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Why Didn't the Republican Party Save Itself? (1 Viewer)

wikkidpissah

Footballguy
This is really a question for next week, if i am indeed right that the presidential election will be a blowout & the Democratic Party will have both houses of Congress, but i'll risk being flamingly wrong in order not to be accused of 20/20 hindsight. 

If you'll trace my limited TPF posting, i have been pretty sure America will not vote for anyone who's set their hair on fire for quite a while and i was wondering aloud back in June/July if the Lincoln Project ads were laying the groundwork for that concern to run its own candidate 3rd-party to save some conservative dignity if all was indeed lost. It can't have been too hard to at least envision the cost to the Republican Party of this crazy season, no matter the result.

i'm still wondering why it didn't. It would have ensured their aim to defeat President Trump more efficiently than their ad buys and would have established the difference, laid the groundwork for post-Trump reconstruction and provided safe haven for congressional refugees from a burning ship. They're probably going to have create a new party anyway for when a defeated President buys OAN and becomes Noisemaker-in-Chief for his quarter of the nation under the GOP banner. i guess no one will leave a leading entity for its lesser anymore, no matter what the cost.

 
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Certainly, a well run and forward thinking party would have primaried Trump this year. And a well run and forward thinking party would have run away from Trump these 3 1/2 years. But they have been his ball washers even up until the election two days from now. After Trump loses, will the party go the direction of Romney/Kasich or run into the arms of Don Jr or one of the other horrible children? I give them absolutely no credit in doing the right or smart thing and agree with you the party will fracture into two.

 
The Lincoln Project is only a year old and didn't hit their fundraising stride until early summer, so I suspect limited time and money contributed.

Their goal is to prevent the reelection of Donald Trump and other Republicans, so a 3rd party conservative could have split the Republican vote.

 
The Republican party didn't try to save itself because it didn't need to. They embraced the crazy and were rewarded with 3 Supreme Court justices.

I think it's unlikely that the party will crumble, because they can easily just flip back to their former personas if Biden wins. There will be exactly zero fallout for it. We're about 3 days away from conservative media pushing a coordinated message about the evils of deficits, taxation, and socialism, and everyone will pretend that liars and lobbyists are suddenly bad things again.

 
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The Republican party didn't try to save itself because it didn't need to. They embraced the crazy and were rewarded with 3 Supreme Court justices.

I think it's unlikely that the party will crumble, because they can easily just flip back to their former personas if Biden wins. There will be exactly zero fallout for it. We're about 3 days away from conservative media pushing a coordinated message about the evils of deficits, taxation, and socialism, and everyone will pretend that liars and lobbyists are suddenly bad things again.
gotta give ya that the mobilized right has cared about nothing like they do the courts

 
This is a question that deserves more attention than I can give it now, but I'll take a very quick surface and preliminary shot. I'd say that the Republican Party has a lot less influence than people think it does. Much like the DNC could barely prevent a guy that wanted to run 60 percent of the GDP through FEDGOV to be its nominee, nor could the bedraggled and chagrined leaders of the Republican Party stop the people from demanding somebody like Trump. Somebody like Trump has been in the offing since Buchanan's win in the New Hampshire primary in '92 running on a Trumpian message. Perot took that message, ran with it, and split the conservative vote in the early '90s. Lest we find the Reform Party an anomaly, out of its ashes ran a former member (!) for President, and he won the exact states that manufacturing and working class jobs had left behind due to free trade agreements and union busting in the NLRB in the courts from Reagan appointees.

The Republican Party today is the toxic populist fruit of its free market impulses that bred successes and excesses under the radar - Goldwater, Reagan, etc. - and it was the inevitable result of the rejection of both the free market ideas of the party as far back as forty years and the populist rejection of the toxic academic Marxism the left was shoveling into personal lives in the late sixties, which manifested itself mainly the remnants of the mid-seventies coming back in vogue. The rejection of both of those competing ideologies gave us Trump. Plus Atwater in '72 aligning the religious folk up with the Rs, and you've got the party today. 

