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2020-21 NBA *Playoffs* Thread: Bucks are the champs and you can take that to the bank bromigos (4 Viewers)

Ok, I've been out for a bit.  Just caught up on 3 pages of pure silliness. 

Just to clarify;

1. MJ > Lebron > everyone else.  Every single metric we have to compare across eras says so.

2. Kobe had only one 1 MVP, was an inefficient volume scorer, played selective defense and wasn't as good as Duncan.  The posthumous hype is a little out of proportion.  He is at the back end of the top 12 all-timers, and putting him top 5 is silly.

3. Simmons > Middleton and deserves to be an All-Star.  His defense is Kawhi-like and he finishes in the lane as well as anyone in the league.  He is like the Rudy Gobert of guards. 

4. The Celtics are crapping the bed and Brad has got to change some things fast.  Brown and Tatum earned their All-star spots, now it's time to start winning.

 
Jayrod said:
Ok, I've been out for a bit.  Just caught up on 3 pages of pure silliness. 

Just to clarify;

1. MJ > Lebron > everyone else.  Every single metric we have to compare across eras says so.

2. Kobe had only one 1 MVP, was an inefficient volume scorer, played selective defense and wasn't as good as Duncan.  The posthumous hype is a little out of proportion.  He is at the back end of the top 12 all-timers, and putting him top 5 is silly.

3. Simmons > Middleton and deserves to be an All-Star.  His defense is Kawhi-like and he finishes in the lane as well as anyone in the league.  He is like the Rudy Gobert of guards. 

4. The Celtics are crapping the bed and Brad has got to change some things fast.  Brown and Tatum earned their All-star spots, now it's time to start winning.
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Well said.  Strongly agree with all 4.

 
wikkidpissah said:
meanwhile, like every coach in the league, Stevens has lost the ability to focus his players on important shots and important stops so there's no path to cooperation between his three usage guys. it's wasting an awful lot of talent and i guess i gotta become a Jazz fan if i wanna watch any kind of team concept in my favorite game.
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I guess great minds think alike.  This Celtics funk has me disinterested in them and I keep gravitating to the Jazz and find myself rooting for them in every game they play.

The maturation of Mitchell and the stabilization that Conley has brought this year (he was injured a lot last season I believe) has raised their team game up from good to great.  They belong at the top of the entire NBA with their combo of offense and defense and are a legit force that I honestly didn't fully see coming.  Foolishly, I was higher on the Nuggets despite their defensive losses which they are struggling to overcome.  Jokic is currently my favorite player to watch in the league, but the Jazz games excite me more than anyone else (especially when they are handing the Lakers their 4th straight loss).

I'm not abandoning the Celtics, but they are on the precipice of good/bad.  Don't see them moving to greatness this year, but I also don't see them continuing to tank and miss the playoffs either (they are currently 9th).  If they pick up another decent player and Kemba comes around they can move back up into the top 4 of the East and make another ECF.  If neither of those things happen, they will crawl in as a 7 or 8 seed and get bounced in the first round.

 
Jayrod said:
Ok, I've been out for a bit.  Just caught up on 3 pages of pure silliness. 

Just to clarify;

1. MJ > Lebron > everyone else.  Every single metric we have to compare across eras says so.

2. Kobe had only one 1 MVP, was an inefficient volume scorer, played selective defense and wasn't as good as Duncan.  The posthumous hype is a little out of proportion.  He is at the back end of the top 12 all-timers, and putting him top 5 is silly.

3. Simmons > Middleton and deserves to be an All-Star.  His defense is Kawhi-like and he finishes in the lane as well as anyone in the league.  He is like the Rudy Gobert of guards. 

4. The Celtics are crapping the bed and Brad has got to change some things fast.  Brown and Tatum earned their All-star spots, now it's time to start winning.
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I agree with number 1, semi-agree with number 2--I don't think he's top 5--but I do think he's in that top 6-8 range,  for the most part agree with number 3--he is an all star--and I won't fight too hard against the Middleton argument.  I think Middleton is also great--but I do think that the in this case--the rest of the teams roster will dictate whether a guy like Simmons or Middleton is "better" for that particular system. 

Do not agree with number 4 at all.  Having 2 all stars from a losing team is ridiculous when the best player on a winning team (Sabonis) is left out.   Having the second best player from a losing team be an all star when guys like Sabonis, Trae Young, and Collin Sexton (who have been the best players on their teams) don't get in does not make sense to me.  

