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How Much Voter Fraud Happened In 2020?


Joe Bryant

How much voter fraud do you think happened in 2020?  

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20 minutes ago, Mystery Achiever said:

Thanks. I'm just looking at Twitter feeds and this probably isn't enough info, but this was reported:
 

Judge Brann: What standard of review should I apply in this case and why?
Giuliani says the "normal one." Are you arguing that strict scrutiny should apply? Giuliani says normal scrutiny should apply.
Giuliani: “Maybe I don't understand what you mean by strict scrutiny”
Judge asks question about applying a rational basis standard.
Giuliani: "How is it rational for one state to have two different standards" for curing ballots

I see Rudy is getting destroyed on lawyertwitter for this exchange, for good reason.  This is pretty basic stuff - knowing the proper standard you are asking the judge to apply. I missed this part.

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14 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

I see Rudy is getting destroyed on lawyertwitter for this exchange, for good reason.  This is pretty basic stuff - knowing the proper standard you are asking the judge to apply. I missed this part.

He really didn't seem prepared. Or cognizant of what was in the complaint.
I liked this tl;dr from Brad Heath:
- No decision today.
- Rudy Giuliani, after talking extensively about massive voter fraud, said this isn't a fraud case.
- Giuliani argued lots of stuff that's not in the case.
- Judge asked very skeptical questions.

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2 hours ago, yak651 said:

I always thought Trump kept Rudy around because he stroked his ego and worked for free.  Now I see Rudy want's $20k a day for his work??  Surely this is a last grasp of grifting from this administration???  No one would really pay crazy Rudy that, would they??

Sending a bill to trump, and having trump pay a bill are two very different things. Just ask Deutsche Bank among many, many others.

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I somehow missed this yesterday what is this? Is it a big deal?

 

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

·

Nov 16

Big victory moments ago in the State of Nevada. The all Democrat County Commissioner race, on same ballot as President, just thrown out because of large scale voter discrepancy. Clark County officials do not have confidence in their own election security. Major impact!

Quote Tweet

Adam Paul Laxalt

@AdamLaxalt

· Nov 16

The Clark County Commission just threw out an election that represents almost 1/6 of the total votes cast in Clark County because there were too many “discrepancies” to be sure that that the results in that election can be certain. 153K votes in this election. twitter.com/meganmesserly/…

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2 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

I somehow missed this yesterday what is this? Is it a big deal?

 

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

·

Nov 16

Big victory moments ago in the State of Nevada. The all Democrat County Commissioner race, on same ballot as President, just thrown out because of large scale voter discrepancy. Clark County officials do not have confidence in their own election security. Major impact!

Quote Tweet

Adam Paul Laxalt

@AdamLaxalt

· Nov 16

The Clark County Commission just threw out an election that represents almost 1/6 of the total votes cast in Clark County because there were too many “discrepancies” to be sure that that the results in that election can be certain. 153K votes in this election. twitter.com/meganmesserly/…

Seems like it, do we have any info?

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Ok that Clark County thing seems a non story ultimately

heres the thread on it

There are between 150 and 900 votes flagged as discrepancies  for that Clark County Commish election. It’s the only race they are calling into question because it was decided by a mere 10 votes.

Edited by Ilov80s
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1 minute ago, Mystery Achiever said:

I read about this. From memory -don't quote me - I think the issue is that the commissioner race was very, very, very close. So the disposition of some disputed ballots could swing that particular race, while it would not affect any other race, so it is the only race not being certified.

Won by 10 votes I believe. 

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1 minute ago, Mystery Achiever said:

I read about this. From memory -don't quote me - I think the issue is that the commissioner race was very, very, very close. So the disposition of some disputed ballots could swing that particular race, while it would not affect any other race, so it is the only race not being certified.

The winner only won by 10 votes. 

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

Ok that Clark County thing seems a non story ultimately

heres the thread on it

There are between 150 and 900 votes flagged as discrepancies  for that Clark County Commish election. It’s the only race they are calling into question because it was decided by a mere 10 votes.