The Republican Party couldn't run another candidate because its registered voters and independent-leaning voters rejected those nostalgic free market candidates in droves. At its heart, the Party is still representative of democracy. As the people go, so does the Party.

TL;DR As the people go, so does the Party. And the people went. 

 
This is a question that deserves more attention than I can give it now, but I'll take a very quick surface and preliminary shot. I'd say that the Republican Party has a lot less influence than people think it does. Much like the DNC could barely prevent a guy that wanted to run 60 percent of the GDP through FEDGOV to be its nominee, nor could the bedraggled and chagrined leaders of the Republican Party stop the people from demanding somebody like Trump. Somebody like Trump has been in the offing since Buchanan's win in the New Hampshire primary in '92 running on a Trumpian message. Perot took that message, ran with it, and split the conservative vote in the early '90s. Lest we find the Reform Party an anomaly, out of its ashes ran a former member (!) for President, and he won the exact states that manufacturing and working class jobs had left behind due to free trade agreements and union busting in the NLRB in the courts from Reagan appointees.

The Republican Party today is the toxic populist fruit of its free market impulses that bred successes and excesses under the radar - Goldwater, Reagan, etc. - and it was the inevitable result of the rejection of both the free market ideas of the party as far back as forty years and the populist rejection of the toxic academic Marxism the left was shoveling into personal lives in the late sixties, which manifested itself mainly the remnants of the mid-seventies coming back in vogue. The rejection of both of those competing ideologies gave us Trump. Plus Atwater in '72 aligning the religious folk up with the Rs, and you've got the party today. 

The Republican Party couldn't run another candidate because its registered voters and independent-leaning voters rejected those nostalgic free market candidates in droves. At its heart, the Party is still representative of democracy. As the people go, so does the Party.

TL;DR As the people go, so does the Party. And the people went. 
yeah, i announced Palin to succeed Obama in four or eight yrs and was at least thematically right. with you there.

but academic Marxism was actually behind active Marxism until Nam was overover and your Christian conservatism timeline is probably equally hasty, but  :thumbup:

 
I think the Republican party will be fine.  If they win or lose.  Pendulum always swings.
You're probably right, but it will be interesting to see what happens in 2024, assuming Biden wins. Wouldn’t be surprised to see a third-party Trumpian populist run (Don Jr., Ivanka, some other internet celebrity) or The Don himself have another go at it.

 
I think the Republican party will be fine.  If they win or lose.  Pendulum always swings.
You're probably right, but it will be interesting to see what happens in 2024, assuming Biden wins. Wouldn’t be surprised to see a third-party Trumpian populist run (Don Jr., Ivanka, some other internet celebrity) or The Don himself have another go at it.
I think COVID and the 2022 midterms will greatly affect the 2024 race. If the recession continues into 2022 then the 2024 election will be a referendum on Biden's handling of the economy.

 
You're probably right, but it will be interesting to see what happens in 2024, assuming Biden wins. Wouldn’t be surprised to see a third-party Trumpian populist run (Don Jr., Ivanka, some other internet celebrity) or The Don himself have another go at it.
If the populist movement is still alive, they will be the Republican nominee. A 3rd party populist will split the GOP vote and guarantee a Democratic win.

 
Running third-party can't easily be done without a party. Republicans do have a party, but it still ranks above third. The sane wing of the party did run a candidate during the primary, but the primary was semi-canceled this time around.

 
This thread seems premature and odd when you look at the democratic party trying to rally around two people their own party rejected in the primaries. 
The Democrats can be a mess simultaneously with the R’s; they aren’t mutually exclusive, unfortunately.

Do you not think the Republicans need saving?

 
This thread seems premature and odd when you look at the democratic party trying to rally around two people their own party rejected in the primaries. 
Agreed. The premise of the OP is ridiculous. The Republican party is not in crisis and will be just fine post-Trump (assuming he loses).

The last time Democrats had both Congress and the Presidency it lasted a whopping two years.

