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Attorney General Of PA: "If all the votes are added up in PA, Trump is going to lose."


Joe Bryant

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The truth of the statement seems irrelevant to me. I think the issue is more about who said it. I don't know enough about the job description of state AGs to know if this is out of bounds or not, but it sure feels like something that shouldn't be said. The AG should just say something like "Pennsylvania is committed to accurately counting every vote and I am confident you can trust our results."

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1 hour ago, Joe Bryant said:

https://twitter.com/JoshShapiroPA/status/1322640510637477889?s=20

Friends are sending me this. Supposedly from the Attorney General of Pennsylvania.

How can he say this?

:goodposting:

I posted this in the Trump thread yesterday, this is absolutely crazy. If this guy were a Republican the media would be calling for him to step down and be charged with election tampering.

The Republicans better have every lawyer they got there because this guy just gave away the plan to make Trump lose one way or another. 

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It was an error to say this.  I can understand how he feels that this is an adversarial relationship with Trump because of all the lawsuits he has to defend against, but he should still try and be the bigger man.  It's minor compared to some of the other miscues, but he should just keep quiet.

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4 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

:goodposting:

I posted this in the Trump thread yesterday, this is absolutely crazy. If this guy were a Republican the media would be calling for him to step down and be charged with election tampering.

The Republicans better have every lawyer they got there because this guy just gave away the plan to make Trump lose one way or another

If by "to make Trump lose one way or another" you meant "to count all the votes" then you'd be correct. 

Edited by mrip541
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2 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

:goodposting:

I posted this in the Trump thread yesterday, this is absolutely crazy. If this guy were a Republican the media would be calling for him to step down and be charged with election tampering.

The Republicans better have every lawyer they got there because this guy just gave away the plan to make Trump lose one way or another. 

The plan for Trump to lose is counting every vote?

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29 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

Unless there’s evidence of any actual wrongdoing I think he can have his opinion. 

This isn't Josh at the barbershop with an opinion.

He's the Attorney General for the State of Pennsylvania. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SD-Flzk3lHgV0WPW_FK4IiX1JWaG_KN8EIU99CfcTD0/edit#gid=1226035887

Quote

Attorneys general are the top legal officers of their state or territory. They advise and represent their legislature and state agencies and act as the “People’s Lawyer” for the citizens. Most are elected, though a few are appointed by the governor. Select your state to connect to your state attorney general's website.

 

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2 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:
34 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

Unless there’s evidence of any actual wrongdoing I think he can have his opinion. 

This isn't Josh at the barbershop with an opinion.

He's the Attorney General for the State of Pennsylvania. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SD-Flzk3lHgV0WPW_FK4IiX1JWaG_KN8EIU99CfcTD0/edit#gid=1226035887

Quote

Attorneys general are the top legal officers of their state or territory. They advise and represent their legislature and state agencies and act as the “People’s Lawyer” for the citizens. Most are elected, though a few are appointed by the governor. Select your state to connect to your state attorney general's website.

 

So it is his job to reassure the voters of Pennsylvania that despite Trump's constant attacks that their vote will count.   

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59 minutes ago, Rich Conway said:

You can't possibly believe these statements are over the line but Trump's own statements over the last 6+ months regarding rigged elections are fine, can you?

Edit: it is a stupid thing to say.  I'm all for him being required to step down as long as we're consistent about it, which means that Trump and others have to step down as well.

Every single thread is but Trump. The OP nor Guru said anything about Trump. 

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1 hour ago, CentralPA said:
1 hour ago, Joe Bryant said:

Or maybe more to the point, is this kind of endorsement ok for Attorney Generals to say

Not at all, very misleading.

I don't think it's a problematic thing for Shapiro to tweet IF Pennsylvania's Attorney General has no possible or potential role in determining the outcome of the election. That would depend on specific Pennsylvania law, though.

In Louisiana, it would be fine for Attorney General Jeff Landry to endorse a presidential candidate. It would not be fine for Louisiana Secretary of State Kyle Ardoin or Commissioner of Elections Sherri Wharton Hadskey to endorse a candidate. Same goes for, say, a Louisiana Supreme Court justice, who could be called to rule on a contentious election matter.