Smoke

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1 hour ago, CletiusMaximus said:

The judge is now addressing the issue of the story where some associate lawyer from Kirkland Ellis (Donovan's firm) called one of Trump's lawyers and ripped her for representing the Trump campaign.  The guy who made the call does not work on the case. The voicemail was submitted to the judge and he's pissed about it.  Not sanctionable conduct, but said the firm "should have a talk with him."  Added, "does he still work at Kirkland?"  He's probably already fired.

The lawyer who got the abuse - Kerns - says she is getting hundreds of abusive calls but had to take this one seriously because it came from opposing counsel's firm.  She is extremely upset.

 

 

Idiot. Whoever did that needs to lose their license. No room for that at all.

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6 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:
1 hour ago, CletiusMaximus said:

The judge is now addressing the issue of the story where some associate lawyer from Kirkland Ellis (Donovan's firm) called one of Trump's lawyers and ripped her for representing the Trump campaign.  The guy who made the call does not work on the case. The voicemail was submitted to the judge and he's pissed about it.  Not sanctionable conduct, but said the firm "should have a talk with him."  Added, "does he still work at Kirkland?"  He's probably already fired.

The lawyer who got the abuse - Kerns - says she is getting hundreds of abusive calls but had to take this one seriously because it came from opposing counsel's firm.  She is extremely upset.

 

 

Idiot. Whoever did that needs to lose their license. No room for that at all.

Anyone have the names of the Kirkland lawyers involved here?

Thanks for the updates, Cletius.

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1 minute ago, 2Squirrels1Nut said:

There's a Costco joke in there somewhere but I'm horribly sober. 

Yeah and my experience with Kirkland (products) has been nothing but stellar. If they’re representing Trump, one of two things comes to mind. We’re all effed cause those Kirkland lawyers, while not name brand, are amazing. Or two, I’m massively disappointed and need to reevaluate all my Kirkland needs.  

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37 minutes ago, krista4 said:

Anyone have the names of the Kirkland lawyers involved here?

Thanks for the updates, Cletius.

The lawyer representing PA was Dan Donovan from the DC office.  He did a great job today. The associate who left this unfortunate voicemail is probably well-known by your former colleagues, but is not publicly known.  The offended lawyer made a point to say she is not releasing any information publicly because she does not want what happened to her to happen to him.  She submitted the voicemail to the court only. 

 

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31 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Yeah and my experience with Kirkland (products) has been nothing but stellar. If they’re representing Trump, one of two things comes to mind. We’re all effed cause those Kirkland lawyers, while not name brand, are amazing. Or two, I’m massively disappointed and need to reevaluate all my Kirkland needs.  

They don't represent Trump.  He has had some very good, high profile firms representing him recently, but they seem to be mostly giving way to the smaller solo guys and small firms.  My guess is that firm management is saying, we don't need this headache.  Whereas the smaller, solo guys can double or triple their hourly rate and make it worth their while.  There was a guy in court today for Trump who was a clown - he cited as part of his argument a case from 30 years ago in which he - the lawyer personally - was the plaintiff.  While he was arguing, the opposing lawyer for PA looked up the case and then stated to the Court that this guy totally misrepresented the case in his argument.  It was a bizarre exchange.

 

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2 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

They don't represent Trump.  He has had some very good, high profile firms representing him recently, but they seem to be mostly giving way to the smaller solo guys and small firms.  My guess is that firm management is saying, we don't need this headache.  Whereas the smaller, solo guys can double or triple their hourly rate and make it worth their while.  There was a guy in court today for Trump who was a clown - he cited as part of his argument a case from 30 years ago in which he - the lawyer personally - was the plaintiff.  While he was arguing, the opposing lawyer for PA looked up the case and then stated to the Court that this guy totally misrepresented the case in his argument.  It was a bizarre exchange.

 

Thanks brother, but I was really just trying to make a joke (apparently not a good one) about Costco Kirkland products.  

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9 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

The lawyer representing PA was Dan Donovan from the DC office.  He did a great job today. The associate who left this unfortunate voicemail is probably well-known by your former colleagues, but is not publicly known.  The offended lawyer made a point to say she is not releasing any information publicly because she does not want what happened to her to happen to him.  She submitted the voicemail to the court only. 