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
I agree with number 1, semi-agree with number 2--I don't think he's top 5--but I do think he's in that top 6-8 range,  for the most part agree with number 3--he is an all star--and I won't fight too hard against the Middleton argument.  I think Middleton is also great--but I do think that the in this case--the rest of the teams roster will dictate whether a guy like Simmons or Middleton is "better" for that particular system. 

Do not agree with number 4 at all.  Having 2 all stars from a losing team is ridiculous when the best player on a winning team (Sabonis) is left out.   Having the second best player from a losing team be an all star when guys like Sabonis, Trae Young, and Collin Sexton (who have been the best players on their teams) don't get in does not make sense to me.  
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15-15 is winning :shuked:

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
I agree with number 1, semi-agree with number 2--I don't think he's top 5--but I do think he's in that top 6-8 range,  for the most part agree with number 3--he is an all star--and I won't fight too hard against the Middleton argument.  I think Middleton is also great--but I do think that the in this case--the rest of the teams roster will dictate whether a guy like Simmons or Middleton is "better" for that particular system. 

Do not agree with number 4 at all.  Having 2 all stars from a losing team is ridiculous when the best player on a winning team (Sabonis) is left out.   Having the second best player from a losing team be an all star when guys like Sabonis, Trae Young, and Collin Sexton (who have been the best players on their teams) don't get in does not make sense to me.  
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First off, the Celtics were a winning team when the all-star roster's were set.  It wasn't until this week that they fell below .500 and dropped below the 4/5 spot.  They have also lost their all-defensive "heart and soul of the team" guy in Smart for several weeks now and Walker is clearly not himself yet.  Brown and Tatum have been phenomenal in all phases of the game all season and have carried what is an island of misfit toys to this point.

Trae Young should have gotten in, but he would have had to take either Brown's, Simmons' or Lavine's spot.  I could see an argument over Lavine, but Brown and Simmons are much better 2-way players than Trae.  I think there is some resentment across the league toward Young for his foul hunting in the open court and his "empty" stats in losses.  He finished 11th among the East guards in NBA player voting.

Sexton does not deserve a spot by any metric.  Sabonis was up against Vucevic or Randle and they have both been better.

 
Sammy3469 said:
15-15 is winning :shuked:
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When the all stars were announced and for much of the season the Pacers were the 4th ranked team in the East --so I stand by the Sabonis argument big time.  People are saying the Celts lost Marcus Smart--but how about the Pacers trading Oladipo away for Levert only to find that he had a mass on his kidney?  That was a bigger loss than Smart by every metric.   We can agree to disagree--but what Sabonis has done so far this year with the Indiana team is far more impressive than what either Brown or Tatum have done with the Celtics.  

 
Ben Simmons is good at basketball when you discount the fact that he can't play 50% of the game

it's like celebrating a quarterback who can't throw a football, but when he does it's with his non-dominant hand. and when coaches talk to him about it he refuses to practice and learn how to throw with his correct hand. 

not just that he has tried and has poured thousands of hours in to throwing with either hand and just can't get to a pro level with it... but he actually says "nah, i'm good. i'm not going to try."

and people are like "no, that's cool. he doesn't have to try and get better. he can just suck at 50% of his responsibilities because i'm a fan of the team."

 
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Deamon said:
Yet he's a better shooter than your boi Giannis, TTTTBB
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so i basektball referenced it just to see if you were right and once again you are not anteater has a higher three point shooting percentage a higher two point shooting percentage and a higher free throw percentage while ben simmons does have a slightly overall higher field goal percentage but again your hot takery is noted take that to the bank brochachos 

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
When the all stars were announced and for much of the season the Pacers were the 4th ranked team in the East --so I stand by the Sabonis argument big time.  People are saying the Celts lost Marcus Smart--but how about the Pacers trading Oladipo away for Levert only to find that he had a mass on his kidney?  That was a bigger loss than Smart by every metric.   We can agree to disagree--but what Sabonis has done so far this year with the Indiana team is far more impressive than what either Brown or Tatum have done with the Celtics.  
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It wasn't Sabonis vs. Brown or Tatum though.  Sabonis is a PF/C.  Brown was labelled a guard and Tatum is clearly a SF.  He was up against Vucevic and Randle, who are both better than him.  Brown has been better than Tatum overall, but Tatum is the second coming of Kobe in most of the league's eyes.

