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2020-21 NBA *Playoffs* Thread: Bucks are the champs and you can take that to the bank bromigos (8 Viewers)

SWC said:
we all know why you want to do the whole dont look at the boxscore thing and its because trae young averaged 25 points per game this season but he averaged 29 against the sixers ole croc didnt even hold him to his average let alone below it take that to the bank brohan  
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I'm always in all of this Ben is a shut down defender talk when he repeatedly gets lit up for 25-30 PTS a game. Ben is a decent defender but going back to College he had a lot of issues defending players. Teams were not scared on offense to go at Ben which is why he had the gaudy blacks and steal numbers he did. He accumulated better numbers in those categories because of the outrageous number of attempts he had to do so. I've said for awhile the Sixers have done great hiding his defensive flaws but put Ben on a worse defensive team and he's exposed. I mean Ben is helped to a degree by being almost 7FT talll with his wingspan already and being fairly quick for his size. 

 
Thunderlips said:
I'm of the mindset that with the failing of the HC in this postseason along with the idea of "load management" in the regular season makes regular season games less important.  To that, Ben is a decent regular season guy; he's 25; he's built like a basketball player and MIGHT still have some upside.  Best case for the Sixers is if they can move him for a similar contract guy; who's over the hill who might give them better PLAYOFF basketball than Ben can give them.  I'm not going to say Kevin Love......but Kevin Lovesque.
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I thought he just turned 24 on Sunday

 
mr. furley said:
not to take anything away from your post, but Bill Simmons did this.... last year? maybe 2 years ago. 

spread out across several podcast episodes. 

that said, they basically talked a lot about the first couple picks, dismissed everyone else in the class and then did a re-draft with the conclusion that each draft is essentially 3-4 useful players and everyone else is trash.  a bit harsh, i thought, but still interesting.
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NBA Draft is the biggest crap shoot. A lot of times the top guys don't end up developing as the top guys

 
modogg said:
it is what pretty much 90% of the NBA media does. it has become so strange, last 20 years have made basketball all an individual sport. You could see in the Hawks-6'ers series when all they talked about with the Hawks was Trae Young, and a little bit about Nate McMillan. 

Sad and strange, but NBA only has itself to blame with some of the rule changes they have made. I think i even asked it in here like 3-4 years ago, but is it a good thing or bad thing, i have no idea. 

Just crazy how teams are rarely looked at as a whole, and the concept seems to have just evaporated. 
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It's bad if you aren't a fan of watch 1v1 and AND1 type ball. I love the Olympics because the rules cater to team play and why  I love watching EuroLeague. Guys like Harden/Westbrook couldn't play their nBA style in EuroLeague because the rules plus systems are team oriented so much. One guy starts playing hero ball and messes it all up for the team and ends up riding the pine

 
Moe. said:
I am somewhat surprised at how many guys are wanting to play in Tokyo. Thought everybody would want the time off. Not going to be a very interesting tournament. 
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Can't wait to see more superstars injured because of no time off.....  :wall:

 
Thunderlips said:
Cuz on 97.5 brought up a good point.......you're either going to go with a big package to get a good player...or you're moving Simmons for Kuzma.  His thought was Simmons "as is" is better than Kuzma; so he'd rather keep Simmons and hope he gets better.  
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I wouldn't even listen to what Cuz or any of these blowhards say. Simmons will be traded but I think a lot of people are overestimating what the Sixers can get 

 
Thunderlips said:
I'm of the mindset that with the failing of the HC in this postseason along with the idea of "load management" in the regular season makes regular season games less important.  To that, Ben is a decent regular season guy; he's 25; he's built like a basketball player and MIGHT still have some upside.  Best case for the Sixers is if they can move him for a similar contract guy; who's over the hill who might give them better PLAYOFF basketball than Ben can give them.  I'm not going to say Kevin Love......but Kevin Lovesque.
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Ben and Hill FOR Sexton and Love.

 
DJackson10 said:
I wouldn't even listen to what Cuz or any of these blowhards say. Simmons will be traded but I think a lot of people are overestimating what the Sixers can get 
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I don't think Cuz is wrong.  Obviously if you're getting Lillard(they're not) or DeRozen(maybe a sign and trade) that's one thing.  But giving him up for a bag of balls and the rights to Yao Ming (in the off chance the Chinese perfect the artifical foot) would hurt the team more than keeping him.  

 
modogg said:
it is what pretty much 90% of the NBA media does. it has become so strange, last 20 years have made basketball all an individual sport. You could see in the Hawks-6'ers series when all they talked about with the Hawks was Trae Young, and a little bit about Nate McMillan. 