 

Thanks.  I don't know Dan Donovan but am glad to hear he represented the firm well.  I still have lots of friends there and hate the other associations they've had recently (Barr, Acosta).  

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On 11/12/2020 at 4:26 PM, Milkman said:

Oh yeah I agree but can they stop him if gets these reports sent out by the CIA and FBI. 

 

Is Chris Krebs next? Head of US cybersecurity. 

And I guess I was right. Does this worry anybody else?

 

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1328852352787484677?s=20

Edited by Milkman
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1 hour ago, Mystery Achiever said:

I read about this. From memory -don't quote me - I think the issue is that the [Clark County, Nevada] commissioner race was very, very, very close. So the disposition of some disputed ballots could swing that particular race, while it would not affect any other race, so it is the only race not being certified.

Correct.

No, a revote in one local Nevada race is not a victory for President Trump. (New York Times, 11/17/2020)

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1 hour ago, dkp993 said:

What’s strange it that was from yesterday.  If it is a big deal you’d think something or someone here would have vetted it out.  

I had to look around more than I thought to find one solid media source about it -- but the New York Times covered it.

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Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

Wow! Michigan just refused to certify the election results! Having courage is a beautiful thing. The USA stands proud!

 

Few minutes later.

 

Michigan's largest county certifies election results after Republicans earlier blocked certification

 

(CNN)A bipartisan panel in Michigan's largest county unanimously certified its presidential results on Tuesday night, a stunning reversal hours after Republicans had temporarily blocked certification based on dubious claims of voting irregularities in Detroit.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/17/politics/michigan-detroit-election-results/index.html

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10 minutes ago, Mile High said:

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

Wow! Michigan just refused to certify the election results! Having courage is a beautiful thing. The USA stands proud!

 

Few minutes later.

 

Michigan's largest county certifies election results after Republicans earlier blocked certification

 

(CNN)A bipartisan panel in Michigan's largest county unanimously certified its presidential results on Tuesday night, a stunning reversal hours after Republicans had temporarily blocked certification based on dubious claims of voting irregularities in Detroit.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/17/politics/michigan-detroit-election-results/index.html

The weird hope is that the Republican legislature would then also refuse to certify the results, would throw out the entire election, and simply appoint their own electors. That would not only be total insanity and against the Michigan constitution, but would almost certainly result in Republicans getting voted out of every state office there for about forever.

But the Republican Senate Majority Leader had already said that Biden had clearly won the majority vote and that he would be getting the electors. So this was never more than a fever dream for Trump and his supporters.

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1 hour ago, Milkman said:

And I guess I was right. Does this worry anybody else?

 

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1328852352787484677?s=20

Yes. Our President is seeming more and more delusional and unhinged. His behavior is becoming more and more erratic and unpredictable. That the full Republican leadership hasn’t stepped in to shut this down and told him to shut his mouth and sit silently for the next 2 months is beyond shameful and may legitimately be putting our country at risk. Firing anyone that even remotely will not go along with these fantasies is banana republic type stuff.

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56 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

Yes. Our President is seeming more and more delusional and unhinged. His behavior is becoming more and more erratic and unpredictable. That the full Republican leadership hasn’t stepped in to shut this down and told him to shut his mouth and sit silently for the next 2 months is beyond shameful and may legitimately be putting our country at risk. Firing anyone that even remotely will not go along with these fantasies is banana republic type stuff.

 

5 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Yes.  Many of the things happening are not normal.  Not even remotely.  This is how democracies collapse.

So now he appoints a Trump supporter and there will be a report that a foreign government was caught (likely China) meddling in our election by our cybersecurity. 

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3 minutes ago, Milkman said:

 

So now he appoints a Trump supporter and there will be a report that a foreign government was caught (likely China) meddling in our election by our cybersecurity. 

Seriously.  This guy is tearing down democracy piece by piece. And people either can’t see it or don’t care. I’ve seen this movie before, and it doesn’t have a Hollywood ending.

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4 minutes ago, Milkman said:

 

So now he appoints a Trump supporter and there will be a report that a foreign government was caught (likely China) meddling in our election by our cybersecurity. 

