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2020-21 NBA *Playoffs* Thread: Bucks are the champs and you can take that to the bank bromigos


Capella

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15 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

It was the soccer flop that sold the whole thing. I mean if that is an F2, then Joker should have just punched the guy square in the face and knocked him out since the punishment would have been the same. 

Being honest, i don't think anything would have changed the outcome of the series. Phoenix--specifically Paul, played amazing and they deserved to win. 

I don't know what Denver will do in the off-season. Like I said earlier in this thread, i really thought signing Gordon was going to be the final piece, but little did I know he is just a piece of (insert word). They need to let go of Milsap and that will save 10 mil. There just is a two--three year window here to make this happen. Murray is being paid like a top tier guy--he needs to bring it EVERY night  Sure he has 30 points one night, but it is followed by a 12 and then a 10 point night. You can't have that. It will interesting to see how he is after the recovery. 

I don’t think the punishment would have been quite the exact same.

Going from Grant to Gordon really hurt the Nuggets I thought, aside from losing Murray obviously.

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I agree with a lot of what you're saying.

Joker acted out of frustration and did something he wouldn't normally do (I think?)

Hard for the refs not to give heavier weight to the big windup and follow-through.

If he'd done the same thing, but hit Payne squarely in the face instead of glancing off it?

 

 

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19 minutes ago, identikit said:

I agree with a lot of what you're saying.

Joker acted out of frustration and did something he wouldn't normally do (I think?)

Hard for the refs not to give heavier weight to the big windup and follow-through.

If he'd done the same thing, but hit Payne squarely in the face instead of glancing off it?

 

 

the frustration was legit, but the ball was the target. windup, impact, followthru with a person as the target, even, "any damn thing" as the target fine. ball as target, cant be a 2.

Edited by wikkidpissah
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Just now, wikkidpissah said:

the frustration was legit, but the ball was the target. windup, impact, followthru with a person as the target, fine. ball as target, cant be a 2.

That's the risk I suppose, with the player between Joker and the ball.

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3 hours ago, modogg said:

huh, what a weird stat to track. Do they gather that info by looking at the crowd? breaking everything down to 4 categories seems odd as well. 

No clue. I'm assuming some kind of polling similar to tv ratings. 

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1 hour ago, wikkidpissah said:

no plays, no stops, players judging their self-worth by the defense they dont HAVE to play, not to mention some pretty revolting personalities, i think i've been looking for a way tp quit this game again for a while. i did in 2009 - i think it was a LeBron thing that put me over the top but i dont remember - and it lasted til the Warriors brought in a new brand of ball and Brad Stevens was hired not long after i moved back to Celtics country, and i think the call - so stoopit that it almost had wokeness in it - on Jokic last nite is it for me, at least for the rest of this season. !!!

Suns are fun to watch. They've become my adopted team to root for this year.

If only the games weren't so damn late!

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15 minutes ago, nysfl2 said:

Suns are fun to watch. They've become my adopted team to root for this year.

If only the games weren't so damn late!

CP3 is one of the OG spoilheads from the last time i quit watching, tho it's a li'lbit fun to watch him reintroduce the stop&pop to the outright mystification of the rest of the league. "OMG, it's not a layup or jam and it's not a trey or desperate heave - WHAT IS IT?!?!". and that's another part of what irritates me about today's game - instead of stepping someone out on the spot when it happens more than once, they gotta let it happen for three straight games, then practice it and still not get it while evvybody practices their 'idonwanna's on the assignment for fear they'll lose swag by doing a mere necessity. !!!

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1 hour ago, scoobus said:

I don’t think the punishment would have been quite the exact same.

Going from Grant to Gordon really hurt the Nuggets I thought, aside from losing Murray obviously.

Grant had a fantastic playoffs after a very mediocre season. Gordon was very good in the regular season for the Nuggets (other than his shooting) and was really bad in the playoffs. I still think Gordon is the better player.

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4 hours ago, Jayrod said:

While I agree with the concept that strong physical plays like this should be penalized, I think a flagrant 2 was too harsh even if it was some random bench player in a mid-season game...much less the MVP in a close-out playoff game.

First of all, he was going after the ball.  It was forceful and out of frustration, but the ultimate goal was to knock the ball loose, which he actually did.  They let super strong contact go on guys trying to shoot layups all the time because it is deemed a "basketball play" but in reality it is simply to keep the player from having a chance at a 3-point play.  This seemed to be more of a punishment of the when and where (in the backcourt) than the how.

