2020-21 NBA Thread: AROD buys Timberwolves to satisfy lifelong dream of living in Minnesota

[modogg 4,941]

43 minutes ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

Hope they keep it together. I still refuse to believe they'll deal or not resign Lonzo.

TBH I think Lonzo's one of the most improved/underrated players in the league right now. He'll probably forever live in his younger brother's shadow but Lonzo's an extremely gifted PG that's unquestionably improved a lot. Guy is still just 23 (!!) I think too many folks want instant gratification. Yet, how soon we forget even Steph Curry's career didn't take off until 24.

Lonzo got ridiculed about his shot.......it's gotten fairly quiet now with him shooting 40+% from 30-something games into the season.

Zion's unstoppable going to the bucket. Ingram's one of the premier scorers in the league. Lonzo's one of the better PGs in the league (IMO). Pretty damn good trio. And I think Lonzo's exactly what the Pelicans need. Pay the FN man. If Pellies don't, promise someone will pay him handsomely this offseason. You just shelled out $18m/yr to Adams (!!) 

what is really impressive is the haul of picks they got from the Davis and Jrue trade. I still am sticking with Memphis as the team that will be a real joy in 3 years or so, but Pels certainly have more than enough pieces to make a multi-year run at the top 2-3 in the West. 

Will be interesting as Zion gets older how his body/game develops. Can go bad if he doesn't have a good team around him, and there doesn't seem to be any reason to think he will go the Shawn Kemp/Glen Davis route or anything.

Hah, just googled to see if any other popular NBA player grew out of shape, don't remember ever watching Oliver Miller:

https://www.amazon.com/1996-97-Z-Force-Oliver-Basketball-Trading/dp/B0821RLCDR

 

[wikkidpissah 19,164]

36 minutes ago, Brunell4MVP said:

My biggest complaint is that Deni Avdija is very very good and it isn't showing.  He rebounds, he defends, and he's got court awareness.  But offensively he is lost.  He has good O skills.  But it's like Beal and Westbrook are cutting him out. 

Hard to develop one's game when one is being coached to "get out da ####in' way!"

[Brunell4MVP 884]

4 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

Hard to develop one's game when one is being coached to "get out da ####in' way!"

to quote another one here .....  "Take that to the bank brohans"

[Leeroy Jenkins 3,045]

13 minutes ago, modogg said:

what is really impressive is the haul of picks they got from the Davis and Jrue trade. I still am sticking with Memphis as the team that will be a real joy in 3 years or so, but Pels certainly have more than enough pieces to make a multi-year run at the top 2-3 in the West. 

Will be interesting as Zion gets older how his body/game develops. Can go bad if he doesn't have a good team around him, and there doesn't seem to be any reason to think he will go the Shawn Kemp/Glen Davis route or anything.

Hah, just googled to see if any other popular NBA player grew out of shape, don't remember ever watching Oliver Miller:

https://www.amazon.com/1996-97-Z-Force-Oliver-Basketball-Trading/dp/B0821RLCDR

 

Oliver Miller had a decent run with the Suns.  Big wingspan IIRC.

[HellToupee 15,759]

13 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Oliver Miller had a decent run with the Suns.  Big wingspan IIRC.

Would’ve been something if he ever got into even decent shape. Guy ate himself out of the league 

[wikkidpissah 19,164]

47 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Oliver Miller had a decent run with the Suns.  Big wingspan IIRC.

probably had the next best footspeed for a big'n, behind only Zion, maybe Barkley. AND a sweet stroke

33 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Would’ve been something if he ever got into even decent shape. Guy ate himself out of the league 

tru dat

[SWC 15,746]

ben simmons went down a slide last night and missed the ground take that to the bank brohans    

[Insein 10,879]

Idk if this was posted already but I love this. 

5'6" kid covers Zion in high school

Some NSFW language

Edited March 3 by Insein

[Jayrod 4,974]

3

[Deamon 5,607]

5 hours ago, SWC said:

ben simmons went down a slide last night and missed the ground take that to the bank brohans    

Yet has a higher FG%, FT%, and now 3PFG% than Giannis.

#StillABetterShooterThanYourBoy

[Frostillicus 14,419]

Man, Schroeder is so important to the Lakers. Outside of Lebron and AD he's the only one who can get his own shot. The rest of these guys just stand around waiting for a pass. 

