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How Much Voter Fraud Happened In 2020? (4 Viewers)

How much voter fraud do you think happened in 2020?

  • I voted for Biden and I think Voter Fraud was rampant - enough to impact the outcome.

    Votes: 8 1.7%

  • I voted for Biden and I think Voter Fraud was real - enough to maybe impact the outcome.

    Votes: 4 0.8%

  • I voted for Biden and I think Voter Fraud was minimal - not enough to make a real impact

    Votes: 65 13.7%

  • I voted for Biden and I think Voter Fraud was virtually non existent - no impact at all

    Votes: 269 56.9%

  • I voted for Trump and I think Voter Fraud was rampant - enough to impact the outcome.

    Votes: 26 5.5%

  • I voted for Trump and I think Voter Fraud was real - enough to maybe impact the outcome.

    Votes: 23 4.9%

  • I voted for Trump and I think Voter Fraud was minimal - not enough to make a real impact

    Votes: 14 3.0%

  • I voted for Trump and I think Voter Fraud was virtually non existent - no impact at all

    Votes: 8 1.7%

  • I voted for a 3rd party or didn't vote and I think Voter Fraud was rampant - enough to impact the ou

    Votes: 7 1.5%

  • I voted for a 3rd party or didn't vote and I think Voter Fraud was real - enough to maybe impact the

    Votes: 11 2.3%

  • I voted for a 3rd party or didn't vote and I think Voter Fraud was minimal - not enough to make a re

    Votes: 20 4.2%

  • I voted for a 3rd party or didn't vote and I think Voter Fraud was virtually non existent - no impac

    Votes: 18 3.8%
  • Total voters
    473
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I think the most objectionable point that shader seems to make is that if the claim is truly bogus, it will be rejected and there is no harm done. I think there is harm done when the President of the United States makes absurd claims in an effort to overturn an election 

Let’s do another thought experiment. Let’s say Trump emerges next week in a military uniform, calling himself Generalissimo and calling on the military to assist in keeping him in power. Let’s be optimistic and assume the Joint Chiefs laugh in his face and the Secret Service escorts him out of office. The system holds. But is it really no harm/ no foul?
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Of course not.  As I've posted before it would be akin to being repeatedly accused of some horrible crime you didn't commit just because some group of people don't like you. 

 
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Ilov80s said:
Definitely a good idea to look at all these machines and how the process is run. Trump won that county easily and it’s run by pretty much entirely GOP politicians. It sounds like they have done a very poor job managing, running and maintaining their voting software. Not sure we can make any larger assumptions based off one rural county though. 
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No but I've already seen it all over the supports twitter and FB timelines, it only takes one machine to be wrong to cast doubt on every other machine and then to have them audited (or whatever you do to a voting machine to make sure it works correctly). My point is, it's like finding one wrong answer in a massive pile of correct answers. If you don't believe the outcome was correct then you project that wrong answer over all the right ones and that is exactly what's happening now. This #### will never end.

Ilov80s said:
Unless there is a massive planned mutiny we aren’t aware of yet, it’s going to take the use of military force after today to anything to stop it.
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This was the proposal from a Trump fan girl yesterday. Since the Supreme Court abandoned him and there are no brave governors to step up and champion his cause, the logical next step:

"Mainstream media CCP propaganda wants people to believe @realDonaldTrump will attempt a military coup of US government.

ERRNAT NONSENSE

President Trump must act to save country & freedom. Time to move on EQ on Foreign Interference & order martial law to clean up election"

 
Alex P Keaton said:
Exactly.   That’s been the endgame all along.
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That would have been the cherry on the sundae, but the sundae has always been the grift.  Keep the flock giving up their cash while filling their heads with magical thinking.  I mean, have you seen the emails that his supporters get calling them patriots and asking for cash?  It's embarrassing.

 
Just saw quickly on Newsmax of all places that Electorate College delegates in all of the contested battleground states (MI, AZ, GA, NV, PA, MN, and WI) have officially been awarded to Biden. They did not specify at that point any other information on what options the GOP had or what their strategy was moving forward.

