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How Much Voter Fraud Happened In 2020?


Joe Bryant

How much voter fraud do you think happened in 2020?  

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1 minute ago, Milkman said:

Yeah me either but some very smart people are concerned. 270 seems out of reach for Trump but if he can muddy up the waters enough that Biden doesn't get to 270 either then he can win and it might be legal. 

There are several radical ways Trump could win but they are exceedingly unlikely. States could send more than one set of electoral delegates and have Pence throw out the result in that state. So sure, in theory Biden wouldn’t get to 270 but that would have to happen in 4 or 5 states. PA already said they won’t do that and will only award delegates to the candidate with the majority of votes. So every other state would have to go along with that. Yes, it’s technically on the books as something that could happen, but even GOP officials in these states are saying Biden won fair and square. 

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Here’s what I saw.  Names have been withheld to protect the innocent. Lol.  Mods if this isn’t cool I apologize....

That's not how this is going to play out.  Biden is ultimately going to have to provide evidence he won.

I see it like this:

1. One or more of these lawsuits will reach the SC.
2. The SC will look at the evidence and not declare Trump the winner or anything like that.  They will just read the Constitution at everyone.  They will say the Constitution clearly states that state legislatures determine how to pick electors.  The SC will also say that this overrides any state laws or procedures.  The SC will say that state legislatures are totally free to send the GOP set of electors if they want.
3. The state legislatures in key states are GOP controlled.  They will then DEMAND that Joe Biden prove there was not ballot fraud.  The state legislatures will point out that Biden himself said that he runs "the biggest voter fraud organization in history".  They will point out the irregularities and failure to comply with requests to watch the count.  They rushed thru the counting process unfairly.  Biden needs to prove he won.
4. Biden will go bonkers and fail to provide evidence.
5. The GOP state legislatures will send the GOP of electors, citing their power in the Constitution and a desire to fight election fraud.  The state legislatures will demand major ballot reform, with clear opportunities to watch the count by all parties.

ALL of this is legal and there is nothing Biden can do.

Edited by dkp993
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Just now, Capella said:

Gang - the state legislators cannot appoint their own electors without the blessing of the House. Which is run by Nancy Pelosi. There is zero chance of this happening. Log off of Facebook. 

That last sentence is just good advice anyway. The place is a dump.

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The deadline has passed for the states to declare what they will do. If they cannot reach a decision it goes to congress where both the house and the senate have to decide. Obviously the house would not go for Trump. In the event of gridlock, on 1/20 we get President Pelosi. Anybody still thinking the republicans want that to happen? 
 

There is no event where Trump is still the president on 1/21. 

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2 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Here’s what I saw.  Names have been withheld to protect the innocent. Lol.  Mods if this isn’t cool I apologize....

That's not how this is going to play out.  Biden is ultimately going to have to provide evidence he won.

I see it like this:

1. One or more of these lawsuits will reach the SC.
2. The SC will look at the evidence and not declare Trump the winner or anything like that.  They will just read the Constitution at everyone.  They will say the Constitution clearly states that state legislatures determine how to pick electors.  The SC will also say that this overrides any state laws or procedures.  The SC will say that state legislatures are totally free to send the GOP set of electors if they want.
3. The state legislatures in key states are GOP controlled.  They will then DEMAND that Joe Biden prove there was not ballot fraud.  The state legislatures will point out that Biden himself said that he runs "the biggest voter fraud organization in history".  They will point out the irregularities and failure to comply with requests to watch the count.  They rushed thru the counting process unfairly.  Biden needs to prove he won.
4. Biden will go bonkers and fail to provide evidence.
5. The GOP state legislatures will send the GOP of electors, citing their power in the Constitution and a desire to fight election fraud.  The state legislatures will demand major ballot reform, with clear opportunities to watch the count by all parties.

ALL of this is legal and there is nothing Biden can do.

This is total nonsense and not worth reading. No offense. 

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6 minutes ago, Capella said:

Gang - the state legislators cannot appoint their own electors without the blessing of the House. Which is run by Nancy Pelosi. There is zero chance of this happening. Log off of Facebook. 

And I believe if the electors have not voted by the time Trump's term ends, we will have President Pelosi being sworn in. 

ETA - Cap already covered this :)

Edited by Arsenal of Doom
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17 minutes ago, Capella said:

This is total nonsense and not worth reading. No offense. 

