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2020-21 NBA *Playoffs* Thread: Bucks are the champs and you can take that to the bank bromigos


Capella

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1 minute ago, EYLive said:

LBJ makes his teammates better. He could pad his stats even more if all we do is look at numbers like this. He's simply a better basketball player 

I agree LBJ is the better basketball player.  Just feel like Embiid is having a better season than him though.

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8 hours ago, Jayrod said:

This is the reason I can't stand Draymond.  I like his hustle, non-stat effective on his team, but his complete disrespect of officials is off-putting.

They are people too, doing the absolute best they can at an incredibly difficult job.  All he ever does is try and manipulate them, flail and flop, but then get mad when he thinks they are wrong.  Most of the time he's the one who is wrong and just constantly tries to show them up.

I’m still trying to rebuild my respect for the officials after the 2002 WCF’s.  Might never fully get it back.

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The Celtics are just not that good.  Their record is exactly where they are as a team...mediocre.

They have potential, but I don't like the current trajectory of things.  It is time for Stevens to work some magic.  I'm sure getting Smart back would help, but he brings some of his own offensive struggles at times.

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3 hours ago, SayWhat? said:

The sooner the Celts figure out that Kemba is simply mediocre, the better off they’ll be.  I’d be playing Pritchard as many minutes as Kemba if I were Stevens.

Kemba is still working back to form.  For a guy that relies on speed and precise timing to be great, it will take a bit.

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4 hours ago, Deamon said:

Lebron: 25.9P, 8.2R, 7.9A, 1.0S, 0.4B, 51FG%, 70FT%
Joel: 30.5P, 11.0R, 3.2A, 1.3S, 1.3B, 55FG%, 85FT%

Why is Lebron still such a heavy Vegas favourite to win MVP?

Jokic is playing better than them both, but his team's record is holding him down in the voting.

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1 minute ago, Jayrod said:

Jokic is playing better than them both, but his team's record is holding him down in the voting.

In terms of numbers, Jokic and Embiid are neck and neck.  But yes, record makes Jokic out of it as of now.

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  • Capella changed the title to 2020-21 NBA Thread: everything kinda boring right now tbh
15 minutes ago, Deamon said:

In terms of numbers, Jokic and Embiid are neck and neck.  But yes, record makes Jokic out of it as of now.

Jokic is #1 in the NBA in Winshares, WS/48, Box +/- and VORP.  The only advanced stat Embiid is leading is PER and Jokic is 2nd.

On the traditional stats, Embiid is ahead in PPG and blocks.  Jokic is ahead in the rest (inc. #6 in the league in steals/game?!?) and crushing him in assists.

Based on the statistics, Jokic is the best player in the league.

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11 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

Jokic is #1 in the NBA in Winshares, WS/48, Box +/- and VORP.  The only advanced stat Embiid is leading is PER and Jokic is 2nd.

On the traditional stats, Embiid is ahead in PPG and blocks.  Jokic is ahead in the rest (inc. #6 in the league in steals/game?!?) and crushing him in assists.

Based on the statistics, Jokic is the best player in the league.

Guess I was only looking at traditional stats.  Assists is the only one Jokic is significantly above in.  The rest of the ones he is leading in are close.  I don't know what the heck ESPN's "player efficiency rating" is but Embiid is #1 in the league in that (Jokic #2)

Jokic also logs more minutes per game...  If you look at per 48 minutes, Embiid leads in Points, Rebounds, Blocks.  Jokic leads in Assists, Steals.  Like I said, their stats are CLOSE, but I admit Jokic's are slightly better.  But he has his team 7th in the west and he has been on the (very slight) downswing lately in stats as Embiid has been on the upswing.  Jokic probably has a better chance to keep up the pace the rest of the season, but was just talking about stats to date.

Anyways my OP wasn't about Jokic.  I think the award is Lebron's to lose, I just don't know why when Embiid is having such a better season than him.
 

