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How Much Voter Fraud Happened In 2020?


How much voter fraud do you think happened in 2020?  

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20 minutes ago, sho nuff said:
26 minutes ago, 2Squirrels1Nut said:

Yeah. Its all them...never anything he jas done.

What did the President think was going to happen? That all he had to do was "call lawyers" and reversing the election results would be a trivial matter?

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Brad Heath Retweeted Lawrence Hurley @lawrencehurley BREAKING: Supreme Court rejects Texas-led effort to toss out election results in four key states that Biden won 6:31 PM · Dec 1

Here's the problem with that position (from my point of view, and I venture to guess the point of view of everyone that is not a supporter of Donald Trump and/or the GOP currently) (and I truly don't

There were no Tesla counties for Edison to rename. 

3 minutes ago, Doug B said:

What did the President think was going to happen? That all he had to do was "call lawyers" and reversing the election results would be a trivial matter?

It has worked his whole life.  Of course he was successful because most of the people he sued couldn't defend themselves, not because he was lawfully right.

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Reading through the Fox News comment section on the Powell story and they are surprisingly, happily, anti-Trump and this charade.

This is the best one IMO

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She has affidavits. One is from someone that could not believe that a military vote would be for Biden. That is the level of complaint they have.

 

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16 minutes ago, Doug B said:
38 minutes ago, sho nuff said:
44 minutes ago, 2Squirrels1Nut said:

Yeah. Its all them...never anything he jas done.

What did the President think was going to happen? That all he had to do was "call lawyers" and reversing the election results would be a trivial matter?

Guys, this is just Theatre to maintain the base. It allows them to say "He would have won if it wasn't for Sidney Powell Rudy Giuliani."

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11 hours ago, Yankee23Fan said:

The DNC should use this brief as a campaign ad for every election at every level for the next 50 years.  It's truly remarkable. 

Here is your President's legal position,  certified by legal counsel,  and now made part of the public record as if he said it at a podium:

All the votes in Pennsylvania were fine,  except the votes for president.  The ballots as to every other race are not being challenged. Which,  for the rest of everything argued makes literally no sense at all on any level.  It also means that the President of the United States is certifying that election fraud that doesn't effect him personally isn't worth pursuing,  nor are those elections worth protecting. So for all you,  let's vet everything guys,  your president disagrees. 

Democratic conspirators worked in tandem to make sure that more Biden votes were counted than Trump votes because they knew where the votes were coming from,  the demographics of the area,  and they had knowledge of the different campaign positions of Trump and Biden. Which means,  in essence,  everyone knows Biden was going to get more black votes,  and the fact that they actually allowed those votes to be counted is a violation of Pennsylvania law.  That's a bold claim by them.  Should help the GOP for years. 

And then my favorite.  They want access to all of the votes they deem questionable or at least a representative sample of them so that they can then research to determine if their mathematical formulae that they have been using to speak numbers in press conferences are actually correct.  They believe they are but they have...... no proof at all and want the court to give them access so that they can find the proof. 

Which,  I mean to be fair,  we do try as much as we can.  We just usually don't have press conferences saying we have all the proof and then,  hope no one reads too deep when we ask the court to help us find the proof we said we had. 

Oh, and their final main point.  They actually do have proof.  They have thousands of affidavits.  Yup. They literally pled that.  

That's your President.  Election integrity only matters when it affects me,  you can't count the votes of people who don't support me,  we have a ton of proof but we need the court to help us find it. And actually we have all the proof we need with these 700 pages of affidavits that have already been summarily rejected when reviewed by the court as nothing more than the childish fantasies of narcissists full of sound and fury and signifying nothing. 

Remarkable.

gonna steal this :thumbup: 

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It’s not voter fraud but seems like election fraud that needs to be stopped. Legal system has to do something to account for this imo 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/23/politics/florida-dark-money-mystery-invs/index.html
 

Summary: dark money in Florida State Senate race did targeted campaigning for a man who seemed to have no interest in running for the office and no intention of winning. The Republican beat the incumbent Democrat by less than 49 votes and this mystery candidate who wouldn’t even give an interview with the press or campaign received 6,000 votes. Allowing that to happen is basically allowing fraud to be committed on the voters.