 
Anarchy99 said:
Just saw quickly on Newsmax of all places that Electorate College delegates in all of the contested battleground states (MI, AZ, GA, NV, PA, MN, and WI) have officially been awarded to Biden. They did not specify at that point any other information on what options the GOP had or what their strategy was moving forward.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the strategy going forward is the same as the strategy has been for the last month.  Ignore the results.  Claim fraud.  Dispute the legitimacy of a Biden presidency.  Continue to rally the troops as though Trump is still president post-January 20, 2021.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the strategy going forward is the same as the strategy has been for the last month.  Ignore the results.  Claim fraud.  Dispute the legitimacy of a Biden presidency.  Continue to rally the troops as though Trump is still president post-January 20, 2021.
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I get the sense that this is just a ploy to raise more money to pay for Trump's failing businesses and massive debts, but maybe I'm just too cynical.....

 
General Malaise said:
I get the sense that this is just a ploy to raise more money to pay for Trump's failing businesses and massive debts, but maybe I'm just too cynical.....
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We should all hope that this is exactly what it is. Because if his real goal is to run again in 2024, he absolutely has the ability to continue to make everything a nightmare for everyone. The best case for our country is that it’s all about the grift and he slowly goes away over the next 6 months and we can all try to work towards some unity and normalcy.

 
GroveDiesel said:
We should all hope that this is exactly what it is. Because if his real goal is to run again in 2024, he absolutely has the ability to continue to make everything a nightmare for everyone. The best case for our country is that it’s all about the grift and he slowly goes away over the next 6 months and we can all try to work towards some unity and normalcy.
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The only way he slowly goes away is if his supporters stop sending money.  Until that happens, he will absolutely continue with a Trump 2024 campaign.

 
GroveDiesel said:
We should all hope that this is exactly what it is. Because if his real goal is to run again in 2024, he absolutely has the ability to continue to make everything a nightmare for everyone. The best case for our country is that it’s all about the grift and he slowly goes away over the next 6 months and we can all try to work towards some unity and normalcy.
Click to expand...
The problem is he can't get the cash, without delivering the disruption.

He needs the cash, thus he needs the disruption.

 
Rich Conway said:
The only way he slowly goes away is if his supporters stop sending money.  Until that happens, he will absolutely continue with a Trump 2024 campaign.
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Maybe those familiar with campaign finance law can speak to this, but I don’t think the Donald Trump For President Campaign can pay off Trump Org debts. I get it as a strategy to pay off campaign debts, including legal bills incurred by the campaign, but I don’t think he can use this to pay off DeutscheBank without committing some new shiny felony. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Maybe those familiar with campaign finance law can speak to this, but I don’t think the Donald Trump For President Campaign can pay off Trump Org debts. I get it as a strategy to pay off campaign debts, including legal bills incurred by the campaign, but I don’t think he can use this to pay off DeutscheBank without committing some new shiny felony. 
Click to expand...
And let's not forget, he may yet face felony campaign finance charges related to the Michael Cohen conviction.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Maybe those familiar with campaign finance law can speak to this, but I don’t think the Donald Trump For President Campaign can pay off Trump Org debts. I get it as a strategy to pay off campaign debts, including legal bills incurred by the campaign, but I don’t think he can use this to pay off DeutscheBank without committing some new shiny felony. 
Click to expand...
I'm no expert but I assume the campaign could pay a significant amount for rent and other services that would generate cash flow to pay the bank.  Maybe not in a lump sum but as part of a negotiated loan extension until let's say 2024.

 
Tom Hagen said:
I'm no expert but I assume the campaign could pay a significant amount for rent and other services that would generate cash flow to pay the bank.  Maybe not in a lump sum but as part of a negotiated loan extension until let's say 2024.
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Yeah, they could probably keep playing that shell game to some extent, but to the tune of $400 million?  If they’re not paying a market rent it’s supposed to be at least a violation. I think it would be hard to achieve at that scale without drawing significant scrutiny. 

