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How Much Voter Fraud Happened In 2020?


Joe Bryant

How much voter fraud do you think happened in 2020?  

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7 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Is everybody still laughing at the prospects of civil war?

 

I'm going to stock up on necessities tomorrow I think. We have 2 more months of this well at least 3-4 weeks of this. I mean at this point would it surprise anybody if there was a group of 20-30 thousand armed Trump supporters out front of the WH the day Trump is supposed to leave?

Civil unrest maybe. Not war. The difference between militias today is that they are not equal to military forces in personnel, weapons, and technology 

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1 minute ago, Thunderlips said:

It would surprise me.

Those 20-30K people don't want to get rounded up and thrown in D.C. jails.  

How do you round up 30k of pissed off armed men? Do the cops come in? Probably not.......

So the military has to come in right? Do you think it would be peaceful? If it's not peaceful it will surely be a bloodbath with dead countrymen, mostly Trump supporters, laying all over the place. 

The country doesn't just come back from that. It's fractured for good at that point. 

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9 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Is everybody still laughing at the prospects of civil war?

I'm going to stock up on necessities tomorrow I think. We have 2 more months of this well at least 3-4 weeks of this. I mean at this point would it surprise anybody if there was a group of 20-30 thousand armed Trump supporters out front of the WH the day Trump is supposed to leave?

I hope it won't rise to the level of civil war, but I do have an uneasy feeling that we're going to see some stuff happen that seemed impossible for most of my life.

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3 minutes ago, Milkman said:

How do you round up 30k of pissed off armed men? Do the cops come in? Probably not.......

So the military has to come in right? Do you think it would be peaceful? If it's not peaceful it will surely be a bloodbath with dead countrymen, mostly Trump supporters, laying all over the place. 

The country doesn't just come back from that. It's fractured for good at that point. 

Meh.  If Donald J. Trump is the hill these people want to die on....I'm not going to stop them. I'm sure Trump will be happy that so many Gravy Seal members died to satisfy his ego though.

Blame Trump and the rest of the Coup Clutz Clan for fanning the flames of election malfeasance without proving anything.  

 

Edited by Thunderlips
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Just now, Alex P Keaton said:

Aren’t we already at that point?   I’m already seeing things I never thought would happen. 

Little steps closer and closer to the edge. The only people that can stop Trump from turning this country upside down is the GOP and so far most of them are backing him. 

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17 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Is everybody still laughing at the prospects of civil war?

 

I'm going to stock up on necessities tomorrow I think. We have 2 more months of this well at least 3-4 weeks of this. I mean at this point would it surprise anybody if there was a group of 20-30 thousand armed Trump supporters out front of the WH the day Trump is supposed to leave?

I’m not laughing at the prospect because it’s extremely scary to think about but yes I would be extremely surprised if something like that happened.  Even hardcore Trump supporters probably don’t want to lose their lives.

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19 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Is everybody still laughing at the prospects of civil war?

 

I'm going to stock up on necessities tomorrow I think. We have 2 more months of this well at least 3-4 weeks of this. I mean at this point would it surprise anybody if there was a group of 20-30 thousand armed Trump supporters out front of the WH the day Trump is supposed to leave?

Yes, because the United States military is much much much larger. 

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Just now, fred_1_15301 said:

I’m not laughing at the prospect because it’s extremely scary to think about but yes I would be extremely surprised if something like that happened.  Even hardcore Trump supporters probably don’t want to lose their lives.

Stock up on some extra stuff for you family man. It doesn't hurt. 

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Just now, fred_1_15301 said:

I’m not laughing at the prospect because it’s extremely scary to think about but yes I would be extremely surprised if something like that happened.  Even hardcore Trump supporters probably don’t want to lose their lives.

I’m not nearly as confident as you.

My wife and I have already made backup plans to quickly sell our house and move overseas if election rules get overthrown. 

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:
1 hour ago, Gr00vus said:

That's a thing? You can just refuse to certify with no justification?

IDK the rules because this kind of thing has never happened before but I assume if they hold a vote, that means the voters can vote no. Otherwise there wouldn't be a vote. 

I had thought these certifications were formalities ... and I mean really formalities, not merely 'gentlemen's agreements'. I had thought the Michigan Secretary of State could and would reach right down and certify whatever needed certifying in the event of a political stalemate at lower levels.

