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How Much Voter Fraud Happened In 2020?


Joe Bryant

How much voter fraud do you think happened in 2020?  

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15 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

Then we don't have a U.S.A. anymore. If the Republicans can't take the L, maybe it's time. :shrug:

We shall see how it goes, but laws and rules and pieces of paper are only useful when followed. If either party decides to ignore them or challenge the integrity of the process, none of that matters. Both sides represent such huge populations that the country could very easily be divided. 

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Having election after election and peaceful transfer of power after peaceful transfer of power was the anomaly. History shows something like that is unlikely to last forever. This may just be another contentious blip on the radar and we may move on back to our normalcy, but we are in uncharted territory and nothing is certain. 

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55 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

The official RNC/GOP Twitter account RT’d Trumps lawyer saying he won in a landslide and they will reclaim the US. I guess that’s an official stance now? Where do we even go from here?

Baby steps closer and closer towards a coup. Trump is pushing hard. 

 

It's almost like it's the presidency or prison and Trump knows it. He's acting like a cornered dog. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Baby steps closer and closer towards a coup. Trump is pushing hard. 

 

It's almost like it's the presidency or prison and Trump knows it. He's acting like a cornered dog. 

 

I don't see how he goes to prison. Innocent or guilty, he's too powerful IMO to ever end up in prison. From one perspective, Biden is the one engaging in the coup. Based on my conversations with some people who aren't super politically informed, it seems to be working. They are like "Sure Biden won but what if their was fraud and cheating? Then it shouldn't count." They don't really follow close enough to know if there was or wasn't but the idea has been implanted successfully. It's like Inception. Once an idea is out there, it's almost impossible to stop. 

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43 minutes ago, Milkman said:
1 hour ago, Gr00vus said:

Georgia hand recount is done. You'll never believe what they found....

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Biden still won, negligible change in the vote count.

 

Hand count is suspicious. Was there any Biden supporters counting it at all? If so.........RECOUNT THE RECOUNT!

Hell let Trump recount it himself. Only way to know for sure........

:goodposting: Everybody that hand counted could have been lying & cheating.  We need to investigate them. Let it play out.


ETA Sorry, it's just so damn ridiculous. I have children and a lot of people I love have children. I want a better world for them.  This isn't helping. Sick of it.

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3 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I don't see how he goes to prison. Innocent or guilty, he's too powerful IMO to ever end up in prison. From one perspective, Biden is the one engaging in the coup. Based on my conversations with some people who aren't super politically informed, it seems to be working. They are like "Sure Biden won but what if their was fraud and cheating? Then it shouldn't count." They don't really follow close enough to know if there was or wasn't but the idea has been implanted successfully. It's like Inception. Once an idea is out there, it's almost impossible to stop. 

Conspiracy against the United States perhaps?

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Just now, Milkman said:

Conspiracy against the United States perhaps?

No offense but that is laughable IMO. No way a former President who is this popular and has this much political support goes on trial for conspiracy. 

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4 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

They are like "Sure Biden won but what if their was fraud and cheating? Then it shouldn't count." They don't really follow close enough to know if there was or wasn't but the idea has been implanted successfully

Do people really want to give up on democracy that badly?

Maybe there's a silver lining and we'll get a new constitution with a parliament, multi-member districts, ranked choice voting, and hard limits on money in politics.

#pipedream

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10 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Baby steps closer and closer towards a coup. Trump is pushing hard. 

 

It's almost like it's the presidency or prison and Trump knows it. He's acting like a cornered dog. 

 

I don’t think he has enough support for a coup by a long shot.  Even Tucker just slammed them for not releasing the evidence they say exists.

It appears the current argument is that today’s press conference was the “opening statement” which indicates that the right knows nothing was released but much was promised.

If/when the claims by DT/Rudy/Powell fall flat, where will his support come from for a coup?  The only chance at that having any chance of working is if something massive is found.  Otherwise he won’t have any support and everyone will just watch his press conferences, ignore him, and watch him get escorted out in January.

 

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1 minute ago, The Z Machine said:

Do people really want to give up on democracy that badly?

Maybe there's a silver lining and we'll get a new constitution with a parliament, multi-member districts, ranked choice voting, and hard limits on money in politics.

#pipedream

I don't think they see it as giving up on Democracy (nor do they even think that deeply about politics to even consider that), they just hear that maybe Biden cheated and if you thought someone might have cheated, wouldn't you agree they shouldn't win? I think this is a small % but I've heard a couple people I work with say things like this. 

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Just now, shader said:

I don’t think he has enough support for a coup by a long shot.  Even Tucker just slammed them for not releasing the evidence they say exists.

It appears the current argument is that today’s press conference was the “opening statement” which indicates that the right knows nothing was released but much was promised.

If/when the claims by DT/Rudy/Powell fall flat, where will his support come from for a coup?  The only chance at that having any chance of working is if something massive is found.  Otherwise he won’t have any support and everyone will just watch his press conferences, ignore him, and watch him get escorted out in January.