 
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Reactions: JAA
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I think the most objectionable point that shader seems to make is that if the claim is truly bogus, it will be rejected and there is no harm done. I think there is harm done when the President of the United States makes absurd claims in an effort to overturn an election 

Let’s do another thought experiment. Let’s say Trump emerges next week in a military uniform, calling himself Generalissimo and calling on the military to assist in keeping him in power. Let’s be optimistic and assume the Joint Chiefs laugh in his face and the Secret Service escorts him out of office. The system holds. But is it really no harm/ no foul?
Click to expand...
I don’t recall making that claim. I can get pretty “out there” with my opinions on where Trump might take today’s reports or the dueling set of electors 

 
zoonation said:
That would have been the cherry on the sundae, but the sundae has always been the grift.  Keep the flock giving up their cash while filling their heads with magical thinking.  I mean, have you seen the emails that his supporters get calling them patriots and asking for cash?  It's embarrassing.
Click to expand...
The thing is, a very large number of those being grifted are low income, low education Americans. It’s sad.

 
Here’s what I’m seeing as the latest from Trump supporters:

From President Trump’s ....Atty. Jenna Ellis...

Today, the electoral college votes will be sealed and sent by special carrier to Washington where they will remain sealed until January 6th when the House and Senate will come into a joint session to open the votes. The media is going to make you believe that it's all over and Joe Biden is now officially president...
On January 6th, Nancy Pelosi will sit down with the rest of the House members as she has no special power or authority over the hearing... Vice President Mike Pence will have all the authority as president of the Senate for that day and will accept or reject motions to decide the next steps by the assembly.
Remember... Mike Pence is in full authority that day as written in the Constitution. The ballots will be certified today but that means nothing...
The votes will be opened and at that point one House member could, and most likely will, raise their hand to object to the Vice President on the state of elector's votes. That objection could cover fraud or any other reason, and with the seconding of that objection everything changes. Everything!!
The House and Senate will divide for two hours (at least) to debate, then vote. The vote will be per Senator with the Vice President being the deciding vote if needed in the Senate, while the vote in the House will be only be ONE vote per delegation, per state, not per House member!!! The Republicans have 30 delegation votes compared to the Democrats 20 delegation votes.
If this scenario runs true, President Trump gets re-elected.
The Democrats, the media, social networks and globalists around the world will come unhinged and chaos will erupt. Bigly.
President Trump is trying to do the right thing and go through the courts first, expose all the fraud, but we all knew that none of the courts, even the Supreme Court wanted to touch this issue with a 10-ft pole!
This is why our forefathers were so brilliant because they knew something like this could happen someday. So, don't listen to the media and all their deception and lies. All you have to do is read the Constitution and you know that the law, policies and procedures in the end are on our side.
Tic Toc... Tic Toc...
Click to expand...
 
bigbottom said:
Here’s what I’m seeing as the latest from Trump supporters:
Click to expand...
Looks like they’re in more and more trouble. Republican Senator Lamar Alexander has already released a statement saying that Biden is the next President and that it’s time for Trump to acknowledge it.

So even in this fever dream scenario, Trump wouldn’t even win the Senate vote (my bet is that there were would be quite a few Republican Senators who wouldn’t vote for Trump).

Of course, the whole thing is ridiculous anyone. I’m not bothering wasting my time, but I’m 98% sure that Ellis is talking out of her rear about the “one vote per delegation” thing.

 
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GroveDiesel said:
Looks like they’re in more and more trouble. Republican Senator Lamar Alexander has already released a statement saying that Biden is the next President and that it’s time for Trump to acknowledge it.

So even in this fever dream scenario, Trump wouldn’t even win the Senate vote (my bet is that there were would be quite a few Republican Senators who wouldn’t vote for Trump).
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Senator Bill Cassidy (R-LA) acknowledged Biden’s victory this morning. I understand there are several Republican senators who done the same, not just Alexander and Cassidy.

 
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The Z Machine said:
I sure hope so.
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It is. Anyone can read those provisions and see she is wrong. Pence is empowered to count the votes. That’s it. There’s no procedure for invalidating certified votes. And even if there were, that procedure would be different from that described when nobody has a majority or there is a tie ( when the House, and only the House, chooses the victor in a vote by delegation )

 
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Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
It is. Anyone can read those provisions and see she is wrong. Pence is empowered to count the votes. That’s it. There’s no procedure for invalidating certified votes. And even if there were, that procedure would be different from that described when nobody has a majority or there is a tie ( when the House, and only the House, chooses the victor in a vote by delegation )
Click to expand...
So, just some alternative rules. 