Sad and strange, but NBA only has itself to blame with some of the rule changes they have made. I think i even asked it in here like 3-4 years ago, but is it a good thing or bad thing, i have no idea. 

Just crazy how teams are rarely looked at as a whole, and the concept seems to have just evaporated. 
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i'm old so hold no delusions about my opinion on how things are holding any weight at all... but, i did enjoy watching the games more when all 5 guys were at least competent in most if not all aspects of the game.

power forwards would regularly knock down mid-range jumpers. centers could post up and score. both could see the floor and pass. 

point guards might not be high scoring, but they orchestrated the game and led the team.

everyone is just hyper-specialized now and pure athleticism seems to be prized above all else. the Kevin Duckworth era is over. any maybe that's for the best... i dunno. it sure is different.

 
from here

Milwaukee Bucks forward Khris Middleton and Cleveland Cavaliers forward Kevin Love have committed to joining Team USA's 12-man roster for the Summer Olympics in Tokyo, Excel Basketball agent Mike Lindeman told ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski.

Middleton will be making his first Olympic appearance after playing for Team USA in the Basketball World Cup in 2019, while Love will be in his second Olympics after winning gold at the 2012 London Games.

Their commitments would leave two spots remaining on the 12-man Olympic roster, as 10 players -- the others are Miami's Bam Adebayo, Brooklyn's James Harden and Kevin Durant, Golden State's Draymond Green, Washington's Bradley Beal, Boston's Jayson Tatum, Phoenix's Devin Booker and Portland's Damian Lillard -- already have pledged to play, according to ESPN and multiple reports.

 
Ehh, i doubt this will do anything, but nice PR for the NBA after they showed NBA fans how silly the current rules are after the 6'ers-Hawks series:

Shams Charania @ShamsCharania

Sources: The NBA is expected to implement new rules to limit non-basketball moves that would result in an offensive foul or no-call beginning next season.

Not trying to be a cynic with the NBA, but i am going to guess we won't see much change at all. The NBA does more to prop up their "stars", and thus Trae won't all of a sudden stop getting all of those free throws. but hooray on them to make it look like they are going to do something

ETA: i'll miss some of these though: https://twitter.com/Chriftopher/status/1407372491979476992. Honestly is hilarious that the NBA waits to make this call after the series

 
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mr. furley said:
not to take anything away from your post, but Bill Simmons did this.... last year? maybe 2 years ago. 

spread out across several podcast episodes. 

that said, they basically talked a lot about the first couple picks, dismissed everyone else in the class and then did a re-draft with the conclusion that each draft is essentially 3-4 useful players and everyone else is trash.  a bit harsh, i thought, but still interesting.
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Using "Players with 100+ Win Shares", there were 5 drafts that had 4 or more such players . . .

1984 (6 players) - Jordan 214, Stockton 208, Barkley 177, Olajuwan 163, Thorpe 106, Perkins 105
1999 (5 players) - Shawn Marion 125, Elton Brand 110, Manu Ginobili 106, Jason Terry 102, Andre Miller 101
2003 (4 players) - Lebron 242, Wade 120, Bosh 106, Carmelo 105
1987 (4 players) - David Robinson 189, Reggie Miller 174, Scottie Pippen 125, Horace Grant 118
1985 (4 players) - Karl Malone 235, Patrick Ewing 126, Terry Porter 110, Detlef Schrempf 110

 
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Anarchy99 said:
Using "Players with 100+ Win Shares", there were 5 drafts that had 4 or more such players . . .

1984 (6 players) - Jordan 214, Stockton 208, Barkley 177, Olajuwan 163, Thorpe 106, Perkins 105
1999 (5 players) - Shawn Marion 125, Elton Brand 110, Manu Ginobili 106, Jason Terry 102, Andre Miller 101
2003 (4 players) - Lebron 242, Wade 120, Bosh 106, Carmelo 105
1987 (4 players) - David Robinson 189, Reggie Miller 174, Scottie Pippen 125, Horace Grant 118
1985 (4 players) - Karl Malone 235, Patrick Ewing 126, Terry Porter 110, Detlef Schrempf 110
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Is 1996 right after that?

