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This Is How On Edge People Are


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I've talked here in the PSF that I support Biden but this is the political forum. In all my communication to the Footballguys subscribers, I haven't talked about specific candidates.

Last night in the Random Shots column I closed with this: 

Quote

 

Wrapping with this one.

Not sure if you've heard, but America is having an election next week. It's been in the news a bit...

I realize full well you read Footballguys content for... wait for it... Football information. Shocker. So this is about as political as I get.

I wrote this in Week 8 of 2016.

"Serious note. Go Vote. It's the right thing to do. As I said last week, most every election is about more than the Presidential Race which gets so much attention. There are local offices and laws and referendums and all that. It's a privilege. Take advantage of it.

"And last thing. And this one is serious. By this time next week, the election will be over. If your candidate wins, please show some grace in victory. This has been a painful election season. And real damage has been done I feel. But it's damage that can be healed. IF, and that's a real "if", the side who wins initiates that healing. And it has to come from the winner. That's just how things work. God willing, we're going to have a new President-elect next week. If it's the person you've wanted to win, consider how the "other" side might be feeling. And don't rub it in. It's the only way I think we can move forward."

That feels even more true in 2020. Please show extra empathy. Show extra grace. If 2020 has taught us one thing it's that we're all in this together. We'll get through this too. But it'll take all of us.

 

 

I received this email responding to Random Shots.

Quote

Wish you hadn’t interjected your opinion on who you hope wins the next election. I liked you because I had no idea what your political affiliation was and you didn’t find it necessary to tell me every 5 minutes. I do not want to know what you think about elections or voting or politics in general. I want to know what you think about football and that’s it. Asking God to give us corrupt Biden is about as backwards as it gets, I’ll leave it at that. I’ve unsubscribed. Good luck. 

 

I guess he meant when I referenced my 2016 quote about extending grace and being cool to the other side to the president elect and hoping we do that this year, he took that to mean I was supporting Biden as he'd be the president elect. (I guess if Trump wins, he just stays technically stays president?) 

I just found it interesting in I felt like I went out of my way not to recommend a choice. And still failed to appear neutral. 

That's how much people are on edge. And I think it would have been the same the other way. Had I done something similar that might have been seen as recommending Trump, I'm sure I'd have received similar complaints. 

This is really neither here nor there. Just thought it was a good picture of how on edge we are. 

Be extra gracious. 

 

(Afternote) I edited the article online to make it clear.

 

 

 

 

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I guess on-edge is one way to describe it. Seems like a willful lack of comprehension to me. 

Absolutely 100%. The whole process takes far too long. The Presidential race has been officially ongoing for over a year and in reality it started over 3 years ago. There are individual Senate races w

That the Left though has managed to commandeer the concept that every American has the right and should vote shouldn't be the case.  It speaks negatively about The Right...and the Right doesn't seem t

I suspect its because the 2016 email said "new" President-elect. Which, of course, in 2016, there was no incumbent.

And now that person is thinking you mean "New President    -     elect." 

Not "new        President-Elect" (which, I'm sure, is what you meant). 

If that makes sense (hard to explain in writing).

Edited by whoknew
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Just now, whoknew said:

I suspect its because the 2016 email said "new" President-elect. Which, of course, in 2016, there was no incumbent. And now that person is thinking you mean New President    -     elect. Not new        President-Elect (which, I'm sure, is what you meant). 

If that makes sense.

Yes. I think that's how the guy saw it. 

I can see how he got there. Just to me seems like a good example of how on edge folks are. And a good reminder. 

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My house is an obvious Dem house surrounded by 3 houses with Trump signs. (It was 4 - one of them disappeared when he got diagnosed and hasn’t returned.) I also have people dropping by my house all day long picking up campaign literature to the point where if it wasn’t political season, I swear we’d probably look like a drug house. People pull up, grab an envelope from the boxes I have in front, and then leave.

Anyway, it’s all I can do to not buy an airhorn in the event Biden wins and go blaring it at 2am. But I’m too classy and also my girlfriend won’t let me.

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I'm not looking forward to the reaction if either candidate wins, but on a more personal note, this election day falls in my son's birthday, and 2016 fell on my younger daughter's. Nothing more than coincidence, but to have the election hanging over your head on your birthday would probably be annoying.

