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***Official 2020 Election General*** (1 Viewer)

Yankee23Fan said:
I could make a pretty compelling case - to me at least - that the exact opposite is true in this day and age.  At the core of the Trump brand of republican politics right now is a very real and very measurable feeling and position of those very same 378 that no one cares about them anymore, their jobs are gone, they feel like they are blamed for problems that they were most likely never a part of, and a huge part about what gave them an identity has changed or disappeared with nothing to take its place leading to a vacuum of fear that has been seized upon by Donald Trump and the people that support him.

In this day and age we need to reach out to those 378 people just as much as the 378,000, not less so.  And debating from thousands of miles away that we should ignore them will drive them to the arms of people that gave us this presidency.  No thanks.  

How about instead of fundamentally altering the constitutional framework of the nation for immediate political effect, we actually do the hard work of solving the real problems that we've made, ignored and fueled by ignoring them or putting band-aides on them?  We do prioritize people.  All people.  Isn't that the point?  You won't win any hearts and minds of the very people who you need to win over to truly cure the sickness in this country by telling them they don't matter because they don't live anywhere near a 10 story building.
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Really great post imo 

 
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Reactions: JAA
cap'n grunge said:
tri-man 47 said:
As to the Senate: Still waiting to see if Perdue comes off his 50.0% in Georgia as the last 3% comes in ...which would force two runoffs there instead of just one (and give the Dems a shot at 50 seats).
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Would the Dems really have a shot in either? Serious question. I haven't looked at the races to see who siphoned off other votes.
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Didn't he already drop below 50%? Feel like I saw tweets about that a few hours ago.

 
cap'n grunge said:
John King just mentioned 8800 military ballots were requested in GA. Not sure how many will come back but those could take a while to receive and count. I wonder across the country what effect these ballots could have. I could be wrong but these typically skew Republican right? Wonder if that will change though with how Trump has denigrated our soldiers.
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Without more information, this is hard to tell if it matters or not. Those ballots could have been sent in a long time ago and already counted. Who knows how many military ballots are still out there to count? I know they get something like 7 to 10 extra days after Election Day in order to count . . . but there could be 50 or 5,000. Maybe election officials know, but the general public likely can’t tell the number they could still receive. 

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
Convincing people with an unfair benefit to give up that benefit is a heavier lift than I can manage.
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Yeah, you're right.  Never in human history has someone with more than someone else given of themselves for the better of others when given the opportunity to learn why it's so important to do it. It's literally never happened.  Ever.  

Your history books must be half the size of mine.

 
Yankee23Fan said:
I could make a pretty compelling case - to me at least - that the exact opposite is true in this day and age.  At the core of the Trump brand of republican politics right now is a very real and very measurable feeling and position of those very same 378 that no one cares about them anymore, their jobs are gone, they feel like they are blamed for problems that they were most likely never a part of, and a huge part about what gave them an identity has changed or disappeared with nothing to take its place leading to a vacuum of fear that has been seized upon by Donald Trump and the people that support him.

In this day and age we need to reach out to those 378 people just as much as the 378,000, not less so.  And debating from thousands of miles away that we should ignore them will drive them to the arms of people that gave us this presidency.  No thanks.  

How about instead of fundamentally altering the constitutional framework of the nation for immediate political effect, we actually do the hard work of solving the real problems that we've made, ignored and fueled by ignoring them or putting band-aides on them?  We do prioritize people.  All people.  Isn't that the point?  You won't win any hearts and minds of the very people who you need to win over to truly cure the sickness in this country by telling them they don't matter because they don't live anywhere near a 10 story building.
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I could make an equally compelling argument that proposals like UBI/BIG, public option or even universal health care, and free college are reaching out to those people and helping them with their problems, but Fox News repeatedly calling such things socialism prevents those proposals from helping anyone.

 
cap'n grunge said:
Would the Dems really have a shot in either? Serious question. I haven't looked at the races to see who siphoned off other votes.
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I imagine it's going to be who is better at getting out the vote. Looking back at a couple of other Senate run-offs in GA, the Dems lost both of them. But they did win a Sec of State runoff in 2018.

 
Rich Conway said:
I could make an equally compelling argument that proposals like UBI/BIG, public option or even universal health care, and free college are reaching out to those people and helping them with their problems, but Fox News repeatedly calling such things socialism prevents those proposals from helping anyone.
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You will get no argument from me.  I'm the guy that's been pushing some variant or amalgamation of the FairTax, BIG and universal benefits package that consumes all of the ACA, SSI, SSID, VA, Medicare and MEdicaid into a core component of the federal government.

 
Kilgore Trout said:
Found this spreadsheet on the twitters from someone who is doing the math as results come in and projecting margin of victory and needed vote percentage as updates happen (seems to update frequently). Has both PA and GA in the tabs at the bottom. Projecting a 170K win for Biden at current margins. I see that going down a bit. 
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Awesome.

Notice at 12:45 today, a submission of votes gave Trump 21 votes and TOOK AWAY 174 votes from Biden. Hopefully, seeing that can help reduce the accusations of the 100% Biden batches. Any individual update isn't necessarily representative of anything. This just how data is processed sometimes.

