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How Much Voter Fraud Happened In 2020?


Joe Bryant

How much voter fraud do you think happened in 2020?  

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Here is the judge's order following yesterday's hearing in Williamsport with filing dates. 
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.pamd.127057/gov.uscourts.pamd.127057.162.0_1_1.pdf


@CletiusMaximus, they have to file their motion for an amended complaint by 5pm today, (same deadline for their opposition brief on motion to dismiss) but I don't see anything further on it. Would that require a separate hearing to be set later or would it just postpone the resolution of this motion to dismiss? 

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12 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:
1 hour ago, Doug B said:

No. It cannot be open-ended. These types of things come to an end, and they come to an end fairly quickly, within weeks. There's no repeated recount requests, asking for audits, filing more lawsuits upon more lawsuits. At a point, the clapper comes down and the results lock. There are deadlines in play, and they don't get pushed back for look-see 'investigations'.

That's what happened in FL in 2000, right?  SCOTUS said, OK, we're through.  Vote count stands as it is now.  Bush wins FL, therefore Bush wins the office.

One potential difference with Florida in 2000 is that their Secretary Of State had already certified the original vote and basically said that she wouldn't revise the certification without a court order.

One of the things that Trump is trying to do is to convince multiple states to *not* certify results, thereby preventing a replay of 2000. That would then leave the door open for state legislatures to submit their own pro-Trump electors. Then it would be up to Congress to decide if those pro-Trump electors should be accepted or not.

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12 minutes ago, Mystery Achiever said:

Here is the judge's order following yesterday's hearing in Williamsport with filing dates. 
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.pamd.127057/gov.uscourts.pamd.127057.162.0_1_1.pdf


@CletiusMaximus, they have to file their motion for an amended complaint by 5pm today, (same deadline for their opposition brief on motion to dismiss) but I don't see anything further on it. Would that require a separate hearing to be set later or would it just postpone the resolution of this motion to dismiss? 

The plaintiffs don't have an automatic right to file a 2nd amended complaint but have to seek leave of the Court to do so (something Rudy did not realize yesterday).  Rudy announced they would be doing so to add back in a due process claim which they had previously dropped (he said it was a mistake).  The judge and lawyers all acknowledged that the defendants oppose that, but that he would not set a deadline for their response at this time.  I think they expect things to shake out substantially in the meantime. One of the issues is that the main argument i their due process claim was rejected by the PA Supreme Court yesterday.

 

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28 minutes ago, Mile High said:

Marc E. Elias

@marceelias

·

39m

BREAKING: Pennsylvania Court REJECTS a second lawsuit appealing Allegheny County Board of Elections’ decision to count mail-in ballots. Trump and his allies are now 1-27 in court post-election.

https://mobile.twitter.com/marceelias

After winning 232 of 538 electoral votes, it must be really tough to lose almost every single post-election contest.

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27 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

So when, where, and how is Team Trump going to file suit about the Dominion software, which has been billed as potentially having criminal investigations and charges (at least if people believe the hype).

I since found this article, which outlines that Rudy has two vehicles for the SCOTUS. Of course, it’s vague and ambiguous and has no details in the article. Can they file whatever they want with the Supreme Court? Or do they have to start at a lower level court and have it work through the courts and then ask for SCOTUS review?

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Despite the date, that article is old news. The 1st time voter i.d. thing is the one battle they won.
And, I wouldn't get hung up on the wording re:going to Supreme Court. That is more puff piece than news article.
The Supreme Court can only hear "original jurisdiction" cases directly.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1251

Edited by Mystery Achiever
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8 minutes ago, 2Squirrels1Nut said:

Remember "prove Obama wasn't born in Kenya"?. Never thought I would miss those days. 

Can't wait for prove Biden isn't a sasquatch. That's ridiculous? We need to let it play out. 

This has even fewer accurate facts than the Birther topic.  Every example that gets raised is torn down by facts.

Edited by Alex P Keaton
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25 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

I since found this article, which outlines that Rudy has two vehicles for the SCOTUS. Of course, it’s vague and ambiguous and has no details in the article. Can they file whatever they want with the Supreme Court?

