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How Much Voter Fraud Happened In 2020?


Joe Bryant

How much voter fraud do you think happened in 2020?  

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24 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

I'm rooting for the truth, but if I were you (a Dem), I'd be concerned about Biden actually taking the WH.

This fraud stuff is no joke. A GA election official already admitted they'll find fraud (he mentioned double votes & deceased votes). What we need to know is how much is (D) & how much is (R). Especially concerning for (D) is the path to victory in PA depending on how many ballots are bogus. This will very likely go to the SC.

I like your confidence, though. I'm not really confident on what's going to transpire, myself.

I'm not a Democrat, in fact once upon a time, I was a Republican. But the fraud the GOP is betting their political lives on happens every election, and it happens on both sides of the aisle. The recount will just confirm Biden's win.

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39 minutes ago, Kal El said:

I'm not a Democrat, in fact once upon a time, I was a Republican. But the fraud the GOP is betting their political lives on happens every election, and it happens on both sides of the aisle. The recount will just confirm Biden's win.

I'm curious to see if there's going to be a disproportionate number of fraudulent votes favoring one party.

If there is, we got a problem.

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6 hours ago, dkp993 said:

Unfortunately for some the bolded is absolutely true.  My wife was texting with a friend of hers who’s a hardcore MAGA person. They were going back an forth with the typical talking points nonsense, had my wife ask her if she truly believes that the voting in states where Trump won was perfect and completely free of fraud but in the states he lost that cheating was afoot. She replied with a definite YES. Said Trump supporters would never cheat.  

Trump supporters would never cheat because Trump himself would never cheat? I don't know how to communicate with a person like that. I'm not trying to be mean but it really is a waste of time. 

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20 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

I'm curious to see if there's going to be a disproportionate number of fraudulent votes favoring one party.

If there is, we got a problem.

And if they find nothing are you going to continue to believe it's happening and they just haven't been caught? People have been looking for decades and found nothing. That in itself is mounting evidence that it's not actually happening. 

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38 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

I'm curious to see if there's going to be a disproportionate number of fraudulent votes favoring one party.

If there is, we got a problem.

So far, most of what fraud that has allegedly occurred seems to be coming in on the side of the GOP.

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37 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

I'm curious to see if there's going to be a disproportionate number of fraudulent votes favoring one party.

If there is, we got a problem.

Agreed.  So far the reports that I've seen of actual fraudulent votes have been cast by Republicans.   I am sure there are a few on both sides but if the trend continues the GOP may lose some of the house and senate seats they've supposedly won.

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58 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

Agreed.  So far the reports that I've seen of actual fraudulent votes have been cast by Republicans.   I am sure there are a few on both sides but if the trend continues the GOP may lose some of the house and senate seats they've supposedly won.

In addition to fraudulent claims of fraud.

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4 hours ago, Football Jones said:

Looks like there's a lot more votes hanging in the balance in PA than originally advertised. Also, lots of reports about irregularities in GA. I guess there's a hand audit coming which is key to finding fraud.

Long, long way from over, guys.

Let's hope the truth comes out. I'm good with the truth (whatever it is).

Where does it look like that?  The issue people keep raising with you is that you pop on, post something like this...get asked what yiu are talking about...and provide  no example and no link to support it.  Which makes it look like the reason you are posting it is to get a reaction from people.

The truth is Biden’s margin in the key states is bigger  than  what Trump won with in 2016.

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11 hours ago, 2Squirrels1Nut said:

This charade needs to end, now. 

See....I disagree with this 10000%.  I think it needs to continue.  We've been through a lot as a country, most of it negative.  This is a show for the ages.  We deserve this bit of comedy after all the crap we've been through.  Reality is, it's totally expected and a REALLY good illustration of why we have the republic and laws we do.  Is it absurd to see the behavior?  Yes.  Is Trump fulfilling just about every stereotype of America the rest of the world has put upon us?  Yes.  But this is the process, so I say sit back and enjoy the show.  We are not likely to get a show like this again in our lifetimes.

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31 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Where does it look like that?  The issue people keep raising with you is that you pop on, post something like this...get asked what yiu are talking about...and provide  no example and no link to support it.  Which makes it look like the reason you are posting it is to get a reaction from people.