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It's interesting. 

I had beers on Wednesday after the 2016 election with two of my Trump voting friends. 

They bought for me and it was friendly and good. 

I think I may just have really good friends. But I wish more people could have what I have. 

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First off as somebody who is a strong supporter of President Trump with a lifetime FBG membership, it wasn’t me. 

But I have to disagree with you on the other way around part, if you came out in support of President Trump you would have dozens of emails much worse than that and people calling for boycotts.

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2 minutes ago, Megla said:

In this climate you should have just stuck to Fantasy Football

Probably. But Random Shots is barely football. It's more goofy Mike Nolan with Tabasco in his eye. But still, you may be right.

I'd hoped a "get out and vote and be kind to each other" would have not been too much but maybe it is. If so, that's another indication of how gracious and kind we probably should all try to be.

 

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Even encouraging people to vote can be viewed as taking a side these days where the interests of the two parties are perceived as being directly opposite when it comes to voter turnout. I can see how this guy could read quickly through this text and assume it was intended to support Biden. A careful reading obviously shows that’s not the case.  

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2 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:


“God willing, we're going to have a new President-elect next week.”

Seems pretty straightforward this is a pro-Biden statement 

That’s a quote from his 2016 email. If you read it quickly, that’s easily missed.  In 2016 that’s not a partisan statement. 

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And the good news it was all only online and I was able to edit early this morning. It wasn't written in the email that I couldn't edit.  So the vast majority will see it as it is now:

Quote

 

I wrote this in Week 8 of 2016.

"Serious note. Go Vote. It's the right thing to do. As I said last week, most every election is about more than the Presidential Race which gets so much attention. There are local offices and laws and referendums and all that. It's a privilege. Take advantage of it.

"And last thing. And this one is serious. By this time next week, the election will be over. If your candidate wins, please show some grace in victory. This has been a painful election season. And real damage has been done I feel. But it's damage that can be healed. IF, and that's a real "if", the side who wins initiates that healing. And it has to come from the winner. That's just how things work. ... If it's the person you've wanted to win, consider how the "other" side might be feeling. And don't rub it in. It's the only way I think we can move forward."

That feels even more true in 2020. Please show extra empathy. Show extra grace. If 2020 has taught us one thing it's that we're all in this together. We'll get through this too. But it'll take all of us.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

It's interesting. 

I had beers on Wednesday after the 2016 election with two of my Trump voting friends. 

They bought for me and it was friendly and good. 

I think I may just have really good friends. But I wish more people could have what I have. 

Had a good conversation with 2 friends this past weekend on our way to the river to fish.  One, been a long time democrat and very vocal of his dislike of Trump.  A person not worried about losing his guns (and he owns many and hunts quite a bit).  The other, about as non-gun owning as you can imagine...not all that political...but as we talked he did say he was voting for Trump.  Just prefers Republican policy to Democrat policy and is not a fan of Biden.  Because we are friends...we all respected each other...how we spoke, points brought up by either side.  

I think its possible to have that...but has to be respect between the two.  I think to often people just don't respect others.  And I am as guilty of that as anyone.  I try to be fair...I try to say respect is earned not just given. And while true...sometimes Im too quick to lose that respect for people.

I will leave it with this small clip of a speech, one that has continued to morph as this process has played out...and whether this happens in 2021 or 4 years later...I think it still rings true. (and still wish this man was the candidate).  Yes...its Trump driven...but it really can even play out the same if you remove Trump from the speech and talk about the day after this election.  We...and that is a collective We...We as a nation need to heal and do better...I think it starts with respect.  

Picture the day

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4 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Probably. But Random Shots is barely football. It's more goofy Mike Nolan with Tabasco in his eye. But still, you may be right.

I'd hoped a "get out and vote and be kind to each other" would have not been too much but maybe it is. If so, that's another indication of how gracious and kind we probably should all try to be.

 

You're quoting yourself from 2016, telling the winning side to show empathy to the losing side and that it has to come from them to be effective.  You need only look at how Trump supporters are treated in the PSL to understand this position is simply not true.

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5 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

Even encouraging people to vote can be viewed as taking a side these days where the interests of the two parties are perceived as being directly opposite when it comes to voter turnout. I can see how this guy could read quickly through this text and assume it was intended to support Biden. A careful reading obviously shows that’s not the case.  