Secondly, there was no real risk of significant injury.  Worst case was a bloody nose or jammed finger.  It was an open hand slap with only arm strength (unlike a shove with body weight behind it), nor an attack on an airborne player.  As hard as you can slap someone the worst it will do is sting and bruise, but that's about it.  There was not real danger of significant injury unless he caught him on square the bridge of the nose or jab into the eyes.  He basically just grazed Payne's face with his forearm while the force of his hand struck the ball.

I've seen similar contact deemed common fouls, so the final call seemed really odd to me.

He was not going for the ball and his intention was not to knock it loose. His intention was to foul Payne out of frustration so that he could vent to the ref about a no call and to try to spark his teammates. He admitted it himself in the post game. These are his own words: 

"I wanted to change the rhythm of the game, I wanted to give us some energy, maybe change the whistle a little bit, so I wanted to make a hard foul," Jokic said. 

He went to Payne with the intention of fouling him hard and that’s why he didn’t just slap at the ball -but dangerously and aggressively wound up and clubbed at it.  He’s frankly lucky that he didn’t get more of Payne’s face or injure his shoulder- and had he not been lucky enough to hit the ball at all- it would have easily been a suspendable play. If draymond green or either of the Morris brothers did the same thing as Jokic- they would have been tossed immediately.

 

i disagree about injury risk. A 270-280 pound player clubbing a player that weighs 30-40% less than him is risky- period. Like I said- I love Jokic but that play was misguided and dirty. 

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25 minutes ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

He was not going for the ball and his intention was not to knock it loose. His intention was to foul Payne out of frustration so that he could vent to the ref about a no call and to try to spark his teammates. He admitted it himself in the post game. These are his own words: 

"I wanted to change the rhythm of the game, I wanted to give us some energy, maybe change the whistle a little bit, so I wanted to make a hard foul," Jokic said. 

He went to Payne with the intention of fouling him hard and that’s why he didn’t just slap at the ball -but dangerously and aggressively wound up and clubbed at it.  He’s frankly lucky that he didn’t get more of Payne’s face or injure his shoulder- and had he not been lucky enough to hit the ball at all- it would have easily been a suspendable play. If draymond green or either of the Morris brothers did the same thing as Jokic- they would have been tossed immediately.

i disagree about injury risk. A 270-280 pound player clubbing a player that weighs 30-40% less than him is risky- period. Like I said- I love Jokic but that play was misguided and dirty. 

You can do both at the same time.  A hard foul that goes after the ball happens basically every single game when a player is attempting a layup and the opponent wants to put him on the line but not allow the shot up for a 3 point play.  Sometimes they catch the players face (as is the same in this play) and get a flagrant 1.  Basically never is it a flagrant 2 and ejection and this play is exactly the same in ferocity and intent.

There was little to no injury risk.  It happens almost every game.

Edited by Jayrod
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old joker should try out for karate and see how many boards he can break in half with his bare hand because that was a serious samasori ninja chop that he delivered to camera payne and frankly camera payne is lucky he is alive take that to the bank brohans 

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1 hour ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

He was not going for the ball and his intention was not to knock it loose. His intention was to foul Payne out of frustration so that he could vent to the ref about a no call and to try to spark his teammates. He admitted it himself in the post game. These are his own words: 

"I wanted to change the rhythm of the game, I wanted to give us some energy, maybe change the whistle a little bit, so I wanted to make a hard foul," Jokic said. 

He went to Payne with the intention of fouling him hard and that’s why he didn’t just slap at the ball -but dangerously and aggressively wound up and clubbed at it.  He’s frankly lucky that he didn’t get more of Payne’s face or injure his shoulder- and had he not been lucky enough to hit the ball at all- it would have easily been a suspendable play. If draymond green or either of the Morris brothers did the same thing as Jokic- they would have been tossed immediately.

 

i disagree about injury risk. A 270-280 pound player clubbing a player that weighs 30-40% less than him is risky- period. Like I said- I love Jokic but that play was misguided and dirty. 

all ball. it aint joker's fault that JarJar Payne has no pre-frontal cortex to run interference for his facial folds

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2 hours ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

He was not going for the ball and his intention was not to knock it loose. His intention was to foul Payne out of frustration so that he could vent to the ref about a no call and to try to spark his teammates. He admitted it himself in the post game. These are his own words: 

"I wanted to change the rhythm of the game, I wanted to give us some energy, maybe change the whistle a little bit, so I wanted to make a hard foul," Jokic said. 

He went to Payne with the intention of fouling him hard and that’s why he didn’t just slap at the ball -but dangerously and aggressively wound up and clubbed at it.  He’s frankly lucky that he didn’t get more of Payne’s face or injure his shoulder- and had he not been lucky enough to hit the ball at all- it would have easily been a suspendable play. If draymond green or either of the Morris brothers did the same thing as Jokic- they would have been tossed immediately.

