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How Much Voter Fraud Happened In 2020?


Joe Bryant

How much voter fraud do you think happened in 2020?  

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3 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

LOL. I'm not talking about fraud allegations when I mentioned being disingenuous.

Now, as far as the fraud allegations, you have a lot of catching up to do.

Like I said, looks like we're going to have to play the long game to uncover any potential fraud (unfortunately).

There are no legit fraud allegations. There are only vague affidavits, none of which actually contain evidence of fraud.

These are all little more than desperate hail marys by a losing candidate.

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19 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

Somebody had to say it. Disingenuous doesn't even do it justice. I had to snicker when I saw the first thread on it in here (even though I know JB was genuine about it).

Now the Dems are wanting to shake hands? Riiiiiight, LOL. You guys created the rules during the last cycle. Now you have to play by them. It's akin to getting punched in the mouth, not punching back, then the guy asking to shake your hand. :)

MAYBE we can shake hands in 24, but from the looks of what's going on right now with legit fraud allegations, we could be in some real ****. 

I'm a "hope cooler heads prevail guy" (I have two grandkids), but turning your cheek doesn't apply in some situations. That's what we're faced with now. If you're so inclined, you might want to hit your knees & pray. We're at a significant crossroads right now.

The only problem here is Trump and his supporters were not just innocent victims...this notion that they were all just punched and not instigators in as much of the fighting as the left is just flat out dishonest.

I don't think anyone else is pretending that the Democrats are all just innocent in the fighting that happened...the point still is that both sides are culpable in the toxic atmosphere we have today...and that reaching out to compromise...reaching out to do better...reaching out for healing is a good thing.  Its what should be done.  And the digging in of the heals and saying heck no, you all suck is not helpful at all and is why we will be stuck in a toxic mess until people can set aside the crap and start to move forward.

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Just now, sho nuff said:

Then provide actual examples rather than this vague thing...I mean actual examples.  

Id ask you to look beyond your feelings towards Trump and understand what voter fraud really is to make such a claim.

Thus far...not really any smoke or fire that I have seen from any legitimate source.

Then you can't be looking very hard. I'm not going to do the work for you. Then again, if you discredit everything automatically, there'll never be any legit fraud for you, will there? You'll always have a problem with it even if there's obvious fraud found.

Again, I'm assuming all the evidence will be presented in time (whatever it is).

I know you guys are wanting this to be over, but we have to vette this election.

 

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1 minute ago, Sea Duck said:

The Trump lawyer was promoting a false narrative that had already been debunked: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/04/fact-check-typo-led-false-post-michigan-votes-biden/6164385002/

The sad thing is that Trump supporters are still promoting the fake news a week later.

But this isn't really a case of slander or libel because the lawyer can just point to Twitter and say "I saw it there" and he's off the hook.

Like I was saying, there's at least 67-68-70M that voted for him? I don't know the total number, a good deal less than Biden got but % wise almost 1 in 2 Americans who voted for President pressed the Trump lever. It's not like it's just a couple million people and you can just exterminate them like cockroaches, that can't be the plan. 

You can't just turn your back on these folks and expect things to go smooth. Biden already acknowledged it in his acceptance speech. 

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12 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

You guys really think conservatives are corrupt (as a whole), don't you?

Haha.

 

No.  Is Trump?  I believe so yes.  Are some that are supporting him...meaning some in congress...yes, likely so.  Are all?  No, nobody claiming as much either.

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2 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

There are no legit fraud allegations. There are only vague affidavits, none of which actually contain evidence of fraud.

These are all little more than desperate hail marys by a losing candidate.

I suppose that's a possibility, but they are too numerous & too severe to ignore.

You know what they say about smoke & fire.

Come on, guys. This has to be vetted. We have no other choice.

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1 minute ago, fissure man said:

We like to use things called facts, not emotion. 

The problem is that the only "facts" submitted so far have been emotionally-based statements which have not held up in court. Republicans are slowly destroying their reputation for being followers of facts and laws.

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1 minute ago, sho nuff said:

Because the throwing out random claims and assertions without any evidence is a dangerous precedent.  Because its not good for the Republic or normal at all.  Because its delaying things getting done the way they should to ensure a proper and peaceful transition of power.