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16 hours ago, Mystery Achiever said:

They and a few others are trying to join the appeal in the Third Circuit of the case thrown out on Saturday.
https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/1330978279415828483

A lot of the same people (and same attorney) who (a) went to court to try to stop the Governor from imposing Covid restrictions; and (b) tried to impeach the Governor for taking those actions. 

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11 hours ago, Yankee23Fan said:

That's your President.  Election integrity only matters when it affects me,  you can't count the votes of people who don't support me,  we have a ton of proof but we need the court to help us find it. And actually we have all the proof we need with these 700 pages of affidavits that have already been summarily rejected when reviewed by the court as nothing more than the childish fantasies of narcissists full of sound and fury and signifying nothing. 

Yeah but there is lots of smoke.  There is no possible way Biden could have won, the statistical analysis and huge crowds at the MAGA rallies prove it.   You need to give the president's legal team more time to sort it all out; things are progressing nicely and when the President's crack legal team reveals it all:  BOOM!!!!   

What's your rush to declare Biden the winner -- what are you afraid of?  

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10 hours ago, Doug B said:

What did the President think was going to happen? That all he had to do was "call lawyers" and reversing the election results would be a trivial matter?

I've had clients like this before. They believe their own bull#### and that their case is bulletproof. And then, when you go to court and get your ### kicked because the case sucked, they get pissed at you.

The key is being honest with your client at the beginning. And letting them know it sucks. I reckon Rudy hasn't done that.

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32 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

It’s not voter fraud but seems like election fraud that needs to be stopped. Legal system has to do something to account for this imo 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/23/politics/florida-dark-money-mystery-invs/index.html
 

Summary: dark money in Florida State Senate race did targeted campaigning for a man who seemed to have no interest in running for the office and no intention of winning. The Republican beat the incumbent Democrat by less than 49 votes and this mystery candidate who wouldn’t even give an interview with the press or campaign received 6,000 votes. Allowing that to happen is basically allowing fraud to be committed on the voters.

Maybe Democrats will start advocating for ranked order voting.

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So is Team Trump appealing that they should have had the right to amend their petition in the lower court . . . for a case that the judge wouldn’t hear and said could not be re-filed? So best case it gets sent backwards not up the chain of courts? What are they really going to get out of this appeal?

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7 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

So is Team Trump appealing that they should have had the right to amend their petition in the lower court . . . for a case that the judge wouldn’t hear and said could not be re-filed? So best case it gets sent backwards not up the chain of courts? What are they really going to get out of this appeal?

20k a day for Rudy

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2 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

Yeah but there is lots of smoke.  There is no possible way Biden could have won, the statistical analysis and huge crowds at the MAGA rallies prove it.   You need to give the president's legal team more time to sort it all out; things are progressing nicely and when the President's crack legal team reveals it all:  BOOM!!!!   

What's your rush to declare Biden the winner -- what are you afraid of?  

Carnies.  Small hands.  Smell of cabbage.

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1 hour ago, Rich Conway said:

Maybe Democrats will start advocating for ranked order voting.

Not sure what the answer is, that’s not a bad one. It just seems wrong for someone to get their name on a ballot who doesn’t campaign or intend to win and is only there to sow chaos, mislead and steal votes. It’s really unfair to the voters.

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Just an hour ago, President Trump re-tweeted the affidavit filed by Lin Wood which almost everyone now understands was based on the affiant's confusion between Minnesota counties and Michigan election results (being from Texas, he thought "MI" is the abbreviation for Minnesota.)   He also re-tweeted Randy Quaid 5 times, including this one.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Drunken Cowboy said:

20k a day for Rudy

I'm sure part of the deal with Rudy is to keep this charade going  as long as possible so Trump can continue to milk every last dime out of his supporters who are donating to his legal fund.   The problem for Rudy is that Trump isn't very good at paying his bills.    

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1 hour ago, CletiusMaximus said:

Just an hour ago, President Trump re-tweeted the affidavit filed by Lin Wood which almost everyone now understands was based on the affiant's confusion between Minnesota counties and Michigan election results (being from Texas, he thought "MI" is the abbreviation for Minnesota.) 

Do we know for certain that the affiant was "confused" about the abbreviations of Minnesota and Michigan? I wouldn't want to make assumptions without evidence.