Edited by Deamon
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44 minutes ago, Deamon said:

Guess I was only looking at traditional stats.  Assists is the only one Jokic is significantly above in.  The rest of the ones he is leading in are close.  I don't know what the heck ESPN's "player efficiency rating" is but Embiid is #1 in the league in that (Jokic #2)

Jokic also logs more minutes per game...  If you look at per 48 minutes, Embiid leads in Points, Rebounds, Blocks.  Jokic leads in Assists, Steals.  Like I said, their stats are CLOSE, but I admit Jokic's are slightly better.  But he has his team 7th in the west and he has been on the (very slight) downswing lately in stats as Embiid has been on the upswing.  Jokic probably has a better chance to keep up the pace the rest of the season, but was just talking about stats to date.

Anyways my OP wasn't about Jokic.  I think the award is Lebron's to lose, I just don't know why when Embiid is having such a better season than him.
 

Are you going to ignore the Conference they play in?  The 4th place team in the Eastern Conference is 1 game over 0.500.  The 9th place team in the west is at 0.500.   The team to beat in the East (the Nets) have had very few games with their guys healthy.   In brutal honesty---Phili was by default going to be a dominant team in the East under the circumstances.   What Lebron is doing at his age is exceptional. What Embiid is doing this season is how he should have been playing every season. Love the dude--but in ths past--he was either out of shape or he made things way to easy on defenders by floating out to the 3pt line way too much. 

Edited by jvdesigns2002
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Just now, jvdesigns2002 said:

Are you going to ignore the Conference they play in?  The 4th place team in the Eastern Conference is 1 game over 0.500.  The 9th place team in the west is at 0.500.   The team to beat in the East (the Nets) have had very few games with their guys healthy.   In brutal honesty--under the circumstances--Phili was by default going to be a dominant team in the East under the circumstances.   What Lebron is doing at his age is exceptional. What Embiid is doing this season is how he should have been playing every season. Love the dude--but in ths past--he was either out of shape or he made things way to easy on defenders by floating out to the 3pt line way too much. 

Yes I think the Lakers as a 2 seed in West is more impressive than the 1 seed in the east.  But Denver being a 7 seed currently, with a worse record than Philly, puts Jokic at a disadvantage from the record standpoint.  I'm not sure how much this weighs in MVP voting, but maybe it does.  Agree what Lebron is doing is crazy at his age, wondering if that matters and if it should matter.  Seems that MVP voters really buy into narratives a lot.  Should age matter?  Should Embiid's past seasons matter?  Maybe, maybe not.

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28 minutes ago, Deamon said:

Yes I think the Lakers as a 2 seed in West is more impressive than the 1 seed in the east.  But Denver being a 7 seed currently, with a worse record than Philly, puts Jokic at a disadvantage from the record standpoint.  I'm not sure how much this weighs in MVP voting, but maybe it does.  Agree what Lebron is doing is crazy at his age, wondering if that matters and if it should matter.  Seems that MVP voters really buy into narratives a lot.  Should age matter?  Should Embiid's past seasons matter?  Maybe, maybe not.

Hard to say--but I will say this. If Denver played in the East--they would be a top 3 seed.   With that said--I don't want to come across as saying that Embiid should not be in the conversation.  Dude absolutely is beasting this season and deserves to be one of the top candidates.  My only point was that looking at only the stats is arguably ignoring the huge differences in the strength of each conference.  

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Just now, jvdesigns2002 said:

Hard to say--but I will say this. If Denver played in the East--they would be a top 3 seed.   With that said--I don't want to come across as saying that Embiid should not be in the conversation.  Dude absolutely is beasting this season and deserves to be one of the top candidates.  My only point was that looking at only the stats is arguably ignoring the huge differences in the strength of each conference.  

Sure a top 3 seed. Philly would still have a better record and their stats would be very very close. 

I think this is a 2 man race. 

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39 minutes ago, Deamon said:

Yes I think the Lakers as a 2 seed in West is more impressive than the 1 seed in the east.  But Denver being a 7 seed currently, with a worse record than Philly, puts Jokic at a disadvantage from the record standpoint.  I'm not sure how much this weighs in MVP voting, but maybe it does.  Agree what Lebron is doing is crazy at his age, wondering if that matters and if it should matter.  Seems that MVP voters really buy into narratives a lot.  Should age matter?  Should Embiid's past seasons matter?  Maybe, maybe not.