 

Do you have any evidence that suggest there wasn’t fraud? 
 

Why must we, a bunch of commoners on a message board, not actual lawyers who are privy to this stuff have evidence but you don’t need anything but the good word of liberal news?   
 

That’s what the lawyers are doing folks. They are looking for fraud and you guys are just saying there isn’t any. 
 

We are going to find out. One of us is acting defensive and projecting. 
 

 

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1 minute ago, Football Jones said:

I suppose that's a possibility, but they are too numerous & too severe to ignore.

You know what they say about smoke & fire.

Come on, guys. This has to be vetted. We have no other choice.

And yet, you can't even list one.

Edited by Bamboo Bill
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Just now, Football Jones said:
4 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

There are no legit fraud allegations. There are only vague affidavits, none of which actually contain evidence of fraud.

These are all little more than desperate hail marys by a losing candidate.

I suppose that's a possibility, but they are too numerous & too severe to ignore.

You know what they say about smoke & fire.

Come on, guys. This has to be vetted. We have no other choice.

The only smoke is from phony fires started by Trump and his supporters. These phony fires have been completely doused by the courts.

I agree that it's too numerous, though. The complaints and the nuisance lawsuits should have stopped after the first 3 or 4 cases were dismissed. It's really getting embarrassing for the Republican party and they are in danger of destroying their reputation for integrity.

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2 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

Then you can't be looking very hard. I'm not going to do the work for you. Then again, if you discredit everything automatically, there'll never be any legit fraud for you, will there? You'll always have a problem with it even if there's obvious fraud found.

Again, I'm assuming all the evidence will be presented in time (whatever it is).

I know you guys are wanting this to be over, but we have to vette this election.

 

You have been asked to provide such instances or evidence...once again, you provide nothing.  Just that others need to look harder.  That is a copout at best.

I was an auditor for almost 15 years(including multiple fraud investigations during that time)...I do contract work now in forensic/fraud auditing.  Yes...there can be legit fraud to me...I know quite well what fraud looks like...and what evidence of fraud looks like.

You claim there is smoke and fire...then post it.  Bring it to our attention rather than vague claims that its out there.

It is over...the election was vetted as it was ongoing...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/us/politics/voting-fraud.html

The claims right now appear to be wishful thinking of those who are upset that Trump lost.

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8 minutes ago, fissure man said:

You are aware that you guys don’t actually have the force, right? Some of us aren’t dumb enough to to just parrot what’s told to ya and we’ll abide. 
 

We like to use things called facts, not emotion. 
 

If all the votes are checked and Biden wins I will support the POTUS. 
 

If all the votes are checked and Trump is completely wrong and it was all nonsense then I will denounce it. 
 

This isn’t hard for half of us. Again, we aren’t the one burning #### down when things don’t go our way. 

And on that note, I can see Florida is taking aggressive action by the Governor here to legally allow those with arms to actively participate in the taking of lives when looting and rioting break out.(I'm not kidding) I was stunned to hear that folks in communities can come out armed and start playing Duck Hunt when looting and riots break out which BTW, what is the definition of looting and rioting or is it like pornography where you know it when you see it? 

I live here in Florida, support citizens protecting their homes and personal property but this is a whole different ball of wax IMHO. 

Edited by Ministry of Pain
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1 minute ago, fissure man said:

Do you have any evidence that suggest there wasn’t fraud? 

Not how it works. No accuser can ever ask a party to prove a negative ""... there wasn’t fraud"). Negatives cannot be proven.

If a lawyer files a suit that requests the opposing party to prove a negative, a judge summarily rejects the suit.

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Just now, fissure man said:

This. This is what I’m talking about. 
 

You also have zero knowledge of what you’re professing! You don’t know any more than we do- why are you so adamant?    Just cause? 

Studies have been done on voter fraud in the past. They didn't find any worth noting.

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4 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:
10 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

The Trump lawyer was promoting a false narrative that had already been debunked: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/04/fact-check-typo-led-false-post-michigan-votes-biden/6164385002/

The sad thing is that Trump supporters are still promoting the fake news a week later.