The truth is Biden’s margin in the key states is bigger  than  what Trump won with in 2016.

I’m not sure why anyone keeps replying to FJ at this point.  It’s not a real conversation.  It’s more like someone putting their hands over their ears and saying “la la la la la” anytime you challenge them.  
 

While it’s important to make an honest effort to engage people, at some point it’s time to move on.

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23 hours ago, cashman88 said:

Trump’s press secretary says they have 11K fraud incident reports and 500 affidavits thus far. I think Trump will be able to provide enough evidence of fraud to get past summary judgment. But the alleged fraud will be de minimus and Trump will ultimately lose because he can’t prove enough fraud happened to change the outcome.

The problem for Biden is that this whole process is loosely structured and the rules are vague. Trump will exploit that.

This won’t be finished until mid-December. 

And probably 10,999 of those fraud incident reports are like the "report" Chet posted in the 2020 election thread: "My friend has a friend in PA who says he voted for Trump, but when he checked online, it says he voted for Biden!" Of course, there is no possible mechanism to check PA results to see who you voted for, but, hey, it's a fraud incident report. 

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23 hours ago, Biff84 said:

The opening/contacting before 11/3 may have some legs if true. State law kept them from doing anything with the ballots until Election Day which is why it took so long to count. If there’s proof they did that, there might be trouble but doubtful it’s enough to change anything.

Another misinterpretation of what happened, based on a lack of understanding of PA mail-in procedure.  For about the 100th time (I may have to copy this to a Word file so I can copy and paste it): My PA mail-in ballot had to be folded and placed in a "secrecy envelope" (literally, an envelope that came with the ballot labelled "Secret Ballot" that was not allowed to have any other markings on it). The PA Supreme Court ruled that any ballot that was returned without being in a pristine secrecy envelope was unacceptable and could not be counted. That secrecy ballot had to be sealed and placed inside the return envelope also provided with the ballot. I had to print my name and address and then sign and date that return envelope prior to returning it. When the county election office received that package, it used the info to mark the PA database that my vote had been received, generating a notice to me of that.  Prior to the election, it became clear that some of those outer return envelopes had not been completed properly. For example, when my wife signed hers, she forgot to include her middle initial because she never uses it. However, her voter registration does use it. We caught it before we returned the ballot and she squeezed the initial in. If we hadn't caught it, the ballot may have been rejected for a "non-matching" signature. Others forgot to date their envelopes or didn't print their address on it.  An uproar ensued: "Why shouldn't legitimate ballots be counted, just because the voter didn't include their middle initial in their signature? Thousands of ballots are at risk! Voter fraud!" In response, the PA Secretary of State contacted all of the local election offices (one in each of PA's 67 counties) and said something along the lines of "Let's not get so hypertechnical that we reject legitimate ballots without giving people a chance to correct those minor errors.  When you get an outer envelope that you think has an error that can be corrected, contact the voter and give them the opportunity to do so. If they come to your office before election day and present proper ID, let them add their initial or date the envelope or whatever it takes to fix that outer envelope." Note that the elections office was not allowed to even remove the secrecy envelope from the outer envelope (let alone open the secrecy envelope or look at the ballot) until election day, thanks to our GOP-controlled state legislature's refusal to pass a law letting them start the process earlier.

The Trump team has now claimed that letting legitimate voters correct minor issues on their outer envelopes prior to election day so that their votes could actually count is "voter fraud". Yes, you read that right: letting voters make sure their ballots are counted is fraud. The Trump team's reason for this astounding conclusion? In the Complaint they filed suing the counties where Biden had a majority of the votes, they allege that Republican-controlled counties (those that weren't sued) REFUSED to follow the Secretary of State's directions and didn't give their voters the ability to correct their outer envelopes (could that be because everyone knew that mail-in ballots were far more likely to be from voters who supported Biden rather than from those who supported the candidate saying not to vote by mail?). From the Trump team's warped logic, the failure of the Republicans to make an effort to allow legitimate voters to make sure their votes actually counted is a violation of the equal protection clause of the Constitution. That's right: "Our supporters didn't give voters the rights anyone with common sense knows that they should have had, so don't count the votes the other guy got." 

