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The Stock Market-Economy under Joe Biden!


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4 minutes ago, The General said:

You are opposed to how the Fed / Powell has handled monetary policy the past couple years?

I own a ton of real estate, it’s not me they are destroying. Some blind followers are getting it though. 

Edited by GoBirds
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1 minute ago, GoBirds said:

I own a ton of real estate, it’s not me they are destroying. Some blind followers are getting it though. 

I think you and Tony might be on opposite sides of this. He approves of the printing presses.

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4 minutes ago, -jb- said:

The good news is that Biden loves to negotiate with himself so it will be 20.45% by the time it hits the floor. 

I tend to agree here. They throw out this number and negotiate to get what he wants.

There seems to be a lot of wiggle room on the number at what income level these rates can be applied to.

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26 minutes ago, The General said:

I think you and Tony might be on opposite sides of this. He approves of the printing presses.

I find it amusing how many of those it’s destroying actually support it. It has benefited me greatly. 

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11 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

I find it amusing how many of those it’s destroying actually support it. It has benefited me greatly. 

I am glad to hear it has benefited you.

What Fed policies have you been in disagreement with?

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16 hours ago, The General said:

Been getting rich for a decade now (that Clinton run was pretty sweet too) but of course when Biden and Obama did it, it was luck, or the right people in power (but def not them - they are socialists or senile), printing money, inflation, or luck, on and on. :lmao:

Good stuff.

Complaining about inflation when it is actually pretty low is always good shtick. 

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3 hours ago, -jb- said:

Worth noting that the cap gains hit would affect earners of $1m+. I know that’s all FBG but still an important tidbit. 

Are you sure it's each earner that makes over a million? Or each household that makes millions? That's how the level headed among us recognize how this is really going to pull the rug out from under the middle/lower class.

There are slums in La Jolla where folks have to cook for themselves and spend time with their children one day a week as it is!

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3 hours ago, GoBirds said:

I find it amusing how many of those it’s destroying actually support it. It has benefited me greatly. 

My problem is im trying to find a way out when inflation bubble escapes the stockmarket.   I will likely move into timsochets house. "We the living style"   and act extra not thankful.

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5 hours ago, TwinTurbo said:

And don't listen to the talking heads on TV, listen to what the markets are telling you. And right now, they just puked all over this plan, just a nasty reversal that immediately hurt every single investor in every single income group. 

I mean, I hate this plan too and was having a nice day in the market before today's drop, but have you even been alive the past year?  This reaction was pretty tame so far.  A 1% drop in an afternoon is just a Tuesday in this year's market.  We just had 2-3% drops in an afternoon like 5 times last month.  And like 10 times in September and another 10 in October.

We have sudden violent 1% drops all the dang time now.  We'll see if it keeps dropping in the coming months but I don't really think the rich have many great alternatives, and selling all your stuff to create a taxable event because you're worried about a potential tax increase that may not happen is the epitome of silly and I think the whales have already realized that after the initial panic.

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39 minutes ago, The General said:

And then others will buy up the bargains. 

1 There is not enough juice in retail to make up the difference...retail was already over leveraged

2. Those lower prices won’t be bargains if there is less total investment

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1 hour ago, BoltBacker said:

Are you sure it's each earner that makes over a million? Or each household that makes millions? That's how the level headed among us recognize how this is really going to pull the rug out from under the middle/lower class.

There are slums in La Jolla where folks have to cook for themselves and spend time with their children one day a week as it is!

Likely household, as has been the case with other thresholds. Regardless, unless you went to the MoP School of Economics, that’s a pretty small and upper percentile. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t love this idea, as it will have a negative effect on anyone that has money in the market. 

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1 hour ago, Sam Quentin said:

But if the millionaires draw down some stocks, they will take the markets down...

Yep, this is a concern. I’m also worried about the effect it will have on trading frequency/activity. 
 

ETA - my company is going to IPO shortly. This would have a major impact on my (in)ability to diversify after the blackout period. 

Edited by -jb-
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1 hour ago, Sam Quentin said:

1 There is not enough juice in retail to make up the difference...retail was already over leveraged

2. Those lower prices won’t be bargains if there is less total investment

He wont grasp that. 

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1 hour ago, quick-hands said:

My problem is im trying to find a way out when inflation bubble escapes the stockmarket.   I will likely move into timsochets house. "We the living style"   and act extra not thankful.

Are you willing to do the laundry? If so I will consider it. 