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I might have said it in earlier threads that talked about " if Trump will go peacefully". It was and is still my belief that, upon exhausting all of his avenues to cheat or backdoor this thing, Trump will.....with pompacity and arrogance, will magnanimously step down. He won't admit defeat. He won't say Biden beat him. He will frame it as if he, being the only person who could do it, will step down for the good of the country. He'll get an ego boost from that. His supporters will lap it up. His crooners in the media will talk about how he loves America too much to see it go thru such strife when it couldn't quuuuuiiiteeeee be proven that he was cheated. 

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40 minutes ago, Milkman said:

I mean at this point would it surprise anybody if there was a group of 20-30 thousand armed Trump supporters out front of the WH the day Trump is supposed to leave?

On Inauguration Day? Those 20-30 thousand better be ready to pierce the broad perimeter maintained by the Secret Service and dozens of other agencies including National Guardsmen and plain-clothes FBI.

Oh, and they better be prepared to march that last several miles or so:

Quote

Major roads, tunnels and bridges leading to the Capitol and downtown D.C. will be closed.

 

Edited by Doug B
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26 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

>>Wow. On @ActualidadRadio, a popular Spanish-language radio station in Miami, afternoon hosts Carines Moncada and Agustin Acosta just repeated as fact all the conspiracy theories from today’s Giuliani press conference on ‘voter fraud.’ "This could end in bloodshed," Acosta said.<<

...

Evelyn Pérez-Verdía, a Democratic Latino issues strategist in South Florida, said she spent four hours on Tuesday trying to debunk false claims on Spanish-language radio that Mr. Biden, a moderate, was a left-wing radical.

“The Republicans called him a socialist, in those four hours, 20 times,” she said. “And a radical five times, and a Castro-Chavista” — a reference to Fidel Castro of Cuba and Hugo Chávez of Venezuela — “three times. Repeat a lie and repeat it until it becomes the truth.”<<

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/us/spanish-language-misinformation-latinos.html

All that explains a ton. Misinformation in Miami -- of course. Shoulda known.

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11 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Stock up on some extra stuff for you family man. It doesn't hurt. 

I'm buying Thanksgiving groceries for my family tomorrow and worrying 0% about a civil war. This conversation is absurd. We're all blended together and most people could give 2 shakes about politics to get involved in any kind of organized conflict. 

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38 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Is everybody still laughing at the prospects of civil war?

 

I'm going to stock up on necessities tomorrow I think. We have 2 more months of this well at least 3-4 weeks of this. I mean at this point would it surprise anybody if there was a group of 20-30 thousand armed Trump supporters out front of the WH the day Trump is supposed to leave?

Wouldn't be much of a war...the military would not be taken by Trump supporters.

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5 minutes ago, kwille said:

I'm buying Thanksgiving groceries for my family tomorrow and worrying 0% about a civil war. This conversation is absurd. We're all blended together and most people could give 2 shakes about politics to get involved in any kind of organized conflict. 

It really is absurd.  There will be violence at times but nothing close to a civil war.  

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38 minutes ago, Milkman said:

How do you round up 30k of pissed off armed men? Do the cops come in? Probably not.......

So the military has to come in right? Do you think it would be peaceful? If it's not peaceful it will surely be a bloodbath with dead countrymen, mostly Trump supporters, laying all over the place. 

The country doesn't just come back from that. It's fractured for good at that point. 

If 20-30k show up armed...its already fractured for good.

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7 minutes ago, sho nuff said:
47 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Is everybody still laughing at the prospects of civil war?

I'm going to stock up on necessities tomorrow I think. We have 2 more months of this well at least 3-4 weeks of this. I mean at this point would it surprise anybody if there was a group of 20-30 thousand armed Trump supporters out front of the WH the day Trump is supposed to leave?

Wouldn't be much of a war...the military would not be taken by Trump supporters.

And if those supporters get too frisky ... there are plenty of Navy Seals stationed at Joint Expeditionary Base Little Creek (Virginia) about a 20-minute copter ride away. Those guys might be on hand in D.C. on Inauguration Day, anyway.