 
Yankee23Fan said:
I could make a pretty compelling case - to me at least - that the exact opposite is true in this day and age.  At the core of the Trump brand of republican politics right now is a very real and very measurable feeling and position of those very same 378 that no one cares about them anymore, their jobs are gone, they feel like they are blamed for problems that they were most likely never a part of, and a huge part about what gave them an identity has changed or disappeared with nothing to take its place leading to a vacuum of fear that has been seized upon by Donald Trump and the people that support him.

In this day and age we need to reach out to those 378 people just as much as the 378,000, not less so.  And debating from thousands of miles away that we should ignore them will drive them to the arms of people that gave us this presidency.  No thanks.  

How about instead of fundamentally altering the constitutional framework of the nation for immediate political effect, we actually do the hard work of solving the real problems that we've made, ignored and fueled by ignoring them or putting band-aides on them?  We do prioritize people.  All people.  Isn't that the point?  You won't win any hearts and minds of the very people who you need to win over to truly cure the sickness in this country by telling them they don't matter because they don't live anywhere near a 10 story building.
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I love you, man, but I disagree with this.

How would we feel if I we picked 378 people that happened to live in one city block of New York, and decided that, because there was something special about that particular geography (maybe "poorest people in the country," or "most homeless people live there" or "people who have been working in textiles for 4 generations" or whatever other random thing separates this particular 378 people). And we decided, "for this random reason, we are going to give THESE people extra special voice!" How do we decide what people get "special" or outsized voice. 

Heck, people could argue that it's REALLY the slaves that helped turn this country into the industrial powerhouse it is today. So anyone who can trace their lineage to slaves get extra votes and extra consideration." More so than descendants of farmers and ranchers in the high dessert. 

We aren't saying that people are being "ignored" because they don't live near a 10 story building. On the contrary, it looks like people are being ignored (i.e., their votes are diluted) because they DO live near a 10 story building. 

 
An hour ago, the GA SOS tweeted there were over 47K mail in ballots left. 538 said JB would need 64% of them to take the lead. I thought I saw that Biden had a 71% vote share in the mail in ballots in GA for all the ones they have counted so far. The more ballots that are out there, the better for Biden. 

 
Blinky the Three Eyed Fish said:
Without more information, this is hard to tell if it matters or not. Those ballots could have been sent in a long time ago and already counted. Who knows how many military ballots are still out there to count? I know they get something like 7 to 10 extra days after Election Day in order to count . . . but there could be 50 or 5,000. Maybe election officials know, but the general public likely can’t tell the number they could still receive. 
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my understanding is that military ballots could be cast electronically, so there probably aren't a whole lot out there remaining to be counted.

 
Sweet J said:
I love you, man, but I disagree with this.

How would we feel if I we picked 378 people that happened to live in one city block of New York, and decided that, because there was something special about that particular geography (maybe "poorest people in the country," or "most homeless people live there" or "people who have been working in textiles for 4 generations" or whatever other random thing separates this particular 378 people). And we decided, "for this random reason, we are going to give THESE people extra special voice!" How do we decide what people get "special" or outsized voice. 

Heck, people could argue that it's REALLY the slaves that helped turn this country into the industrial powerhouse it is today. So anyone who can trace their lineage to slaves get extra votes and extra consideration." More so than descendants of farmers and ranchers in the high dessert. 

We aren't saying that people are being "ignored" because they don't live near a 10 story building. On the contrary, it looks like people are being ignored (i.e., their votes are diluted) because they DO live near a 10 story building. 
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Para.1 - we do this already.  

Para.2 - sentence 1 is true - we owe a ton of what we are as a nation to people that weren't considered people.  Sentence 2...again, we try to do that in some ways with some policies already.

Para.3 - I disagree with your conclusion there and your premise.  And my post came from the idea that we need to take power away from the 378.

But, I agree this isn't the thread.  Sorry.  With the apparent real chance that we might actually get back to some closeness to political normalcy in this country and on this board, I find myself reverting to my younger, looking forward to debating theoretical politics, self.  I will leave this thread to the important work at hand for now.

 
Yankee23Fan said:
Para.1 - we do this already.  

Para.2 - sentence 1 is true - we owe a ton of what we are as a nation to people that weren't considered people.  Sentence 2...again, we try to do that in some ways with some policies already.

Para.3 - I disagree with your conclusion there and your premise.  And my post came from the idea that we need to take power away from the 378.

But, I agree this isn't the thread.  Sorry.  With the apparent real chance that we might actually get back to some closeness to political normalcy in this country and on this board, I find myself reverting to my younger, looking forward to debating theoretical politics, self.  I will leave this thread to the important work at hand for now.
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I hadn't even recognized what that feeling was...optimism.   It's been a long time.   

 
I would love to know who Jorgensen took votes from in Pennsylvania.  Her votes right now are really close to the difference between the two main guys.

 
One of the ways the GOP is using to prove voter fraud is by finding ballots cast by people registered that they were born in 1900, in which case the voter would be 120 years old. Apparently they have found a handful of people that fit the 115+ years old description that submitted ballots. Just one of the things they are going to argue in court. 