People are dreaming if they think a vote for Biden is some sort of long-term mandate for Harris and the rest of the progressive lefties.

 
Agreed. The premise of the OP is ridiculous. The Republican party is not in crisis and will be just fine post-Trump (assuming he loses).

The last time Democrats had both Congress and the Presidency it lasted a whopping two years.
A big difference, though, is that districts will be redrawn after the blue wave this time around (if there is one). Also, Puerto Rico and Washington DC might become states. Also, the Voting Rights Act might be restored and strengthened. The systematic ways that Republicans have been able to amass political power disproportionate to their popular support could well be significantly diminished, leading to long-term struggles unless the party reforms itself.

 
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Agreed. The premise of the OP is ridiculous. The Republican party is not in crisis and will be just fine post-Trump (assuming he loses).

The last time Democrats had both Congress and the Presidency it lasted a whopping two years.

People are dreaming if they think a vote for Biden is some sort of long-term mandate for Harris and the rest of the progressive lefties.
Trumpism  has pushed a lot of voters out of the party. And simultaneously awoken apathetic voters into realizing their vote means something, and one party in particular does NOT want them to vote. This has bad long term consequences for the Republicans.

 
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Trumpism  has pushed a lot of voters out of the party. And simultaneously awoken apathetic voters into realizing their vote means something, and one party in particular does NOT want them to vote. This has bad long term consequences for the Republicans.
This article is representative of the GOP "crisis" paranoia after the 2008 election...like I said the "bad long term consequences" lasted all of two years. And Biden is no Obama.

The Republican Party faces a long list of problems with no clear national leader and an identity crisis that will play out during a period of good will for the first African-American elected president.

https://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/06/gop.identity.crisis/index.html

 
This article is representative of the GOP "crisis" paranoia after the 2008 election...like I said the "bad long term consequences" lasted all of two years. And Biden is no Obama.

The Republican Party faces a long list of problems with no clear national leader and an identity crisis that will play out during a period of good will for the first African-American elected president.

https://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/06/gop.identity.crisis/index.html
Actually, it's still going on, this crisis. They've lost my conservative/classical liberal vote. They've lost a lot of votes. The blip on the radar was due to two words:

Hillary Clinton

 
A big difference, though, is that districts will be redrawn after the blue wave this time around (if there is one). Also, Puerto Rico and Washington DC might become states. Also, the Voting Rights Act might be restored and strengthened. The systematic ways that Republicans have been able to amass political power disproportionate to their popular support could well be significantly diminished, leading to long-term struggles unless the party reforms itself.
If the D's make PR and DC states or pack the court then by default the R's will be the party opposed to those things.  Right now I'd say the D's are the favorite due to the anti-Trump sentiment and those 20-25% of persuadable swing voters being tired of the rhetoric.  But I think if the D's overreach here by either of those things then they'll end up punting their advantage back to the R's who will then just take the next step in those arenas to then grab more power for themselves.  I don't personally believe Biden truly wants to do either of those things but I'm not sure if he has the vigor to hold off those on his left flank at this stage of his career. 

At the root of all of this is the basic problem we have today.  People on the left have no interest in living like the vision for red America, and those on the right have no interest in living in the vision for blue America.  It breeds contempt and we have less in common than we have ever had before.

 
Actually, it's still going on, this crisis. They've lost my conservative/classical liberal vote. They've lost a lot of votes. The blip on the radar was due to two words:

Hillary Clinton
Well, the GOP temporarily lost my vote this year also due to two words: climate change. Doesn't mean they're in some sort of long-term existential crisis. 

 
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Actually, it's still going on, this crisis. They've lost my conservative/classical liberal vote. They've lost a lot of votes. The blip on the radar was due to two words:

Hillary Clinton
I'd like to add that since the Republicans so willingly overlooked evidence in the impeachment that seems like ancient history, but was in fact less than a year ago, I decided that even as an independent voter, they're not worthy of my vote.

