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2020-21 NBA *Playoffs* Thread: Bucks are the champs and you can take that to the bank bromigos (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Capella
- Start date
gruecd
Footballguy
What? Calling every single travel and moving screen? And every flop? And every lane violation?
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Love it - they don’t actually expect it to be called but it’s smart to put it in Giannis’ mind - if it makes him rush his routine then they accomplished their goal.
The 10 second rule for FTs has never made any sense to me as a rule. There’s not really a noticeable advantage to doing it - clock is stopped. I guess you could argue that it allows the shooter to rest and calm him mind but anybody who’s played before knows that taking forever to shoot it just puts bad things in your mind. There’s a reason they call TOs and move around the line - to get the shooter to think about it. It’s a totally unnecessary rule, IMO.
identikit
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I guess now that I actually take some time to think about it. I guess you could have teams try to get extra TOs for talking things over by having the shooter just stand there with the ball. I guess for that reason I can see having something in place. Also, I'm sure somebody will point out the length of the games and that is a concern.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Nah.
Don't make the same mistake Golden State made with Wiseman/Ball which IMO was just horrendous. Just imagine Ball feeding to all-time great shooters Curry/Thompson as they get older. Yes that's gonna sting. Wiseman, no matter how good he becomes will just never have the same impact Ball will.
Id take Suggs over Mobley also. While he might not become a superstar, he has very few weaknesses in his game and very polished for his age.
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
The shot clock should be set for all free throws and inbound plays.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
gruecd
Footballguy
Ugh. Could you imagine all the official reviews to see whether or not the ball left the guy's hand on time? No thanks.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
GL - I'll be at the Brewers game but then going to watch the Bucks game at my neighbors. A sweep today would be nice.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Also, why not review the clock and re-set tenths of seconds back on every stoppage? When sitting at a game, its common to see seconds running off after the ball goes out of play, or the clock failing to start properly during the first 3.9 quarters of the game. Those tenths of seconds in the first quarter are just as important as the ones at the end. A properly officiated game should take 5-6 hours at least.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
my sense is that Barnes could only learn bad habits with a developing team. he appears the IDEAL addition to a team with some starballers in place that has gone a little stale or lacks toughness -
ETA: the Jazz should frikkin SELL OUT for him
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Capella
Footballguy
Moe.
Footballguy
Sounds like Presti's type. He'd be a great fit next to Poku, assuming Poku doesn't randomly break in half at some point.
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Moe.
Footballguy
Here is Hollinger's Barnes write-up
3. Scottie Barnes, SF, Florida State, Freshman
I’m really surprised Barnes isn’t getting more buzz. He could easily end up as the best player in this draft and has a case for being the top pick.
Again, the search for big wings comes first at the NBA level, and everything comes later — and the playoffs are showing why. Barnes has weaknesses, and we’ll get to them in a minute, but there is early Spurs-era Kawhi Leonard upside here as well.
For starters, for a player who is supposed to be terrible at offense, Barnes’s offensive numbers are pretty darned good. He came off the bench for a relatively slow-paced team and that muted his counting stats, but Barnes averaged 23.8 points per 100 possessions — similar to the rate of most other first-round hopefuls — and shot 56.1 percent inside the arc. Both numbers increased in ACC play when the Seminoles played their most difficult competition.
Barnes showed an ability to get all the way to the cup under his own steam, something he should be able to do much more in the open floor that the NBA offers. Even against defenders that lay off him, Barnes chews up space with huge strides and, at 6-foot-9, can finish over any guard, which allowed him to generate rim attempts despite lacking explosiveness.
Despite his huge size, Barnes loves to play defense and often checked opposing point guards. I don’t mean switches, either; this was his primary assignment. With his long arms and relentless motor, he frequently picked the dribble of ballhandlers on the perimeter. He offers the kind of switchable “checkmate” defensive answer that every team craves, possessing the size to check interior players but also the quickness and hands to switch onto any perimeter threat. All the background on him is fantastic, too.
Barnes has warts, particularly in his shooting and his lack of off-the-dribble turbo gear, and that could put a cap on his offensive upside. He doesn’t rebound well for his size and was outplayed by Michigan’s Franz Wagner (see below) in an NCAA tournament game. His downside looms if the shooting doesn’t make him playable at the end of games.
That said, I remain amazed he isn’t getting more buzz. For comparison, Patrick Williams came off the bench for Florida State a year earlier and ended up as the fourth pick in the draft, and Barnes’ tools and production dwarf Williams’. As the draft’s No. 2 on-the-ball prospect, he compares favorably to Cunningham on defense and distribution but pales next to him as a shooter.
As ever, shooting is the swing skill, and it’s why I rate Cunningham higher. Barnes’ floor is just much lower because of the shooting question. Nonetheless, I happen to think Barnes is so skilled in other respects that he’s still a useful player even if he doesn’t shoot — think a jumbo, rim-threatening version of Bruce Brown. And if he shoots even halfway decently, he has a pretty good runway to being an NBA All-Star.