It was more than a message to vote

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6 minutes ago, Megla said:

You're quoting yourself from 2016, telling the winning side to show empathy to the losing side and that it has to come from them to be effective.  You need only look at how Trump supporters are treated in the PSL to understand this position is simply not true.

But this thread and the solutions thread that was started is pointing out some of the issues.

What he is still saying is posting now or after the election things like..."Trump is dumb" "can't believe you XXXXX supported him", "you weakened us" are bad...but also so are the posts of "liberal salty tears" "this is glorius" "lol at the reactions on CNN" and so on.   That neither are helpful to positive discourse.  Its just more of the same back and forth blaming.  I think its important to understand how Trump supporters are treated as well as how they have treated others.  It has never been a one way street of poor treatment.

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Joe, I agree that in general we can all do a better job of keeping a level head/being respectful. But some people are just constantly looking for reasons to be angry. Sounds like this guy is one of them. Not much you can do about that.

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3 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

But this thread and the solutions thread that was started is pointing out some of the issues.

What he is still saying is posting now or after the election things like..."Trump is dumb" "can't believe you XXXXX supported him", "you weakened us" are bad...but also so are the posts of "liberal salty tears" "this is glorius" "lol at the reactions on CNN" and so on.   That neither are helpful to positive discourse.  Its just more of the same back and forth blaming.  I think its important to understand how Trump supporters are treated as well as how they have treated others.  It has never been a one way street of poor treatment.

Good point.  We all look forward to you  debating content and stop attacking posters over the sources they use moving forward in the interest of positive discourse.  :thumbup:

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To be honest, I personally read the "new president-elect" part as an expression of support for Biden.  I get now that that isn't how you meant it, but it really does come across that way in the absence of any additional clarification.  (Also, there's no good reason why that should bother anybody.  Joe provides a nice service here at FBG, but I just don't fundamentally care who he's voting for.  The same goes for the guy who owns the grocery store that I shop at, the guy who owns the gas station I patronized this morning, the good folks who sell me my internet service, etc.)

Unfortunately, when you brush up against issues like the upcoming election -- which tend to "trigger" people in an unironic way -- you really have to parse your words.  

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5 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

To be honest, I personally read the "new president-elect" part as an expression of support for Biden.  I get now that that isn't how you meant it, but it really does come across that way in the absence of any additional clarification.  (Also, there's no good reason why that should bother anybody.  Joe provides a nice service here at FBG, but I just don't fundamentally care who he's voting for.  The same goes for the guy who owns the grocery store that I shop at, the guy who owns the gas station I patronized this morning, the good folks who sell me my internet service, etc.)

Unfortunately, when you brush up against issues like the upcoming election -- which tend to "trigger" people in an unironic way -- you really have to parse your words.  

Thanks. I can also see how it would be read that way and I edited.

My point was exactly that though - we all need to be careful in how we say things. Especially me. ;) 

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I do think that the idea " go vote' is taken by Trump supporters (and maybe by Republicans) as a hidden Democratic message because of the concept that higher turnout usually supports the Democratic Party.  That suspicion isn't helped by (at least in SE PA) the idea that every commercial that tells people to "go vote/just do it" is sponsored by the DNC or their surrogates.

I find that kind of funny because I would think Americans would want ALL eligible Americans to vote.  On a personal level.....Trump winning in a landslide would be second on the list of things that would make me happy (the first obviously being Biden winning) simply because if there's a high turnout and he wins; the will of the American people has been delivered and it's up to me to look inward to see if I'm being to unreasonable/unrealistic/naive in my opinions.  

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1 hour ago, Joe Bryant said:

It's interesting. 

I had beers on Wednesday after the 2016 election with two of my Trump voting friends. 

They bought for me and it was friendly and good. 

I think I may just have really good friends. But I wish more people could have what I have. 

I have 6 guys that get together most Thursday nights to have a couple beers and 3 or 4 more that come every once in a while.  We sometimes talk politics and normally keep it pretty light most of the time.

After the 2016 election there were two of us that had voted for Clinton and 6 that had voted for Trump.  There was no gloating by the Trump voters and both myself and the other guy that went for Clinton expressed the hope that Trump would be a good president.  It was actually a pretty cool night.