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

·

4h

The only thing secure about our 2020 Election was that it was virtually impenetrable by foreign powers. On that, the Trump Administration takes great credit. Unfortunately, the Radical Left Democrats, Dominion, and others, were perhaps more successful!

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2 minutes ago, Mile High said:

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

·

4h

The only thing secure about our 2020 Election was that it was virtually impenetrable by foreign powers. On that, the Trump Administration takes great credit. Unfortunately, the Radical Left Democrats, Dominion, and others, were perhaps more successful!

My absolute favorite thing about 1/21 is the take credit for everything and blame for absolutely nothing schtick will be over with (well at least not leading our country).  

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7 hours ago, Mile High said:

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

·

4h

The only thing secure about our 2020 Election was that it was virtually impenetrable by foreign powers. On that, the Trump Administration takes great credit. Unfortunately, the Radical Left Democrats, Dominion, and others, were perhaps more successful!

Not hard to say he was mistaken. He'll just blame the deep state for hiding it from him but he found it after he got good honest people in some key positions of power. 

Edited by Milkman
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5 hours ago, GroveDiesel said:

Yes. Our President is seeming more and more delusional and unhinged. His behavior is becoming more and more erratic and unpredictable. That the full Republican leadership hasn’t stepped in to shut this down and told him to shut his mouth and sit silently for the next 2 months is beyond shameful and may legitimately be putting our country at risk. Firing anyone that even remotely will not go along with these fantasies is banana republic type stuff.

I have to disagree. This is who he's always been, at least for the last couple of decades. He just hasn't had to wear an L in a while, but this is what he's always done in those circumstances. There's nothing surprising or unpredictable about how he's handled this (or pretty much anything else in his tenure).

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Just heard GA wasn't verifying sigs in their recount. That possibly can't be true, can it? No verifying sigs in a hand audit? You have to be kidding me. :)

Also, I didn't realize there wasn't bi-partisan verification of mail-in ballots during the regular election. It's up to one person in a county election office? LOL. Mail-in is TOTALLY unreliable then.

In the end, we're going to need to have to go in & verify sigs in GA (ALL of them). This will be one of the ways we can vette this election.

If it's on the up & up, we'll see it. If not, we'll see that. There's really no other option.

Edited by Football Jones
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2 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

Just heard GA wasn't verifying sigs in their recount. That possibly can't be true, can it? No verifying sigs in a hand audit?

It was not possible for the Georgia recount to verify signatures. The Republican legislature wrote a law which requires the signed envelope to be permanently separated from the ballot after the initial verification, thus preventing the signature from being re-verified during a recount.

Don't like it? Ask the Republican legislature to re-write the law.....before the election.

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I only recently got into politics so I was unaware of all the concerns surrounding mail-in balloting.

I just assumed there was a bi-partisan effort to verify sigs as they come in (duh).

Yeah, that's going to have to change. Just simply have 1 person from each party verifying sigs. Not hard at all.

It's not like it's rocket science.

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1 minute ago, Joe Summer said:

It was not possible for the Georgia recount to verify signatures. The Republican legislature wrote a law which requires the signed envelope to be permanently separated from the ballot after the initial verification, thus preventing the signature from being re-verified during a recount.

Don't like it? Ask the Republican legislature to re-write the law.....before the election.

That's not really going to fly with millions of people. Now, is it? ;)

We gonna have to audit ALL the sigs. That's all there is to it.

They can allow it if they want transparency. SIMPLE.

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4 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

I just assumed there was a bi-partisan effort to verify sigs as they come in (duh).

Yeah, that's going to have to change. Just simply have 1 person from each party verifying sigs. Not hard at all.

To what end? The point of the secrecy envelope is secrecy. The verifier doesn't know who the person voted for

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4 minutes ago, Football Jones said:
7 minutes ago, Joe Summer said:

It was not possible for the Georgia recount to verify signatures. The Republican legislature wrote a law which requires the signed envelope to be permanently separated from the ballot after the initial verification, thus preventing the signature from being re-verified during a recount.

Don't like it? Ask the Republican legislature to re-write the law.....before the election.

That's not really going to fly with millions of people. Now, is it? ;)

We gonna have to audit ALL the sigs. That's all there is to it.

LOL

Millions of people are fine with this type of process.

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