 

That is is nice to hear from Tucker. It is more likely to be a shadow that hangs over Biden's Presidency like the Birther thing was with Obama. 

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2 minutes ago, shader said:

I don’t think he has enough support for a coup by a long shot.  Even Tucker just slammed them for not releasing the evidence they say exists.

It appears the current argument is that today’s press conference was the “opening statement” which indicates that the right knows nothing was released but much was promised.

If/when the claims by DT/Rudy/Powell fall flat, where will his support come from for a coup?  The only chance at that having any chance of working is if something massive is found.  Otherwise he won’t have any support and everyone will just watch his press conferences, ignore him, and watch him get escorted out in January.

 

I hope you're right. I only have 30 more years on this earth so I'm not to worried about myself but my kids have a lot longer to go. 

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Just now, Ilov80s said:

Sorry but I think you live in fantasy land if you believe that. 

Has he won a case yet?  Do you think these judges care about his popularity?  Do you think the FBI or others will hesitate if ordered by a judge to take him into custody?

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Just now, sho nuff said:

Has he won a case yet?  Do you think these judges care about his popularity?  Do you think the FBI or others will hesitate if ordered by a judge to take him into custody?

It's one thing to rule against him in an election challenge on ballot signatures or something. It's another to put a President in prison for the rest of his life on conspiracy or treason charges. 

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3 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

It's one thing to rule against him in an election challenge on ballot signatures or something. It's another to put a President in prison for the rest of his life on conspiracy or treason charges. 

Seems like the evidence would be clear if he was refusing to leave office and trying to run what amounts to a shadow government.  They wouldn’t really have a choice.

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2 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Seems like the evidence would be clear if he was refusing to leave office and trying to run what amounts to a shadow government.  They wouldn’t really have a choice.

That is a way out there worst case scenario level situation but we've definitely hit some uncharted territory where crazier and crazier outcomes become slightly more realistic. If something like that happens here or anywhere, it also means the government has split as well. One person can't just do that on their own. If these really outer range bad outcomes happen, you can't follow our national precedents to predict how things would be handled. 

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5 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

That is a way out there worst case scenario level situation but we've definitely hit some uncharted territory where crazier and crazier outcomes become slightly more realistic. If something like that happens here or anywhere, it also means the government has split as well. One person can't just do that on their own. If these really outer range bad outcomes happen, you can't follow our national precedents to predict how things would be handled. 

Right. But where I do have faith is in the judiciary. 

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31 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I don't see how he goes to prison. Innocent or guilty, he's too powerful IMO to ever end up in prison. From one perspective, Biden is the one engaging in the coup. Based on my conversations with some people who aren't super politically informed, it seems to be working. They are like "Sure Biden won but what if their was fraud and cheating? Then it shouldn't count." They don't really follow close enough to know if there was or wasn't but the idea has been implanted successfully. It's like Inception. Once an idea is out there, it's almost impossible to stop. 

That's pretty much what roger stone has made a career of, right? It doesn't really matter what the accusation is as long as the next four accusations are louder and in succession. Nobody ever goes..... wait, didn't tucker carlson have some damning evidence on a thumb drive? Whatever happened to that!? Just on to the next "damning evidence". Dominion! Squirrel!!

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21 minutes ago, shader said:

It appears the current argument is that today’s press conference was the “opening statement” which indicates that the right knows nothing was released but much was promised.

If/when the claims by DT/Rudy/Powell fall flat, where will his support come from for a coup?  The only chance at that having any chance of working is if something massive is found.  Otherwise he won’t have any support and everyone will just watch his press conferences, ignore him, and watch him get escorted out in January.

This is sort of like the inverse version of John Oliver's "WE GOT HIM!" shtick. You keep saying something to the effect of "THIS is the thing that will finally cause Trump to lose support!" and then the next day Rudy or some other Trump associate comes along and asks you to hold his beer.

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1 hour ago, Gr00vus said:
1 hour ago, The Z Machine said:

I just told my wife we should start watching it again since neither of us finished the series.  We both stopped after season 3 or so.  I've heard really good things about it though. 

IMO the best episodes are from season 4 on.

Yeah, it really picks up when the Dominion enters the scene and gets more serial. Sci-fi is at its best when it uses the fantasy to study the human condition and DS9 did a fantastic job exploring the grey areas of morality/war like no other Star Trek. I think I will fire up a couple of episodes tonight.

 

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2 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

On what grounds?

They don't want to. One of the guys wife was one of the GOP poll challengers in Detroit who signed one of those affidavits saying the count in Detroit was BS or whatever. 

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3 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:
6 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

The general feeling in Michigan from the politicos in State are that neither of the GOP State Board of of Canvassers are going to vote to certify the election results in Michigan.

On what grounds?

Grounds? We ain't got no grounds. We don't need no grounds. I don't have to show you any stinking grounds.

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Just now, Ilov80s said:

They don't want to. One of the guys wife was one of the GOP poll challengers in Detroit who signed one of those affidavits saying the count in Detroit was BS or whatever. 