But this isn't really a case of slander or libel because the lawyer can just point to Twitter and say "I saw it there" and he's off the hook.

Like I was saying, there's at least 67-68-70M that voted for him? I don't know the total number, a good deal less than Biden got but % wise almost 1 in 2 Americans who voted for President pressed the Trump lever. It's not like it's just a couple million people and you can just exterminate them like cockroaches, that can't be the plan. 

What are you talking about? When I said "Trump supporters are still promoting fake news," I was talking about the Trump supporters on Fox News and in this forum. Not the 70 million who voted for him.

But, anyway, I have no idea how to convince people that they are falling for and promoting fake news. Seems like it would be a pretty tough task if there are 70 million of them.

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1 minute ago, fissure man said:

This. This is what I’m talking about. 
 

You also have zero knowledge of what you’re professing! You don’t know any more than we do- why are you so adamant?    Just cause? 

lol...seriously?

I know all the lawsuits have been thrown out. 

I know you can't provide any factual evidence of voter fraud.

I don't need to do anything else.

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6 minutes ago, fissure man said:

Do you have any evidence that suggest there wasn’t fraud? 
 

Why must we, a bunch of commoners on a message board, not actual lawyers who are privy to this stuff have evidence but you don’t need anything but the good word of liberal news?   
 

That’s what the lawyers are doing folks. They are looking for fraud and you guys are just saying there isn’t any. 
 

We are going to find out. One of us is acting defensive and projecting. 
 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/us/politics/voting-fraud.html

Yes...and this is still laughable for you all to want evidence to prove a negative without being willing to provide anything legitimate to support any claims of fraud.

I would say why must you?  Because you are the ones making claims that there are smoke and fire...that there are obvious instances and evidence of fraud.  And its been established by the moderators of this board that if you are going to make claims and assertions of fact...taht you provide credible links to show as much rather than just making accusations without any support.

Those opposing those claims have pointed to the numerous court cases and articles like this one I am linking to.

The point is...they are "looking for fraud"...because their guy lost the election.  Not because there is actually legitimate claims of any massive rampant fraud that would have affected even the narrowest margin in this election.

Projecting?  Hah!!!

Edited by sho nuff
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Just now, Sea Duck said:

What are you talking about? When I said "Trump supporters are still promoting fake news," I was talking about the Trump supporters on Fox News and in this forum. Not the 70 million who voted for him.

But, anyway, I have no idea how to convince people that they are falling for and promoting fake news. Seems like it would be a pretty tough task if there are 70 million of them.

That was my point friend, you're lumping them into one block, you're saying all in this forum and I think that's a mistake. Again, IMHO

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7 minutes ago, Bamboo Bill said:

And yet, you can't eve list one.

There was a vid in this very thread about a bunch of affidavits detailing various shananigans. And lots of other stuff, too (look around). 

Plus, it looks bad for you guys to try to sweep it under the rug. Just go with it. We all need to know if there was fraud involved & on what scale.

 

Edited by Football Jones
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4 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

The problem is that the only "facts" submitted so far have been emotionally-based statements which have not held up in court. Republicans are slowly destroying their reputation for being followers of facts and laws.


 They are slowly destroying their reputation. 
*play in Dramatic music*

Dear god, why does everything you guys y’all about sound so miserable? 
 

THIS IS THE END OF TIMES!!!  

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11 minutes ago, Bamboo Bill said:

lol...seriously?

I know all the lawsuits have been thrown out. 

I know you can't provide any factual evidence of voter fraud.

I don't need to do anything else.

And neither can you. Youre some dude on a message board. As am I. 

Edited by fissure man
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2 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

There was a vid in this very thread about a bunch of affidavits detailing various shananigans. And lots of other stuff, too (look around). 

Plus, it looks bad for you guys to try to sweep it around the rug. Just go with it. We all need to know if there was fraud involved & on what scale.

 

Is this relevant to your interests?

https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/1326607989571194887

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3 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

Well, thankfully, American law does not place the burden on those who are asked to prove a negative.