 

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Wait, AGs represent the people and not the party? And throwaway comments are important but real and consequential actions of an AG are acceptable? I'm sorry, I honestly think there is something wrong with what PA AG said, but the contradictions in play here are just too rich. 

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2 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

This isn't Josh at the barbershop with an opinion.

He's the Attorney General for the State of Pennsylvania. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SD-Flzk3lHgV0WPW_FK4IiX1JWaG_KN8EIU99CfcTD0/edit#gid=1226035887

 

Yes, and he lives in America and is entitled to an opinion. I can agree that it was a reckless comment, but yesterday the president stated that his lawyers would be filing suits at 8pm Tuesday to stop counting. The AG is talking about counting all the votes, and predicts Trump will lose if that happens. Team trump has stated they will be filing suit to not count those votes, so i guess maybe I’m jumping to the conclusion that they would only be doing this if they thought they would have a better chance at winning. 

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1 hour ago, CentralPA said:
1 hour ago, Zow said:

Not every vote needs to be counted for there to be a reasonable mathematical certainty of an outcome. 

You're right, but the way this election feels its almost like it should be just so everyone can be satisfied and not think someone's cheating.

Some people will think cheating took place regardless of what's done. This was true in past presidential elections, as well.

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46 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

But more to the point, this kind of thing is what I worry about in the next few days.

Say Trump loses Pennsylvania and loses the election because of Pennsylvania.

The Pennsylvania Attorney General tweeting three days before the election "If all the votes are added up in PA, Trump is going to lose" would be awful. 

Its not quite Katherine Harris level of awful, but extremely improper and a strong indication he should not have that job.  The fact is, our civil servants at local, state and federal level have become largely politicized over the past 30 years or so, and we all suffer from the consequences.

 

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27 minutes ago, mrip541 said:

Considering the constant torrent of lies Trump is spewing about election fraud and conspiracies coupled with his plan to throw out as many valid ballots as possible I have no problem with this statement.

I know man.

Trump is so evil, that Dems shouldn't be held to any standards.  Is that an accurate assessment?  Because that's how these posts read to me.  Trump bad.  We do less bad.  OK if we do less bad.

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It's a bad look.  He's undermining the results in case Trump wins.  If Biden wins--the process is good and you can trust it.  If Trump wins--well something bad happened.  

No.  Your job is AG is to ensure that the process is fair and that a winner is found.

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1 hour ago, Zow said:

Hmmm just read the twitter post. I think some of my assumptions were wrong. Definitely has a team vibe to it. Is AG a partisan position in PA?

Yes ... he is listed as a Democrat on his Wikipedia entry. The Attorney General office is also partisan in Louisiana, which comes up frequently because the governor and AG are opposite parties.

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Many Attorney Generals say way more political stuff than the public expects.  There's a reason almost all are associated with a political party though, whether they are elected or appointed to the office.

If you've driven anywhere west of Philly in PA, you pretty much know that Trump signs are everywhere.  If you get to western PA outside of Pittsburgh you'll see more confederate flags than anywhere else in the country.  And I can only assume they aren't voting Democrat.

So the AG's thought that PA is somehow predestined to vote for Biden if all votes are counted is dumb.  Although I do think the state will go to Biden.  Philly and Pitt areas can easily outvote the rest of the state.

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5 minutes ago, jm192 said:

I know man.

Trump is so evil, that Dems shouldn't be held to any standards.  Is that an accurate assessment?  Because that's how these posts read to me.  Trump bad.  We do less bad.  OK if we do less bad.

Nothing Trump or the GOP does or says matters for 4 years but a Dem defending his state against the president's lies is an outrage? Please.

Edited by mrip541
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I applaud those of you who are honest enough to acknowledge that this is a bad look.  

This place is unbearable at times, and I stop coming for months at a time because no matter what anyone does--"Well Trump did this first, so this really is ok."  You hate Trump because he doesn't meet your standards, but gladly let the Dem officials walk under the same bar--because, well, Trump did it.  

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21 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

This isn't Josh at the barbershop with an opinion.