 
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Yankee23Fan said:
Para.1 - we do this already.  

Para.2 - sentence 1 is true - we owe a ton of what we are as a nation to people that weren't considered people.  Sentence 2...again, we try to do that in some ways with some policies already.

Para.3 - I disagree with your conclusion there and your premise.  And my post came from the idea that we need to take power away from the 378.

But, I agree this isn't the thread.  Sorry.  With the apparent real chance that we might actually get back to some closeness to political normalcy in this country and on this board, I find myself reverting to my younger, looking forward to debating theoretical politics, self.  I will leave this thread to the important work at hand for now.
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Oh great another honeydo list. 

Oh, wait, sorry. Reflex. 

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
Oh, so you just want the states with huge urban populations to control the country.

Good luck with all that 

:lol:
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You mean let the places where the majority of people actually live have more say? Interesting idea. There are individual counties (!!) in CA with more people than 6-7 other entire states combined. And each person’s vote there is worth 200x less than a person’s single vote in Iowa, proportionally. 
 

I understand your concerns but that makes no sense whatsoever and there has to be a middle ground. 

 
Blinky the Three Eyed Fish said:
One of the ways the GOP is using to prove voter fraud is by finding ballots cast by people registered that they were born, in which case the voter would be 120 years old. Apparently they have found a handful of people that fit the 115+ years old description that submitted ballots. Just one of the things they are going to argue in court. 
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This is almost certainly not true but ok then he will lose PA by 149,997 votes instead of a 150k. 

 
Yankee23Fan said:
But, I agree this isn't the thread.  Sorry.  With the apparent real chance that we might actually get back to some closeness to political normalcy in this country and on this board, I find myself reverting to my younger, looking forward to debating theoretical politics, self.  I will leave this thread to the important work at hand for now.
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I look forward to some normalcy and being able  to discuss this kind of stuff again. The FFA used to have great discussions about all sorts of political ideas from guaranteed income, electoral college, etc. M(PSF)GA!

 
Joe Summer said:
Yeah, Google spreadsheet guy just updated his sheet to reflect that. This isn't good news for Biden— he would now need to get 65% of remaining ballots to win. (He's been averaging 76% today but you never know.)
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They showed the counties and amount of ballots left in each

Should be very close

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
Local news (Pa) just reported 343,000

90some thousand in Philly which is obviously as blue as it gets 
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Yeah, this is now the official number which makes thinks tighter. The spreadsheet I posted earlier is now reflecting this, and has an 81K margin if margins hold. Makes the race a bit tighter if margins start to drop. (I thought I heard earlier today that the PA Sec of State said there were over 500,000 votes to count, so I wonder if that included provisional ballots).

 
Yankee23Fan said:
But, I agree this isn't the thread.  Sorry.  With the apparent real chance that we might actually get back to some closeness to political normalcy in this country and on this board, I find myself reverting to my younger, looking forward to debating theoretical politics, self.  I will leave this thread to the important work at hand for now.
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This funny thing is that my initial reaction was to write "that's insane" or something equally stupid, and changed to "I disagree." Getting back to normal discourse, one post at a time. 

 
I must admit that I am getting tired of the conspiracy theorists on Twitter that don’t understand that red voters went to the polls and red voters voted by mail. So when blue counties were only 60% blue after in person voting, it was inevitable that HUGE batches of blue ballots were coming. These batches of 90-95% Biden ballots in major cities is just market correction, not fraud. So those districts will shoot up from 60% blue to 78-85% blue line they have typically been. But they just magically appeared!

 
This reporter dunking on a lawyer making a false claim of an election worker "stealing ballots"  is pretty funny.  Sadly, this video and its blatantly false claims has been amplified and circulated.

 
Blinky the Three Eyed Fish said:
One of the ways the GOP is using to prove voter fraud is by finding ballots cast by people registered that they were born, in which case the voter would be 120 years old. Apparently they have found a handful of people that fit the 115+ years old description that submitted ballots. Just one of the things they are going to argue in court. 
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In your first sentence, is there a word missing or obvious typo that I'm not seeing? Trying to understand what the bolded means and something isn't clicking. 

 
Kilgore Trout said:
Yeah, this is now the official number which makes thinks tighter. The spreadsheet I posted earlier is now reflecting this, and has an 81K margin if margins hold. Makes the race a bit tighter if margins start to drop. (I thought I heard earlier today that the PA Sec of State said there were over 500,000 votes to count, so I wonder if that included provisional ballots).
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I went back and found the tweet. The reporter who stated it has corrected it to the lower number. 

 
Blinky the Three Eyed Fish said:
Yeah, sorry. Should say BORN IN 1900.
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Fraudulent votes were cast in Michigan using the identities of dead people.

FALSE

A Twitter user called Essential Fleccas claims that three people who are already dead voted for Joe Biden in Michigan. According to the video published by the handle, June Aiken (120 years old), Donna Brydges (119 years old) and William Bradley (118 years old) voted for Biden via absentee ballots. All three voters highlighted in these claims are alive and most likely relatives of people born in the early 1900s who inherited their relatives' names.

 
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