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How Much Voter Fraud Happened In 2020?


How much voter fraud do you think happened in 2020?  

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Brad Heath Retweeted Lawrence Hurley @lawrencehurley BREAKING: Supreme Court rejects Texas-led effort to toss out election results in four key states that Biden won 6:31 PM · Dec 1

Here's the problem with that position (from my point of view, and I venture to guess the point of view of everyone that is not a supporter of Donald Trump and/or the GOP currently) (and I truly don't

There were no Tesla counties for Edison to rename. 

13 hours ago, AAABatteries said:

"But we only lost the state by that number, 11,000 votes, and 779.”

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

This phone call Trump made reminds me of Frank Grimes (his friends called him Grimey) when trying to show what a buffoon Homer was and accidentally electrocutes himself. 

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4 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I’m not a Fox News fan at all but even they aren’t at this level. I’m not even sure OAN or Newsmax would run this kind of story. 

Take another look at their "clarification" of their reports on the Dominion/Venezuela conspiracy. "We didn't say it was true, we just reported it as though it was so people could consider it...until Dominion threatened to sue us."

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19 minutes ago, apalmer said:

Take another look at their "clarification" of their reports on the Dominion/Venezuela conspiracy. "We didn't say it was true, we just reported it as though it was so people could consider it...until Dominion threatened to sue us."

Fair, that’s certainly an approach we see. Not sure they would run a story saying Justice Roberts raped and murdered a child though.

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The reason I've been talking about this "VP reject electors" scenario is because the right has been talking about it for weeks.  I still don't know if Pence will do it, and I suspect he won't. I imagine the democrats have a plan for what they will do tomorrow if he does.....but this is kind of unchartered territory, if it happens.

I think this is Trump trying to pressure Pence and creating a fall guy if Pence does what most expect him to do and just counts the votes.  Trump can slink away, claim he was betrayed by his party and build his own party or his own network. 

 

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13 minutes ago, shader said:

The reason I've been talking about this "VP reject electors" scenario is because the right has been talking about it for weeks.  I still don't know if Pence will do it, and I suspect he won't. I imagine the democrats have a plan for what they will do tomorrow if he does.....but this is kind of unchartered territory, if it happens.

I think this is Trump trying to pressure Pence and creating a fall guy if Pence does what most expect him to do and just counts the votes.  Trump can slink away, claim he was betrayed by his party and build his own party or his own network. 

 

There is an entire fall-country at this point.  I mean, how many people, groups, parties, states, etc has POTUS blamed for this?

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4 minutes ago, JAA said:

There is an entire fall-country at this point.  I mean, how many people, groups, parties, states, etc has POTUS blamed for this?

You'd think that if this many people are conspiring against him (the media, RINOs, every court in the US, pollsters, Pence, McConnell, etc, etc, etc), including committing multiple felonies and risking life in jail for it, there's some chance that less than 50% of the country actually voted against him for president.

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6 minutes ago, JAA said:

There is an entire fall-country at this point.  I mean, how many people, groups, parties, states, etc has POTUS blamed for this?

Georgia republicans, China, libs, antifa, Pence, supreme court, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Arizona, the FBI, election judges, BLM, Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, republican senators, Pelosi, god,. etc...

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26 minutes ago, shader said:

The reason I've been talking about this "VP reject electors" scenario is because the right has been talking about it for weeks.  I still don't know if Pence will do it, and I suspect he won't. I imagine the democrats have a plan for what they will do tomorrow if he does.....but this is kind of unchartered territory, if it happens.

I think this is Trump trying to pressure Pence and creating a fall guy if Pence does what most expect him to do and just counts the votes.  Trump can slink away, claim he was betrayed by his party and build his own party or his own network. 

 

It’s amazing that anyone listens to Trump anymore.  He’s been a con man his entire life, but never more than post-election.

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1 minute ago, The Z Machine said:

Eh.... Trump University?  Trump Steaks?

:goodposting:

Nothing's changed except the size of the audience. Turns out there are a heck of a lot of credulous people in this nation.

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1 minute ago, The Z Machine said:

Eh.... Trump University?  Trump Steaks?

I mean the dude literally invented a publicist alter ego so he could call Page Six and plant rumors about him dating hot babes.  The consequences may be higher, but the behavior has been pretty consistent. 

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Just now, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

I mean the dude literally invented a publicist alter ego so he could call Page Six and plant rumors about him dating hot babes.  The consequences may be higher, but the behavior has been pretty consistent. 