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38 minutes ago, apalmer said:

And probably 10,999 of those fraud incident reports are like the "report" Chet posted in the 2020 election thread: "My friend has a friend in PA who says he voted for Trump, but when he checked online, it says he voted for Biden!" Of course, there is no possible mechanism to check PA results to see who you voted for, but, hey, it's a fraud incident report. 

Or like the sworn affidavit by the postal worker who then essentially recanted, denied he recanted, then his own secretly recorded audio basically confirmed that he recanted.

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4 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

Or like the sworn affidavit by the postal worker who then essentially recanted, denied he recanted, then his own secretly recorded audio basically confirmed that he recanted.

Link

Seems the point of a lot of this is to create these "affidivits" outside of a court where people claim something under penalty of perjury.  Of course...it only comes to that if they are submitted in court.  When they ever get asked to testify actually under that oath, they tell a different story...when back out in the media, its back to making whatever claim they want.

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3 hours ago, Milkman said:

Trump supporters would never cheat because Trump himself would never cheat? I don't know how to communicate with a person like that. I'm not trying to be mean but it really is a waste of time. 

That’s almost word for word what I told my wife.   

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3 hours ago, Milkman said:

I'm curious what it would take to convince Trump supporters that there was no significant fraud in the presidential race. 

I don't think I've ever considered myself a die hard Trump supporter.  I'm a Republican and voted for him.  I think there was a miniscule amount of fraud that didn't amount to anything.  

There are a lot of Republicans I know that have that view point.  There are however, a lot that think there was fraud.  The Republican party is currently eating their own.   A lot of people are tweeting out how so and so is a traitor or what have you when they've Trump wasn't going to win or needed to concede etc.  

There's ZERO percent chance Trump pulls this thing out.  The GOP is going to waste millions in resources and god knows how much time on this.  I guess Biden will have a legal team?  But does he even need one at this point.  I wish Mitch and the gang would congratulate Biden and use the loss to motivate voters in Georgia.  We need to be pouring resources into that.  

 

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5 hours ago, Football Jones said:

A GA election official already admitted they'll find fraud (he mentioned double votes & deceased votes).

Super convenient how you left out the next two sentences of the statement though. He said because they fraud in every election and he expects it to be minor like it always is.

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22 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Super convenient how you left out the next two sentences of the statement though. He said because they fraud in every election and he expects it to be minor like it always is.

I don't believe that's what he actually said. I remember him saying something to the effect he doesn't know if it's going to be 10,000 votes.

Either way, we gonna find out. Like I said, I'm curious to see if there's a disproportionate amount from one side (& which side it is).

If it's WAY one-sided in favor of blue, we need hand audits in several places.

 

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3 hours ago, sho nuff said:

Where does it look like that?  The issue people keep raising with you is that you pop on, post something like this...get asked what yiu are talking about...and provide  no example and no link to support it.  Which makes it look like the reason you are posting it is to get a reaction from people.

The truth is Biden’s margin in the key states is bigger  than  what Trump won with in 2016.

I've been talking about stuff that's already been linked for the most part. The PA thing was from a professor.

Even if I had the link handy, you would discredit it. This is a one-sided conversation because, well, you don't believe there's ANY possibility of fraud, which we know is false (& you know it deep down).

You're the one posting to get a reaction, LOL. FJ just tryin' to get us upset! STOP THE INVESTIGATION!!!

;)

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25 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Super convenient how you left out the next two sentences of the statement though. He said because they fraud in every election and he expects it to be minor like it always is.

I'm getting the sense that Football Jones may not be as impartial as he's leading us to believe.

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30 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

I don't believe that's what he actually said. I remember him saying something to the effect he doesn't know if it's going to be 10,000 votes.

Either way, we gonna find out. Like I said, I'm curious to see if there's a disproportionate amount from one side (& which side it is).

If it's WAY one-sided in favor of blue, we need hand audits in several places.

 

Elections get audited every time they’re done. Nothing is ever found, nor will it be here. 