What happens when Pence refuses to count the votes?

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
It is. Anyone can read those provisions and see she is wrong. Pence is empowered to count the votes. That’s it. There’s no procedure for invalidating certified votes.
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The procedural stuff is in The Electoral Count Act, but I don't see where it says each state (as apposed to each Member) gets one vote in the House.

 
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The House and Senate will divide for two hours (at least) to debate, then vote. The vote will be per Senator with the Vice President being the deciding vote if needed in the Senate, while the vote in the House will be only be ONE vote per delegation, per state, not per House member!!! The Republicans have 30 delegation votes compared to the Democrats 20 delegation votes.
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I'm prettttttttty sure this isn't true.

Also -- I'm not very good at translating old-timey legalese, but it seems to me that the Electoral Act Of 1887 basically says that Congress can only reject electors if a state submitted multiple electors OR if the electors weren't certified by the deadline. And neither case is true for any states this year.

 
Sea Duck said:
I'm prettttttttty sure this isn't true.

Also -- I'm not very good at translating old-timey legalese, but it seems to me that the Electoral Act Of 1887 basically says that Congress can only reject electors if a state submitted multiple electors OR if the electors weren't certified by the deadline. And neither case is true for any states this year.
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There's a provision for rejecting single electors certified by the deadline as well. (There's a possible inconsistency about this between Section 4 and Section 5.)

Wikipedia

 
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“I understand there are people who feel strongly about the outcome of this election,” said Senate Majority Whip John Thune (R-S.D.), the second-ranking Senate Republican. “But in the end at some point you have to face the music. And I think that once the Electoral College settles the issue today, it’s time for everybody to move on.”

“There’s clearly a constitutional president-elect,” added Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.), the No. 4 GOP leader. Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio) said “the Electoral College vote today makes clear that Joe Biden is now president-elect.” Sen. Shelley Moore Capito (R-W.Va.) agreed that “it’s time to turn the page and begin a new administration.” And Sen Mike Rounds (R-S.D.) was unequivocal: “Vice President Biden is the president-elect based on the electoral count.”
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Add Portman, Capito, and Rounds to the growing list of Republican senators that have acknowledged Biden's victory.

 
Reuters, 12/14/2020:

Any effort to try to persuade Congress not to certify the Electoral College count on Jan. 6 must earn majority approval from both chambers of Congress that day. Democrats control the House of Representatives, while enough Republicans in the Senate have acknowledged Biden’s victory to ensure any challenge would almost certainly fail.
Click to expand...

 
I think the Des Moines Register might be trolling Iowa's U.S. senators a little bit. They went with this headline this evening:

Chuck Grassley, Joni Ernst acknowledge Joe Biden's Electoral College victory

So ... look at Chuck Grassley's and Joni Ernst's actual quotes:
 

Asked by reporters on Capitol Hill on Monday if it was time to acknowledge Biden as president-elect, Grassley said "I don't have to, the Constitution does."

"I follow the Constitution," Grassley said in response to a follow-up question.

Separately, Grassley provided a one-sentence statement to the Des Moines Register on Monday evening.

"The Electoral College met and voted according to our constitutional process," he said in the statement.

Asked if he acknowledges Biden as the president-elect, Grassley said "under the Constitution, that was decided by the Electoral College."

Sen. Joni Ernst, Iowa's junior Republican senator, was also asked about the Electoral College vote by reporters in Washington, D.C.

"Like it or not, I know for Iowans it's disappointing. But the process is what it is and the Constitution will be followed," she told reporters on Capitol Hill on Monday.

Asked if that means Biden is the president-elect, Ernst said, "if that's what the Electoral College decides today."
Click to expand...
Yikes. Is it really that fraught for these senators?

 
bigbottom said:
Here’s what I’m seeing as the latest from Trump supporters:
Click to expand...
Reminds of the story from 2000, when candidate Al Gore was Vice President and presided over his own controversial loss.