 
Anarchy99 said:
Using "Players with 100+ Win Shares", there were 5 drafts that had 4 or more such players . . .

1984 (6 players) - Jordan 214, Stockton 208, Barkley 177, Olajuwan 163, Thorpe 106, Perkins 105
1999 (5 players) - Shawn Marion 125, Elton Brand 110, Manu Ginobili 106, Jason Terry 102, Andre Miller 101
2003 (4 players) - Lebron 242, Wade 120, Bosh 106, Carmelo 105
1987 (4 players) - David Robinson 189, Reggie Miller 174, Scottie Pippen 125, Horace Grant 118
1985 (4 players) - Karl Malone 235, Patrick Ewing 126, Terry Porter 110, Detlef Schrempf 110
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1986 is pretty solid too (Rodman, Hornacek, Sabonis, Ron Harper, Price, McMillan, Salley, Curry, Skiles, Petrovic, Daughtery, Duckworth, Person).  84-87 were league re-defining drafts.

'86 doesn't have the Win Shares, but produced a lot of longtime players.

 
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I just can't understand an NBA player not being able to make free throws.  Maybe Shaq as the ball felt like a grapefruit in his hands.  But everyone else? Nah.  What Ben and Giannis did in these playoffs was a disgrace to the game.  You can't tell me that having a shooting coach at their side fine tuning technique and then shooting X # of free throws every day during the offseason wouldn't get anybody to a minimum of 70% or so.  Maybe 60 and change for the worst.  The game is stopped.  Nobody defending.  That's like not being able to play catch in baseball.

 
Judge Smails said:
I just can't understand an NBA player not being able to make free throws.  Maybe Shaq as the ball felt like a grapefruit in his hands.  But everyone else? Nah.  What Ben and Giannis did in these playoffs was a disgrace to the game.  You can't tell me that having a shooting coach at their side fine tuning technique and then shooting X # of free throws every day during the offseason wouldn't get anybody to a minimum of 70% or so.  Maybe 60 and change for the worst.  The game is stopped.  Nobody defending.  That's like not being able to play catch in baseball.
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They are called 'free' throws, after all

 
modogg said:
Ehh, i doubt this will do anything, but nice PR for the NBA after they showed NBA fans how silly the current rules are after the 6'ers-Hawks series:

Shams Charania @ShamsCharania

Sources: The NBA is expected to implement new rules to limit non-basketball moves that would result in an offensive foul or no-call beginning next season.

Not trying to be a cynic with the NBA, but i am going to guess we won't see much change at all. The NBA does more to prop up their "stars", and thus Trae won't all of a sudden stop getting all of those free throws. but hooray on them to make it look like they are going to do something

ETA: i'll miss some of these though: https://twitter.com/Chriftopher/status/1407372491979476992. Honestly is hilarious that the NBA waits to make this call after the series
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Pretty sure your post is the definition of cynicism.

 
three forces which work against successful FT schooling:

- hand size/structure: LSS, some hands are too long for backspin and backspin is the most important element in FTs

- balance: consistent FT shooting starts in the knees and some bodies have too much distance between knees and hands to allow a highly-repeatable stroke, just as with taller golfers

- attention-deficit

 
Judge Smails said:
I just can't understand an NBA player not being able to make free throws.  Maybe Shaq as the ball felt like a grapefruit in his hands.  But everyone else? Nah.  What Ben and Giannis did in these playoffs was a disgrace to the game.  You can't tell me that having a shooting coach at their side fine tuning technique and then shooting X # of free throws every day during the offseason wouldn't get anybody to a minimum of 70% or so.  Maybe 60 and change for the worst.  The game is stopped.  Nobody defending.  That's like not being able to play catch in baseball.
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Kind of like a bunt in baseball.  You could beat some of these outrageous shifts half the time with a decent bunt.  But real men don't bunt or practice free throws.  

 
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jon_mx said:
Kind of like a bunt in baseball.  You could beat some of these outrageous shifts have the time with a decent bunt.  But real men don't bunt or practice free throws.  
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MUCH much more difficult to execute an effective bunt.

1-the pitcher--the type of pitch; the speed of it, the location

2-the batter---speed to first base (assuming it's not a sacrifice bunt)

Basketball has zero of those kinds of factors.