No, you don't get bonus point for being old.

It seems like everyone has a different definition of MVP though.

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Just now, EYLive said:

No, you don't get bonus point for being old.

It seems like everyone has a different definition of MVP though.

I think you do. The narrative of LeBron being the oldest player ever to win it will carry some votes. 

As for everyone's definition, I mainly just mean the voters' definition. 

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5 hours ago, Jayrod said:

Kemba is still working back to form.  For a guy that relies on speed and precise timing to be great, it will take a bit.

Right, and he’s clearly not close to being there.  Kemba shouldn’t be taking 20+ shots unless he’s been straight 🔥.  When you’re 5 for 21, you’re not.

Especially in game with a 20 point lead, get Pritchard some more run.  He’s a better defender and quite honestly a better distributor right now.  No reason to force Kemba when he’s off, which unfortunately has been far too frequently this season.  And I get it, the Celts only hope this year is if Kemba is Kemba, but the Pels game was brutal.

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15 hours ago, Deamon said:

Lebron: 25.9P, 8.2R, 7.9A, 1.0S, 0.4B, 51FG%, 70FT%
Joel: 30.5P, 11.0R, 3.2A, 1.3S, 1.3B, 55FG%, 85FT%

Why is Lebron still such a heavy Vegas favourite to win MVP?

 

14 hours ago, EYLive said:

LBJ makes his teammates better. He could pad his stats even more if all we do is look at numbers like this. He's simply a better basketball player 

 

9 hours ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

Are you going to ignore the Conference they play in?  The 4th place team in the Eastern Conference is 1 game over 0.500.  The 9th place team in the west is at 0.500.   The team to beat in the East (the Nets) have had very few games with their guys healthy.   In brutal honesty---Phili was by default going to be a dominant team in the East under the circumstances.   What Lebron is doing at his age is exceptional. What Embiid is doing this season is how he should have been playing every season. Love the dude--but in ths past--he was either out of shape or he made things way to easy on defenders by floating out to the 3pt line way too much. 

 

9 hours ago, Deamon said:

Yes I think the Lakers as a 2 seed in West is more impressive than the 1 seed in the east.  But Denver being a 7 seed currently, with a worse record than Philly, puts Jokic at a disadvantage from the record standpoint.  I'm not sure how much this weighs in MVP voting, but maybe it does.  Agree what Lebron is doing is crazy at his age, wondering if that matters and if it should matter.  Seems that MVP voters really buy into narratives a lot.  Should age matter?  Should Embiid's past seasons matter?  Maybe, maybe not.

I assume we are all going to forget that Lebron has been basically Tanya Harding to Embiid as Nancy Kerrigan (had to look the name's up since it has been some years).

I love everyone talking about how old Lebron is and that is why he deserves it because Embiid sits too much. Well, Embiid wouldn't need to rest his sore back so much if he didn't significantly hurt it when Lebron pushed Embiid mid-air with both hands because he was too lazy to try and defend Embiid. 

 

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5 hours ago, SayWhat? said:

Right, and he’s clearly not close to being there.  Kemba shouldn’t be taking 20+ shots unless he’s been straight 🔥.  When you’re 5 for 21, you’re not.

Especially in game with a 20 point lead, get Pritchard some more run.  He’s a better defender and quite honestly a better distributor right now.  No reason to force Kemba when he’s off, which unfortunately has been far too frequently this season.  And I get it, the Celts only hope this year is if Kemba is Kemba, but the Pels game was brutal.

Yeah, I honestly think the Celts are better off without this Kemba

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5 minutes ago, Major said:
5 hours ago, SayWhat? said:

Right, and he’s clearly not close to being there.  Kemba shouldn’t be taking 20+ shots unless he’s been straight 🔥.  When you’re 5 for 21, you’re not.

Especially in game with a 20 point lead, get Pritchard some more run.  He’s a better defender and quite honestly a better distributor right now.  No reason to force Kemba when he’s off, which unfortunately has been far too frequently this season.  And I get it, the Celts only hope this year is if Kemba is Kemba, but the Pels game was brutal.