I’m certainly not offended, it’s not my thoughts.  It doesn’t sound like it makes sense to me but again I don’t have the knowledge to refute any of it. Which is why I posted it here. Would love to know why it’s nonsense. Thanks

Edited by dkp993
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4 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Here’s what I saw.  Names have been withheld to protect the innocent. Lol.  Mods if this isn’t cool I apologize....

That's not how this is going to play out.  Biden is ultimately going to have to provide evidence he won.

I see it like this:

1. One or more of these lawsuits will reach the SC.
2. The SC will look at the evidence and not declare Trump the winner or anything like that.  They will just read the Constitution at everyone.  They will say the Constitution clearly states that state legislatures determine how to pick electors.  The SC will also say that this overrides any state laws or procedures.  The SC will say that state legislatures are totally free to send the GOP set of electors if they want.
3. The state legislatures in key states are GOP controlled.  They will then DEMAND that Joe Biden prove there was not ballot fraud.  The state legislatures will point out that Biden himself said that he runs "the biggest voter fraud organization in history".  They will point out the irregularities and failure to comply with requests to watch the count.  They rushed thru the counting process unfairly.  Biden needs to prove he won.
4. Biden will go bonkers and fail to provide evidence.
5. The GOP state legislatures will send the GOP of electors, citing their power in the Constitution and a desire to fight election fraud.  The state legislatures will demand major ballot reform, with clear opportunities to watch the count by all parties.

ALL of this is legal and there is nothing Biden can do.

There is so much wrong with this that I don’t even know where to start. But net he biggest on is forcing someone to prove something didn’t happen. We have already seen countless times already courts toss Trump’s lawsuits out. The SCOTUS is not suddenly going to overturn the (justified) decisions of many other courts and make JB prove he won the election. He already won the election. Others will have to prove otherwise. 

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6 minutes ago, Capella said:

This is total nonsense and not worth reading. No offense. 

#3 in particular, if it happened (it wouldn’t), it would have to end up in the House and SCOTUS can’t force the house to do anything. The house would stall and Pelosi takes over 1/20 at noon.
 

Also you can’t force somebody to prove a negative. 
 

People seem to be stuck on the idea that SCOTUS can basically declare a president and they simply cannot. 

Edited by Capella
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12 minutes ago, Blinky the Three Eyed Fish said:

There is so much wrong with this that I don’t even know where to start. But net he biggest on is forcing someone to prove something didn’t happen. We have already seen countless times already courts toss Trump’s lawsuits out. The SCOTUS is not suddenly going to overturn the (justified) decisions of many other courts and make JB prove he won the election. He already won the election. Others will have to prove otherwise. 

Thanks that’s certainly what I thought too, but the part that throws me that I don’t understand was the electors standpoint and the states ability to select those which seems to be the crux of the argument.  

Edited by dkp993
See @capella’s explanation now. Makes sense.
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9 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Thanks that’s certainly what I thought too, but the part that throws me that I don’t understand was the electors standpoint and the states ability to select those which seems to be the crux of the argument.  

Yes, states determine their own method of determining electors. But not after the fact. Trump and the GOP could potentially try a lot of crazy things, but they would still have to win 4 or 5 states to win. IMO, Trump is dreaming if he thinks all his lawsuits are going to end up in the SCOTUS and they will decree that he won a second term. 

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I agree with everything that @Capella is saying in here in regards to the process. But, it is also extremely dangerous what the Republicans are doing right now. Trump manufactured this entire idea of voter fraud by mail in ballots before a single vote was counted, and he now has a majority of his followers believing his outright lies. For the first time in modern memory, we have a President who refuses to concede an election he obviously lost (2000 was a different beast entirely).  And instead of reeling him in, or abandoning ship, we have sitting Senators saying the only way Democrats win is by cheating. This is unprecedented and dangerous, regardless of whether they will actually prove any of their spurious allegations.

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21 minutes ago, Capella said:
27 minutes ago, Capella said:

This is total nonsense and not worth reading. No offense. 

#3 in particular, if it happened (it wouldn’t), it would have to end up in the House and SCOTUS can’t force the house to do anything. The house would stall and Pelosi takes over 1/20 at noon.

I don't think this is necessarily the case. The House might argue over Presidential electors, but that wouldn't stop the Senate from voting for Vice President.