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40 minutes ago, Milkman said:

How do you round up 30k of pissed off armed men?

No need to round them up ... they don't even get close enough to see the White House.

There are three U.S. Marine installations in the D.C. area, including Washington Barracks in the district itself. Quantico is right across the river. That's on top of the SEAL teams that could be brought to bear from Little Creek in Virginia Beach.

As an aside: Something tells me the main run of armed Trump loyalists wouldn't be able to exploit the element of surprise -- they'd be seen coming way ahead of time. If for no other reason than by monitoring their social-media traffic.

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3 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

I don't see how he goes to prison. Innocent or guilty, he's too powerful IMO to ever end up in prison. From one perspective, Biden is the one engaging in the coup. Based on my conversations with some people who aren't super politically informed, it seems to be working. They are like "Sure Biden won but what if their was fraud and cheating? Then it shouldn't count." They don't really follow close enough to know if there was or wasn't but the idea has been implanted successfully. It's like Inception. Once an idea is out there, it's almost impossible to stop. 

There are literally people on this forum - well-meaning, genuine people - posting things like this.  We're beyond the looking glass.

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45 minutes ago, Milkman said:
52 minutes ago, Mile High said:

Or face the prospect of facing the United States military. 

What party does the military typically vote for?

Trump does not have the undying personal allegiance of the members of the military. Anecdotally, and admittedly from just a few people ... he's not well respected among many of the ranks.

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1 hour ago, Milkman said:

Is everybody still laughing at the prospects of civil war?

 

I'm going to stock up on necessities tomorrow I think. We have 2 more months of this well at least 3-4 weeks of this. I mean at this point would it surprise anybody if there was a group of 20-30 thousand armed Trump supporters out front of the WH the day Trump is supposed to leave?

"Listen, I'ma leave you right where you stand
Have the ambulance pass ya Timberlands off right to ya man
'cause he #####, he ain't gonna do nothin but look
When it come to beef, he don't want to do nothing but cook"

- Jadakiss, "Rite Where U Stand"

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7 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Trump does not have the undying personal allegiance of the members of the military. Anecdotally, and admittedly from just a few people ... he's not well respected among many of the ranks.

This Military Times poll from August did not paint a very flattering picture - almost 50% viewed Trump unfavorably, and more said they'd vote for Biden than him.

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12 minutes ago, Doug B said:

As an aside: Something tells me the main run of armed Trump loyalists wouldn't be able to exploit the element of surprise -- they'd be seen coming way ahead of time. If for no other reason than by monitoring their social-media traffic.

The FBI had been tracking the militia who were planning to kidnap Governor Whitmer since early in the year. A theory I heard was the FBI chose to strike and take down so close to the election as a warning to all the others who might be planning something. 

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1 hour ago, Spartans Rule said:

I've read too much on Michigan law today, but from what I can gather, if the Republican canvassers don't certify the election results, the Michigan Court of Appeals will force them to, under potential criminal penalty. Fraud investigations are way beyond the scope of their job.

I'm not sure how it moves past that. The Court of Appeals hasn't taken kindly to Trump's shenanigans. If the results somehow don't get certified, it would open the door for the Republican-controlled Michigan legislature to appoint electors. Even then, they're required by law to do so based on the popular vote, and many have already said they'll honor their duty if it comes to that.

It's crazy that this is even something to discuss, but it would take a whole lot more crazy to actually make it happen.

Could they just pick anyone or is it from a small select group of predetermined people?

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21 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Trump does not have the undying personal allegiance of the members of the military. Anecdotally, and admittedly from just a few people ... he's not well respected among many of the ranks.

 General Mark Milley – Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff – made it clear that the military’s allegiance is not to the president, but to the constitution.

Standing beside the newly-installed Miller at the opening of the US Army’s museum, Milley said: “We are unique among militaries. We do not take an oath to a king or a queen, a tyrant or a dictator. We do not take an oath to an individual.

“No, we do not take an oath to a country, a tribe or religion. We take an oath to the Constitution. And every soldier that is represented in this museum, every sailor, airman, Marine, Coast Guardsman, each of us will protect and defend that document, regardless of personal price.”