Yeah, I honestly think the Celts are better off without this Kemba

Can they realistically trade his contract?

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1 minute ago, Desert_Power said:

Can they realistically trade his contract?

when was the last time Danny actually made a trade, 2018? i am guessing with Kemba's degenerative knee, and large contract, he won't return much for any kind of trade they can actually make

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15 hours ago, SayWhat? said:

More reviews in this Celts-Pels game would be ideal.

:lol: right?! Jeeez, but WHAT A GAME!! EPIC comeback for my Pels! Still can't believe we pulled it off after we have choked away so many. Adams being out definitely changed our look on the floor, and it took them until third quarter to figure out a new game plan. Outstanding work by Josh Hart and he energized the rest of the crew I think with his hustle. I was still not super confident that we'd pull it off even when we forced overtime. I'll say they gifted Tatum a no travel call on his game-tying shot. And still not sure why Reddick got ejected, but it might have been the catalyst we needed to turn the tide.  A team as young as we are needs games like this to grow their confidence, IMO. Here's to more comeback W's!!

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7 minutes ago, Nathan R. Jessep said:

:lol: right?! Jeeez, but WHAT A GAME!! EPIC comeback for my Pels! Still can't believe we pulled it off after we have choked away so many. Adams being out definitely changed our look on the floor, and it took them until third quarter to figure out a new game plan. Outstanding work by Josh Hart and he energized the rest of the crew I think with his hustle. I was still not super confident that we'd pull it off even when we forced overtime. I'll say they gifted Tatum a no travel call on his game-tying shot. And still not sure why Reddick got ejected, but it might have been the catalyst we needed to turn the tide.  A team as young as we are needs games like this to grow their confidence, IMO. Here's to more comeback W's!!

i heard about the game and was wondering about the Reddick ejection myself. sounded like he went to give the ball back to the ref with some spin on the ball, so they ejected him? 

 

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Just now, modogg said:

i heard about the game and was wondering about the Reddick ejection myself. sounded like he went to give the ball back to the ref with some spin on the ball, so they ejected him? 

 

Yep, literally just spun the ball around another player to get it to the ref.  Now, he had gotten a warning for something else earlier in the game, but he must have said something when he spun it is all I could figure. Or the ref just had it out for him. 

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17 hours ago, SayWhat? said:

The sooner the Celts figure out that Kemba is simply mediocre, the better off they’ll be.  I’d be playing Pritchard as many minutes as Kemba if I were Stevens.

 

14 hours ago, Jayrod said:

Kemba is still working back to form.  For a guy that relies on speed and precise timing to be great, it will take a bit.

a liabilty is what he is, and i dont think there's a turnaround. we are seeing an odd thing - the sloppy side of positivity. it served Kemba well in Carolina, doing his best and that usually being the best in Carolina (the "forget it, Jake, it's Chinatown" of hoops). when he joined the Green he was too well-meaning to press his role in the wake of Kyrie, when the Stevens offenses actually needed him to, being point-oriented. the bubble happened, he lost his shot due to a knee, he lost his spot due to the two rising talents on the team.

Stevens did a smart thing rehabbing him early for this season - made him concentrate on being high-usage for shorter bursts of time, which was something that fit minutes-restrictions and the scheme. turns out to have been too much ego for an "it's all good" kinda guy. so Stevens has gone back to Tatum & Brown taking turns as the usage guy, which has reduced Kemba to the designated chukker and they aint falling cuz he has no rhythm not being on-ball. and his "It's all good" outlook keeps him from seeing how that hurts. he needs to get furious and he dont have it in him

meanwhile, like every coach in the league, Stevens has lost the ability to focus his players on important shots and important stops so there's no path to cooperation between his three usage guys. it's wasting an awful lot of talent and i guess i gotta become a Jazz fan if i wanna watch any kind of team concept in my favorite game.

Edited by wikkidpissah
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Ryan Saunders gone, and it's beyond time. Great story, the name means a lot to the franchise, but it's over. 