Absolutely not.

Quote

Or do they have to start at a lower level court and have it work through the courts and then ask for SCOTUS review?

Correct. 

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5 minutes ago, Doug B said:
32 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

I since found this article, which outlines that Rudy has two vehicles for the SCOTUS. Of course, it’s vague and ambiguous and has no details in the article. Can they file whatever they want with the Supreme Court?

Absolutely not.

Quote

Or do they have to start at a lower level court and have it work through the courts and then ask for SCOTUS review?

Correct. 

One thing to note - they could appeal a state Supreme Court ruling directly to the US Supreme Court; meaning, they don't have to go through the federal court appeals process on a ruling by the highest court in a state.  This assumes there is an issue of federal law involved in the state court's ruling. There have been a few of those rulings this past week or two, including one in PA yesterday.  Of course, the SCOTUS has to accept the case - they don't get an appeal just for the asking.

 

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4 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

One thing to note - they could appeal a state Supreme Court ruling directly to the US Supreme Court; meaning, they don't have to go through the federal court appeals process on a ruling by the highest court in a state.  This assumes there is an issue of federal law involved in the state court's ruling. There have been a few of those rulings this past week or two, including one in PA yesterday.  Of course, the SCOTUS has to accept the case - they don't get an appeal just for the asking.

 

On some level, the Trump campaign being denied cert by the 3 judges they are so proud of appointing would be a perfect ending.

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9 minutes ago, Tom Hagen said:

On some level, the Trump campaign being denied cert by the 3 judges they are so proud of appointing would be a perfect ending.

I'm confident that even his three appointees -- based on what we know of the various cases right now -- would dutifully rule against him in any 2020 election case that would make it to the Supreme Court.

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8 minutes ago, Bamboo Bill said:

Yep. I’ve said it before. There is no doubt in my mind that Trump’s performance here is going to get people killed.

Edited by Uwe Blab
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Apparently this is the smoking gun the GOP is pinning their hopes on. Sydney Powell says she has a whistleblower that attests the Dominion system can be easily reprogrammed to switch votes and that’s what happened overnight for Biden to make his massive comeback in several states. She claims Trump will flip states and they can prove it. LINK

What I don’t get is, their court filings to date have been severely lacking. If this has legs, why are they bothering with all these other lawsuits that are dead as soon as they file them? All I see for general comments about her is she is well respected and she wouldn’t be shooting her mouth off if there was nothing to the case. 

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23 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Apparently this is the smoking gun the GOP is pinning their hopes on. Sydney Powell says she has a whistleblower that attests the Dominion system can be easily reprogrammed to switch votes and that’s what happened overnight for Biden to make his massive comeback in several states. She claims Trump will flip states and they can prove it. LINK

What I don’t get is, their court filings to date have been severely lacking. If this has legs, why are they bothering with all these other lawsuits that are dead as soon as they file them? All I see for general comments about her is she is well respected and she wouldn’t be shooting her mouth off if there was nothing to the case. 

I'm going to go out on a limb, I mean really put myself out there, and say her witness is lying and she knows it. 

Edited by 2Squirrels1Nut
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Even assuming this is 100% true, the whistleblower did not witness anything to do with the US election.
"....he was present for the creation of the system for this specific purpose of falsifying election results for Hugo Chavez and then Maduro... "

And, even if the system has the capacity to be reprogrammed, you'd still need evidence that it was. And if they had a witness to that, what would they need with this guy?

Hope she has better affidavits than the Trump lawyer in AZ whose only basis that they were real was that people filing had to use Captcha.

Edited by Mystery Achiever
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Venezuela rigged election.

Typical dictator voter suppression, no mention of voting machine hacking. 

ETA

From the BBC

Quote

Why is the opposition crying foul?

The main opposition coalition had warned that the election would not be free and fair.

It said the poll had been brought forward from December 2018 to take advantage of disarray within opposition ranks and that some of the most promising candidates had been banned from standing or jailed, while many others had fled the country.