He's the Attorney General for the State of Pennsylvania. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SD-Flzk3lHgV0WPW_FK4IiX1JWaG_KN8EIU99CfcTD0/edit#gid=1226035887

 

While I acknowledge this is a #whataboutism, Bill Barr, on behalf of the United States, recently filed a motion to join the country as a defendant in a personal lawsuit against Trump. For the non-lawyers, this means that Trump and his personal money were being sued but Barr then voluntarily tried to come in and insert the USA (us, the taxpayers as a defendant). This has the practical effect of offering a much deeper pocket to the Plaintiff and protecting Trump. At best, Barr did this to delay the case to advantage Trump. At worst, he was basically maneuvering to have the USA pay for any monetary liabilities Trump could have been personally facing. If unclear, Barr opted to do this - which, to me, is malpractice because he opted to expose his client to liability when none was even sought by the Plaintiff. 

 

Do you see this as better or worse than what the PA AG did and why?

Edited by Zow
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1 minute ago, mrip541 said:

Nothing Trump or the GOP does or says matters for 4 years but a Dem defending his state against the president's lies is an outrage? Please.

He's actively undermining confidence in the results.  

HIS job is to make sure there's a fair election process.  He's saying any world in which Trump wins, the process was cheated.  If the process is cheated, he didn't do his job. 

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1 minute ago, mrip541 said:

Nothing Trump or the GOP does or says matters for 4 years but a Dem defending his state against the president's lies is an outrage? Please.

When are people allowed to be outraged at something a Dem does or says?  Please ####### tell me when I can have permission.

Everything bad thing a Dem does is pardoned by Trump's previous bad behavior.  So you don't really care about bad behavior.  You just don't want Trump to do it.

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Just now, jm192 said:

I know man.

Trump is so evil, that Dems shouldn't be held to any standards.  Is that an accurate assessment?  Because that's how these posts read to me.  Trump bad.  We do less bad.  OK if we do less bad.

Trump is threatening to bring in lawyers to stop votes from being counted, the PA AG is saying that's because he knows if they are counted he will lose.  There is nothing similar in intent about those two statements.  

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8 minutes ago, jm192 said:

When are people allowed to be outraged at something a Dem does or says?  Please ####### tell me when I can have permission.

Everything bad thing a Dem does is pardoned by Trump's previous bad behavior.  So you don't really care about bad behavior.  You just don't want Trump to do it.

I think that if people want things to suddenly matter again now that Trump is headed out the door they've got another thing coming. 

Edited by mrip541
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1 minute ago, jm192 said:

When are people allowed to be outraged at something a Dem does or says?  Please ####### tell me when I can have permission.

Everything bad thing a Dem does is pardoned by Trump's previous bad behavior.  So you don't really care about bad behavior.  You just don't want Trump to do it.

My suggestion is to de-escalate this conversation. I’d like you to be around all day, especially tonight. 

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3 minutes ago, jm192 said:

He's actively undermining confidence in the results.  

HIS job is to make sure there's a fair election process.  He's saying any world in which Trump wins, the process was cheated.  If the process is cheated, he didn't do his job. 

He actively promoting confidence in the results.  Not even Trump disagrees with the premise that if every vote is counted than Trump loses.  Those seeding doubts are on the other side, those being written about in the article.

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7 minutes ago, jm192 said:

I applaud those of you who are honest enough to acknowledge that this is a bad look.  

This place is unbearable at times, and I stop coming for months at a time because no matter what anyone does--"Well Trump did this first, so this really is ok."  You hate Trump because he doesn't meet your standards, but gladly let the Dem officials walk under the same bar--because, well, Trump did it.  

:goodposting:

I’m with you. Lots and lots of people unable to discuss anything but Trump. 

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6 minutes ago, jm192 said:

When are people allowed to be outraged at something a Dem does or says?  Please ####### tell me when I can have permission.

Everything bad thing a Dem does is pardoned by Trump's previous bad behavior.  So you don't really care about bad behavior.  You just don't want Trump to do it.

This democrat did nothing other than respond to the integrity of the election he is protecting.   There is no bad behavior to defend.  Maybe a bit of misjudgment on the exact wording, but no inappropriate behavior.