 

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1 hour ago, CletiusMaximus said:

Just an hour ago, President Trump re-tweeted the affidavit filed by Lin Wood which almost everyone now understands was based on the affiant's confusion between Minnesota counties and Michigan election results (being from Texas, he thought "MI" is the abbreviation for Minnesota.)   He also re-tweeted Randy Quaid 5 times, including this one.

 

 

An absolute lunatic 

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2 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

Not sure what the answer is, that’s not a bad one. It just seems wrong for someone to get their name on a ballot who doesn’t campaign or intend to win and is only there to sow chaos, mislead and steal votes. It’s really unfair to the voters.

How do you evaluate whether or not a candidate “really wants to win”?

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1 hour ago, CletiusMaximus said:

Just an hour ago, President Trump re-tweeted the affidavit filed by Lin Wood which almost everyone now understands was based on the affiant's confusion between Minnesota counties and Michigan election results (being from Texas, he thought "MI" is the abbreviation for Minnesota.)   He also re-tweeted Randy Quaid 5 times, including this one.

 

 

Huh.  Cousin Eddie really is.....Cousin Eddie.  He wasn’t acting.

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7 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

How do you evaluate whether or not a candidate “really wants to win”?

I don’t know the Florida requirements and am not an expert. It’s tricky for sure but I would be curious what the standards are and what options are reasonable. 
 

This one was especially sneaky and maybe effective because the guy they found to run as the 3rd party candidate had the same last name as the incumbent.

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6 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Huh.  Cousin Eddie really is.....Cousin Eddie.  He wasn’t acting.

yeah Google Randy Quaid if you want to go down a rabbit hole. At one point they were in Canada requesting asylum status saying they feared for their lives in the US. He’s a very strange man.

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6 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:
10 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

How do you evaluate whether or not a candidate “really wants to win”?

I don’t know the Florida requirements and am not an expert. It’s tricky for sure but I would be curious what the standards are and what options are reasonable. 
 

This one was especially sneaky and maybe effective because the guy they found to run as the 3rd party candidate had the same last name as the incumbent.

I can't decide if they stole the idea from Eddie Murphy or from Richard Pryor.

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2 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

I can't decide if they stole the idea from Eddie Murphy or from Richard Pryor.

I’m sure it’s not the first time this has happened. It seems like all you needed in that district was 1000 signatures. Not hard to come up with if you have a PAC with $500,000 behind you. It sounds the guy himself didn’t do anything. Didn’t campaign and when contacted by reporters he tried to pretend he was someone else lol.

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:
10 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Huh.  Cousin Eddie really is.....Cousin Eddie.  He wasn’t acting.

yeah Google Randy Quaid if you want to go down a rabbit hole. At one point they were in Canada requesting asylum status saying they feared for their lives in the US. He’s a very strange man.

Quaid was in Canada because he JUMPED BAIL ON A BURGLARY CHARGE. He's still subject to arrest if he leaves the state of Vermont.

Our President: retweeting wanted fugitives.

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4 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

Quaid was in Canada because he JUMPED BAIL ON A BURGLARY CHARGE. He's still subject to arrest if he leaves the state of Vermont.

Our President: retweeting wanted fugitives.

He also was illegally in Canada failing to properly register and then had the BS asylum request which makes this quite ironic.

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6 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:
22 hours ago, sho nuff said:

Why is that...seems spot on as we see some of the really out there theories.

Because it's from the Atlantic - the source of the "losers and suckers" hoax. Which was divorced from reality.

This is sort of a microcosm of the Trump playbook: deny a story by getting a bunch of confirmed liars to cry "hoax."

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11 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Because it's from the Atlantic - the source of the "losers and suckers" hoax. Which was divorced from reality.

I suspect you knew this.

Ummm...it was a hoax and divorced from reality how now?  It was confirmed by the AP, Washington Post and NYT.

Just because Trump claimed he didn't say it does not make it a hoax.  Nor does it have anything to do with the piece that was linked to.

 

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1 minute ago, Joe Summer said:

This is sort of a microcosm of the Trump playbook: deny a story by getting a bunch of confirmed liars to cry "hoax."

Then claim the source that put it out there is fake news and you can't take anything else from them seriously (ignoring the other 3 that confirmed the sourcing).  All while believing Donald Trump and sources far less credible than the one they are bashing.

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3 minutes ago, Joe Summer said:

This is sort of a microcosm of the Trump playbook: deny a story by getting a bunch of confirmed liars to cry "hoax."