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1 hour ago, Sam Quentin said:

1 There is not enough juice in retail to make up the difference...retail was already over leveraged

2. Those lower prices won’t be bargains if there is less total investment

I am going to do a slight 180 here though because there is no way this high of a tax gets through, so while we may get a temporary hit, I think Joe’s Wall Street bros get out in front of this and talk it down to a reasonable number....

pure speculation on my part....

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1 hour ago, Sam Quentin said:

1 There is not enough juice in retail to make up the difference...retail was already over leveraged

2. Those lower prices won’t be bargains if there is less total investment

We will see.

I will be surprised if these leaked tax rates are where we end up, it’s a starting point. At some point things do need to get paid for, millionaires are an easy mark. If these policies go in and the market tanks Dems will be bounced and they will be pulled back. 

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Just now, The General said:

We will see.

I will be surprised if these leaked tax rates are where we end up, it’s a starting point. At some point things do need to get paid for, millionaires are an easy mark. If these policies go in and the market tanks Dems will be bounced and they will be pulled back. 

Agreed. Nobody expects he’s going to get that big of a capital gains increase. It’s a starting negotiation. 

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22 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Agreed. Nobody expects he’s going to get that big of a capital gains increase. It’s a starting negotiation. 

It seems pretty obvious to me.

Republicans seem to have one move these days, obstruct, so we’ll see what actually happens. 

I would venture that Manchin and perhaps some more conservative Dems could also hold this up at current numbers.

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38 minutes ago, Sam Quentin said:

I am going to do a slight 180 here though because there is no way this high of a tax gets through, so while we may get a temporary hit, I think Joe’s Wall Street bros get out in front of this and talk it down to a reasonable number....

pure speculation on my part....

It’s almost like he’s negotiating from a point of strength :coffee:

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Tax rate will bump from 20% to 25%.  Still cheaper than them cashing out of their 401K or IRA.  

Remember when limiting deductions on SALT to $10K was going to crush real estate prices?

This won't have an effect.

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9 hours ago, Sam Quentin said:

I am going to do a slight 180 here though because there is no way this high of a tax gets through, so while we may get a temporary hit, I think Joe’s Wall Street bros get out in front of this and talk it down to a reasonable number....

pure speculation on my part....

We better hope not, it’s a horrible idea. I think your right though, this Liberal dream of over taxing is just a starting point. Let’s hope. 

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I don’t even understand why it’s necessary to increase the capital gains tax. Yes there are things we absolutely need to spend money on, but given that there are two choices: 

1. Increase the size of the already humongous national debt by just a little more, and hope we can grow the economy 

2. Tax the wealthy (which eventually means punish everyone) 

isnt #1 always a better option? 
One of my problems with leftist thinking, as opposed to liberal thinking, is that I suspect that there’s always a punitive nature to what they want to do. This isn’t just about let’s have everyone pay their “fair share”; this is “let’s punish those with money and bring them down some.” 

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6 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I don’t even understand why it’s necessary to increase the capital gains tax.

Schadenfreude.  Given the proposed record setting, confiscatory rates that's the only logical reason.

Obama admitted to raising taxes for fairness sake knowing they'd be economically destructive.  This is the same - on steroids.

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22 hours ago, timschochet said:

I don’t even understand why it’s necessary to increase the capital gains tax. Yes there are things we absolutely need to spend money on, but given that there are two choices: 

1. Increase the size of the already humongous national debt by just a little more, and hope we can grow the economy 

2. Tax the wealthy (which eventually means punish everyone) 

isnt #1 always a better option? 
One of my problems with leftist thinking, as opposed to liberal thinking, is that I suspect that there’s always a punitive nature to what they want to do. This isn’t just about let’s have everyone pay their “fair share”; this is “let’s punish those with money and bring them down some.” 

I don`t have enough money to get punished but never understood that mindset.  NBA players might turn to the right.

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6 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

It means that it always starts out as "tax the wealthy", but eventually they come for everyone.  They always do.

Actually not quite. 
It means that the wealthy always include corporations. And corporations don’t simply absorb greater taxation. They pass it on to consumers. Or they lay off a bunch of people. Or both. 
But a capital gains tax is particularly bad IMO because you’re penalizing economic growth, which is the one thing, if you’re attempting to generate more tax dollars in the long run, you should NOT be penalizing. That is what I believe anyhow. 

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On 4/22/2021 at 11:10 PM, Nugget said:

Tax rate will bump from 20% to 25%.  Still cheaper than them cashing out of their 401K or IRA.  

Remember when limiting deductions on SALT to $10K was going to crush real estate prices?

This won't have an effect.