That’s my favorite con man stuff.  I mean, we elected a guy who created a fake publicist - which was actually himself calling into radio shows.  Wtf?

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49 minutes ago, shader said:

The reason I've been talking about this "VP reject electors" scenario is because the right has been talking about it for weeks.  I still don't know if Pence will do it, and I suspect he won't. I imagine the democrats have a plan for what they will do tomorrow if he does.....but this is kind of unchartered territory, if it happens.

I think this is Trump trying to pressure Pence and creating a fall guy if Pence does what most expect him to do and just counts the votes.  Trump can slink away, claim he was betrayed by his party and build his own party or his own network. 

 

Despite Trump's words...he does not have that power.  And Trump saying he does is a great indication of that.

That is what the Gohmert suit was about...that the DOJ on behalf of Pence argued against and won.  Federal judge tossed Gohmert's suit.

 

Edited by sho nuff
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18 minutes ago, shader said:

The reason I've been talking about this "VP reject electors" scenario is because the right has been talking about it for weeks.  I still don't know if Pence will do it, and I suspect he won't. I imagine the democrats have a plan for what they will do tomorrow if he does.....but this is kind of unchartered territory, if it happens.

The saddest part about this paragraph is that it doesn't even assume that Republicans would object.

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22 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

The saddest part about this paragraph is that it doesn't even assume that Republicans would object.

You know that they wouldn't.  Only a small handful of times have any Republicans gone against Trump in a vote.

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16 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

You know that they wouldn't.  Only a small handful of times have any Republicans gone against Trump in a vote.

Seems to me that many Republican Senators, even loyalists like Cotton and leaders like McConnell and Thune are already on the record as objecting and indicating they will vote to certify. 
 

 

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51 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

The saddest part about this paragraph is that it doesn't even assume that Republicans would object.

Plenty will object and are on record as stating such.

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1 hour ago, shader said:

The reason I've been talking about this "VP reject electors" scenario is because the right has been talking about it for weeks.  I still don't know if Pence will do it, and I suspect he won't. I imagine the democrats have a plan for what they will do tomorrow if he does.....but this is kind of unchartered territory, if it happens.

I think this is Trump trying to pressure Pence and creating a fall guy if Pence does what most expect him to do and just counts the votes.  Trump can slink away, claim he was betrayed by his party and build his own party or his own network. 

 

At this point nothing Pence has said or done indicates he’s on Trumps side with this issue. He’s avoided any attempt at playing into Trumps fantasies. 

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13 minutes ago, shader said:
1 hour ago, Sea Duck said:

The saddest part about this paragraph is that it doesn't even assume that Republicans would object.

Plenty will object and are on record as stating such.

I was referring to the idea of Republicans objecting to Pence attempting to unilaterally reject electoral votes. No Republicans have gone on the record regarding that scenario, as far as I know.

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8 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

At this point nothing Pence has said or done indicates he’s on Trumps side with this issue. He’s avoided any attempt at playing into Trumps fantasies. 

At this point I'm much more concerned with what's going to happen during the "wild" protests. The DC mayor has called in the National Guard and 10 former military leaders (bipartisan) have signed a letter that said in part that any military involvement by the president would be dangerous.

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1 hour ago, Gr00vus said:

:goodposting:

Nothing's changed except the size of the audience. Turns out there are a heck of a lot of credulous people in this nation.

You KNOW this has to be eating at him...how he was never able to tap into this sort of person in his failed business attempts is probably beyond him.

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18 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

At this point nothing Pence has said or done indicates he’s on Trumps side with this issue. He’s avoided any attempt at playing into Trumps fantasies. 

Pence has been a loyal underling for 4 years.  He's in quite an awkward spot now.  He even made a speech last night about "wait until you see what happens Wednesday", which would lend itself to the idea that he's considering this route.  But I personally think he's referring to the objections that the republicans in house/senate will make, and the "evidence" that he is claiming will be presented at that time.  He's 100% in Trump's corner that the "election was stolen" and that he's going to keep fighting.  But he's never alluded to the fact that he will reject electors.  OF course, Trump never really has admitted that either until today.

 

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22 minutes ago, The Commish said:

You KNOW this has to be eating at him...how he was never able to tap into this sort of person in his failed business attempts is probably beyond him.

It was the clientle.  He was new money trying to court old, high money.  By and large, those people can smell B.S.

The people he is courting now, they see him and they see the man that they would be if they ever got money.  