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1 hour ago, jm192 said:

I don't think I've ever considered myself a die hard Trump supporter.  I'm a Republican and voted for him.  I think there was a miniscule amount of fraud that didn't amount to anything.  

There are a lot of Republicans I know that have that view point.  There are however, a lot that think there was fraud.  The Republican party is currently eating their own.   A lot of people are tweeting out how so and so is a traitor or what have you when they've Trump wasn't going to win or needed to concede etc.  

There's ZERO percent chance Trump pulls this thing out.  The GOP is going to waste millions in resources and god knows how much time on this.  I guess Biden will have a legal team?  But does he even need one at this point.  I wish Mitch and the gang would congratulate Biden and use the loss to motivate voters in Georgia.  We need to be pouring resources into that.  

 

Well recent polls suggest 8 out of 10 Trump supporters disagree with you. The fact significant voter fraud in the presidential election has never been prosecuted and 8 of 10 Trump still believe it happened in this election is sad. There's a lot of people being fooled by Trump. 

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8 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Well recent polls suggest 8 out of 10 Trump supporters disagree with you. The fact significant voter fraud in the presidential election has never been prosecuted and 8 of 10 Trump still believe it happened in this election is sad. There's a lot of people being fooled by Trump. 

I am afraid this has been the case for the last 4-5 years.   Trump is a lot of bad things but he is a great con man. Many people say he is the greatest of all time.

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13 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Well recent polls suggest 8 out of 10 Trump supporters disagree with you. The fact significant voter fraud in the presidential election has never been prosecuted and 8 of 10 Trump still believe it happened in this election is sad. There's a lot of people being fooled by Trump. 

Regarding polls, that is interesting to me.

I posted a Reuters/Ipsos poll earlier in the thread, but have yet to find others.

Does anyone have links to these? I'd love to keep a pulse on this.

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Addendum:

I just found a poll from The Guardian: 70% of Republicans say election wasn't 'free and fair' despite no evidence of fraud – study

 

Quote

78% of Republicans who alleged unfairness said mail-in ballots spurred fraud, while 72% believed ballot tampering occurred

Victoria Bekiempis in New York

Tue 10 Nov 2020 11.12 ESTLast modified on Tue 10 Nov 2020 13.24 EST

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 A supporter of Donald Trump holds a sign during a rally in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Photograph: Bastiaan Slabbers/Reuters

According to a new survey, 70% of Republicans do not believe the presidential election was “free and fair”, even though multiple news outlets have called it for Joe Biden.

There has been a dramatic decline in Republican voters’ faith in the system. Before the election, in the same Politico/Morning Consult poll, 35% of Republicans thought the vote would not be free and fair.

More Democrats voiced trust in the election, 90% saying they thought the results were “free and fair”, up 52% from the pre-election poll.

Among Republicans who thought the election wasn’t fair, 78% thought mail-in ballots spurred extensive voter fraud, while 72% believed ballot tampering occurred.

Donald Trump and his supporters continue to allege such problems, without offering any substantiating evidence whatsoever.

On Monday the attorney general, William Barr, authorized federal prosecutors to investigate “substantial allegations” of voter irregularities, a decision which marked a sharp turn from Department of Justice policy and was made without citing any evidence of voter fraud.

The White House press secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, reiterated Trump’s refusal to concede and repeated accusations of voter fraud. Fox News, which has historically treated Trump more charitably, cut away from her press conference.

 

Among Republican voters surveyed by Politico and Morning Consult, 84% said the election helped Biden. Before election day, 18% of Republicans said they thought results would be unreliable. Now, that number has surged to 64%. Among Democrats, 86% said they trusted the results.

Republicans thought results in swing states were especially questionable, particularly in Pennsylvania, which counted ballots for four days before Biden won it. Republican-to-Democrat distrust in Pennsylvania’s results was 62% to 8%.

GOP voters voiced similar distrust in Wisconsin, Nevada, Georgia and Arizona. But Republicans were divided on whether the winner would change under Trump’s legal onslaught. Of such voters, 38% said they thought results would be reversed and 45% did not.

The poll, carried out between 6 November and 9 November, surveyed 1,987 registered voters and had a 2% margin of error. The majority of calls were conducted after news outlets called the race for Biden.