 

i disagree about injury risk. A 270-280 pound player clubbing a player that weighs 30-40% less than him is risky- period. Like I said- I love Jokic but that play was misguided and dirty. 

Green's foul on LBJ in the play in was worse IMO and was deemed a common foul.

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5 hours ago, wikkidpissah said:

the frustration was legit, but the ball was the target. windup, impact, followthru with a person as the target, even, "any damn thing" as the target fine. ball as target, cant be a 2.

I’ve seen a number of people (online, not just here) incorrectly claim that as long as someone is making a play on the ball it can’t be a flagrant foul.  What the referees are looking for in the flagrant replays is was the contact a result of a “basketball play”, not a “play on the ball.”  
 

Taken to an extreme, a player could make a diving attempt to dislodge the ball and tackle the ball handler in the process. Even though he’s making a play on the ball, it could be considered flagrant since the tackle isn’t considered a basketball play.  McHale technically made contact with the ball when he clotheslined Rambis, but that would for sure be a flagrant 2 today. 
 

NBA rule book: “If contact committed against a player, with or without the ball, is interpreted to be unnecessary and excessive, a flagrant foul—penalty (2) will be assessed.”

 

Flagrant 1 is unnecessary contact. Flagrant 2 is unnecessary and excessive. 
 

DISCLAIMER - I personally thought it should just be called a flagrant 1 (because of the contact to the face), but understand the upgrade to 2 due to the wind up and follow through being considered excessive. 
 

Ducks and runs away. . . 

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1 hour ago, SWC said:

old joker should try out for karate and see how many boards he can break in half with his bare hand because that was a serious samasori ninja chop that he delivered to camera payne and frankly camera payne is lucky he is alive take that to the bank brohans 

Booker was the luckiest guy in this kerfuffle. He tried the hold me back move as Jokic just moved the pile backwards walking him down.  Even Crowder didn't want any of that smoke.

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45 minutes ago, Yo Mama said:

I’ve seen a number of people (online, not just here) incorrectly claim that as long as someone is making a play on the ball it can’t be a flagrant foul.  What the referees are looking for in the flagrant replays is was the contact a result of a “basketball play”, not a “play on the ball.”  
 

Taken to an extreme, a player could make a diving attempt to dislodge the ball and tackle the ball handler in the process. Even though he’s making a play on the ball, it could be considered flagrant since the tackle isn’t considered a basketball play.  McHale technically made contact with the ball when he clotheslined Rambis, but that would for sure be a flagrant 2 today. 
 

NBA rule book: “If contact committed against a player, with or without the ball, is interpreted to be unnecessary and excessive, a flagrant foul—penalty (2) will be assessed.”

 

Flagrant 1 is unnecessary contact. Flagrant 2 is unnecessary and excessive. 
 

DISCLAIMER - I personally thought it should just be called a flagrant 1 (because of the contact to the face), but understand the upgrade to 2 due to the wind up and follow through being considered excessive. 
 

Ducks and runs away. . . 

wasnt arguing F2 couldnt be called, but that it shouldnt have been, to the point that it was idiotic to do so. i hate to use Reggie Miller as a barometer, but he was quick & insistent that the foul was flagrant yet surprised by the ejection. if there's doubt, judgement at play, here you dont send a citizen, an MVP amid his last gasp, to the showers. there's no history, no motive in Obi-wan totalling JarJar. sports is the best venue anymore to be hard & fair, i watch only best v best in sports anymore and expect excellence in all aspects at top levels. i am tired of being disappointed, so i am hereby limiting my chances to be so.

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21 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

Irving and Harden both officially out for game 5.  What a strange trip this series has been.

Durant has to carry his team on his slim shoulders.

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2 minutes ago, msudaisy26 said:

Hasn't the Barkley guarantee been the kiss of death this year?

Seems like most of the time.

He and Shaq both picked Atlanta to win this series.

We will see....

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6 minutes ago, identikit said:

Trae's 3 has disappeared.

Hawks should be up 6 to 10 points right now, but they are just missing easy shots. Can't do that against a team as good as the 76ers. 

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Watching Dwight Howard bounce his frosted tips up the court just now, I was going to ask "Is anyone in the NBA more unlikeable than Dwight?"  Then I remembered his teammate Embiid exists, the Nets exist, and the Lakers exist.  