More than a dozen Democratic lawmakers, most of them members of the Congressional Black Caucus, formally objected to the certification of Florida’s electoral votes and walked out on the proceedings because of what Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-Texas) described as “the millions of Americans who have been disenfranchised by Florida’s inaccurate vote count.”

But because the objectors failed to recruit a single senator to join their cause, under congressional rules they were unable to open debate on the Florida controversy.

So it was left to Gore, who presided over the event in his duties as president of the Senate, to overrule their objections one by one, ensuring that Florida’s 25 electoral votes would be certified for Bush.

“Is the point of order signed by a senator?” Gore asked each of the Democrats in succession as they brought their objections.

“I don’t care that it is not signed by a senator,” answered Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Los Angeles), who was among those who walked out.

Gore quickly overruled her. “You will be advised that the rules do care,” he said.

A few minutes later, an exasperated Rep. Jesse L. Jackson Jr. (D-Ill.) told Gore, “It’s a sad day in America when we can’t find a senator to sign these objections.”

Gore said he was powerless under parliamentary rules to do anything about it.

“The chair thanks the gentleman from Illinois, but hey . . . .” He paused and shrugged his shoulders, drawing laughter from members of Congress and listeners in a chamber that appeared only half-filled.

Indeed, amid all the parliamentary procedure, Gore managed to mix in a good bit of self-effacing humor and emotion.

When one vote counter had difficulty reading a tally for a state that the vice president had won, a smiling Gore volunteered: “I’ll tell you what it says.”

And he pumped his fist in the air when California’s 54 votes were awarded to him and his running mate, Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman (D-Conn.).

Gore’s face was emotionless, however, as he called for the votes from his home state of Tennessee, which could have put him over the top. Its 11 votes went to Bush.

After the tallies for all 50 states and the District of Columbia were unsealed from two ornately carved lockboxes and read aloud, Gore announced the final results.

“George W. Bush of the state of Texas has received for the president of the United States 271 votes. Al Gore of the state of Tennessee has received 268 votes,” Gore said. 
 
Click to expand...

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Maybe those familiar with campaign finance law can speak to this, but I don’t think the Donald Trump For President Campaign can pay off Trump Org debts. I get it as a strategy to pay off campaign debts, including legal bills incurred by the campaign, but I don’t think he can use this to pay off DeutscheBank without committing some new shiny felony. 
Click to expand...
Pretty sure E Street consulting can help him figure it out. 

 
Doug B said:
I think the Des Moines Register might be trolling Iowa's U.S. senators a little bit. They went with this headline this evening:

Chuck Grassley, Joni Ernst acknowledge Joe Biden's Electoral College victory

So ... look at Chuck Grassley's and Joni Ernst's actual quotes:
 

Yikes. Is it really that fraught for these senators?
Click to expand...
One is usually loathe to invoke the name of a mid 20th Century European leader into contemporary political discussions.......but, I don't know if I've seen (not even underlings) career politicians with real ego and personal gravitas fear another politician more since then.  The Republicans....they're belly up to this man.  

 
General Malaise said:
I get the sense that this is just a ploy to raise more money to pay for Trump's failing businesses and massive debts, but maybe I'm just too cynical.....
Click to expand...
President Donald Trump couldn’t make it any clearer: He needs his supporters to fork over cash for the all-important Georgia Senate runoff elections.

“We MUST defend Georgia from the Dems!” he wrote in one recent text message. “I need YOU to secure a WIN in Georgia,” he said in another. “Help us WIN both Senate races in Georgia & STOP Socialist Dems,” he pleaded a few days later.

There’s just one hitch: Trump’s new political machine is pocketing most of the dough — and the campaigns of the Georgia senators competing in the Jan. 5 races aren’t getting a cent.

Trump’s aggressive fundraising blitz appears to be devoted to helping the party defend Georgia’s two Senate seats and, with them, the Senate majority. But the fine print shows that most of the proceeds are going toward Trump’s newly launched PAC, which he plans to use to fund his future political activities. Only a fraction is going to the Republican National Committee, which is investing $20 million into the runoffs.

 
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