You've got it backwards. The left playbook is to publish that garbage and then cry "JoUrNaLiSm!"

It's garbage and the average person can see right through it. Then later, when polling shows people don't trust the media, the people eating it all up with a spoon cry "zomg, must be a cult!"

Rinse, repeat.

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White House signs off on Biden getting the President's Daily Briefing (CNN, 11/25/2020)

Quote

 

The White House has given formal approval for President-elect Joe Biden to receive the President's Daily Briefing (PDB), according to a White House official.

Coordination on when he'll receive his first one is underway currently. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Mile High said:

Within the last hour Republicans have sued to stop certification in Minnesota and Wisconsin. 

Heard or saw this on a broadcast? Looking for an online cite, but if this is brand-new news, I might have to wait a bit.

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1 minute ago, sho nuff said:
3 minutes ago, Joe Summer said:

This is sort of a microcosm of the Trump playbook: deny a story by getting a bunch of confirmed liars to cry "hoax."

Then claim the source that put it out there is fake news and you can't take anything else from them seriously (ignoring the other 3 that confirmed the sourcing).  All while believing Donald Trump and sources far less credible than the one they are bashing.

To be fair, the Atlantic story probably did get one thing wrong: the decision to cancel the cemetery visit in France was likely influenced, in no small part, on recommendations from the helicopter crew and/or other advisors. That doesn't mean that Trump couldn't have made an executive override if he was bound and determined to visit the cemetery, of course.

But the key part of the story to which @Norville referenced ("losers and suckers") has not been disputed by anyone who isn't a confirmed liar.

(Also, this overlooks another piece of evidence which was omitted from the Atlantic story: Trump also skipped out on a visit to Arlington cemetery later that week — when there were no helicopters involved — claiming that he was too busy making phone calls that day.)

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Just now, Joe Summer said:

To be fair, the Atlantic story probably did get one thing wrong: the decision to cancel the cemetery visit in France was likely influenced, in no small part, on recommendations from the helicopter crew and/or other advisors. That doesn't mean that Trump couldn't have made an executive override if he was bound and determined to visit the cemetery, of course.

But the key part of the story to which @Norville referenced ("losers and suckers") has not been disputed by anyone who isn't a confirmed liar.

(Also, this overlooks another piece of evidence which was omitted from the Atlantic story: Trump also skipped out on a visit to Arlington cemetery later that week — when there were no helicopters involved — claiming that he was too busy making phone calls that day.)

Sure...as other leaders were able to get places.  Just calling it all a hoax is lazy IMO.

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8 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:
15 minutes ago, Joe Summer said:

This is sort of a microcosm of the Trump playbook: deny a story by getting a bunch of confirmed liars to cry "hoax."

You've got it backwards. The left playbook is to publish that garbage and then cry "JoUrNaLiSm!"

It's garbage and the average person can see right through it. Then later, when polling shows people don't trust the media, the people eating it all up with a spoon cry "zomg, must be a cult!"

Rinse, repeat.

As far as I know, the "losers and suckers" quotes have not been disputed by anyone who isn't a confirmed liar. But I have an open mind so please let me know if I am mistaken.

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If I could interrupt the proceedings for a bit of a rant, as it probably best fits here:

Daughter was eligible to vote for the first time this year and was very excited as she is super into politics.  We watched all of the debates, voted in the primary together, but she started college in another state (we are in PA).  She requested an absentee ballot in September, was getting nervous as it took 4-6 weeks to get to her for some reason, filled it out and sent it back mid October.  Tracked that it was received the week before the election, so everything should be good.  A few days after the election her ballot is updated on line to "canceled".  She is very distraught, tries to find answers.  Nobody responds to e-mails, she gets in touch by phone, not much help.  Today she finally got in touch with a supervisor who told her that the envelope she returned had nothing inside of it.  :no:  She swears that she put the secrecy envelope inside and followed all of the instructions and I 100% believe her.  She was so excited and I am very bummed that her vote didn't end up even counting, but it just makes no sense.  Random vandalism?  Caught in a sorting machine?  Total incompetence somewhere?  She is going to write our representative, but I don't expect we'll ever find out what really happened.  She says she's never voting by mail again and will switch to voting at her college while she is there.  Can't say that I blame her.