 
If the D's make PR and DC states or pack the court then by default the R's will be the party opposed to those things. 
The Republican Party has officially supported statehood for Puerto Rico in every single Party Platform since 1972. If the party suddenly turns around and opposes Puerto Rican statehood, it will be another sign that Republicans don't really stand for anything except opposing the other party.

 
If the D's make PR and DC states or pack the court then by default the R's will be the party opposed to those things.  Right now I'd say the D's are the favorite due to the anti-Trump sentiment and those 20-25% of persuadable swing voters being tired of the rhetoric.  But I think if the D's overreach here by either of those things then they'll end up punting their advantage back to the R's who will then just take the next step in those arenas to then grab more power for themselves.  I don't personally believe Biden truly wants to do either of those things but I'm not sure if he has the vigor to hold off those on his left flank at this stage of his career. 

At the root of all of this is the basic problem we have today.  People on the left have no interest in living like the vision for red America, and those on the right have no interest in living in the vision for blue America.  It breeds contempt and we have less in common than we have ever had before.
The conservative court eliminates Obama care and reproductive rights and the women of this country will be in no mood to give them power again. 

 
Plus also the demographics continue to deteriorate for conservatives. They’ll have to make concessions somewhere to bring people back in. 

 
Certainly, a well run and forward thinking party would have primaried Trump this year. And a well run and forward thinking party would have run away from Trump these 3 1/2 years. But they have been his ball washers even up until the election two days from now. After Trump loses, will the party go the direction of Romney/Kasich or run into the arms of Don Jr or one of the other horrible children? I give them absolutely no credit in doing the right or smart thing and agree with you the party will fracture into two.
Republicans will blame Romney and Kasich for Trump not winning. No way they will turn to them, they have been calling Kasich a Rino virtually ever day for 4 years. I suspect it will be Sasse or Haley. Maybe Gov. Hogan from Maryland. I just think there aren’t  any rats that can convince enough of the country that everyone else is delivering fake news like for some unknown reason the Pres Trump was able to.

 
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The conservative court eliminates Obama care and reproductive rights and the women of this country will be in no mood to give them power again. 
This will be an interesting aspect to watch.  The two biggest swings in the voting demographic blocks in the last 4 years are white rural non college males for Trump, and white suburban women for Biden.  The Trumpers aren’t going back, regardless of outcome of 2020 or the next set of candidates.   The suburban women could probably be swung back with the right candidate and party message, but I think you might be right about the court nixing that.

 
A stated policy approach from a candidate or party is different from a supposition on how a judge may or may not rule.
Considering that we still have yet to see any of these roll forward when a Democrat is put in office, I'm going to doubt that it's an immediate threat unless signs say otherwise.

 
Considering that we still have yet to see any of these roll forward when a Democrat is put in office, I'm going to doubt that it's an immediate threat unless signs say otherwise.
So you don't believe that Biden/Pelosi/Schumer all want to repeal the Trump tax cuts?  I'm pretty sure they are all on record saying they do.  They may all three be in power to do so.  Whether I agree with them or not, I do believe them.  I don't think we have anything of the sort from justices stating their opinions on Roe.  

 
So you don't believe that Biden/Pelosi/Schumer all want to repeal the Trump tax cuts?  I'm pretty sure they are all on record saying they do.  They may all three be in power to do so.  Whether I agree with them or not, I do believe them.  I don't think we have anything of the sort from justices stating their opinions on Roe.  
Honestly, it doesn't bother me terribly if people making 7+ figures have to pay more, thought if it were up to me, we'd have some type of flat tax built into the price of sale for mostly everything, which would have a greater impact on the higher end of that scale. It's not perfect, but I don't see anybody in DC coming up with any good ideas. Heck, I'm still waiting for them to enact year round Daylight Savings Time, which we voted for in Florida 2 years ago.

 
They cannot save themselves from Trump.  Trumpism (for lack of a better terM) is an ideological plurality within the RNC Tent.   To not court it is to court obsolescence. 