And once they vote for Pence, then Pence would be the one who became President on 1/20.

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32 minutes ago, Joe Summer said:

I don't think this is necessarily the case. The House might argue over Presidential electors, but that wouldn't stop the Senate from voting for Vice President.

And once they vote for Pence, then Pence would be the one who became President on 1/20.

I believe that is for a contingent election, not faithless electors. What I’m speaking of is if the states don’t propose Biden, the house stalls. 

Edited by Capella
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10 minutes ago, Milkman said:

I thought each state got one vote in the house and even though the Democrats have a majority the Republicans control more state votes?

Two different things. If the states want to change how they vote after the fact they need the house approval. 

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1 hour ago, Kilgore Trout said:

I agree with everything that @Capella is saying in here in regards to the process. But, it is also extremely dangerous what the Republicans are doing right now. Trump manufactured this entire idea of voter fraud by mail in ballots before a single vote was counted, and he now has a majority of his followers believing his outright lies. For the first time in modern memory, we have a President who refuses to concede an election he obviously lost (2000 was a different beast entirely).  And instead of reeling him in, or abandoning ship, we have sitting Senators saying the only way Democrats win is by cheating. This is unprecedented and dangerous, regardless of whether they will actually prove any of their spurious allegations.

It’s definitely horrible, no matter how it turns out. 

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1 hour ago, Kilgore Trout said:

I agree with everything that @Capella is saying in here in regards to the process. But, it is also extremely dangerous what the Republicans are doing right now. Trump manufactured this entire idea of voter fraud by mail in ballots before a single vote was counted, and he now has a majority of his followers believing his outright lies. For the first time in modern memory, we have a President who refuses to concede an election he obviously lost (2000 was a different beast entirely).  And instead of reeling him in, or abandoning ship, we have sitting Senators saying the only way Democrats win is by cheating. This is unprecedented and dangerous, regardless of whether they will actually prove any of their spurious allegations.

But if there is indeed election fraud, should we not find out about it, no matter the outcome?

I mean there are some pretty odd things that went down, and Im pretty sure there's a hatred for Trump that's strong enough for some, that breaking the rules is not out of the question.........that, imo, is also very scary

Edited by Manster
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1 minute ago, Manster said:

But if there is indeed election fraud, should we not find out about it, no matter the outcome?

I mean there are some pretty odd things that went down, and Im pretty sure there's a hatred for Trump that's strong enough for some, that breaking the rules is not out of the question.........that, imo, is also very scary

Every "odd" thing I have read about has been debunked. It is also not odd that Trump lost this election. His approval rating was hovering around 44% and all the polls suggested he was going to lose. He actually outperformed. But of course he has already said the polls are in the democrats pocket too, so that probably doesn't matter anyway. When you live in a world of conjecture and conspiracy theories, anything becomes possible.

And yes, of course, if there is evidence of election fraud we should pursue it. But so far, none of the lawsuits or allegations have shown any actual proof of widespread election fraud.

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1 hour ago, dkp993 said:

Here’s what I saw.  Names have been withheld to protect the innocent. Lol.  Mods if this isn’t cool I apologize....

That's not how this is going to play out.  Biden is ultimately going to have to provide evidence he won.

I see it like this:1. One or more of these lawsuits will reach the SC.
2. The SC will look at the evidence and not declare Trump the winner or anything like that.  They will just read the Constitution at everyone.  They will say the Constitution clearly states that state legislatures determine how to pick electors <Correct -- the state legislatures have already determined this in the past via passing state law>.  The SC will also say that this overrides any state laws or procedures <Incorrect -- this and the sentence before are contradictory. Existing state laws and procedures establish how the legislature determines electors>.  The SC will say that state legislatures are totally free to send the GOP set of electors if they want <It's not anything in the Constitution that constrains state legislatures here -- it's the state legislatures' own existing laws and procedures that are determinative>.

(My comments in red)

Quote

3. The state legislatures in key states are GOP controlled.  They will then DEMAND that Joe Biden prove there was not ballot fraud <Illogical. No proving a negative.>.  The state legislatures will point out that Biden himself said that he runs "the biggest voter fraud organization in history" <What?  Cite?>.  They will point out the irregularities and failure to comply with requests to watch the count.  They rushed thru the counting process unfairly.  Biden needs to prove he won <Biden nor his campaign administer the various state elections in any manner -- he won't have to prove anything regarding vote counts>.
4. Biden will go bonkers and fail to provide evidence <'Go bonkers'? A sober treatment of the subject would aim the level of discourse a little higher>.
5. The GOP state legislatures will send the GOP of electors, citing their power in the Constitution and a desire to fight election fraud.  The state legislatures will demand major ballot reform, with clear opportunities to watch the count by all parties <This 'clear opportunities' part ... they already exists>.