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24 minutes ago, shader said:

Pence has been a loyal underling for 4 years.  He's in quite an awkward spot now.  He even made a speech last night about "wait until you see what happens Wednesday", which would lend itself to the idea that he's considering this route.  But I personally think he's referring to the objections that the republicans in house/senate will make, and the "evidence" that he is claiming will be presented at that time.  He's 100% in Trump's corner that the "election was stolen" and that he's going to keep fighting.  But he's never alluded to the fact that he will reject electors.  OF course, Trump never really has admitted that either until today.

 

Maybe I missed it. I didn’t recall hearing him saying the election was stolen 

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33 minutes ago, The Commish said:

You KNOW this has to be eating at him...how he was never able to tap into this sort of person in his failed business attempts is probably beyond him.

He kinda did with Trump U, but wasn't capable enough to keep the scam running as a going concern.

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Though Pence is smarter and more controlled than Trump so if he was planning a move, he’s more likely to have kept it under wraps.

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37 minutes ago, The Commish said:

You KNOW this has to be eating at him...how he was never able to tap into this sort of person in his failed business attempts is probably beyond him.

He always tried to be luxury, maybe he’s seeing his appeal was better with working class people. He had the wrong market? Also he’s great with anger and fear. That doesn’t sell hotel suites or fill a casino. He should have been selling home security systems, guns, etc.

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3 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

He always tried to be luxury, maybe he’s seeing his appeal was better with working class people. He had the wrong market? Also he’s great with anger and fear. That doesn’t sell hotel suites or fill a casino. He should have been selling home security systems, guns, etc.

But Sexy does sell wine!

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18 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Maybe I missed it. I didn’t recall hearing him saying the election was stolen 

Yeah I think you're right, apparently he hasn't said that.  I did see that he said 

“I know we all got our doubts about the last election…I promise you…we’ll have our day in Congress.”

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14 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

He always tried to be luxury, maybe he’s seeing his appeal was better with working class people. He had the wrong market? Also he’s great with anger and fear. That doesn’t sell hotel suites or fill a casino. He should have been selling home security systems, guns, etc.

 

Class. Luxury.

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1 hour ago, Amused to Death said:

At this point I'm much more concerned with what's going to happen during the "wild" protests. The DC mayor has called in the National Guard and 10 former military leaders (bipartisan) have signed a letter that said in part that any military involvement by the president would be dangerous.

Agreed...and a large large contingent are going to be quite disappointed when the electoral votes are read and its is again confirmed that Biden will be President in 2 weeks.

Hey...2 weeks...where have we heard it before...this time something will actually happen in 2 weeks.

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43 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Though Pence is smarter and more controlled than Trump so if he was planning a move, he’s more likely to have kept it under wraps.

There's another way Pence can go with this (not saying he will), but he knows enough by now of what went on in this admin to be able to say, look Donald, the jig is up, I've got nothing more to gain from holding your water, I'm certifying this election because there is no plausible reason not to, and don't #### with me or I'll start telling people where the bodies are buried. He'd only do this if he's determined that Trump's usefulness to him is over - which is entirely possible. Certifying the election makes him a less odious politician to the non-Trump cult world, so there's something to be gained.

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28 minutes ago, shader said:

Yeah I think you're right, apparently he hasn't said that.  I did see that he said 

“I know we all got our doubts about the last election…I promise you…we’ll have our day in Congress.”

... because their days in court didn't go anywhere

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3 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

There's another way Pence can go with this (not saying he will), but he knows enough by now of what went on in this admin to be able to say, look Donald, the jig is up, I've got nothing more to gain from holding your water, I'm certifying this election because there is no plausible reason not to, and don't #### with me or I'll start telling people where the bodies are buried. He'd only do this if he's determined that Trump's usefulness to him is over - which is entirely possible. Certifying the election makes him a less odious politician to the non-Trump cult world, so there's something to be gained.

I don't even think Pence can do this.  If there are no objections he has to read the electoral votes. If there are objections he'll adjourn to allow the senate and/or congress hear arguments... and then he'll read the electoral votes. 

He isn't much more than Vanna White.

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Just now, Godsbrother said:

I don't even think Pence can do this.  If there are no objections he has to read the electoral votes. If there are objections he'll adjourn to allow the senate and/or congress here arguments, and then he'll read the electoral votes.  He isn't much more than Vanna White.

Certifying was a poor word choice on my part. I probably should have gone with something like "not making a scene".