 
Honestly, it doesn't bother me terribly if people making 7+ figures have to pay more, thought if it were up to me, we'd have some type of flat tax built into the price of sale for mostly everything, which would have a greater impact on the higher end of that scale. It's not perfect, but I don't see anybody in DC coming up with any good ideas. Heck, I'm still waiting for them to enact year round Daylight Savings Time, which we voted for in Florida 2 years ago.
I get that, and I'm with you on more of a flat tax option from a policy standpoint.  I don't think that's what we will get either. 

I'd put the odds of tax increases happening with D control of the Presidency, House, and Senate as an almost certainty versus a total unknown of what the courts will or won't do. I say that as someone who isn't in favor of Roe being overturned.  I just don't see it as likely.

 
The worst thing that Trump has done for the Republicans is align the suburbs with the cities.  The suburbs will be the battlegrounds in the future. 

 
I get that, and I'm with you on more of a flat tax option from a policy standpoint.  I don't think that's what we will get either. 

I'd put the odds of tax increases happening with D control of the Presidency, House, and Senate as an almost certainty versus a total unknown of what the courts will or won't do. I say that as someone who isn't in favor of Roe being overturned.  I just don't see it as likely.
I agree, the odds are certainly higher, but wouldn't that affect their own earnings? I could be wrong about that, though.

As for abortion, I don't like it at all, but I feel a more effective solution would be to make abortion unnecessary, instead of just illegal. Adequate education, counseling, not restricting adoptions based on sexual orientation or gender, etc., all would be a great solution, I think.

 
I agree, the odds are certainly higher, but wouldn't that affect their own earnings? I could be wrong about that, though.

As for abortion, I don't like it at all, but I feel a more effective solution would be to make abortion unnecessary, instead of just illegal. Adequate education, counseling, not restricting adoptions based on sexual orientation or gender, etc., all would be a great solution, I think.
My guess would be the rate changes they would enact will be for earned income as opposed to cap gains.  There's not that many folks making over $400K a year in earned income, especially as it gets into seven figures. So while those impacted are certainly high end earners, they aren't those uber high end earners that politicians like to act like they are going to hit.   It's a way to act like they are taking a stand while really kind of protecting their donor base in my opinion.  The average American doesn't understand that when Warren Buffett talks about his effective rate being less than that of his secretary that changing the tax brackets and those incremental rates would have zero effect on that situation.

 
In the interest of fairness, the threats of socialism, taking guns away, and higher taxes for everyone also fall in this category.
I always laugh at the thinking that liberals are for taking away guns. I recently had 6 of my liberal Democrat friends out to the Minnesota pheasant hunting opener. Many with semi auto shotguns. Democrats love to hunt as much as anyone and blue states like Minnesota, Colorado and Michigan just to name a few of the  Democrat states love the billion dollar hunting tourism brings to their states. Sure you may see some attempts to ban assault rifles but beyond that I am not worried about anybody taking away the guns I have. 

 
The Republican party didn't try to save itself because it didn't need to. They embraced the crazy and were rewarded with 3 Supreme Court justices.

I think it's unlikely that the party will crumble, because they can easily just flip back to their former personas if Biden wins. There will be exactly zero fallout for it. We're about 3 days away from conservative media pushing a coordinated message about the evils of deficits, taxation, and socialism, and everyone will pretend that liars and lobbyists are suddenly bad things again.
This sums it up perfectly. 

 
So you don't believe that Biden/Pelosi/Schumer all want to repeal the Trump tax cuts?  I'm pretty sure they are all on record saying they do.  They may all three be in power to do so.  Whether I agree with them or not, I do believe them.  I don't think we have anything of the sort from justices stating their opinions on Roe.  
Pro trillion dollar deficits? 

 
I don't believe that Roe v Wade is likely to be overturned but I guess time will tell.


States have been chipping away at abortion rights for a while now. Or, at least trying to. Sometimes they get shot down by the S.Ct., sometimes they don't.

I reckon there will be a lot more of these laws that pass Constitutional muster with the current makeup of the Court.

 

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