[Desert_Power 1,042]

19 hours ago, Brunell4MVP said:

I've watched every Wizards game this year.  Beal complains more that just about any player in the league.  That was no foul.  He slipped where Tatum had fallen on the layup.  Tough luck, but the bad is really Scott Brooks being out-coached every night.  He's not the worst coach in the league.  But Stevens out-coached him big time, as do others.  Especially in late game situations.  Rumor is the Wizards spend less than 15 mins on D at practice and Brooks doesn't watch film.  That's a bad combo.  Beal and Westbrook back him, but the only other coach Beal has played for is Randy Whitman.  I mean, if you are comparing anyone to Randy Whitman you likely think they are better.

That being said, Beal is a stud.  One of the best 3 scorers in the league.  He can get his shot anywhere.  He can beat people on dribble.  And he plays solid but not elite D.  He's very much like a short Kevin Durant.  Which is why you always would take Durant.  6" inches matter ... um, well you get the point.

The team is coming together.  Westbrook is a turnover machine, but he's starting to fit in better.  Bertans is finally hitting some shots.  Rui can't defend.  I think most coaches would have benched him but they don't have many other options.  The backups are decent.  Their bigs are not good.  Wagner is usually the best, but Lopez and Len have to be in the game when they face a bigger C.  It's a weak group.  They can't rebound at all.  My biggest complaint is that Deni Avdija is very very good and it isn't showing.  He rebounds, he defends, and he's got court awareness.  But offensively he is lost.  He has good O skills.  But it's like Beal and Westbrook are cutting him out.  Would love to see Brooks work more sets for Avdija to get to the hoop rather than stand at the 3 point line.   his offensive growth looks limited in the current offense.  Maybe there aren't enough balls to go around.

They might be a low level playoff team , but without a better strategic coach they will go nowhere.  Brooks contract ends this season.  Nobody expects him back.  

I haven't watched a ton of Wizards games, but agree with most of these points. Particularly that they are a mess at the 5 and Avdija is not getting the opportunities he needs at all. Maybe he will if they make a deal to move Beal.

[Anarchy99 6,345]

Can some one educate me on the value of PER (Player Efficiency Rating)? Is it considered a legit metric for comparison these days? The reason I ask, the #8 ranked player in PER in the NBA is none other than . . . Robert Williams of the Celtics. To give people an idea in terms of the rarified air he's breathing in, the players ranked just after him are named Curry, Beal, Harden, and James. His teammates Tatum, Brown, and Kemba rank 40, 26, and 77.

Is that stat just an outlier and Williams' production is really just a mirage? If not, why isn't he playing more than 15-16 minutes a game? When I have watched the Celtics, he gets points, rebounds, and blocks in the few minutes he plays. Is there some reason that he doesn't play more?

[SWC 15,746]

ben simmons tried to eat some soup for lunch and missed his mouth take that to the bank brochachos 

[wikkidpissah 19,164]

6 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Can some one educate me on the value of PER (Player Efficiency Rating)? Is it considered a legit metric for comparison these days? The reason I ask, the #8 ranked player in PER in the NBA is none other than . . . Robert Williams of the Celtics. To give people an idea in terms of the rarified air he's breathing in, the players ranked just after him are named Curry, Beal, Harden, and James. His teammates Tatum, Brown, and Kemba rank 40, 26, and 77.

Is that stat just an outlier and Williams' production is really just a mirage? If not, why isn't he playing more than 15-16 minutes a game? When I have watched the Celtics, he gets points, rebounds, and blocks in the few minutes he plays. Is there some reason that he doesn't play more?

i havent kept up with new-age stats, but Timelord is a perfect example of an outlier. From the moment he stepped on the court, you'd could see how dazzling he was. Dazzlingly good, dazzlingly bad. Useful, not so much - could only run forward, not backward, couldnt body anyone, has about the same belief in his shot as Ben Simmons. But he gets up over here from down over there with astounding speed, loves the pick & roll (as bad as he is @ picks) and actually has a good stroke.

As a result, he's always useful in short bursts and that's how Coach Stevens has used him. He's learned a few things and has become more task-willing this year, which are just now beginning to effect his usage. As soon as he has to body up Embiid or stay with Jokic, that'll go in the ####ter, but it creates unicorn #s for him. More ball-confident inside players who were inbetween positions sizewise like JRandle & DSabonis became stars by being the bench 5 and learning how their skills were useful there.