Obviously putting together KAT and D-Lo (and Beasley and Edwards and whomever else) was going to be a disaster defensively, but there's no way these guys should be 25th in scoring. 

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8 minutes ago, Frostillicus said:

Ryan Saunders gone, and it's beyond time. Great story, the name means a lot to the franchise, but it's over. 

Obviously putting together KAT and D-Lo (and Beasley and Edwards and whomever else) was going to be a disaster defensively, but there's no way these guys should be 25th in scoring. 

what's your opinion of this rook McDaniels? seems like the right kind of 4 for KAT. and is Edwards playing any D (i never get to see em)?

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8 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

what's your opinion of this rook McDaniels? seems like the right kind of 4 for KAT. and is Edwards playing any D (i never get to see em)?

McDaniels is really advanced defensively at this stage. I like him a lot. You're right that he's a great fit next to KAT, especially if he can put on some muscle. With Towns next to him he doesn't even need to be able to shoot, but he might be able to.

Edwards is playing the exact kind of defense I expected. Breathtakingly athletic, fundamentally flawed. Honestly he could end up an all-defensive team player in the future or end up a defensive sieve who is only good for scoring. Nothing would surprise me. 

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18 minutes ago, Frostillicus said:

McDaniels is really advanced defensively at this stage. I like him a lot. You're right that he's a great fit next to KAT, especially if he can put on some muscle. With Towns next to him he doesn't even need to be able to shoot, but he might be able to.

Edwards is playing the exact kind of defense I expected. Breathtakingly athletic, fundamentally flawed. Honestly he could end up an all-defensive team player in the future or end up a defensive sieve who is only good for scoring. Nothing would surprise me. 

y'know, i dont watch college ball anymore, so one of the ways i keep up w prospects is reading early on em and the AAU-era talk of the Edwards class was all McDaniel & Cole Anthony. he can let KAT loaf on D - body the bigger bigs and board - and do all the switching & rimrunning and then float out and let KAT have the post on offense. seems right. and the new coach just saw the job McD did on Siakam, so....

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5 hours ago, modogg said:

I love everyone talking about how old Lebron is and that is why he deserves it because Embiid sits too much. Well, Embiid wouldn't need to rest his sore back so much if he didn't significantly hurt it when Lebron pushed Embiid mid-air with both hands because he was too lazy to try and defend Embiid. 

 

his availability issues didn't just start with Lebron fouling him

he topped out at 64 games in a season. he's cracked 30 mpg three times in a his career (33 this year). he sits too much because he's been hurt and/or out of game shape for most of his career.

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46 minutes ago, mr. furley said:

his availability issues didn't just start with Lebron fouling him

he topped out at 64 games in a season. he's cracked 30 mpg three times in a his career (33 this year). he sits too much because he's been hurt and/or out of game shape for most of his career.

think you are comparing current Embiid to the Brett Brown Embiid years. 

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13 minutes ago, modogg said:

think you are comparing current Embiid to the Brett Brown Embiid years. 

he's averaging 1 more minute per game than his previous career high. 

i think what you're seeing is that's his physical limit per night. he's such a big guy it has to be taxing to play much more and hope to remain healthy for a full season + playoffs.

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they should hang a dumpster on a backboard and tell simmons to shoot threes at it and it would be perfect because he would still probably miss and then it would make it obvious to all of the world that he is the stat equivalent of an ok center from days gone by take that to the bank brodumpsterhans 

Edited by SWC
in fact if you have ever heard the saying that guy couldnt throw it in a dumpster that is about ben simmons take that to the bank
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Complaining about decades of officiating ineptitude is tiring. Can we just outsource this job to in Indian call center or something? Maybe crowdsource it remotely in real time to blind blues guitarists. Or just have Boston Dynamics build robots with AI but have the ego/snowflake tendencies programed out of them?

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56 minutes ago, Insein said:

:lmao: was just listening to a beat writer on a radio show and he was at the game and said the official call (which your vid mentioned as well) was "throwing the ball with force" :lol: Ref got his feelings hurt apparently. 