Looks like its time for the DNC to start filing suits to force these people to properly do their job.  This has passed the point in those places of letting the process play out.

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1 minute ago, sho nuff said:

Looks like its time for the DNC to start filing suits to force these people to properly do their job.  This has passed the point in those places of letting the process play out.

For sure the Dems in Michigan will and if anything, it will go to the Mich Supreme Court but it just goes to show that the Trump POV and MO has leaked all the way down to every level of local government. 

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2 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

They don't want to. One of the guys wife was one of the GOP poll challengers in Detroit who signed one of those affidavits saying the count in Detroit was BS or whatever. 

That's a thing? You can just refuse to certify with no justification?

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Just now, Gr00vus said:

That's a thing? You can just refuse to certify with no justification?

IDK the rules because this kind of thing has never happened before but I assume if they hold a vote, that means the voters can vote no. Otherwise there wouldn't be a vote. 

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11 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:
14 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

They don't want to. One of the guys wife was one of the GOP poll challengers in Detroit who signed one of those affidavits saying the count in Detroit was BS or whatever. 

That's a thing? You can just refuse to certify with no justification?

Sure, why not? Rules don't mean anything anymore.

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I've read too much on Michigan law today, but from what I can gather, if the Republican canvassers don't certify the election results, the Michigan Court of Appeals will force them to, under potential criminal penalty. Fraud investigations are way beyond the scope of their job.

I'm not sure how it moves past that. The Court of Appeals hasn't taken kindly to Trump's shenanigans. If the results somehow don't get certified, it would open the door for the Republican-controlled Michigan legislature to appoint electors. Even then, they're required by law to do so based on the popular vote, and many have already said they'll honor their duty if it comes to that.

It's crazy that this is even something to discuss, but it would take a whole lot more crazy to actually make it happen.

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Is everybody still laughing at the prospects of civil war?

 

I'm going to stock up on necessities tomorrow I think. We have 2 more months of this well at least 3-4 weeks of this. I mean at this point would it surprise anybody if there was a group of 20-30 thousand armed Trump supporters out front of the WH the day Trump is supposed to leave?

Edited by Milkman
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2 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Is everybody still laughing at the prospects of civil war?

 

I'm going to stock up on necessities tomorrow I think. We have 2 more months of this well at least 3-4 weeks of this. I mean at this point would it surprise anybody if there was a group of 20-30 thousand armed Trump supporters out front of the WH the day Trump is supposed to leave?

100% this.  People keep discounting what you are saying about the worst possible outcomes....but that’s what people in other failed democracies thought too.

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2 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Is everybody still laughing at the prospects of civil war?

 

I'm going to stock up on necessities tomorrow I think. We have 2 more months of this well at least 3-4 weeks of this. I mean at this point would it surprise anybody if there was a group of 20-30 thousand armed Trump supporters out front of the WH the day Trump is supposed to leave?

It would surprise me.

Those 20-30K people don't want to get rounded up and thrown in D.C. jails.  

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>>Wow. On @ActualidadRadio, a popular Spanish-language radio station in Miami, afternoon hosts Carines Moncada and Agustin Acosta just repeated as fact all the conspiracy theories from today’s Giuliani press conference on ‘voter fraud.’ "This could end in bloodshed," Acosta said.<<

https://twitter.com/lautarogrinspan/status/1329561191023321088

The promotion of these conspiracy theories by Spanish language media started a long time ago, a lot of it was on WhatsApp, a favorite way to communicate with family back home. This is from the day after the election:

>> In Miami, a Spanish-language radio show, “Cada Tarde con Carinés Moncada y Agustín Acosta,” pushed debunked claims late Tuesday that Republican poll watchers had been barred from observing voting locations in Pennsylvania.

In September, one of the show’s co-hosts, Carinés A. Moncada, had pushed a conspiracy theory that a co-founder of Black Lives Matter was involved in devil worship...

On Tuesday night, Eduardo A. Gamarra, a professor of political science at Florida International University, agreed to analyze the election on NTN24, a television news network based in Colombia. He found himself on the air debating Omar Bula Escobar, a former United Nations representative notorious for, among other false claims, saying that Mr. Soros controls the Democratic Party, an anti-Semitic trope embraced by QAnon.

Dr. Gamarra said he rejected Mr. Bula Escobar’s baseless claims of election fraud and then telephoned the network after the interview had concluded.

“I said: ‘Don’t you ever do that to me again. Do background research on your guests,’” he said. “This is irresponsible.”

A producer for the show did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Wednesday.

Evelyn Pérez-Verdía, a Democratic Latino issues strategist in South Florida, said she spent four hours on Tuesday trying to debunk false claims on Spanish-language radio that Mr. Biden, a moderate, was a left-wing radical.

“The Republicans called him a socialist, in those four hours, 20 times,” she said. “And a radical five times, and a Castro-Chavista” — a reference to Fidel Castro of Cuba and Hugo Chávez of Venezuela — “three times. Repeat a lie and repeat it until it becomes the truth.”<<

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/us/spanish-language-misinformation-latinos.html

 

 

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