 

Right. That’s awesome. 

However you, stranger on an internet message board, you know nothing yet you’re acting as if you do. 
 

Im not Trumps lawyers. How am I gonna prove anything? Break into their office? Should I try and call Giuliani? Think he’ll take my call? 
 

I know, you call him. 

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14 minutes ago, fissure man said:

You are aware that you guys don’t actually have the force, right? Some of us aren’t dumb enough to to just parrot what’s told to ya and we’ll abide. 
 

We like to use things called facts, not emotion. 
 

If all the votes are checked and Biden wins I will support the POTUS. 
 

If all the votes are checked and Trump is completely wrong and it was all nonsense then I will denounce it. 
 

This isn’t hard for half of us. Again, we aren’t the one burning #### down when things don’t go our way. 

I'm not saying you are using emotions - you are using lies and not facts - whether you are doing it intentionally or not I have no clue and honestly don't care.  I will just keep pointing out that what your are saying is not reality.  I'm not burning anything down - I'm 100% convinced Biden won legitimately and will be the next President.

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so from what I can tell, the best evidence of fraud is a single, often disciplined, post-office employee signed a non-legally binding affidavit that he heard someone say that ballots in the mail were post-dated.  When questioned by authorities, he recanted.  Afterwards, he recanted his recant.  We also have the sexual predator New Jersey GOP former candidate that claimed he was a poll watcher in Philly.

Is that the best we have right now?

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4 minutes ago, moleculo said:

so from what I can tell, the best evidence of fraud is a single, often disciplined, post-office employee signed a non-legally binding affidavit that he heard someone say that ballots in the mail were post-dated.  When questioned by authorities, he recanted.  Afterwards, he recanted his recant.  We also have the sexual predator New Jersey GOP former candidate that claimed he was a poll watcher in Philly.

Is that the best we have right now?

No, there are several more allegations and affidavits out there. I imagine that number will continue to increase for a while.

Here's an example. I don't know if this has actually been submitted to a court. 

Edited by Gr00vus
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1 minute ago, AAABatteries said:

I'm not saying you are using emotions - you are using lies and not facts - whether you are doing it intentionally or not I have no clue and honestly don't care.  I will just keep pointing out that what your are saying is not reality.  I'm not burning anything down - I'm 100% convinced Biden won legitimately and will be the next President.


 

Im “using lies and not facts”. 
 

When did I lie?

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3 minutes ago, fissure man said:

Right. That’s awesome. 

However you, stranger on an internet message board, you know nothing yet you’re acting as if you do. 
 

Im not Trumps lawyers. How am I gonna prove anything? Break into their office? Should I try and call Giuliani? Think he’ll take my call
 

I know, you call him. 

Are you Russian?

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39 minutes ago, fissure man said:


All I’ve seen is the media declare Biden and say that Trump is just talking baseless claims and he’s a troll for questioning the hearts and minds of random people. He should just concede and he’s an awful person for messing with the sanctity of the transition of power. Lol more hyperbole based on visceral emotions. 
 

 

All I’m seeing from the Republicans is them saying the mail in ballets are of concern, upwards of 500k ballet weren’t reviewed properly. 

 

I don’t know if any of it is true, untrue, frivolous or not- but I’m willing to wait to find out. I don’t think it will change the election but I can’t say for sure. 
 

I don’t think it’s right for people to raise their nose at the system just because it serves the outcome they want. Im interested in what’s right, that’s it. 

Lolz.  This is what Trump wants and what Trumps does.  Throw enough mud in the water and make the entire process look crooked.  Quit acting like its some 𝒷ℯ𝓃ℯ𝓋ℴ𝓁ℯ𝓃𝓉 𝓆𝓊ℯ𝓈𝓉 𝒻ℴ𝓇 𝓉𝒽ℯ 𝓉𝓇𝓊𝓉𝒽. This is what he does.  He bandied for weeks about fraud being the only way he could lose and *EGADS* here he is throwing accusations, fabric of our democracy be damned.  He called his shot and here you have sycophants tripping all over themselves trying to find something, anything(!) to please dear leader.  Here he was in 2016 when he lost Iowa to Ted Cruz in the primary. Link

Quote

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

Feb 3, 2016

Based on the fraud committed by Senator Ted Cruz during the Iowa Caucus, either a new election should take place or Cruz results nullified.

