Agree that any republican support is a win and looks better. It appears that the senate will put bill on pause until after impeachment hearings which is colossal waste of time. Thought passage of bill was urgent?
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***Official President Joe Biden Thread*** BEST EVER! (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter SHIZNITTTT
- Start date
I saw a party unwilling to budge on a pitifully small stimulus number, when people nationwide are struggling with making any kind of payments. I’ve been lucky to keep working, but we need to help the struggling people, not the big businesses.
dawgtrails
Footballguy
The problem is figuring out who to target. They will be using 2019 federal tax returns, and there are plenty of folks who made 50K + then who are struggling now due to covid.
Flash
Footballguy
Was Obama there? Bush? Clinton? Carter?
I mean how far back are you going with ex-Presidents who you want at something like this? Just the bad Orange man i take it?
Flash
Footballguy
I thought there were actual negotiations going on, you know good faith negotiations, a little back and forth like Biden says to the public, not his or their numbers only. I'm going to check the definition of what negotiations is, I'm guessing that like one of his predecessors, it depends on what your definition of "is" is.
Flash
Footballguy
Flash
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
There's a whole lot of muddled messaging (or maybe just whining) that I am trying to weed through. I'm trying to understand the desire here. Do we want Biden to push forward and get to the people what they need or do we want him to sit down and play patty cake "negotiating" for something less than what the people need? I guess I"m not understanding what the expectation is. Is there something in his proposal that the people in this forum feel needs to be negotiated "down"? From the parts I've read, all the things he's asking to be funded are tied to COVID in some way (and yes, that includes the $15 min wage for fed workers). So what is it people are looking to have cut out?
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Right, it seems to me this Republican proposal is a bad faith negotiation from the outset. We don't have time to entertain such things, Biden is right to give it short shrift. If the Republicans want bi-partisanship, they need to start from a place of non-obstruction. Biden can't force them to do that, and he shouldn't bother wasting time attempting to negotiate with people beginning from a place of obstruction as the desired outcome. Entertaining every non-starter position forwarded by the other party isn't equivalent to bipartisan negotiation or cooperation.
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Mile High
Footballguy
I don't care if he negotiations. Time to start putting the Senate on record with their votes.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
In todays politics "reasonable" means if you are on my side you are reasonable, if not you are unreasonable.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
That's kind of the point, though. There is a certain subset of the GOP who will scream "this isn't unity" unless Biden/Democrats give them exactly what they want. We literally saw it here in these forums, when a poster outlined what "unity" meant to him, and it was "implementing the GOP agenda".
Similarly, this is a certain subset on the other side that will scream "this isn't what I voted for" if Biden/Democrats cave even the slightest amount.
Where I think the problem exists (understanding full well that this is purely my opinion) is that the subset described in the first paragraph includes "most of the current GOP elected representatives in the House and Senate", while the subset described in the second paragraph includes "a small fringe element of the current Dem elected representatives in the House and Senate".
sho nuff
Footballguy
Well...he was the actual president when the death occurred...so not much relevance to Obama, Bush, Clinton or Carter.
sho nuff
Footballguy
I disagree...reasonable means actually being tehre for give and take. Saying...1400 is too much right off the bat when its the main part of it...and not being willing to budge is not a reasonable take. If they came in with things they knew from the start are non-starters...it likely is not a reasonable effort. That is no matter what side people are on.
dawgtrails
Footballguy
joffer
Footballguy
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Not just that, it is pretty much everything now. Do you tink if 100% Dems vote one way and 100% GOP vote another way that there is not one on either side that might disagree? They are all so fearful now of bucking the comopany line now.
I believe joe Manchin on record that he will not vote for covid relief package if $15 minimum wage included.There's a whole lot of muddled messaging (or maybe just whining) that I am trying to weed through. I'm trying to understand the desire here. Do we want Biden to push forward and get to the people what they need or do we want him to sit down and play patty cake "negotiating" for something less than what the people need? I guess I"m not understanding what the expectation is. Is there something in his proposal that the people in this forum feel needs to be negotiated "down"? From the parts I've read, all the things he's asking to be funded are tied to COVID in some way (and yes, that includes the $15 min wage for fed workers). So what is it people are looking to have cut out?
sho nuff
Footballguy
That I agree with as far as votes...have to vote the way the money will take you. Vote against your company line and money will push someone to primary you.
The Commish
Footballguy
Yes....my question is to the people HERE what THEY want...seems like the people saying both "hurry up and get it done for the people" and "needs to be bipartisan" need to figure out what they want because it's seems pretty clear that getting bipartisan buy in is going to significantly impact speed (as it usually does)...can't have it both ways. So which more important?I believe joe Manchin on record that he will not vote for covid relief package if $15 minimum wage included.There's a whole lot of muddled messaging (or maybe just whining) that I am trying to weed through. I'm trying to understand the desire here. Do we want Biden to push forward and get to the people what they need or do we want him to sit down and play patty cake "negotiating" for something less than what the people need? I guess I"m not understanding what the expectation is. Is there something in his proposal that the people in this forum feel needs to be negotiated "down"? From the parts I've read, all the things he's asking to be funded are tied to COVID in some way (and yes, that includes the $15 min wage for fed workers). So what is it people are looking to have cut out?
I'd still like to know what the people HERE object to in the Biden proposal.