 
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wikkidpissah said:
three forces which work against successful FT schooling:

- hand size/structure: LSS, some hands are too long for backspin and backspin is the most important element in FTs

- balance: consistent FT shooting starts in the knees and some bodies have too much distance between knees and hands to allow a highly-repeatable stroke, just as with taller golfers

- attention-deficit
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Boban has the biggest hands of anyone to ever  play in the league and he shot over 80% this year (77% for his career)

 
Judge Smails said:
I just can't understand an NBA player not being able to make free throws.  Maybe Shaq as the ball felt like a grapefruit in his hands.  But everyone else? Nah.  What Ben and Giannis did in these playoffs was a disgrace to the game.  You can't tell me that having a shooting coach at their side fine tuning technique and then shooting X # of free throws every day during the offseason wouldn't get anybody to a minimum of 70% or so.  Maybe 60 and change for the worst.  The game is stopped.  Nobody defending.  That's like not being able to play catch in baseball.
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Hand size isn't even an excuse. 

Here's a list of the top 15 largest hands. Not all of them suck at free throws.

Boban Marjanovic: Estimated to be 10.75/12 inches

Shaquille O'Neal: Estimated to be 10.25/12 inches

Giannis Antetokounmpo: 9.85/12 inches

Gregory Smith: 9.8/12 inches

Connie Hawkins: 10.5/11 inches

Noah Vonleh: 9.75/11.75 inches

Julius Erving: Estimated to be 9.5/11.75 inches

Michael Jordan: 9.75/11.375 inches

Kawhi Leonard: 9.75/11.25 inches

Wilt Chamberlain: 9.5/11.5 inches

Royce White: 9.5/11.5 inches

Wayne Embry: Estimated to be 9.25/11.75 inches

Elgin Baylor: Estimated to be 9.75/11 inches.

Jahlil Okafor: Estimated to be 9.5/11.25 inches

Rajon Rondo: 9.5/10 inches

 
Lol at all the hand size research done in here. Hand size was brought up to defend Shaq because he was a Laker and that post was made by a Laker fan. Everyone else bad at free throws is a disgrace to the game. 

 
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jon_mx said:
Kind of like a bunt in baseball.  You could beat some of these outrageous shifts half the time with a decent bunt.  But real men don't bunt or practice free throws.  
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I dunno about bunting but for free throws I don't think it's lack of practice.

I've always assumed it's mental, and it's tough because they can't replicate the game environment in a practice setting. There are countless stories of guys like Dwight Howard regularly making 9 out of every 10 or whatever in an empty gym. 

 
i'm amazed it has taken this long, but thankfully someone in the sports media is calling out these fraud sports media staff and the dumb-### fans out there all making fun of Ben Simmons. Appreciate finally someone calling people out for pouring on a guy with a mental health issue

https://twitter.com/FoxSportsRadio/status/1407409300767711239

just insanity how people act all high and mighty but love coming around to kick a guy when he is down because of a legitimate issue

 
modogg said:
i'm amazed it has taken this long, but thankfully someone in the sports media is calling out these fraud sports media staff and the dumb-### fans out there all making fun of Ben Simmons. Appreciate finally someone calling people out for pouring on a guy with a mental health issue

https://twitter.com/FoxSportsRadio/status/1407409300767711239

just insanity how people act all high and mighty but love coming around to kick a guy when he is down because of a legitimate issue
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Has he been diagnosed with a mental health issue?

And if so, did he make that public?

 
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identikit said:
Has he been diagnosed with a mental health issue?

And if so, did he make that public?
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Dr. Octopus said:
Unless you have solid information, you shouldn’t be calling this a “mental health issue”. Maybe you’re not aware how real that can be.
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kind of odd responses, was thinking more that the clip was pointing to the fact that when the guy comes out and says he has trouble mentally with his free throws that everyone shouldn't make jokes about it with him and kick him when he is down. 

KAT never had an Axis I diagnosis, but thankfully people gave him space and patience to grieve his losses during COVID. Is it so crazy to think that mocking and kicking a guy when he is down, and not because he is a blowhard or goes all around talking junk?

ETA: i get it when Embiid trolls someone and it comes back his way. but often those times it is some people making a small joke or 2. This Ben Simmons thing is beyond ridiculous how everyone wants to pour on now. And maybe the fault lands with significant portions of fan bases that listen to these hot takes and watch dunks on Sportscenter and believe what they are always told

 
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