Just stop it.  Quit acting like its some innocent "just asking questions".  At least call it what it is: A) fundraising effort for Team Trump, Inc. B) cowardly last fealty to the guy they're worried will still be calling the shots in the GOP in 2021.  Its truly embarassing. 

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1 minute ago, fissure man said:

Im “using lies and not facts”. 
 

When did I lie?

"All the republicans are asking for is to make sure all the votes are legal and there’s no shenanigans. Once again, the dems want to skirt the law and procedure and just claim the bad orange man that hurts your feelings should just bow down cause that’s what everyone you know says. "

That's your quote and that is not true.

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7 minutes ago, Bamboo Bill said:

Wait...did you actually read those affiant's statements??

There was over 200 affidavits. Some detailing massive signature fraud & multiple same-ballot runs.

Sidney Powell uncovered some nasty allegations, as well. The list goes on & on.

This is going to happen whether you like it or not. This is the USA & still the land of the free.

We, the people, run the show.

Edited by Football Jones
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4 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

No, there are several more allegations and affidavits out there. I imagine that number will continue to increase for a while.

I think so too.  It's impossible to have an election of this magnitude and not have some shenanigans somewhere.  IMO things happen on both sides and they tend to cancel each other out and/or be insignificant WRT the overall vote total.

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3 minutes ago, Uwe Blab said:

Lolz.  This is what Trump wants and what Trumps does.  Throw enough mud in the water and make the entire process look crooked.  Quit acting like its some 𝒷ℯ𝓃ℯ𝓋ℴ𝓁ℯ𝓃𝓉 𝓆𝓊ℯ𝓈𝓉 𝒻ℴ𝓇 𝓉𝒽ℯ 𝓉𝓇𝓊𝓉𝒽. This is what he does.  He bandied for weeks about fraud being the only way he could lose and *EGADS* here he is throwing accusations, fabric of our democracy be damned.  He called his shot and here you have sycophants tripping all over themselves trying to find something, anything(!) to please dear leader.  Here he was in 2016 when he lost Iowa to Ted Cruz in the primary. Link

Just stop it.  Quit acting like its some innocent "just asking questions".  At least call it what it is: A) fundraising effort for Team Trump, Inc. B) cowardly last fealty to the guy they're worried will still be calling the shots in the GOP in 2021.  Its truly embarassing. 


You seem slightly upset. Emotional even. Maybe take a break. 
 

Oh, and here in America, at least for now, we call them Presidents, not “leader”.

 

 

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1 minute ago, RUSF18 said:

Have you people really been dealing with posts like these on here for years? JFC. 

It comes and goes. Best advice is to use the ignore feature and to try not to engage those who are making obviously untenable arguments. It's also advisable to not describe them as "trolling" or "disingenuous" or "bad faith" because it's impossible to know if they truly believe in the arguments they are promoting.

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2 minutes ago, moleculo said:

I think so too.  It's impossible to have an election of this magnitude and not have some shenanigans somewhere.  IMO things happen on both sides and they tend to cancel each other out and/or be insignificant WRT the overall vote total.


For the record, this his where I think it likely lands....There was some voter fraud but not enough to change the result. 


Good luck folks. We aren’t going to agree today. I honestly wish you all the best and the next beer is on me.

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1 minute ago, fissure man said:


For the record, this his where I think it likely lands....There was some voter fraud but not enough to change the result. 


Good luck folks. We aren’t going to agree today. I honestly wish you all the best and the next beer is on me.

au contraire.  I think we did just agree on something.

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50 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

I just want the truth to come out regarding any potential fraud.

 

No you don’t. You want your guy to be given a win he didn’t earn so you and others are taking any desperate route necessary, including but not limited to, crapping all over democracy in order to make it look like trump didn’t take a huge loss. 
 

But he did, and he’ll be gone in 70 days. No amount of message board bluster and crying will stop that. 

Edited by Capella
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