Yeah but it has contributed to the migration out of the Northeast to Southern states with lower real estate taxes.

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26 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Actually not quite. 
It means that the wealthy always include corporations. And corporations don’t simply absorb greater taxation. They pass it on to consumers. Or they lay off a bunch of people. Or both. 
But a capital gains tax is particularly bad IMO because you’re penalizing economic growth, which is the one thing, if you’re attempting to generate more tax dollars in the long run, you should NOT be penalizing. That is what I believe anyhow. 

Your original statement was that taxing the wealthy “punishes everyone.”  Then when you try to explain why, you don’t even mention the part where the government  spends the additional tax revenue to help people.  That seems like a pretty shoddy analysis.

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41 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Your original statement was that taxing the wealthy “punishes everyone.”  Then when you try to explain why, you don’t even mention the part where the government  spends the additional tax revenue to help people.  That seems like a pretty shoddy analysis.

I offered my argument. I do recognize that the revenue, under Biden, will mostly be put to good use. But I believe it would make more sense in this instance to spend that money without raising the capital gains tax. 

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45 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I offered my argument. I do recognize that the revenue, under Biden, will mostly be put to good use. But I believe it would make more sense in this instance to spend that money without raising the capital gains tax. 

Spend what money?  The money is revenue from the capital gains tax increase.

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

Actually not quite. 
It means that the wealthy always include corporations. And corporations don’t simply absorb greater taxation. They pass it on to consumers. Or they lay off a bunch of people. Or both. 
But a capital gains tax is particularly bad IMO because you’re penalizing economic growth, which is the one thing, if you’re attempting to generate more tax dollars in the long run, you should NOT be penalizing. That is what I believe anyhow. 

This whole idea that we can't tax the wealthy because it hurts everyone else more is just the same debunked trickle-down economics theory.

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3 minutes ago, Desert_Power said:

This whole idea that we can't tax the wealthy because it hurts everyone else more is just the same debunked trickle-down economics theory.

It doesn’t hurt everybody else more- but it hurts everybody else. 
And while I’m not much of a believer that goodness trickles down, I’m very much a believer that pain gets spread everywhere. 

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I am always shocked that so many peons, like many of us are, argue that we shouldn't tax the wealthy more because it may hurt us instead. We are already hurting in relation to the uber wealthy. How about we try and see what happens? We have never been shy about trying to give the wealthy large tax breaks. Let's see how it plays out the other way around.

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11 minutes ago, the moops said:

I am always shocked that so many peons, like many of us are, argue that we shouldn't tax the wealthy more because it may hurt us instead. We are already hurting in relation to the uber wealthy. How about we try and see what happens? We have never been shy about trying to give the wealthy large tax breaks. Let's see how it plays out the other way around.

We did, during the '50s & '60s when top marginal tax rate was over 90% (even under Republican presidents). The middle class thrived, infrastructure boomed, America's economy was pretty great.

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2 hours ago, Amused to Death said:

We did, during the '50s & '60s when top marginal tax rate was over 90% (even under Republican presidents). The middle class thrived, infrastructure boomed, America's economy was pretty great.

That's disingenuous.  The 90% tax rate didn't boost US effective tax rates much, or arguably at all.

The middle class phenomena of the 50s was created by WWII and is a pretty big anomaly in human history.  Correlation isn't causation.

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11 hours ago, Sand said:

That's disingenuous.  The 90% tax rate didn't boost US effective tax rates much, or arguably at all.

The middle class phenomena of the 50s was created by WWII and is a pretty big anomaly in human history.  Correlation isn't causation.

So a tax hike - and a jobs program, with huge government expenditures?

 

Seems familiar ...

 

 

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  • 2 months later...
54 minutes ago, The General said:

Wall Street Joe.

EO restores net neutrality, thank God, increased competition for big tech and protections for the average American so they can't be exploited by big business. 

Stock market hits an all time high. I have to admit I didn't see that coming but happy it did.   I guess the markets are like children.  They may act at times like they want unlimited freedom but in reality they know they are better off with someone looking out for them and teaching discipline. 

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1 hour ago, 2Squirrels1Nut said:

EO restores net neutrality, thank God, increased competition for big tech and protections for the average American so they can't be exploited by big business. 

Stock market hits an all time high. I have to admit I didn't see that coming but happy it did.   I guess the markets are like children.  They may act at times like they want unlimited freedom but in reality they know they are better off with someone looking out for them and teaching discipline. 

Confirmed: 2Squirrles1Nut is actually Joe Biden.

No one would legitimately say this unless you are Joe Biden.

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