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2 hours ago, Doug B said:
2 hours ago, Mile High said:
2 hours ago, Doug B said:

Heard or saw this on a broadcast? Looking for an online cite, but if this is brand-new news, I might have to wait a bit.

https://mobile.twitter.com/marceelias

I guess since it's not Trump's campaign lawyers filing, it's not getting mainstream news coverage.

It's 25 republicans who lost their elections, seeking to have the entire election thrown out and a new election conducted.   They have 0 chance.

 

Edit:  They filed this today.  The election results were already certified today.   This will be dismissed since they sought an injunction preventing certification so that they could seek a new election.

Edited by the rover
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3 hours ago, Doug B said:
3 hours ago, Mile High said:

Within the last hour Republicans have sued to stop certification in Minnesota and Wisconsin. 

Heard or saw this on a broadcast? Looking for an online cite, but if this is brand-new news, I might have to wait a bit.

Here's the Wisconsin lawsuit - a direct petition to the Wis. Supreme Court.  This seems to rely heavily on an allegation that "Zuckerberg money" infiltrated the election process in Wisconsin.  The main complaint, one we've heard often the past few days, is that Wisconsin illegally allowed absentee mail voters to register without an ID by certifying that they are "indefinitely confined" at home.

Here's the Minnesota lawsuit, also a direct petition.

These lawsuits are mostly being tracked here:  https://www.democracydocket.com/

 

For anyone who still cares, the DNC (as intervenor) filed its response to the Trump brief in the PA appeal case before the 3rd Circuit - https://www.democracydocket.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/2020/11/Document-2.pdf .  Based on a quick skim, its seems pretty well-written.  At least they spelled the PA Governor's name correctly, something Rudy's briefs got consistently wrong.  These guys at Perkins Coie have quite a bit of practice dealing with these crazy lawsuits.

 

Quote

This appeal (and Plaintiffs’ underlying lawsuit) is now moot. The actions Plaintiffs ask this Court to enjoin have already occurred: all 67 counties in the Commonwealth have now certified their results, Pennsylvania’s Secretary of State has tabulated those results, and, just within the last few hours, Governor Wolf has signed the Certificate of Ascertainment for the slate of electors for President-elect Biden and Vice President-elect Harris and submitted the certificate to the Archivist of the United States. The certification of the November 3, 2020 general election in Pennsylvania is complete, and there is nothing to enjoin. The Court should dismiss this appeal.

In any event, the district court correctly denied Plaintiffs leave to amend and certainly did not abuse its discretion. As the record of erratic filings reveals, the proceedings below were chaos. Not only did Plaintiffs bombard the district court with “strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations,” while seeking to disenfranchise “all the voters of [the] sixth most populated state” based on unfounded accusations of a nationwide conspiracy, but they also continuously moved the goalposts during their own emergency proceedings. Donald J. Trump for President, Inc. v. Boockvar, --- F. Supp. 3d ---, 2020 WL 6821992, at *1 (M.D. Pa. Nov. 21, 2020).

...

Even though the Commonwealth’s certification process spans just a few weeks, Plaintiffs waited until a week after Election Day to file this suit, and after another week, Plaintiffs switched counsel and, rather than respond in full to the merits of Defendants’ and Intervenors’ motions to dismiss, Plaintiffs amended their complaint by abandoning most of their claims. The parties then engaged in a second round of briefing on motions to dismiss the Amended Complaint. But just before the district court’s hearing on those motions, and without explanation, Plaintiffs switched counsel again and asked to delay the hearing, which the court denied. And after a nearly six-hour hearing on the renewed motions to dismiss, Plaintiffs asked to file yet another amended complaint to re-assert the claims they had previously eliminated. The district court correctly recognized that Plaintiffs had created the situation in which they found themselves: had Plaintiffs not eliminated the claims they sought to re-assert, the court and parties could have timely addressed them. But given certification deadlines, Plaintiffs’ bait-and-switch meant there was not enough time to restart this suit without significantly prejudicing all others involved.

 

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The Minnesota lawsuit is at least readable, although the Zuckerberg conspiracy stuff is odd and doesn't further any argument at all.   Their "evidence" is hearsay opinion of their "expert" as to how many votes shouldn't have been counted or should have been counted and weren't.   Their relief is to invalidate the entire election.   

This will get thrown out immediately.  

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