That is why it called for a boycott. Mr Falcón however broke ranks, arguing Venezuelans should be given a chance to vote Mr Maduro out of office.

But following the vote, he too alleged it had been rigged in Mr Maduro's favour, by abuse of the scanning of state-issued benefits cards used for accessing food. He has called for a rerun.

Quote

Under the Venezuelan constitution, the CNE is the official independent body responsible for overseeing and guaranteeing the transparency of all elections.It is made up of five members. The opposition alleges that four of the five are government stooges and therefore does not trust the body to be independent.

Luis Emilio Rondón, the one CNE member which has been critical of the government, said he did not recognise the results because "Venezuelans' freedom to vote" had not been respected.

It's almost like she doesn't realize how easy her lies can be fact checked. 

Edited by 2Squirrels1Nut
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23 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Apparently this is the smoking gun the GOP is pinning their hopes on. Sydney Powell says she has a whistleblower that attests the Dominion system can be easily reprogrammed to switch votes and that’s what happened overnight for Biden to make his massive comeback in several states. She claims Trump will flip states and they can prove it. LINK

What I don’t get is, their court filings to date have been severely lacking. If this has legs, why are they bothering with all these other lawsuits that are dead as soon as they file them? All I see for general comments about her is she is well respected and she wouldn’t be shooting her mouth off if there was nothing to the case. 

Yes, the GOP is pinning their hopes on Dominion.  But as of yet, I've seen zero legitimate evidence that prove it was used to switch votes.  Obviously that would be a huge story.

What I see most often is that people say that Sydney Powell is a legitimate, no-nonsense lawyer that wouldn't be saying this if she didn't have something.

IMO that's the only legitimate shot that Trump's side has, if it was somehow proven that this software actually did this.  It's a strange strategy for them to go down if they don't have the goods, unless of course they are only trying to win a battle of public opinion and not win any court cases.  And as of yet, I've seen nothing to indicate that Dominion evidence is playing a part in their legal strategy.

The more, shall we say, hardcore right-wingers, anticipate that Trump and company will use the Dominion info to arrest Biden and take draconian measures outside the legal system.  IMO, if they had a clear bombshell, as they claim to, the only thing they can do is to compile it and release it all at once.  But it would have to actually be proof, not just "it could have happened"

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8 minutes ago, shader said:

Yes, the GOP is pinning their hopes on Dominion.  But as of yet, I've seen zero legitimate evidence that prove it was used to switch votes.  Obviously that would be a huge story.

What I see most often is that people say that Sydney Powell is a legitimate, no-nonsense lawyer that wouldn't be saying this if she didn't have something.

IMO that's the only legitimate shot that Trump's side has, if it was somehow proven that this software actually did this.  It's a strange strategy for them to go down if they don't have the goods, unless of course they are only trying to win a battle of public opinion and not win any court cases.  And as of yet, I've seen nothing to indicate that Dominion evidence is playing a part in their legal strategy.

The more, shall we say, hardcore right-wingers, anticipate that Trump and company will use the Dominion info to arrest Biden and take draconian measures outside the legal system.  IMO, if they had a clear bombshell, as they claim to, the only thing they can do is to compile it and release it all at once.  But it would have to actually be proof, not just "it could have happened"

The other problem this accusation poses for them is it calls In the use of dominion in other states where it could just as easily been used in Trumps favor.  

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43 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Apparently this is the smoking gun the GOP is pinning their hopes on. Sydney Powell says she has a whistleblower that attests the Dominion system can be easily reprogrammed to switch votes and that’s what happened overnight for Biden to make his massive comeback in several states. She claims Trump will flip states and they can prove it. LINK

What I don’t get is, their court filings to date have been severely lacking. If this has legs, why are they bothering with all these other lawsuits that are dead as soon as they file them? All I see for general comments about her is she is well respected and she wouldn’t be shooting her mouth off if there was nothing to the case. 

This looks exactly like that bunk that Dr Shiva was pushing earlier.

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30 minutes ago, shader said:

Yes, the GOP is pinning their hopes on Dominion.  But as of yet, I've seen zero legitimate evidence that prove it was used to switch votes.  Obviously that would be a huge story.