Several weeks ago, a Yahoo! News poll conducted by YouGov found that half of Trump supporters believed in QAnon, the false conspiracy theory that a group of Satan-worshipping Democrats, billionaires and celebrities control the world while carrying out pedophilia and human trafficking.

QAnon’s followers also believe that these people harvest a purportedly life-extending substance from the blood of exploited children.

...

 

Edited by Man of Constant Sorrow
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32 minutes ago, Capella said:

Elections get audited every time they’re done. Nothing is ever found, nor will it be here. 

Yep. Here is an info graphic of a representative mail-in ballot process in San Mateo County, California. I have great doubts that anyplace else in the U.S. diverges very much in terms of process. And to be clear: that covers also absentee ballots and overseas military/diplomatic ballots. And also to be clear -- observers from both major parties (and some more besides) are present for every step in the process and can (and do) raise challenges in real time as the process continues.

OK, so that's mail-in -- what about in person? Also audited -- essentially, the roll-checking that occurs when you arrive in person at your precinct are equivalent to Steps 1-7 in the infograph. The actual in-person voter actions in the booth -- "flipping the levers", pressing the touchscreen, whatever -- are equivalent to Steps 8 and 9. And a post-election audit of in-person ballots still takes place (Step 10).

All that is before any further auditing is ordered by local or state election officials, before any statutory recounts due to narrow margins of victory, and before any post-certification recounts requested by one or more of the campaigns.

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2 hours ago, Football Jones said:

Surely you guys realize this has to take place now. Trump has a right to fight it, especially given all the allegations. The Dems would want the same thing.

You should actually welcome it. Elections are the heartbeat of a democracy.

Sure...I am enjoying the show.  He has the right to fight it.  The bold is completely unnecessary though.  It's almost like you're trying to convince yourself when you write stuff like this.  So far, the allegations here are more toothless than the garden variety we hear about every other election cycle that pass as a non-event.  He's free to "fight" all he wants, but right now, he's in the corner taking swings at his own shadow :shrug: 

Edited by The Commish
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25 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Sure...I am enjoying the show.  He has the right to fight it.  The bold is completely unnecessary though.  It's almost like you're trying to convince yourself when you write stuff like this.  So far, the allegations here are more toothless than the garden variety we hear about every other election cycle that pass as a non-event.  He's free to "fight" all he wants, but right now, he's in the corner taking swings at his own shadow :shrug: 

There are temporal limits to this, are there not?

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36 minutes ago, Mile High said:

Going to put this here for anyone interested in a tweeter feed of the hearings of a case in Arizona  going on today. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1326940259788206093

Sounds like the Trump campaign has abandoned its claims of "fraud" and are now asking the judge to throw out the vote because the system itself is not perfect.

Also, Trump's lawyer admitted that their sworn affidavits are "clearly false" and largely "spam." :lol:

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2 hours ago, Osaurus said:
2 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

Wow.     it probably happens more than we think but that is awful.  

Wasn't Kanye on some ballots for this very reason as well?

At least in my state, the attempt to get Kanye on the ballot was funded and driven by the Republican party.  The GOP was behind the effort to get signatures and rushed the application process through, then used its lawyers to try to get him accepted.  It was unsuccessful, but they made more or less no secret of the fact that it was a Republican strategy in this election.

This stuff in Florida is clever, and unsurprising.  If we're to discuss election integrity in our country, the top of the list for me is the Republican strategy over the past 10-20 years to suppress the opposition vote.  In my state, its not just at election time - they are filing lawsuits and submitting legislation year round to limit voting in areas they know are more likely to support Democrat candidates.  Its not hard to find these areas - they are our large cities, which is the case in most every swing state.  We had lawsuits and legislation involving efforts to purge voter registrations, limit mail voting, early voting and in-person voting in a number of different ways on an ongoing basis over the past several years.  Our state is hopelessly, ridiculously gerrymandered and our court is packed.

