
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I have very little sympathy for you. Should they have done that? No, but you and your wife seem inordinately butt hurt. Seems like you’re the one willing to walk from a 20yr friendship so that’s on you. 
Lovely sentiment and not at all what I am doing, but you be you and good luck with your life with that attitude.  

 
(1) Your situation stinks, I'm sorry to hear about it. It's one of the reasons I just bow out of outings. 

(2) What's done is done but I probably wouldn't text a 20 year friend that sort of message/content. I'd go face to face, see his reactions, hear his instinctive response. Also, I would not text anything I did not expect to be handed to the spouse of my recipient, particularly if it is description of her conduct that he didn't witness.

(3) The Old friends/newer friends via old friends was an almost impossible dynamic. These two couples are reinforcing each other - and this is probably their bell cow topic/rant every time they get together. Could also be a bit of a friend competition/displacement thing. It's stereotypical to say, but it's not real surprising this happened on the x chromosome side of your outing. 

 

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