What I see most often is that people say that Sydney Powell is a legitimate, no-nonsense lawyer that wouldn't be saying this if she didn't have something.

IMO that's the only legitimate shot that Trump's side has, if it was somehow proven that this software actually did this.  It's a strange strategy for them to go down if they don't have the goods, unless of course they are only trying to win a battle of public opinion and not win any court cases.  And as of yet, I've seen nothing to indicate that Dominion evidence is playing a part in their legal strategy.

The more, shall we say, hardcore right-wingers, anticipate that Trump and company will use the Dominion info to arrest Biden and take draconian measures outside the legal system.  IMO, if they had a clear bombshell, as they claim to, the only thing they can do is to compile it and release it all at once.  But it would have to actually be proof, not just "it could have happened"

The Georgia hand recount will either give credence to Dominion or completely disprove it.

Most likely the latter. 

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 :lol:    @Anarchy99

 And you've given me a chance to plug the Fraud Street Run from Four Seasons Total Landscaping to the Four Seasons Hotel Thanksgiving Weekend.
It is now virtual so you can run and donate from anywhere. :)    

http://www.junkmilesshow.com/fraud-street-run/

Edited by Mystery Achiever
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9 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:
11 minutes ago, Mystery Achiever said:

People used to feel that way about America's Mayor, Rudy Giuliani, too.

To the best of my knowledge, Powell has never held a press conference at a landscaping company sandwiched between a sex shop and a crematorium. 

True, but she did once appear in a "documentary" film which claimed that Hillary Clinton and her allies were secretly plotting to steal the election from the rightful winner, Donald Trump.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Plot_Against_the_President

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4 minutes ago, Chaz McNulty said:

Georgia used Dominion.  How is the hand count going?  If the handcount backs up the machine, then they really have nothing.

They actually found 5900 uncounted ballots, which will result in a net gain of around 1000 votes for Trump.

The ballots have nothing to do with Dominion, though. Election workers forgot to process them.

The recount concludes at midnight tonight and then the votes will (hopefully) be certified on Friday.

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29 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

To the best of my knowledge, Powell has never held a press conference at a landscaping company sandwiched between a sex shop and a crematorium. 

No, she reposts QAnon garbage, has harped on the idea that the CIA and Deep State are out to get Trump, and has done a bang up job of taking Michael Flynn from a guilty plea with no jail time to being sentenced to 6 months in prison to more court proceedings.

So pretty much the opposite of no non-sense.

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1 hour ago, Anarchy99 said:

Apparently this is the smoking gun the GOP is pinning their hopes on. Sydney Powell says she has a whistleblower that attests the Dominion system can be easily reprogrammed to switch votes and that’s what happened overnight for Biden to make his massive comeback in several states. She claims Trump will flip states and they can prove it. LINK

What I don’t get is, their court filings to date have been severely lacking. If this has legs, why are they bothering with all these other lawsuits that are dead as soon as they file them? All I see for general comments about her is she is well respected and she wouldn’t be shooting her mouth off if there was nothing to the case. 

Because they won’t likely ever bring this issue to court.  Its for the media and to keep the base on the hook and continue to send money.

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3 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

No, she reposts QAnon garbage, has harped on the idea that the CIA and Deep State are out to get Trump, and has done a bang up job of taking Michael Flynn from a guilty plea with no jail time to being sentenced to 6 months in prison to more court proceedings.

So pretty much the opposite of no non-sense.

Trump fires anyone, even those he appointed, that won't pledge loyalty to him over the country, and/or break the law for him. 

The Deep State is calling from inside the (white) house! 

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1 hour ago, shader said:

... It's a strange strategy for them to go down if they don't have the goods, unless of course they are only trying to win a battle of public opinion and not win any court cases...

 

The broad assumption is Trump is only playing for 2020. This could be a long term move for 2024. If he can sell the narrative that he was systematically cheated, he could try to guarantee the RNC ticket through sheer will/popularity.

Either way, long term, this hurts the DNC. It double downs on Voter ID issues, which benefits the GOP.

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