And, BTW,  Smart is more valuable to the Celtics than Oladipo or LeVert were/are to the Pacers....but that's a whole other discussion.

 
mr. furley said:
Ben Simmons is good at basketball when you discount the fact that he can't play 50% of the game

it's like celebrating a quarterback who can't throw a football, but when he does it's with his non-dominant hand. and when coaches talk to him about it he refuses to practice and learn how to throw with his correct hand. 

not just that he has tried and has poured thousands of hours in to throwing with either hand and just can't get to a pro level with it... but he actually says "nah, i'm good. i'm not going to try."

and people are like "no, that's cool. he doesn't have to try and get better. he can just suck at 50% of his responsibilities because i'm a fan of the team."
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I think if you would say 25% of the game, I'd agree.  He is an exceptional passer and a very good scorer in the paint and off the break.  His shooting is the only thing keeping him from the elite, all-NBA level.

But I agree that his refusal to work on it enough to be even passable/decent is maddening.  It will quite possibly keep him out of the HOF.  He reminds me of Jason Kidd a bit, who was a similar super skilled PG at defense and passing, but struggled to shoot (not as bad, but it wasn't good either).  However, he was willing to try and shoot them and worked at it and is now probably one of the 5 best PG's in history and #10 all time in made 3's.

 
SWC said:
so i basektball referenced it just to see if you were right and once again you are not anteater has a higher three point shooting percentage a higher two point shooting percentage and a higher free throw percentage while ben simmons does have a slightly overall higher field goal percentage but again your hot takery is noted take that to the bank brochachos 
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:lmao:  Just brilliant. 

 
Jayrod said:
I guess great minds think alike.  This Celtics funk has me disinterested in them and I keep gravitating to the Jazz and find myself rooting for them in every game they play.

The maturation of Mitchell and the stabilization that Conley has brought this year (he was injured a lot last season I believe) has raised their team game up from good to great.  They belong at the top of the entire NBA with their combo of offense and defense and are a legit force that I honestly didn't fully see coming.  Foolishly, I was higher on the Nuggets despite their defensive losses which they are struggling to overcome.  Jokic is currently my favorite player to watch in the league, but the Jazz games excite me more than anyone else (especially when they are handing the Lakers their 4th straight loss).

I'm not abandoning the Celtics, but they are on the precipice of good/bad.  Don't see them moving to greatness this year, but I also don't see them continuing to tank and miss the playoffs either (they are currently 9th).  If they pick up another decent player and Kemba comes around they can move back up into the top 4 of the East and make another ECF.  If neither of those things happen, they will crawl in as a 7 or 8 seed and get bounced in the first round.
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you and @wikkidpissah and the rest of the C's fans would know better then a lot of us, but I have felt for the last 2 years or so that Tatum seems to be an issue. Think the team played like a team when Tatum was out and Brown was on his run. Tatum came back and hero ball seemed to come up again

 
mr. furley said:
Ben Simmons is good at basketball when you discount the fact that he can't play 50% of the game

it's like celebrating a quarterback who can't throw a football, but when he does it's with his non-dominant hand. and when coaches talk to him about it he refuses to practice and learn how to throw with his correct hand. 

not just that he has tried and has poured thousands of hours in to throwing with either hand and just can't get to a pro level with it... but he actually says "nah, i'm good. i'm not going to try."

and people are like "no, that's cool. he doesn't have to try and get better. he can just suck at 50% of his responsibilities because i'm a fan of the team."
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so averaging over 20 points a game, and scoring 42 on the Jazz, means he can't "throw a football like a QB"? i think you guys are great box score fans. don't actually watch Simmons play, but love to drool looking at box scores or hot takes all around. 

 
Jayrod said:
I think if you would say 25% of the game, I'd agree.  He is an exceptional passer and a very good scorer in the paint and off the break.  His shooting is the only thing keeping him from the elite, all-NBA level.

But I agree that his refusal to work on it enough to be even passable/decent is maddening.  It will quite possibly keep him out of the HOF.  He reminds me of Jason Kidd a bit, who was a similar super skilled PG at defense and passing, but struggled to shoot (not as bad, but it wasn't good either).  However, he was willing to try and shoot them and worked at it and is now probably one of the 5 best PG's in history and #10 all time in made 3's.
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to be objective here, i think to look at Ben's willingness you need to hear him in post game interviews and compare him to the current coaching staff. Sam Cassell seems to be a major catalyst to helping Ben's FTs and we are seeing it in game now. His aggression has stepped up too, and there is a noticeable between him now and early in the season. 

 
oh dont get me wrong i think ben simmons is a decent enough player i just start talking crap when guys like daemon go all ini kamoze here comes the hot taker and say hes better than anteaternintendo i mean my dad used to tell me the only thing you can do is stand up to a hot taker so thats what i do take that to the bank brochachos 

 
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Jayrod said:
I guess great minds think alike.  This Celtics funk has me disinterested in them and I keep gravitating to the Jazz and find myself rooting for them in every game they play.