Things are a lot different now and only 4 of us regularly get together for Thursday night beers anymore.   I expect our gathering next week will be just as civil: good friends are more important than our political views.

Edited by Godsbrother
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2 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Not sure how...Biden wasn't even an option in 2016 (when the comment was from), but this isn't the first time this forum or people on the internet didn't read things correctly or read into comments things that weren't there...it's a significant part of our problem around here :shrug: 


One can interpret Joe doubled down by saying this:

“That feels even more true in 2020”

Also, condescending posts are always helpful with discourse and part of the problem.  

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2 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:


One can interpret Joe doubled down by saying this:

“That feels even more true in 2020”

Also, condescending posts are always helpful with discourse and part of the problem.  

sure..you can interpret however you like :shrug: 

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59 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

It's interesting. 

I had beers on Wednesday after the 2016 election with two of my Trump voting friends. 

They bought for me and it was friendly and good. 

I think I may just have really good friends. But I wish more people could have what I have. 

A large % of people have friends similar to yours. It doesn't seem that way because people like us don't generate profit for those in this business. Decibel levels and volume print money - reasonableness doesn't. 

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15 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

I have 6 guys that get together most Thursday nights to have a couple beers and 3 or 4 more that come every once in a while.  We sometimes talk politics and normally keep it pretty light most of the time.

After the 2016 election there were two of us that had voted for Clinton and 6 that had voted for Trump.  There was no gloating by the Trump voters and both myself and the other guy that went for Clinton expressed the hope that Trump would be a good president.  It was actually a pretty cool night.

Things are a lot different now and only 4 of us regularly get together for Thursday night beers anymore.   I expect our gathering next week will be just as civil: good friends are more important than our political views.

Good post. I also think the on-line nature of politics leads to an appearance that we are more "on edge" than we really are. 

I see coworkers on facebook have heated political arguments and then are completely civil when they see each other in person. 

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18 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Nevermind...not worth it....people need to learn to read what's written.

 

11 minutes ago, The Commish said:

sure..you can interpret however you like :shrug: 

Perhaps you need to realize people interpret things differently from you. 

This wouldn't apply to the guy that emailed Joe and unsubscribed but those that read this forum might get turned off by their perception of Joe pushing his support on Biden onto his readers because FBG has essentially silenced Dodds from this forum while those employees that do participate and moderate are pretty heavy towards the left. 

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1 minute ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

 

Perhaps you need to realize people interpret things differently from you. 

This wouldn't apply to the guy that emailed Joe and unsubscribed but those that read this forum might get turned off by their perception of Joe pushing his support on Biden onto his readers because FBG has essentially silenced Dodds from this forum while those employees that do participate and moderate are pretty heavy towards the left. 

Of course they do....for example, in my view, there was nothing left to "interpret" there.  It's clear his words were from 2016.  That's the problem I generally have and this specific sort of incident I raised in the other thread as part of the problem we have as a community here.  I'm all for interpretation where there is vague comments made, people ask for clarification and none is provided.  Interpretation is all that's left.  What I'm not in favor of is people intentionally reading things into words that were clear because they had some other interaction on some other topic.  That's a problem IMO and that has nothing to do with difference in interpretation.  That's just bad faith interaction I was talking with jm192 about in the other thread.

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1 hour ago, whoknew said:

I suspect its because the 2016 email said "new" President-elect. Which, of course, in 2016, there was no incumbent.

And now that person is thinking you mean "New President    -     elect." 

Not "new        President-Elect" (which, I'm sure, is what you meant). 

If that makes sense (hard to explain in writing).

Yeah that's the only way I read it to possibly suggest Joe was championing Biden. 

Still a pretty tame email though. 

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20 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

A large % of people have friends similar to yours. It doesn't seem that way because people like us don't generate profit for those in this business. Decibel levels and volume print money - reasonableness doesn't. 

That's a great point. 

I think one huge thing we all can do is ask ourselves on just about everything we see from whatever side: "Is that a good representation of how things are or is that mostly an extreme view presented by the website that will grab my attention?"

I hate how the new way to write articles is something like:

 

"Candidate ________________ slammed over recent comments".