Timelord could be on that kind of track or a Jaylen Brown skill-by-skill trail, but it's still going to be some time, if ever, before he can play 30 minutes at that level. As a Celtics fan, i shonuff hope to see that someday

[Brunell4MVP 884]

5 hours ago, Desert_Power said:

I haven't watched a ton of Wizards games, but agree with most of these points. Particularly that they are a mess at the 5 and Avdija is not getting the opportunities he needs at all. Maybe he will if they make a deal to move Beal.

I actually would do this.  I don't think they will though.   I like Beal.  I have met him face to face several times regarding work deals.  He's a good guy with an excellent family.  He can win a championship with the right person next to him.  Problem is, the Wiz are in no position cap wise to get the true complimentary player with him.  Nor are they a big enough market that players will gravitate here.  Beal needs a top notch 4 or 5 to play with, or a team with a mass amount of shooters.  A PG like Westbrook (or Wall) doesn't really help his game.  He could play with any PG.  Westbrook has 5 TOs per game.  He's making too many mistakes to be of huge help to Beal.

If you could haul in some picks and a couple of youngish players for him, I think you would see major growth from Avdija, Rui, and even Bertans.  Maybe even Bonga who is totally incognito.  I'd probably get what I could for him.  Then next year bring in a coach that is better at sets and player management.  Then in 2 years Westbrook is gone and you can chase another quality FA.  Kind of a 3-4 year plan to get some of these young guys playing at a better level.  All Brooks does is tell everyone to give Beal and Westbrook the ball.  Limited strategy on both ends.

ETA:  I think both GSW and DEN are excellent landing spots for him. 

 

 

Edited March 3 by Brunell4MVP

[Anarchy99 6,345]

1 hour ago, wikkidpissah said:

i havent kept up with new-age stats, but Timelord is a perfect example of an outlier. From the moment he stepped on the court, you'd could see how dazzling he was. Dazzlingly good, dazzlingly bad. Useful, not so much - could only run forward, not backward, couldnt body anyone, has about the same belief in his shot as Ben Simmons. But he gets up over here from down over there with astounding speed, loves the pick & roll (as bad as he is @ picks) and actually has a good stroke.

As a result, he's always useful in short bursts and that's how Coach Stevens has used him. He's learned a few things and has become more task-willing this year, which are just now beginning to effect his usage. As soon as he has to body up Embiid or stay with Jokic, that'll go in the ####ter, but it creates unicorn #s for him. More ball-confident inside players who were inbetween positions sizewise like JRandle & DSabonis became stars by being the bench 5 and learning how their skills were useful there.

Timelord could be on that kind of track or a Jaylen Brown skill-by-skill trail, but it's still going to be some time, if ever, before he can play 30 minutes at that level. As a Celtics fan, i shonuff hope to see that someday

Time Lord certainly has his limitations. He’s really only useful near the basket and has plenty of room for improvement in his perimeter defense. But in the paint on offense or defense he’s fine. I watched the game last night and the Clippers were far more concerned with the other scorers on the C’s that Williams didn’t draw a lot of coverage and did not have a body on him very often. He ended up with with a line of 13-8-4 with 3 blocks in 22 minutes. Sure, playing a lot more minutes would probably see a decrease in his rate of production, but even being less talented he seems to put up similar or better numbers than Theis or Thompson in fewer minutes. Theis will shoot and make some threes, so he might be a bigger threat offensively, but he seems like he goes long stretches doing little on offense or defense. Not really fair to say he wouldn’t do much against Embiid or Jokic. The entire league struggles against them. 

I do find Time Lord’s game similar to my son, who played for years in HS and AAU. He got to 6’6” and 215 and was used as a C and PF. They would hardly ever call plays for him and he basically was instructed to be scrappy and make his own offense. He’d get a couple of close baskets and some free throws every quarter. By the end of the game he’d be in the 20-10-5 range for production on not a lot of shots. Even though he would almost always lead his team in scoring, no one really looked at him as having done all that much. Instead, they fell in love with kids that would chuck up tons of three pointers instead. Sure, they would be great when they made them but could miss 15 in a row. Not sure how the stats would compare who was more valuable. The player that scored a lot on interior shots with a high % or the one that sometimes might make 5 or 6 three pointers but didn’t do much else. 

[Deamon 5,607]

1 hour ago, SWC said:

ben simmons tried to eat some soup for lunch and missed his mouth take that to the bank brochachos 

Still a better shooter than Giannis

[mr. furley 12,403]

1 hour ago, Deamon said:

Still a better shooter than Giannis

are you counting only shots inside of 4 feet?

[Deamon 5,607]

Just now, mr. furley said:

are you counting only shots inside of 4 feet?