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1 minute ago, facook said:

Watching Dwight Howard bounce his frosted tips up the court just now, I was going to ask "Is anyone in the NBA more unlikeable than Dwight?"  Then I remembered his teammate Embiid exists, the Nets exist, and the Lakers exist.  

He would be more unlikable if he was still really good. 

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1 hour ago, CletiusMaximus said:

Irving and Harden both officially out for game 5.  What a strange trip this series has been.

No series for brittle men.

Edited by Gr00vus
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8 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

No series for brittle men.

Until this year Harden has been kind of an iron man. 

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22 minutes ago, facook said:

Watching Dwight Howard bounce his frosted tips up the court just now, I was going to ask "Is anyone in the NBA more unlikeable than Dwight?"  Then I remembered his teammate Embiid exists, the Nets exist, and the Lakers exist.  

Embiid is the most likeable athlete in the NBA. In my unbiased opinion. 😜

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1 minute ago, Insein said:

It was 38-35 Sixers a couple minutes ago. It's now 55-38 sixers. 

Let's go.

They are playing great. Good ball movement, hitting open shots and contesting. 

Only concern for Philly right now is Embiid's knee. Someone needs to tell Doc to rest him in 4th quarter if they are blowing them out. Need to save every minute they can on his knee. 

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29 minutes ago, facook said:

Watching Dwight Howard bounce his frosted tips up the court just now, I was going to ask "Is anyone in the NBA more unlikeable than Dwight?"  Then I remembered his teammate Embiid exists, the Nets exist, and the Lakers exist.  

Sounds like a bunch of jealousy to me.

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12 minutes ago, msudaisy26 said:

Until this year Harden has been kind of an iron man. 

As I sit here needing rehab for my shoulder, thumb, both achilles resulting from nothing I can specifically attribute the injuries to, I feel I am qualified to say, getting old doesn't necessarily happen in a gentle, steady decline, sometimes it hits you like a slamming door. One day you're an iron man, the next you're mr. glass. Getting out of bed without hurting yourself becomes a major accomplishment.

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1 minute ago, Gr00vus said:

As I sit here needing rehab for my shoulder, thumb, both achilles resulting from nothing I can specifically attribute the injuries to, I feel I am qualified to say, getting old doesn't necessarily happen in a gentle, steady decline, sometimes it hits you like a slamming door. One day you're an iron man, the next you're mr. glass. Getting out of bed without hurting yourself becomes a major accomplishment.

I agree, but you are comparing yourself to a?professional athlete that is in his prime. 

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it really is crazy watching every game and 80% of the time a player drives and scores, then turns and yells to the ref. I don't think the NBA wants to change this, but i wonder if the NBA should pay attn because i think it will lose them some fans. 

I know in rugby you get a penalty if you even speak to the ref. only person on the field able to peak with the ref is the captain. With that being the rule, it is better because refs can let it go a bit and it was never an issue. i don't think anyone is asking for this to change so may be moot point, but i don't know if anybody thinks the constant complaining to the ref is  good thing

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4 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

As I sit here needing rehab for my shoulder, thumb, both achilles resulting from nothing I can specifically attribute the injuries to, I feel I am qualified to say, getting old doesn't necessarily happen in a gentle, steady decline, sometimes it hits you like a slamming door. One day you're an iron man, the next you're mr. glass. Getting out of bed without hurting yourself becomes a major accomplishment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVqrekel3a4&ab_channel=DezmondGipsonDezmondGipson

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4 minutes ago, Insein said:

Sixers still missing FTs though. 5-10 so far. It's really baffling.

yeah i wonder if it has to do with playing away and fans in the building now. thankfully it isn't impacting them too much

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5 minutes ago, msudaisy26 said:

I agree, but you are comparing yourself to a?professional athlete that is in his prime. 

Old for pro sports purposes happens a lot earlier than old happens for the general population. Harden's only 31, so maybe it's just bad luck and not the beginning of a pattern. :shrug:

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Hawks need better defense and start making a lot more of those shots in the paint they've been missing in the first half.

Then they will have a chance.

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Ben has had a sneaky 15  8 points already, 11 rebounds and 7 assists is pretty swell. Glad the aggressive Ben has carried over into this game

ETA: read wrong column, he is +15, with 8 points. I was wondering why i didn't see him scoring too much but he had double figures already :bag:

Edited by modogg
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26 minutes ago, Chris B. said:

Sounds like a bunch of jealousy to me.

I think you have to care about the sport to be jealous.

Two times I have been jealous of NBA teams: Bulls when they drafted Jordan and Sonics when they drafted Durant.

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  • Capella changed the title to 2020-21 NBA *Playoffs* Thread: Bucks are the champs and you can take that to the bank bromigos

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