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I think this is a "two wrongs don't make a right" situation.

I'd imagine AG Shapiro wouldn't have said anything if the President himself has been formulating both an idea that he can't lose as long as there's no cheating and that he would like to see not all the votes counted in PA.  

Shapiro should have taken the partisan slant out of his comment.....even to the point of saying something like " For the past few weeks Republicans have been trying to delegitimize votes in PA while the President Trump himself has been claiming that he can't lose if there's not cheating in the booths......but we all know that if all the in PA are counted fairly...the will of the people will prevail" ......... but I'm not going to burn a man at the stake for an 11th hour partisan retort to a hot topic issue in which the leader of the Party opposed to him has been lobbing at grenades at for the past few weeks.

Hand slappable offense....dont' do it again.....you're above this .....move on.  

I'm sure it is a  "pearl clutching" soundbite on ALL the Conservative media outlets today though.  

Edited by Thunderlips
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3 minutes ago, 36Kevon said:

:goodposting:

I’m with you. Lots and lots of people unable to discuss anything but Trump. 

In fairness, Trump really is so bombastic, divisive, and brazen that he really does make it hard to discuss anything but him. 

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1 minute ago, JAA said:

I think he could have made his point differently.  Not a good look IMO.

Yeah I think this is the most fair summary of the situation. 

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48 minutes ago, dgreen said:

The truth of the statement seems irrelevant to me. I think the issue is more about who said it. I don't know enough about the job description of state AGs to know if this is out of bounds or not, but it sure feels like something that shouldn't be said. The AG should just say something like "Pennsylvania is committed to accurately counting every vote and I am confident you can trust our results."

I agree. 

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4 minutes ago, Boston said:
6 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Not necessarily. What is the AG's role in Pennsylvania's elections?

From his statement part of his role appears to be to know exactly what the results will be prior to the actual votes being counted.

No, I mean by statute. Pennsylvania Statute 732, Sections 204-207 are brief reads. Shapiro has no role and will have no role in determining the outcome of the presidential election in Pennsylvania.

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56 minutes ago, dgreen said:

The truth of the statement seems irrelevant to me. I think the issue is more about who said it. I don't know enough about the job description of state AGs to know if this is out of bounds or not, but it sure feels like something that shouldn't be said. The AG should just say something like "Pennsylvania is committed to accurately counting every vote and I am confident you can trust our results."

Yes, he should have phrased it differently from the start, but this is pretty much what he said when he made more complete statements.

Quote

"This election will not end until all of the legal, eligible votes are counted," Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro, a Democrat, said on MSNBC Monday night.

"That will take a few days, and Donald Trump can tweet, and he can pout, and he can make whatever statements he wants to make," Shapiro continued. "But this election will not be over here in Pennsylvania, a winner will not be declared, until we can deduce the will of the people. And that will happen after all of those ballots are counted."

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/11/03/trump-spouts-last-minute-lies-top-pennsylvania-officials-make-clear-election-will

Edited by parrot
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54 minutes ago, 2Squirrels1Nut said:

This. Trump and the republicans just tried to sue and overturn state law that allows mail in ballots post marked before election day but not yet received to be counted. The polls show those ballots overwhelming support Biden. 

Still, dumb thing to say. 

Personally I'm more concerned that the POTUS has been saying for months that if he loses it's because the election is rigged. In other words he CAN’T lose. That's scary dangerous. 

Only way to shut him up is a landslide.  Currently underway.  I listened to the AG say this.  He wasn't endorsing anyone.  He pointed out that Trump's lawyers keep trying to suppress the vote and hasn't been successful to a large extent.  His supposition was that he's only doing this because he knows he'll lose if they're ALL counted.  Then he pointed out that by that logic, Trump will lose if they're all counted.  

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1 minute ago, Doug B said:

No, I mean by statute. Pennsylvania Statute 732, Sections 204-207 are brief reads. Shapiro has no role and will have no role in determining the outcome of the presidential election in Pennsylvania.

That is great to know...so he is involved in voter cases now but won't be with the actual election?  There is no chance he will have any involvement at all?

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