Better 3 point shooting percentage, Better free throw percentage, Better 2 point FG percentage.

[SWC 15,746]

ben simmons missed when he tried to put his pants on this morning take that to the bank bromigos 

[Deamon 5,607]

21 minutes ago, SWC said:

ben simmons missed when he tried to put his pants on this morning take that to the bank bromigos 

Still a better shooter than Giannis.

[Jayrod 4,974]

Robert Williams has a nice 15 ft set shot as well for when teams hang back too far off him.  His on ball defense has improved this year and even throughout this season as well.  He is earning more time as the season progresses and was in during crunch time last night.

[modogg 4,941]

Jazz shooting 56% from 3 while taking 36 attempts is going to be a tough out for any team. I don't think it is just a hot streak either

ETA: holy hell reading the last 8-10 pages of this thread is such garbage, true 

Do people not watch their own teams and root for them, or do they just watch Ben Simmons every chance they get?

Edited March 4 by modogg

[modogg 4,941]

Honestly, i don't care which team everyone is a fan of, Embiid is truly a special player. Sinking that step back 3 to tie it up for OT was just crazy for a guy like that. Amazing to think the guy never played basketball until he was 16.

If anything, it will be a tragedy if he can't keep his body healthy and have a long career for a 7'er.  

[Deamon 5,607]

3 minutes ago, modogg said:

Honestly, i don't care which team everyone is a fan of, Embiid is truly a special player. Sinking that step back 3 to tie it up for OT was just crazy for a guy like that. Amazing to think the guy never played basketball until he was 16.

If anything, it will be a tragedy if he can't keep his body healthy and have a long career for a 7'er.  

That 3 was absolutely nuts.  But the dude screaming in the background on this broadcast is brutal.

[modogg 4,941]

4 minutes ago, Deamon said:

That 3 was absolutely nuts.  But the dude screaming in the background on this broadcast is brutal.

lol, been thinking the same exact thing about the dude around the camera. it's funny i watch most games by streaming, and almost always get the away broadcast. Awesome hearing Alla, but man that dude chirping in the background is silly. 

and Mitchell, not good bud. Glad we have Embiid out there helping the officials to call the game

[rascal 1,737]

25 minutes ago, modogg said:

Jazz shooting 56% from 3 while taking 36 attempts is going to be a tough out for any team. I don't think it is just a hot streak either

ETA: holy hell reading the last 8-10 pages of this thread is such garbage, true 

Do people not watch their own teams and root for them, or do they just watch Ben Simmons every chance they get?

When nuggets play them it will be my second time to see him play.

[modogg 4,941]

Just now, rascal said:

When nuggets play them it will be my second time to see him play.

hopefully. Wish he would have been able to play that first one, but that was the game where i think the Sixers had 7 guys to play.

Will be fun seeing him against Jokic some more

[Deamon 5,607]

7 minutes ago, modogg said:

lol, been thinking the same exact thing about the dude around the camera. it's funny i watch most games by streaming, and almost always get the away broadcast. Awesome hearing Alla, but man that dude chirping in the background is silly. 

and Mitchell, not good bud. Glad we have Embiid out there helping the officials to call the game

@Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub had his "I bet against the Sixers" post all cued up and was about to hit Submit until Embiid hit that 3.  No dinner for his family tomorrow.

[Kev4029 1,483]

TJ Mcconnell with the triple double with 10 steals off the bench. Bonkers.

[Frostillicus 14,419]

Starting to think the Wolves might have some issues. 

[modogg 4,941]

19 minutes ago, Kev4029 said:

TJ Mcconnell with the triple double with 10 steals off the bench. Bonkers.

seriously, had 9 in the first half. Good for him.

Funny how everyone made fun of the Sixers when they tanked. Could have  a team with TJ, Chriatian Wood, Jerami Grant, Covington, etc.

What's funnier than that is to think where those guy's careers would be without the process. they never would have got the minutes and time to work on their game and develop. More so Covington and TJ then the others, but still...

[modogg 4,941]

4 minutes ago, Frostillicus said:

Starting to think the Wolves might have some issues. 

honestly, they should look to get whatever money they can and hire Hinkie, Presti or something like one of them. Should sell whatever they can and look to 3 years from now

[Encyclopedia Brown 2,692]

3 minutes ago, Frostillicus said:

Starting to think the Wolves might have some issues. 

I don't follow college hoops that closely but I keep seeing this Minnesota high school kid named Chet Holmgren as the #1 recruit in the country, and that he is a near certainty to be the #1 NBA pick after his one and done. 