And then the "author" goes on Twitter and finds 5 tweets with outrageous takes and posts them. They might have 38 followers but their twitter post looks the same as the person with 30,000 followers or 300,000 followers. What is actually a fringe opinion gets the same presentation as a thoughtful mainstream opinion. 

And it's not representative at all. But it gets people fired up and they click on more.

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28 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Agreed. In 2020, I’m baffled as to why anyone who runs a business would say anything about anything other than their business. It’s not worth it. 

I don't disagree. I thought I was being neutral with the get out to vote and even with that, I messed it up and had to edit. 

It's dicey for sure. Which was the point of the original post - I know it's obvious, but just one more reminder to try and give folks a little extra grace as lots of people on all different sides are on edge. 

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2 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

That's a great point. 

I think one huge thing we all can do is ask ourselves on just about everything we see from whatever side: "Is that a good representation of how things are or is that mostly an extreme view presented by the website that will grab my attention?"

I hate how the new way to write articles is something like:

 

"Candidate ________________ slammed over recent comments".

And then the "author" goes on Twitter and finds 5 tweets with outrageous takes and posts them. They might have 38 followers but their twitter post looks the same as the person with 30,000 followers or 300,000 followers. What is actually a fringe opinion gets the same presentation as a thoughtful mainstream opinion. 

And it's not representative at all. But it gets people fired up and they click on more.

Another way I've been thinking about this recently...

There are approximately 7.8 billion people in the world. Some of them are going to have outlier opinions. There's no reason to freak out about that. It's not newsworthy, at all.

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15 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

That's a great point. 

I think one huge thing we all can do is ask ourselves on just about everything we see from whatever side: "Is that a good representation of how things are or is that mostly an extreme view presented by the website that will grab my attention?"

I hate how the new way to write articles is something like:

 

"Candidate ________________ slammed over recent comments".

And then the "author" goes on Twitter and finds 5 tweets with outrageous takes and posts them. They might have 38 followers but their twitter post looks the same as the person with 30,000 followers or 300,000 followers. What is actually a fringe opinion gets the same presentation as a thoughtful mainstream opinion. 

And it's not representative at all. But it gets people fired up and they click on more.

I liked this, but am not sure if "dislike" would be a better emoji. The point is I agree with what you are saying. Too much "journalism" is click-bait stuff designed to catch eyes and get people riled up. Totally agree with your point on asking whether something is a good representation or an extreme view. Instead of projecting an extreme view on an entire group of people, we'd all be better off if we were a little more charitable in our views and discussions with one another. 

Sidenote, this reminds me why I dislike emojis sometimes. They are not that great in expressing what we want to say in situations where it'd be a lot better/clearer if we just used a few more words. 

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Joe to answer your question, yes I think people are more on edge than normal. But I don’t think that’s simply a byproduct of the coming election. I think the overarching reason is it’s been an extremely tough seven months, and it’s taking a toll. COVID fatigue is real,  certainly more so depending on where one lives in the country or what industry one works in.  Add the extremely polarizing political environment and divisiveness that comes with that into the mix and we end up here. 

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2 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

I wrote this in Week 8 of 2016.

"Serious note. Go Vote. It's the right thing to do. As I said last week, most every election is about more than the Presidential Race which gets so much attention. There are local offices and laws and referendums and all that. It's a privilege. Take advantage of it.

"And last thing. And this one is serious. By this time next week, the election will be over. If your candidate wins, please show some grace in victory. This has been a painful election season. And real damage has been done I feel. But it's damage that can be healed. IF, and that's a real "if", the side who wins initiates that healing. And it has to come from the winner. That's just how things work. God willing, we're going to have a new President-elect next week. If it's the person you've wanted to win, consider how the "other" side might be feeling. And don't rub it in. It's the only way I think we can move forward."

Hi Joe,

As a passionate Trump supporter in 2016, I would have taken the bolded phrases as being subtle shots at my "side."

After all, which side was more frequently labeled as having no grace? Trump guys. Which side was more frequently accused of being inconsiderate of how the other side might be feeling? Trump guys. Which side was more frequently accused of rubbing it in? Trump guys.

I'm not saying you did it on purpose. I'm just telling you how I would have taken it back then.

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