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6 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

There's another way Pence can go with this (not saying he will), but he knows enough by now of what went on in this admin to be able to say, look Donald, the jig is up, I've got nothing more to gain from holding your water, I'm certifying this election because there is no plausible reason not to, and don't #### with me or I'll start telling people where the bodies are buried. He'd only do this if he's determined that Trump's usefulness to him is over - which is entirely possible. Certifying the election makes him a less odious politician to the non-Trump cult world, so there's something to be gained.

Yeah my guess is he certifies it without any comment. That’s how he’s operated so far. He doesn’t really do Trumps bidding or get involved in Trumps weird personal vendettas. However, he also doesn’t contradict Trump or speak out against him. He just exists and goes about his business generally pretending Trump doesn’t exist. 

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2 hours ago, The Commish said:

You KNOW this has to be eating at him...how he was never able to tap into this sort of person in his failed business attempts is probably beyond him.

They were never his target audience when he was trying to build his empire.  He wanted to be in the elite upper east side scene in NYC, but was never accepted.  He branded his products to the upper-middle class/rich.

Why makes his appeal to his current followers all the more difficult to understand.  

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9 minutes ago, zoonation said:

They were never his target audience when he was trying to build his empire.  He wanted to be in the elite upper east side scene in NYC, but was never accepted.  He branded his products to the upper-middle class/rich.

Why makes his appeal to his current followers all the more difficult to understand.  

This always puzzled me.  I would expect the average Joe to not identify with a person with Donald's Trump background (born rich,  never had a real job, draft dodger, womanizer, adulterer) but they do.

 

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1 minute ago, Godsbrother said:

This always puzzled me.  I would expect the average Joe to not identify with a person with Donald's Trump background (born rich,  never had a real job, draft dodger, womanizer, adulterer) but they do.

Living the life they all want.

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23 minutes ago, zoonation said:

They were never his target audience when he was trying to build his empire.  He wanted to be in the elite upper east side scene in NYC, but was never accepted.  He branded his products to the upper-middle class/rich.

Why makes his appeal to his current followers all the more difficult to understand.  

I liked the summary given before.  That his current followers see him as they'd see themselves in the same position.  Sums it up perfectly for a good many....most I'd say.

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5 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Living the life they all want.

Maybe.  My guess is that they are sick of tree-huggers, foreigners, gays, Muslims, and other minorities becoming more outspoken and having more influence on US policy.  They don't like it and Trump has picked up on that and says what they want to hear and acts accordingly.

ETA: Someone else could have come along and done the same but Trump has been a master at it.

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5 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

This always puzzled me.  I would expect the average Joe to not identify with a person with Donald's Trump background (born rich,  never had a real job, draft dodger, womanizer, adulterer) but they do.

 

He’s the poor person’s idea of a billionaire. Someone who flaunts their wealth and uses it abuse the rules and norms of society.

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

Yeah my guess is he certifies it without any comment. That’s how he’s operated so far. He doesn’t really do Trumps bidding or get involved in Trumps weird personal vendettas. However, he also doesn’t contradict Trump or speak out against him. He just exists and goes about his business generally pretending Trump doesn’t exist. 

I have nothing to go on other than a hunch, but my hunch is that Pence is sick of Trump and ready to be over all of this. Pence seems like a more rational person, and being tied to Trump through all of the craziness has to be exhausting. and since Trump doesn't do anything that doesn't glorify Trump, I can't imagine him as being an encouraging and empowering presence behind the scenes. ever since that fly landed on Pence's head in the debate, which Trump's ego would be disgusted by and see as a yuge personal embarrassment, I can't even recall them being seen together...maybe for more than a minute or two. Pence is probably sick of just being a lackey, and ready to move on to the next thing.

again, this is just my hunch.

Edited by Maik Jeaunz
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4 minutes ago, Maik Jeaunz said:

I have nothing to go on other than a hunch, but my hunch is that Pence is sick of Trump and ready to be over all of this. Pence seems like a more rational person, and being tied to Trump through all of the craziness has to be exhausting. and since Trump doesn't do anything that doesn't glorify Trump, I can't imagine him as being an encouraging and empowering presence behind the scenes. ever since that fly landed on Pence's head in the debate, which Trump's ego would be disgusted by and see as a yuge personal embarrassment, I can't even recall them being see together...maybe for more than a minute or two. Pence is probably sick of just being a lackey, and ready to move on to the next thing.

again, this is just my hunch.

I mostly agree. I doubt ever wanted anything to do with Pence but his team said they needed Pence to appease the evangelicals. 

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