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keep finding myself listening to the Lowe Post podcast, but man does he get in to the numbers a little too deeply. sometimes i get why some people really hate analytics focused analysis when listening to him.

when he starts throwing around reasons why a player is good or bad like "statistically when you look at his per 36 minute assist to turnover ratio in road games against pacific division opponents in February since 2017 when his teams are at least 3 games over .500 and he's averaging more than 19 minutes per game, then he's the kind of guy you want in your 9 man rotation come playoff time if you're a 6 seed playing at home."

or he'll parse the ever living #### out of statistics for two players and use them in opposite ways.

"the team is +11 with him on the floor and -4 when he's off, but if you look at the reasons why it's because he's playing against the other team's 4th best player in non-crunch time minutes and his shooting percentages in those situations on backdoor cuts ending in and 1 situation....."
 

and the guy he's comparing to he'll laud for his team being -4 when he's on the floor and +6 when he's off because the player shoots 41% on open threes.

 

i can appreciate the in-depth look at the NBA in a way no one else is really doing it, but holy ####

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13 minutes ago, mr. furley said:

keep finding myself listening to the Lowe Post podcast, but man does he get in to the numbers a little too deeply. sometimes i get why some people really hate analytics focused analysis when listening to him.

when he starts throwing around reasons why a player is good or bad like "statistically when you look at his per 36 minute assist to turnover ratio in road games against pacific division opponents in February since 2017 when his teams are at least 3 games over .500 and he's averaging more than 19 minutes per game, then he's the kind of guy you want in your 9 man rotation come playoff time if you're a 6 seed playing at home."

or he'll parse the ever living #### out of statistics for two players and use them in opposite ways.

"the team is +11 with him on the floor and -4 when he's off, but if you look at the reasons why it's because he's playing against the other team's 4th best player in non-crunch time minutes and his shooting percentages in those situations on backdoor cuts ending in and 1 situation....."
 

and the guy he's comparing to he'll laud for his team being -4 when he's on the floor and +6 when he's off because the player shoots 41% on open threes.

 

i can appreciate the in-depth look at the NBA in a way no one else is really doing it, but holy ####

Yea they really take the fun out of it. Somebody tweeted this weekend you can really tell those who see basketball as a culture vs those who see it as a spreadsheet. 

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has lowe ever compared a quote point guard to the sixth best center from the 70s nope he hasnt that is the type of hard hitting analitix you will only find in then fbg basketball thread take that to the bank bromigos  

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2 hours ago, mr. furley said:

keep finding myself listening to the Lowe Post podcast, but man does he get in to the numbers a little too deeply. sometimes i get why some people really hate analytics focused analysis when listening to him.

when he starts throwing around reasons why a player is good or bad like "statistically when you look at his per 36 minute assist to turnover ratio in road games against pacific division opponents in February since 2017 when his teams are at least 3 games over .500 and he's averaging more than 19 minutes per game, then he's the kind of guy you want in your 9 man rotation come playoff time if you're a 6 seed playing at home."

or he'll parse the ever living #### out of statistics for two players and use them in opposite ways.

"the team is +11 with him on the floor and -4 when he's off, but if you look at the reasons why it's because he's playing against the other team's 4th best player in non-crunch time minutes and his shooting percentages in those situations on backdoor cuts ending in and 1 situation....."
 

and the guy he's comparing to he'll laud for his team being -4 when he's on the floor and +6 when he's off because the player shoots 41% on open threes.

 

i can appreciate the in-depth look at the NBA in a way no one else is really doing it, but holy ####

I used to religiously listen to Lowe, but he can get pretty boring. Honestly, basketball isn't too hard to analyze right now teams pretty much play the same way. If they can shoot the 3, good. If they can play defense, better. If they have basketball IQ best. 

My basketball time is split between player podcasts. Really enjoy Road Trippin (RJ amd Frye), No Chill (Gilbert Arenas), All the Smoke (Barnes and Jackson), and Rouge Bogues (Bogut). Also like Jalen and Jacoby for short rides. 

 

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  • Capella changed the title to 2020-21 NBA *Playoffs* Thread: Bucks are the champs and you can take that to the bank bromigos

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