The maturation of Mitchell and the stabilization that Conley has brought this year (he was injured a lot last season I believe) has raised their team game up from good to great.  They belong at the top of the entire NBA with their combo of offense and defense and are a legit force that I honestly didn't fully see coming.  Foolishly, I was higher on the Nuggets despite their defensive losses which they are struggling to overcome.  Jokic is currently my favorite player to watch in the league, but the Jazz games excite me more than anyone else (especially when they are handing the Lakers their 4th straight loss).

I'm not abandoning the Celtics, but they are on the precipice of good/bad.  Don't see them moving to greatness this year, but I also don't see them continuing to tank and miss the playoffs either (they are currently 9th).  If they pick up another decent player and Kemba comes around they can move back up into the top 4 of the East and make another ECF.  If neither of those things happen, they will crawl in as a 7 or 8 seed and get bounced in the first round.
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dont have anything to do w players, has to do w scheme. both Mitchell & Conley have played better ball than they are now and Jazz liabilities will be exposed in the playoffs. they are dominating because they are the only team in basketball still working for a shot and their big fella allows them to at least pretend to be stop oriented.

Celtics are screwed because players never stop loving iso and Stevens let the Jays fall in love with iso. there hasnt been a side2side play since Kemba came back/Smaaaat went out/not sure which and, without true PG skills, i dont think Maaaacus has the leadership skillz to wean them

it's happened before and come back, and nobody really cares but me, but my favorite game is screwed for a good while. when the players started taking the game from coaches, the smarter coaches like Stevens were still getting cooperation by convincing players that their individual brand advanced most efficiently with team wins, and wins come from shots, steals & stops. but that's gone now - players still learn what they're supposed to do during practices, but its their game once the whistle blows. everyone reaps the wild wind of proving who is better, rather than who plays better, putting performance on a bi-polar spectrum and placing the East champion Heat below .500 because their players only do shots & steals & stops when its win-or-go-home and causing the Clippers to lose to the Syracuse Nationals by 30 on nights they aint phylllin it.

 
Navin Johnson said:
Can we get back to the discussion of how crappy LeBron and Kobe were?  Philly boi has made this thread unreadable.
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i dont get involved in bickerfests but, just as i acknowledged that, though i wont watch him play unless i have to, LeBron is the most indomitable athlete i've ever seen, i must aver that, tho i didnt like Kobe before the rape...........5 seconds left, sink this or go home, Kobe gets the ball over anyone i've seen

 
Jayrod said:
I think if you would say 25% of the game, I'd agree.  He is an exceptional passer and a very good scorer in the paint and off the break.  His shooting is the only thing keeping him from the elite, all-NBA level.

But I agree that his refusal to work on it enough to be even passable/decent is maddening.  It will quite possibly keep him out of the HOF.  He reminds me of Jason Kidd a bit, who was a similar super skilled PG at defense and passing, but struggled to shoot (not as bad, but it wasn't good either).  However, he was willing to try and shoot them and worked at it and is now probably one of the 5 best PG's in history and #10 all time in made 3's.
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:goodposting:

now there's a reasonable and rational understanding.

 
wikkidpissah said:
i dont get involved in bickerfests but, just as i acknowledged that, though i wont watch him play unless i have to, LeBron is the most indomitable athlete i've ever seen, i must aver that, tho i didnt like Kobe before the rape...........5 seconds left, sink this or go home, Kobe gets the ball over anyone i've seen
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He was under 25% to tie or take the lead in such scenarios IIRC.  I'll take the ball in CP3's hands to make the best decision all day every day.  And I am not a big CP3 fan.

 
modogg said:
so averaging over 20 points a game, and scoring 42 on the Jazz, means he can't "throw a football like a QB"? i think you guys are great box score fans. don't actually watch Simmons play, but love to drool looking at box scores or hot takes all around. 
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as a rookie Brandon Jennings hung 55 on the Warriors. only the 9th rookie in NBA history to that point to score 50+ in a game.

only George Mikan, Elgin Baylor, Wilt Chamberlain, Rick Barry, Earl Monroe, Elvin Hayes, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Allen Iverson had done it before.

so what i'm saying is scoring 40 pts is pretty meaningless

 
wikkidpissah said:
i dont get involved in bickerfests but, just as i acknowledged that, though i wont watch him play unless i have to, LeBron is the most indomitable athlete i've ever seen, i must aver that, tho i didnt like Kobe before the rape...........5 seconds left, sink this or go home, Kobe gets the ball over anyone i've seen
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I love me some Kobe but Ill take Larry Bird or Jordan. 