I've read that he is Durant and Kevin Garnett rolled into one. 

Have you seen him play? 

[Frostillicus 14,419]

2 minutes ago, Encyclopedia Brown said:

I don't follow college hoops that closely but I keep seeing this Minnesota high school kid named Chet Holmgren as the #1 recruit in the country, and that he is a near certainty to be the #1 NBA pick after his one and done. 

I've read that he is Durant and Kevin Garnett rolled into one. 

Have you seen him play? 

Not live or anything.  Highlights suggest he is 7 foot with the point guard skills. Sounds pretty good. 

[TakiToki 435]

Interesting theme developing with the Bucks lately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0cAlCC5U7k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu5XVBpep_c

[Deamon 5,607]

47 minutes ago, Kev4029 said:

TJ Mcconnell with the triple double with 10 steals off the bench. Bonkers.

That's insane

[modogg 4,941]

7 minutes ago, TakiToki said:

Interesting theme developing with the Bucks lately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0cAlCC5U7k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu5XVBpep_c

 i saw that on reddit too. Man that is going to end bad, funny promo idea that i'm sure Bucks bought into for some extra cash, but man I give it 2 more games before we start seeing some R-rated stuff

[rascal 1,737]

58 minutes ago, Kev4029 said:

TJ Mcconnell with the triple double with 10 steals off the bench. Bonkers.

Steals??

[modogg 4,941]

7 minutes ago, rascal said:

Steals??

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/lxagbt/tj_mcconnell_tonight_16_points_88_fg_13_assists/

TJ McConnell tonight: 16 points (8-8 FG), 13 assists, 10 steals, and 0 fouls. The first points/assists/steals triple double with perfect shooting in NBA history!

[wikkidpissah 19,164]

1 hour ago, Kev4029 said:

TJ Mcconnell with the triple double with 10 steals off the bench. Bonkers.

like Boban, another former Sixer opponents exploited defensively back to a bench role who's beginning to thrive again now that no one harshes mismatches any more. wont be long now before the Return of the Leprechaun.

[Leeroy Jenkins 3,045]

10 hours ago, modogg said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/lxagbt/tj_mcconnell_tonight_16_points_88_fg_13_assists/

TJ McConnell tonight: 16 points (8-8 FG), 13 assists, 10 steals, and 0 fouls. The first points/assists/steals triple double with perfect shooting in NBA history!

My "aunt" is best friends with his grandmother.  

[modogg 4,941]

12 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

My "aunt" is best friends with his grandmother.  

he seems like a great guy out there. Pacers should release him and he should come back to Philly.

His dad is a coach, and i can see him being a fun coach when he eventually retires

[Major 1,604]

I'm trying but the Rockets are a brutal watch without C. Wood.  I had some hope when he was in the rotation but I think it's time to trust the process - trade Oladipo for picks/prospects to a contender and overtake Minn for that 1.1. 

Edited March 4 by Major

[Navin Johnson 519]

15 minutes ago, Major said:

I'm trying but the Rockets are a brutal watch without C. Wood.  I had some hope when he was in the rotation but I think it's time to trust the process - trade Oladipo for picks/prospects to a contender and overtake Minn for that 1.1. 

Don't the bottom 3 have identical odds for 1.1?

[Major 1,604]

10 minutes ago, Navin Johnson said:

Don't the bottom 3 have identical odds for 1.1?

I haven't followed any draft rule changes but that makes sense.  

[Jayrod 4,974]

29 minutes ago, Navin Johnson said:

Don't the bottom 3 have identical odds for 1.1?

Yes, bottom 3 have 14% chance each.  Then it is reduced gradually for each spot after that.

First 4 picks are drawn for and then the rest is locked in based on seeding (meaning the worst pick the bottom team would have is #5).  They did it to discourage severe tanking a bit by making it more of a luck factor for getting into the top 4.

[caustic 4,090]

Nic Claxton is emerging as a really nice depth piece for Brooklyn. Played great defense last night and has been efficient in the PnR. 

[wikkidpissah 19,164]

12 minutes ago, caustic said:

Nic Claxton is emerging as a really nice depth piece for Brooklyn. Played great defense last night and has been efficient in the PnR. 

stockpiled him in fantasy after the Harden trade cuz i figured someone was going to have to defend the guys Durant wont (AD, Freak, etc). a lot of rust to knock off and aint seen any D from him yet, but i liked him b4 he got hurt and the P&R off the Big 3 will be suhWEET