In Georgia, there is a strong sentiment that state has been a blue state for a long time, but for the state's extensive and successful voter suppression campaigns going back over 10 years.  We know that, in 2000, Katherine Harris successfully purged over 10,000 legal voters from Florida's registered voter list in an election that George Bush won by less than 1,000 votes.  This is has been a hugely successful political strategy for the Republican party and undoubtedly was a huge factor in this presidential election and the last, not to mention the hundreds of house, senate and state elections in swing states around the country.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

At least in my state, the attempt to get Kanye on the ballot was funded and driven by the Republican party.  The GOP was behind the effort to get signatures and rushed the application process through, then used its lawyers to try to get him accepted.  It was unsuccessful, but they made more or less no secret of the fact that it was a Republican strategy in this election.

This stuff in Florida is clever, and unsurprising.  If we're to discuss election integrity in our country, the top of the list for me is the Republican strategy over the past 10-20 years to suppress the opposition vote.  In my state, its not just at election time - they are filing lawsuits and submitting legislation year round to limit voting in areas they know are more likely to support Democrat candidates.  Its not hard to find these areas - they are our large cities, which is the case in most every swing state.  We had lawsuits and legislation involving efforts to purge voter registrations, limit mail voting, early voting and in-person voting in a number of different ways on an ongoing basis over the past several years.  Our state is hopelessly, ridiculously gerrymandered and our court is packed.

In Georgia, there is a strong sentiment that state has been a blue state for a long time, but for the state's extensive and successful voter suppression campaigns going back over 10 years.  We know that, in 2000, Katherine Harris successfully purged over 10,000 legal voters from Florida's registered voter list in an election that George Bush won by less than 1,000 votes.  This is has been a hugely successful political strategy for the Republican party and undoubtedly was a huge factor in this presidential election and the last, not to mention the hundreds of house, senate and state elections in swing states around the country.

 

 

 

Stacey Abrams is an American hero.

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52 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Sure...I am enjoying the show.  He has the right to fight it.  The bold is completely unnecessary though.  It's almost like you're trying to convince yourself when you write stuff like this.  So far, the allegations here are more toothless than the garden variety we hear about every other election cycle that pass as a non-event.  He's free to "fight" all he wants, but right now, he's in the corner taking swings at his own shadow :shrug: 

You have no freaking idea what could be out there as far as fraud, particularly in this election. You THINK you know.

Do what your boy Biden is doing & respect the process. I see these offerings to shake hands after the last 4 years (LOL), but you guys aren't putting it into practice.

If you're right, nothing will come of it. It's really as simple as that.

 

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24 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

At least in my state, the attempt to get Kanye on the ballot was funded and driven by the Republican party.  The GOP was behind the effort to get signatures and rushed the application process through, then used its lawyers to try to get him accepted.  It was unsuccessful, but they made more or less no secret of the fact that it was a Republican strategy in this election.

This stuff in Florida is clever, and unsurprising.  If we're to discuss election integrity in our country, the top of the list for me is the Republican strategy over the past 10-20 years to suppress the opposition vote.  In my state, its not just at election time - they are filing lawsuits and submitting legislation year round to limit voting in areas they know are more likely to support Democrat candidates.  Its not hard to find these areas - they are our large cities, which is the case in most every swing state.  We had lawsuits and legislation involving efforts to purge voter registrations, limit mail voting, early voting and in-person voting in a number of different ways on an ongoing basis over the past several years.  Our state is hopelessly, ridiculously gerrymandered and our court is packed.

In Georgia, there is a strong sentiment that state has been a blue state for a long time, but for the state's extensive and successful voter suppression campaigns going back over 10 years.  We know that, in 2000, Katherine Harris successfully purged over 10,000 legal voters from Florida's registered voter list in an election that George Bush won by less than 1,000 votes.  This is has been a hugely successful political strategy for the Republican party and undoubtedly was a huge factor in this presidential election and the last, not to mention the hundreds of house, senate and state elections in swing states around the country.

 

 

 

Cheaters.

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Didn’t see this posted yet, but Team Trump  actually got a court decision to go their way in PA. LINK

Basically, the SOS changed the date to provide proof of identification for certain ballots on her own. The court ruled that some ballots cannot be counted. Not sure how many ballots that effects. I think that will only involve some cured or provisional ballots. 

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