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There’s a difference in angry Twitter posts and showing up armed at the White House. A massive difference. Based on current “evidence”, you’re gonna have 500 max and half of them are just gonna show up to enhance their Twitter reputation and get more followers. Trump is hemorrhaging support now and the only way that changes is very persuasive evidence.

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1 hour ago, Milkman said:

Is everybody still laughing at the prospects of civil war?

 

I'm going to stock up on necessities tomorrow I think. We have 2 more months of this well at least 3-4 weeks of this. I mean at this point would it surprise anybody if there was a group of 20-30 thousand armed Trump supporters out front of the WH the day Trump is supposed to leave?

Yes

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13 minutes ago, Mile High said:

 General Mark Milley – Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff – made it clear that the military’s allegiance is not to the president, but to the constitution.

Standing beside the newly-installed Miller at the opening of the US Army’s museum, Milley said: “We are unique among militaries. We do not take an oath to a king or a queen, a tyrant or a dictator. We do not take an oath to an individual.

“No, we do not take an oath to a country, a tribe or religion. We take an oath to the Constitution. And every soldier that is represented in this museum, every sailor, airman, Marine, Coast Guardsman, each of us will protect and defend that document, regardless of personal price.”

I'm not worried about armed Trump supporters trying to block Biden from being inaugurated.

I'm worried about Trump using loopholes within the Constitution to remain in power. What Trump is proving right now is that the procedures for transferring power are fragile, tenuous, and vague, and it only takes a small number of unscrupulous actors — a canvasser here, a state legislator there, maybe a couple of faithless electors, not to mention the Supreme Court — for a losing candidate to seize a Presidential election. And it would all be 100% Constitutional.

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6 hours ago, Doug B said:

I had thought these certifications were formalities ... and I mean really formalities, not merely 'gentlemen's agreements'. I had thought the Michigan Secretary of State could and would reach right down and certify whatever needed certifying in the event of a political stalemate at lower levels.

If she can, she will.

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5 hours ago, shader said:

There’s a difference in angry Twitter posts and showing up armed at the White House. A massive difference. Based on current “evidence”, you’re gonna have 500 max and half of them are just gonna show up to enhance their Twitter reputation and get more followers. Trump is hemorrhaging support now and the only way that changes is very persuasive evidence.

Agreed. I think speculating about civil war and mass violence is a step too far and I’m the person speculating about a divided government moving forward so I’m pretty willing to look at extreme possibilities.

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10 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Agreed. I think speculating about civil war and mass violence is a step too far and I’m the person speculating about a divided government moving forward so I’m pretty willing to look at extreme possibilities.

It’s a totally ridiculous discussion.  First, too many people don’t care.  We like to say the country is divided but in reality there’s still a 3rd large segment that really doesn’t give a ####.  Honestly, until Trump that was mostly me.  I’m just not invested enough for that to ever happen.  Second, as many people have pointed out - we are way too lazy collectively.  Third, most of the things being stated as things that would lead up to it just aren’t going to happen.  It’s fantasy.  

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6 hours ago, Capella said:

Some of y’all need to take a couple days away from the internet. 

You're in denial about what's happening. I mean civil war is a long shot I agree but only because we're probably to lazy but a coup is absolutely being attempted and has better odds of being successful than you're giving it.

Even if the coup is successful but we don't have civil war our democracy has been shattered. 

The betting favorite is obviously that we aren't going to have a civil war or a coup but it's absolutely on the table and it's terrifying. 

Even if none of this happens the GOP has the blueprint they need to use in the future to get their voter base riled up. Keep throwing poo at the wall until something sticks. Once they prove one of your outrageous lies wrong (deny/claim fake news) and just throw an even more outrageous lies out there. Rinse and repeat indefinitely. 

 

What happens when someone smarter than Trump comes in and  uses it? 

This country truly is on the decline. I guess a reset of sorts is inevitable. Maybe it's time.

 

Edited by Milkman
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I'm not sure but I don't think we've had one Trump supporter come in this thread and speak out against what Trump is doing. Tells me half the country is ok with Trump just taking over indefinitely as dictator with zero evidence provided that the election was rigged. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Milkman said:

I'm not sure but I don't think we've had one Trump supporter come in this thread and speak out against what Trump is doing. Tells me half the country is ok with Trump just taking over indefinitely as dictator with zero evidence provided that the election was rigged. 