I know who is not on that list.  :stirspot:

 
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SWC said:
so i basektball referenced it just to see if you were right and once again you are not anteater has a higher three point shooting percentage a higher two point shooting percentage and a higher free throw percentage while ben simmons does have a slightly overall higher field goal percentage but again your hot takery is noted take that to the bank brochachos 
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This year's stats:

Giannis:  55.5 FG%, 66.3 FT%

Ben: 56.7 FG% (better), 67.5 FT% (better)

 
Jayrod said:
It wasn't Sabonis vs. Brown or Tatum though.  Sabonis is a PF/C.  Brown was labelled a guard and Tatum is clearly a SF.  He was up against Vucevic and Randle, who are both better than him.  Brown has been better than Tatum overall, but Tatum is the second coming of Kobe in most of the league's eyes.

And, BTW,  Smart is more valuable to the Celtics than Oladipo or LeVert were/are to the Pacers....but that's a whole other discussion.
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I understand your point about the all star team not being about Sabonis being against thos guys in regards to the format of the voting--but that format is bogus.  In all star games--very rarely do they use traditional lineups--and a guy like Sabonis could very well be used the same way that guys like Brown or Tatum or used in an all star event.  I completely disagree with you about the importance of Smart to the Celtics having the same importance to that of a healthy Levert/Oladipo to the Pacers.  The Pacers would be a complete team with a healthy Levert/Oladipo. You add a player that is a playmaker that is capable of scoring 20+ points to that lineup on a consistent basis--that team leapfrogs every team in the east with maybe the exception of a healthy Nets, Sixers team.  I believe that they could easily be Milwaukee level.  The Pacers losing an oladipo/levert type player is a far greater loss than what the Celics have experienced. 

 
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mr. furley said:
Ben Simmons is good at basketball when you discount the fact that he can't play 50% of the game

it's like celebrating a quarterback who can't throw a football, but when he does it's with his non-dominant hand. and when coaches talk to him about it he refuses to practice and learn how to throw with his correct hand. 

not just that he has tried and has poured thousands of hours in to throwing with either hand and just can't get to a pro level with it... but he actually says "nah, i'm good. i'm not going to try."

and people are like "no, that's cool. he doesn't have to try and get better. he can just suck at 50% of his responsibilities because i'm a fan of the team."
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I didn't know "50% of the game" is shooting 3s.  3-Time NBA all-stars do not "suck at basketball"

Another cowardly exaggeration just for attention.
 

 
mr. furley said:
as a rookie Brandon Jennings hung 55 on the Warriors. only the 9th rookie in NBA history to that point to score 50+ in a game.

only George Mikan, Elgin Baylor, Wilt Chamberlain, Rick Barry, Earl Monroe, Elvin Hayes, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Allen Iverson had done it before.

so what i'm saying is scoring 40 pts is pretty meaningless
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so your thoughts are teams should be scoring near 220 a night if you want each guy on the team to score near 50 with 1 ball on the court?

has basketball turned into a 1:1 thing now with guys shooting open shots, no play calls or anything?

maybe you are just coaching Jay Tatum now?

 
SWC said:
oh dont get me wrong i think ben simmons is a decent enough player i just start talking crap when guys like daemon go all ini kamoze here comes the hot taker and say hes better than anteaternintendo i mean my dad used to tell me the only thing you can do is stand up to a hot taker so thats what i do take that to the bank brochachos 
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Never once said he was better than Giannis... link?  Giannis is better for sure. 

I said he was currently (this season) a better shooter.  And he is.

 
Deamon said:
Never once said he was better than Giannis... link?  Giannis is better for sure. 