 

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On 11/7/2020 at 10:25 PM, NorvilleBarnes said:

https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1325268253241913346

James O'Keefe

@JamesOKeefeIII

BREAKING: Here is the signed affidavit from Erie, Pennsylvania

@USPS

Whistleblower Richard Hopkins that is now in the hands of Sen. Lindsey Graham and the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Hard to believe a James O'Keefe thing did not hold up under the slightest amount of scrutiny. From the Oversight Committee.

BREAKING NEWS: Erie, Pa. #USPS whistleblower completely RECANTED his allegations of a supervisor tampering with mail-in ballots after being questioned by investigators, according to IG. THREAD:

Here are the facts: Richard Hopkins is a USPS employee in Erie, Pa. He signed a sworn affidavit with allegations of ballot tampering/fraud and went public through Project Veritas. #USPS IG began investigating last week.

#USPS IG investigators informed Committee staff today that they interviewed Hopkins on Friday, but that Hopkins RECANTED HIS ALLEGATIONS yesterday and did not explain why he signed a false affidavit.

 

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1 hour ago, Manster said:

But if there is indeed election fraud, should we not find out about it, no matter the outcome?

I mean there are some pretty odd things that went down, and Im pretty sure there's a hatred for Trump that's strong enough for some, that breaking the rules is not out of the question.........that, imo, is also very scary

Can you please break down and list the "odd things that went down"?

ETA -- I plan on looking up everything you list to get an accurate account of what happened as an FYI.

Edited by gianmarco
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19 minutes ago, Don Quixote said:

Hard to believe a James O'Keefe thing did not hold up under the slightest amount of scrutiny. From the Oversight Committee.

BREAKING NEWS: Erie, Pa. #USPS whistleblower completely RECANTED his allegations of a supervisor tampering with mail-in ballots after being questioned by investigators, according to IG. THREAD:

Here are the facts: Richard Hopkins is a USPS employee in Erie, Pa. He signed a sworn affidavit with allegations of ballot tampering/fraud and went public through Project Veritas. #USPS IG began investigating last week.

#USPS IG investigators informed Committee staff today that they interviewed Hopkins on Friday, but that Hopkins RECANTED HIS ALLEGATIONS yesterday and did not explain why he signed a false affidavit.

 

Lying rarely stands up to the truth. 

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33 minutes ago, Don Quixote said:

Hard to believe a James O'Keefe thing did not hold up under the slightest amount of scrutiny. From the Oversight Committee.

BREAKING NEWS: Erie, Pa. #USPS whistleblower completely RECANTED his allegations of a supervisor tampering with mail-in ballots after being questioned by investigators, according to IG. THREAD:

Here are the facts: Richard Hopkins is a USPS employee in Erie, Pa. He signed a sworn affidavit with allegations of ballot tampering/fraud and went public through Project Veritas. #USPS IG began investigating last week.

#USPS IG investigators informed Committee staff today that they interviewed Hopkins on Friday, but that Hopkins RECANTED HIS ALLEGATIONS yesterday and did not explain why he signed a false affidavit.

 

I'd like to say I'm surprised, but I'm not.

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1 hour ago, Don Quixote said:

Hard to believe a James O'Keefe thing did not hold up under the slightest amount of scrutiny. From the Oversight Committee.

BREAKING NEWS: Erie, Pa. #USPS whistleblower completely RECANTED his allegations of a supervisor tampering with mail-in ballots after being questioned by investigators, according to IG. THREAD:

Here are the facts: Richard Hopkins is a USPS employee in Erie, Pa. He signed a sworn affidavit with allegations of ballot tampering/fraud and went public through Project Veritas. #USPS IG began investigating last week.

#USPS IG investigators informed Committee staff today that they interviewed Hopkins on Friday, but that Hopkins RECANTED HIS ALLEGATIONS yesterday and did not explain why he signed a false affidavit.