DaVinci
FairTaxguy
If you posted your car for sale on Craigslist for $10,000 and someone sent you an offer of $3,000, would you even bother trying to negotiate with them? Low balling is not “good faith”.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Yeah, I would have liked to have seen some compromise. I don't like the high income thresholds (I've gotten the stimulus funds so far, and consider it unnecessary ..and I'm not going to go out and randomly spend it). I'd prefer they leave out the minimum wage issue. Regarding state/local government aid, I'm wary ...I'm in Illinois, and our Democratic leadership has been horrible with fiscal management for decades. So I don't see why Biden couldn't bring down the income thresholds, scale back the state/local support, and remove the minimum wage issue (deal with that on its own merits).Flash said:
timschochet
Footballguy
When I started the thread about this last week the main issue of concern from Republicans was the minimum wage hike.The Commish said:
I do think some Republicans will vote for the entire package though. This is why the Democrats having the majority was so important, because when you force the Republicans to actually vote on issues they turn out to be much more reasonable.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
Mookie
Footballguy
If Biden and the Democrats scale this back as you suggest, do you think Republicans will vote for it? I don't, and they've shown time and again that they won't. So why bother? It just adds delay.
I’m a fiscal conservative so there’s no safe place for me lately. I would like to see a smaller package and remove minimum wage piece. Hoping for bipartisan and think they have until mid- march to get this done. People just are receiving their $600 checks now.The Commish said:
The Commish
Footballguy
I am too...in my 46 years there's never been a "safe place" for us....do you feel that the money allocated now is "too much" for individuals given what we know about the millions that have lost their jobs and are incredibly behind on all their bills/mortgages etc? You feel like the $1400 is more than enough to cover all that?
No I’m fine with $1,400 and money for covid distribution. Believe the money to states will be a giant slush fund and get wasted so let’s cut back here A lot of people are gaming the system now. Specifically unemployment, rent/evictions etc. I owned several daycares and have employees not coming back as they’re making more on unemployment.
On a personal note, we should consider stimulus checks to non- filing us citizens. My brother, who struggles with drugs and various mental issues, hasn’t got a dime since he hasn’t worked in close to 20 years.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
tri-man 47
Footballguy
I'd say a primary reason to bother with it is to demonstrate a movement away from partisanship and show a willingness to compromise. But they should move quickly.
No, all the past stimulus programs were tied to tax filing status. So if you haven’t filed then no stimulus checks. Apparently they only want to help people that pay taxes .
The IRS had a tool on there website where you could put in your info if you were a nonfiler. Now you could file a 2020 tax return to claim the stimulus even if you don't normally file.
The Commish
Footballguy
Would you be opposed to cutting the money to states, but then giving it to individuals? I think you're using a pretty broad brush here honestly. These statements really depend on the state if we're being honest. And I'm curious to see the volume of money being "gamed" from the system by individuals. Do you have any sort of data pointing to this? Obviously, I am confident there are some gaming the system...there always are. I would just like to know what "a lot" is. I also know their ability to do so can also be tied to state rules that already exist as well. As for non-filers, I agree....they need to do a better job in getting money to them rather than making them hunt it down.
The Commish
Footballguy
This isn't true.....non filers can lay claim to their cut of the pie through the IRS, but it's not "automatic"....which is part of the problem IMO.
rockaction
Footballguy
The problem comes if they're listed as a dependent on somebody's return. But yes, non-filers are eligible for stimulus checks. Dependents aren't.
The Commish
Footballguy
All of our kids got their money (well, they didn't get it but a local charity did)...they are our dependents. That "problem" you are speaking of is a social one between that individual and the person claiming them (against their will I guess??? not really sure what you mean here) as a dependent.
rockaction
Footballguy
Really? They shouldn't have gotten that money. Whoops. I can find the relevant text if you'd like. No, I mean "problem" as in not getting money.
"For the first and second stimulus checks, Congress took a narrow view of which dependents were and weren't eligible for a payment, and some dependents you listed on your federal taxes may not have made the cut. The reason was a rule governing the first two checks that said no people over the age of 16 who are supported by their family would count toward the household total. That meant older teens, college students, older adults and older or adult children with disabilities that preclude independent living were all left out. However, the preliminary rules around the next stimulus check could change this situation in a big way."
Mookie
Footballguy
It's only compromise if both sides vote for it. Giving away your position just to have the other side walk away is foolish.
The Commish
Footballguy
Didn't know that....our kids are all under 16...thanks for the info
However, the reality is the problem here is a social one and battle between individuals on who's a dependent or not. Fortunately, my family was in favor of independence and I have never had to have that battle. When I went to college, they stopped counting me as a dependent for tax purposes.
timschochet
Footballguy
So far so good.
Just based off my business, there’s roughly 20% of our staff using unemployment since they make more money then actually working. I’d like to see a smaller package then 1.9 trillion. To expand upon state using covid money as slush fund, my state legislature has abdicated fiscal decisions and many other issues to the governor since March 2020. This has been extended to April therefore our govenor and possibly other governors can spend the covid money on anything without oversight.
The Commish
Footballguy
So you think the 1.9 trillion is more compensation out to society as a whole than is needed? I'm trying to stay out of the politics of all this and deal with the real impacts we have with or without our politicians involved. Anecdotal personal experiences don't add a ton here given we are a country of over 320M people.
The Commish
Footballguy
But DON'T give that money to the people directly? We're talking about a 1.6 trillion bill vs a 1.9 trillion bill removing the money given to states. If we take that money and allocate to people, that's another $1100 in their pockets. (roughly)
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The Commish
Footballguy
Give it to municipalities or even private businesses that have shown and can prove their worth. Or, give it to the individuals struggling. What has been thrown out there to the individuals is a fraction of what it's cost us as an overall society. Part of why I think it's important for those that can, to donate to the places local to them that really need the help.
dawgtrails
Footballguy
Is the reason they are making more on unemployment because they were making so little while working, or that the benefits in your particualr state are extremely generous?
The museum I work at is also struggling to get people to come back to work. But these are front line employees that make on average 10 bucks an hour, so I understand their hesitation.
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