 

Quite the opposite in fact.  I guess their silence means their onboard with Trump.

But I am not worried about the 20-30k armed Trump supporters.  I think the Proud Boys and their ilk are 95% wannabe soldiers.  They like to dress up in fatigues and carry their guns around and act tough but like Trump they aren't going to make a stand and put their lives in danger.  Of course there are the 5% wackos that make plans to kidnap governors and the like but most of them are too dumb to organize anything on a large scale.  

As for the president, he has a right to pursue recounts and present any evidence of fraud to the courts but what we're seeing is well beyond that.   We have never seen such defiance and disregard for our election process by a sitting president.  All Americans should be outraged and the Republicans that are remaining silent and allowing this nonsense are accomplices.   

The bottom line is this:  what Trump is doing is dangerous and is harmful to the country but there is not going to be a civil war.  No need to hoard food and create shortages for something that isn't going to happen.

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@Max Power - Serious question.  For sake of argument, if neither Guiliani nor Powell produce any actual evidence to back up their claims, do you think they should be prosecuted for what they've been doing?  If we discover evidence (e.g. e-mail, witnesses, or recordings) that they knew their claims were false, should they be prosecuted?

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28 minutes ago, Milkman said:

I'm not sure but I don't think we've had one Trump supporter come in this thread and speak out against what Trump is doing. Tells me half the country is ok with Trump just taking over indefinitely as dictator with zero evidence provided that the election was rigged. 

 

It really does defy logic.  All this for Donald Trump.  And not a word about how Hillary conceded with a much more narrow loss and how Trump was afforded all the rights of a president elect.

All this for Donald Trump...I simply can't wrap my head around it.

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1 hour ago, Milkman said:

I'm not sure but I don't think we've had one Trump supporter come in this thread and speak out against what Trump is doing. Tells me half the country is ok with Trump just taking over indefinitely as dictator with zero evidence provided that the election was rigged. 

 

Other than a few Trump supporters in here, they've mostly gone silent.  Probably lurking and praying for a Hail Mary.  If it doesn't happen, you won't see them around here again for another 4 years.  

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9 hours ago, Thunderlips said:

I might have said it in earlier threads that talked about " if Trump will go peacefully". It was and is still my belief that, upon exhausting all of his avenues to cheat or backdoor this thing, Trump will.....with pompacity and arrogance, will magnanimously step down. He won't admit defeat. He won't say Biden beat him. He will frame it as if he, being the only person who could do it, will step down for the good of the country. He'll get an ego boost from that. His supporters will lap it up. His crooners in the media will talk about how he loves America too much to see it go thru such strife when it couldn't quuuuuiiiteeeee be proven that he was cheated. 

Someone else mentioned it here (or maybe twitter), that he'll use the holidays to head down to Mar A Lago and then just never return.

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6 minutes ago, 2Squirrels1Nut said:

Ben shapiro is calling powell out too. Said if you are going to release the kraken like you said, now is the time to do it and stop talking about it. 

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I saw a clip with Powell (from Newsmax I think) where she again cited the 130K overnight vote dump in either MI or WI as proof of widespread fraud. But she then added “before it was corrected.” So they are banging the drum on the first part all over the place but conveniently are leaving out the second part. 

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8 hours ago, Sea Duck said:

I'm not worried about armed Trump supporters trying to block Biden from being inaugurated.

I'm worried about Trump using loopholes within the Constitution to remain in power. What Trump is proving right now is that the procedures for transferring power are fragile, tenuous, and vague, and it only takes a small number of unscrupulous actors — a canvasser here, a state legislator there, maybe a couple of faithless electors, not to mention the Supreme Court — for a losing candidate to seize a Presidential election. And it would all be 100% Constitutional.

Actually, I think we’re finding that our crazy fragmented voting system is actually acting as a great check on Trump. His lawyers are losing bigly in every lawsuit they bring. We’re finding that state laws are binding people to act in ways that are sensible and not allowing them to act as rogues. 

I know that a lot of folks really want just a national popular vote to determine things, but perhaps what’s going on now should give people some pause on that. Can you imagine if the Presidential election was done by a national popular vote and that election was being run by a Trump sycophant? Yikes.

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