 

And yet, those who presented this as “evidence “ will just move on to the next bogus claim and act as if this never happened.

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7 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

And yet, those who presented this as “evidence “ will just move on to the next bogus claim and act as if this never happened.

Project veritas guy has responded:

 

James O'Keefe

@JamesOKeefeIII

In 15 mins USPS Hopkins to release recordings of fed agents coercing him & violating his rights. He tried contact WaPo reporters

@ShawnBoburg

and

@jacobbogage

to include his statement that HE DID NOT RECANT They refuse to even talk to him or include his comment. Tapes imminent

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Just now, shader said:

Project veritas guy has responded:

 

James O'Keefe

@JamesOKeefeIII

In 15 mins USPS Hopkins to release recordings of fed agents coercing him & violating his rights. He tried contact WaPo reporters

@ShawnBoburg

and

@jacobbogage

to include his statement that HE DID NOT RECANT They refuse to even talk to him or include his comment. Tapes imminent

Im sure it will be just as Okeefe says.  There is a reason they are trying to “litigate” this through Hannity and Project Veritas...because none of it passes the smell test or holds up to any legal proceeding.

Their only hope is in changing public opinion and raising money (some of which seems to be going to pay down campaign debt)...and it is becoming more and more dangerous by the day.

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32 minutes ago, shader said:

Project veritas guy has responded:

 

James O'Keefe

@JamesOKeefeIII

In 15 mins USPS Hopkins to release recordings of fed agents coercing him & violating his rights. He tried contact WaPo reporters

@ShawnBoburg

and

@jacobbogage

to include his statement that HE DID NOT RECANT They refuse to even talk to him or include his comment. Tapes imminent

It should be noted that if an organization has some form or translation of the word "truth" in its name, they're probably not telling it very often.

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52 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Im sure it will be just as Okeefe says.  There is a reason they are trying to “litigate” this through Hannity and Project Veritas...because none of it passes the smell test or holds up to any legal proceeding.

Their only hope is in changing public opinion and raising money (some of which seems to be going to pay down campaign debt)...and it is becoming more and more dangerous by the day.

The guy is now allegedly on video saying he didn’t recant.
 

Edited by shader
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1 hour ago, sho nuff said:

And yet, those who presented this as “evidence “ will just move on to the next bogus claim and act as if this never happened.

Yes but that's where I don't understand. It's like they forget that all these conspiracy theories are wrong close to 100% of the time. Why can't they connect those dots?

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4 hours ago, Capella said:

#3 in particular, if it happened (it wouldn’t), it would have to end up in the House and SCOTUS can’t force the house to do anything. The house would stall and Pelosi takes over 1/20 at noon.
 

Also you can’t force somebody to prove a negative. 
 

People seem to be stuck on the idea that SCOTUS can basically declare a president and they simply cannot. 

My only question is: since the Russians now own all of our uranium, can’t they simply force the Supreme Court to make Trump president? 

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1 hour ago, sho nuff said:

Im sure it will be just as Okeefe says.  There is a reason they are trying to “litigate” this through Hannity and Project Veritas...because none of it passes the smell test or holds up to any legal proceeding.

Their only hope is in changing public opinion and raising money  (some of which seems to be going to pay down campaign debt)...and it is becoming more and more dangerous by the day.

Dude the emails are constant, matching the most I’ve received any one day (even during the height of the election.) I’m getting one every 20 minutes or so: 

“Defend my victory!” 
“Stop the Democrats from stealing the election!” 
“I need your help Tim! Only you and I can protect our democracy!” 

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1 hour ago, shader said:

Project veritas guy has responded:

 

James O'Keefe

@JamesOKeefeIII

In 15 mins USPS Hopkins to release recordings of fed agents coercing him & violating his rights. He tried contact WaPo reporters

@ShawnBoburg

and

@jacobbogage

to include his statement that HE DID NOT RECANT They refuse to even talk to him or include his comment. Tapes imminent

Did he release these recordings? 

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13 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

Did he release these recordings? 

From what I’ve seen it’s only about 10 seconds of clips where the investigator says he’s going to put some stress and pressure on him to make sure he is telling the accurate account of what happened. They are saying it’s proof he was threatened and scared. The USPS guy is saying he didn’t recant and we will find out more tomorrow. They also are using the phrase he “watered down” his story but did not recant.

Edited by Ilov80s
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