I said he was currently (this season) a better shooter.  And he is.
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I don't want to get sucked into this Simmons discussion--but as a person that played basketball for over 20 years--you can't just look as percentages to make statements like this.  If you are inferring that he's a better "shooter" due to percentages-- that is an incomplete analysis. One's willingness to take a shot from different areas of the court has a lot do with their percentages.  Giannis might not be a great 3pt shooter--but the fact that he's willing to take them does force the defense to play him a little more honestly.  So effectively Giannis does sacrifice some of his FG% for the sake of forcing defenders to play him a little closer.  Simmons is a highly efficient player from the field--but his lack of willingness shoot from the perimeter and expand his range has prevented him from going from all star level to elite superstar level.   Look at Lonzo Ball.  A couple years ago--people in this same forum were clowning him and saying he was one of the worst 3 point shooters in the league.  While he's certainly no Ray Allen or Reggie Miller--his game has become far more dynamic in just a year or two.  Like him or not--he's a much harder player now to defend than he was 2 years ago.   I don't think anybody here is arguing against Simmons numbers--people are just frustrated by his lack of willingness to shoot from beyond his extreme comfort level.  

 
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jvdesigns2002 said:
I don't want to get sucked into this Simmons discussion--but as a person that played basketball for over 20 years--you can't just look as percentages to make statements like this.  If you are inferring that he's a better "shooter" due to percentages that is an incomplete analysis. One's willingness to take a shot from different areas of the court has a lot do with their percentages.  Giannis might not be a great 3pt shooter--but the fact that he's willing to take them does force the defense to play him a little more honestly.  So effectively Giannis does sacrifice some of his FG% for the sake of forcing defenders to play him a little closer.  Simmons is a highly efficient player from the field--but his lack of willingness shoot from the perimeter and expand his range has prevented him from going from all star to elite superstar level.   Look at Lonzo Ball.  A couple years ago--people in this same forum were clowning him and saying he was one of the worst 3 point shooters in the league.  While he's certainly no Ray Allen or Reggie Miller--his game has become far more dynamic in just a year or two.  Like him or not--he's a much harder player now to defend than he was 2 years ago.   I don't think anybody here is arguing against Simmons numbers--people are just frustrated by his lack of willingness to shoot from beyond his extreme comfort level.  
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Agree with pretty much all of this. 

I, like you, believe Simmons is a great player who is one of the top 25 basketball players in the world, but his lack of ability to shoot the 3 or a long range jumper is keeping him from being an elite/superstar/top 10 player in the league.  No arguments there at all.  The arguments are against those who say that he is not a great player, or that he's undeserving of any of his 3 All Stars.

 
the important 50% about Simmons is that he's an All-Star (meh) and we're only seeing about half of what he could be. he's all in his head, for good or ill, Brett Brown sealed him in there in basketball terms and we wont see all of it til someone he respects puts him in charge of a team. there's a lot in almost every athlete that needs help coming to the fore - Simmons's is just more obviously silly to everyone but him

 
modogg said:
so your thoughts are teams should be scoring near 220 a night if you want each guy on the team to score near 50 with 1 ball on the court?

has basketball turned into a 1:1 thing now with guys shooting open shots, no play calls or anything?

maybe you are just coaching Jay Tatum now?
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i want to watch guys who are actually skilled at basketball not just guys who are really tall, or who are really great athletes but who can't play a lick of actual basketball.

 
Deamon said:
So you agree that he is an exceptional passer and very good scorer in the paint/off the break, yet he is 'awful at 50% of the game" and "has no actual basketball related ability".

Noted.
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i think you're starting to get it.. if you could just step back from the brink and think rationally it may finally stick?

 
mr. furley said:
Ben Simmons is good at basketball when you discount the fact that he can't play 50% of the game

it's like celebrating a quarterback who can't throw a football, but when he does it's with his non-dominant hand. and when coaches talk to him about it he refuses to practice and learn how to throw with his correct hand. 

not just that he has tried and has poured thousands of hours in to throwing with either hand and just can't get to a pro level with it... but he actually says "nah, i'm good. i'm not going to try."

and people are like "no, that's cool. he doesn't have to try and get better. he can just suck at 50% of his responsibilities because i'm a fan of the team."
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So is Simmons more like early Michael Vick or just plain Tim Tebow?

 
I know there are only like 10 Pistons fans left, but for those of us remaining, this year has been pretty exciting. And Troy Weaver seems like an awesome GM. 

It sure seems like he got (at least) 3 rotation guys from this last draft. And that's with assuming he completely missed on Killian Hayes - which, obviously, its too early to say.

In addition to that, he signed Josh Jackson and Jerami Grant. And since the trade, Dennis Smith, Jr. has been really solid to good. Hell, even Mason Plumlee has played well.

Obviously none of these guys are stars - and you don't win in the NBA without stars. But they sure do have a lot of future solid to good young rotation guys that they didn't have a year ago. If they hit with the high pick this year, they could really start to develop something.

 
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