3. Scottie Barnes, SF, Florida State, Freshman
I’m really surprised Barnes isn’t getting more buzz. He could easily end up as the best player in this draft and has a case for being the top pick.
Again, the search for big wings comes first at the NBA level, and everything comes later — and the playoffs are showing why. Barnes has weaknesses, and we’ll get to them in a minute, but there is early Spurs-era Kawhi Leonard upside here as well.
For starters, for a player who is supposed to be terrible at offense, Barnes’s offensive numbers are pretty darned good. He came off the bench for a relatively slow-paced team and that muted his counting stats, but Barnes averaged 23.8 points per 100 possessions — similar to the rate of most other first-round hopefuls — and shot 56.1 percent inside the arc. Both numbers increased in ACC play when the Seminoles played their most difficult competition.
Barnes showed an ability to get all the way to the cup under his own steam, something he should be able to do much more in the open floor that the NBA offers. Even against defenders that lay off him, Barnes chews up space with huge strides and, at 6-foot-9, can finish over any guard, which allowed him to generate rim attempts despite lacking explosiveness.
Despite his huge size, Barnes loves to play defense and often checked opposing point guards. I don’t mean switches, either; this was his primary assignment. With his long arms and relentless motor, he frequently picked the dribble of ballhandlers on the perimeter. He offers the kind of switchable “checkmate” defensive answer that every team craves, possessing the size to check interior players but also the quickness and hands to switch onto any perimeter threat. All the background on him is fantastic, too.
Barnes has warts, particularly in his shooting and his lack of off-the-dribble turbo gear, and that could put a cap on his offensive upside. He doesn’t rebound well for his size and was outplayed by Michigan’s Franz Wagner (see below) in an NCAA tournament game. His downside looms if the shooting doesn’t make him playable at the end of games.
That said, I remain amazed he isn’t getting more buzz. For comparison, Patrick Williams came off the bench for Florida State a year earlier and ended up as the fourth pick in the draft, and Barnes’ tools and production dwarf Williams’. As the draft’s No. 2 on-the-ball prospect, he compares favorably to Cunningham on defense and distribution but pales next to him as a shooter.
As ever, shooting is the swing skill, and it’s why I rate Cunningham higher. Barnes’ floor is just much lower because of the shooting question. Nonetheless, I happen to think Barnes is so skilled in other respects that he’s still a useful player even if he doesn’t shoot — think a jumbo, rim-threatening version of Bruce Brown. And if he shoots even halfway decently, he has a pretty good runway to being an NBA All-Star.
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Capella
Footballguy
He’s really underselling how important the shooting aspect is. It’s not a “swing skill” — it’s the most important thing you can bring to the table today.
As always with the FSU guys I am extremely rooting for him, I just don’t know if a team should take a chance that high. He can get to the rim though. Everything else about him looks great.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I think he will be and think it would be a mistake if he isn't. This draft seems to be a top 5ish draft with no guarantees, but a lot of very goods. I am not taking a guy I have to teach to shoot in a draft like this. Shooting is just too important in the game today.
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wikkidpissah
Footballguy
any team that drafts a player for their rebounding skills deserve what they get. there's no creasehangers, very little scrum under the basket any longer because half the shots are treys so the percentage play is getting back. while it's good to have an o-boarder, a little muscle under the hoop, it's a skill like 1B in baseball. no one drafts first-basemen in the first round. players become 1B when they cant field 3B or OF, but have decent power/OBP.. Paul Silas can stop filing his elbows, kidz. no one blocks out unless its their only chance to make the team/lineup. fuhgit boaaahds.
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Capella
Footballguy
Yes the days of Dennis Rodman are gone. Seems like 2/3 of these rebounds are totally uncontested now.
I dunno about Barnes. Seems like a good dude who will work to get better but those shooting numbers are hard to imagine getting better. Guess if the magic took him at 5 I wouldn’t be mad, not like they’re ever going to do anything right anyways.
Moe.
Footballguy
People seem to think there's a chance the Raptors will take him at 4. If that's the case I'm hoping for Kuminga at 6.
caustic
Footballguy
That’s interesting, hadn’t heard that yet. IMO Suggs makes all sorts of sense for Toronto — probably available at 4 since Cleveland isn’t likely to take another PG, and Lowry might be leaving this summer. Seems like a great fit on paper but I dunno.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Barnes is likely to be the best player available @ 1.06, to be sure - he's just less likely to come into his own with Bazleys & Pokus flying around the floor trying to do stoopitgreat stuff. time for Presti to condense the capital he's built for another cog (Simmons? LaVine? Myles Turner?) or to move up for the 1.02 for Mobely
Moe.
Footballguy
I would guess there are 3 core guys the Thunder care about and they can all shoot, so maybe they think they can carry a guy like Barnes who can guard anyone.
I know nobody watched the Thunder this year, but Daigneault is a really really good coach who seems to want to play 5 out on offense, which is why people like Barnes there I think.
Moe.
Footballguy
Simmons would be perfect, and I'd love to see where they'd put him. I just don't think Kemba Walker + picks would be enough for Philly, who needs to win now. Kennrich Williams is a decent trade piece for the Thunder, he'd be great on a good team, but probably doesn't move the needle at all for other teams.
scoobus
Footballguy
Moe.
Footballguy
Dort, Dort, and Dort.
edit: Poku and SGA. Maledon and Bazley are probably part of their plans but they can't shoot so it didn't fit my narrative therefore I excluded them.
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scoobus
Footballguy
Ok, was wondering if you were including Bazley, who hasn’t shot well at all, or if he had fallen out of favor with the organization.
DJackson10
Footballguy
BTW it was Jimmy Butler who got Joel Embiid to get a better work ethic not a lot to do with the Sixers or Org. He's credit Butler for that. If he doesn't extend in Philly I could definitely see Joel trying to team with Butler if the situation make sense.msudaisy26 said:
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Kemba would be difficult cuz the Philly public would land on mgmt for taking another used Celtic. but the market for him is up-in-the-air and, when that happens, a flurry of 1s is the cure-all for GMs in jeopardy. jussohappens Presti's got a flurry of cure-alls to wave.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Stephane A Smith says Warriors could push for Ben Simmons. Not saying it'll happen but things are percolating and calls have already been made.
modogg
Footballguy
I almost always stop reading after i see "Stephen A. says". All rumors at this point, and if anything coming more from Warriors side. Sixers just do not have a ton of reason to push for a SImmons trade now with his value still so low. Unless the deal is pretty spectacular, it just doesn't make a ton of sense.
Everybody pushing this "trade Simmons" narrative is simply looking at 6-7 out of the 12 playoff games they played, and ignoring the other 6 he played well in and the majority of the regular season. all of this media and goofy fanbase pushing it are also forgetting how horrible the Sixers looked when Simmons was out of the line-up when they were relatively healthy with everyone else.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Lets be realistic. I think Ben is finished in Philly. I don't think there is any resealable argument at this point that benefits Ben or the Sixers staying in this relationship. It seems pretty fractured. You got your second best player after the game throwing Ben under the bus, a ton of media pressure now and a coach who usually defends his players just couldn't do it in Doc. Most of the fanbase has now turned on Ben. I would say start of last year at least 75%-80% of Fans were on his side. Now I think it's about 75% who want him gone now. A lot of signs are pointing Ben won't be in Philly next year. For the player and teams benefit there is just no reason for them to stick together past this offseason. Ben at the very least needs a clean slate and change of scenery and the Sixers need to get themselves away from the headache
Yes there won't be many reasonable deals but thats on the Sixers for keeping the player till he had poor trade value. This is a organization who kept Allen Iverson 3 yrs past expiration date where they ended up with Joe Smith and Andre Miller and 2 1st which ended up having the one pick traded for Jason Smith and the other some Finnish player that never played. But these are the risks you run. If the Sixers wanted to trade Simmons it should've been at least a year or 2 ago. I know I wasn't the only one preaching or harping on the fact the 76ers needed to trade Ben sooner because this is exactly what was gonna happen.
In the end I think realistically 76ers fans aren't gonna be too pleased with what they get back trade wise for the guy unless they sucker some team in.
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msudaisy26
Footballguy
It would be dumb of them. They already have their version of Simmons. However, the 7th and 15th pick for Simmons is about what the 76ers should expect in a deal.
mr. furley
Footballguy
mr. furley
Footballguy
and they just hired Kidd as HC
might as well just cancel the NBA for the next 8 years because the Mavs are about to win all the titles
DJackson10
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
But the comedic value would be off the charts. Philly fans hate Simmons, imagine a season of Wiggins. Imagine the Warriors playing 3 on 5 on offense.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Also I think @msudaisy26 proposal from GS the 2 firsts for Ben is reasonable at this stage. I don't know salary wise if it works and maybe GS has to throw in a bad contract as well well but the Sixers won't be getting anything worthwhile here. No very good to great player is getting traded. Theres no Lillard/McCollum/Beal/etc coming in a package for Simmons unless Maxey/Thybule and other ACTUAL ASSETS are involved. The Sixers might even have to package their 1st this year or a couple of 2nds in with Simmons.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
i'm better at the evals than i am the deets, so can anyone tell me the cap implications should Draymond beat Ben Simmons to death with the kid's shooting arm a month in after this trade?
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Tom Hagen
Footballguy
It would almost have to be a 3 team deal. The Sixers can’t waste a couple years of Embiid waiting for picks to develop.
mr fancypants
Footballguy
It's just all due diligence at this point with Stephen A. doing what he does best.
Another rumor being circulated around is the dubs are having conversations with the Cavs with packaging the 7th and 14th + other considerations in order to try and move up into the 3rd slot.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Fantastic start by the refs here. 
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Ha, and that may have been the worst one.
ETA - that 2nd foul on Middleton
ETA - that 2nd foul on Middleton
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