Values of Honor
Footballguy
Dump the Evangelicals, dump the abortion and the gay marriage nonsense.
America is culturally leftist.
This is not the 1980s.
America is culturally leftist.
This is not the 1980s.
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The GOP needs to drop the abortion and gay marriage issue (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Values of Honor
- Start date
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I know many people who just vote R because of abortion and guns. Don't care about much else when asked about it.
Yes. In these parts with many of my Christian friends its the Republicans vs the baby killers and the gun issue as well.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
I think the new Supreme Court is going to drop the issue for them......at least on a national scale.
Values of Honor
Footballguy
Manster
Footballguy
GROOT
Footballguy
Senate outcome says differently. And BTW gay marriage is forbidden in other religions too, including Islam
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I think murder is a big deal to just about everybody.
The disconnect that I don't understand is I am guessing there is a really big overlap of people fighting for government being allowed to make that decision for people, but fighting for the government to stay away from telling them to wear masks or stay away from others. To me that is either backwards or at least inconsistent.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Cmon Mods. Throw us a bone. Who is this guy?
Man In The Box
Footballguy
I don’t know if it’s this extreme, but you’re definitely in the ball park. Does anyone really believe a ton of conservative Christians voted for Trump because they like him? Twice? No, they’re pro-life and love their guns.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
What I was going to ask was is gay marriage that much of an issue anymore. Most I come across is these two main voting issues.
Man In The Box
Footballguy
It’s still an issue, but those are the big two. At least in my experience with conservatives.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I agree, but it won't happen in regards to abortion. The GOP won't let go of that fight time soon.
Some of the fringe might still put up a fight about gay marriage, but that is done and over with, as it should be.
Some of the fringe might still put up a fight about gay marriage, but that is done and over with, as it should be.
GROOT
Footballguy
Values of Honor
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
dgreen
Footballguy
These are two very different issues. I don't think opposing same sex marriage is a big winner for anyone. I think that abortion is a true wedge issue and I can understand why Republicans oppose it. I support women's right to chose but I can understand people that support banning abortion. It is a very tough moral dilemma imo.
TheMagus
Footballguy
I actually don't think he did. Those numbers that have been floating around are based on exit polling and are likely flawed due to the pandemic - people in general who voted in person were more likely to vote for Trump.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I dunno, seems like those people are frighteningly consistent.
They have always been desperately concerned for unborn people, but once they are born small things like access to education, access to healthcare, and just about any other social program that could lead to a better life needs to be cut back or eliminated. It really comes down to being very, very concerned about the morals of others RIGHT UP to the point you have to spend a cent or put on a mask and socially distance to help others. Just think of trump super spreader events and how many of those folks were "pro-life".
krista4
Footballguy
I agree with this 100%. Although adamantly pro-choice, I understand the moral quandary of those who aren't and don't fault them at all for having a different viewpoint. To be opposed to marriage equality, however, seems fundamentally different and merely in favor of discrimination based on a religious POV that is at odds with our freedom-of-religion, or worse just based on "icky feelings."
E Street Brat
Footballguy
Goverment needs to get out of the marriage business.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Expand this topic out to candidates like the ones that Trump walked right over on stage in 2015/2016
I really don't know where the GOP turns for a National Candidate plus they are torn apart by the Media before they ever announce they are running and are painted typically in a very unfavorable light.
Wife and I are pro-Choice but CHOOSE not to abort, can't make that any clearer to folks how there is room for both under this umbrella. You can still be a strong Conservative, you can still wish for the better treatment of women across the boards in these abortion clinics where I feel the mental health of the experience is severely lacking. Without emotions always attached I think it's positive for women to see every opportunity available to them when they are first pregnant and considering long term health. We also support women who have thought a lot about it and just choose that it's not their time to bring a child into this World, everyone has a different situation.
Again though, this topic needs to be removed, agreed. The Supreme Court has had a Right leaning majority for the last 40-50 years at least and have never overturned Roe v. Wade so I think this topic is pretty dead.
I wish the GOP would take some of what Trump speaks about and not be quite so harsh.
My biggest question or when I try and make connections is the stark difference in the urban cities where I have lived most of my life to the rural areas which is 80-90% of the country. Someone has to figure out a way to make these folks feel a little more connected.
I really don't know where the GOP turns for a National Candidate plus they are torn apart by the Media before they ever announce they are running and are painted typically in a very unfavorable light.
Wife and I are pro-Choice but CHOOSE not to abort, can't make that any clearer to folks how there is room for both under this umbrella. You can still be a strong Conservative, you can still wish for the better treatment of women across the boards in these abortion clinics where I feel the mental health of the experience is severely lacking. Without emotions always attached I think it's positive for women to see every opportunity available to them when they are first pregnant and considering long term health. We also support women who have thought a lot about it and just choose that it's not their time to bring a child into this World, everyone has a different situation.
Again though, this topic needs to be removed, agreed. The Supreme Court has had a Right leaning majority for the last 40-50 years at least and have never overturned Roe v. Wade so I think this topic is pretty dead.
I wish the GOP would take some of what Trump speaks about and not be quite so harsh.
My biggest question or when I try and make connections is the stark difference in the urban cities where I have lived most of my life to the rural areas which is 80-90% of the country. Someone has to figure out a way to make these folks feel a little more connected.
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JAA
Footballguy
Please don’t make the same mistake Obama did. The DNC cannot take a perceived moral high ground and leave ~45% of the population behind. If they do we will get another Trump.
JAA
Footballguy
I think it’s easy. Look at Alabama, how many Abortion clinics are there in the state? This topic can be managed at the state level without touching federal law.
bigbottom
Footballguy
If the current Supreme Court overturns its prior ruling on gay marriage, Republicans will pay a huge price in subsequent elections.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I think there's something close to a zero percent chance of that happening. It's very difficult to imagine Gorsuch and Roberts signing on such a decision. (And who really knows about either Kavanaugh or Barrett).
Agreed.
We've quoted it a ton here but this is still essay ironically (or not) from cracked.com is one of the best illustrations of the Trump voter I've seen.
How we handle these folks will be the difference I think in how it goes forward. Although my expectation is most people won't agree.
To add, sorry for getting off topic. This thread was meant to be what the GOP needs to change and my post had nothing to do with that. I'll put this in another thread.
For what it's worth, I know a ton of Christians and I see zero interest from them in wanting to change the gay marriage laws. And I think almost all of them see Roe vs Wade as not changing in the next 20 years.
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bigbottom
Footballguy
Re gay marriage, I agree. I think it’s been largely accepted, embraced even, by a significant number of Christians, including evangelicals. I’m honestly shuked whenever it comes up as a topic of debate. It feels akin to debating whether women should be able to vote. The speed with which there appears to have been a sea change of acceptance is quite remarkable.
Agreed. That's how I see it too. Whenever I see it brought up, it's often in bad faith projecting something on to a group where I see next to zero enthusiasm for it. But that's how the world works today. I"ve no doubt I could search the zillions of twitter posts and easily find 3 tweets to throw out there. But from a reality standpoint, I see no enthusiasm on this.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Their party would be down to about 15% of the population if they did this. A vast majority Republican voters do so mostly out of moral belief.
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bigbottom
Footballguy
Agreed on the enthusiasm, but not as sure when it comes to the Supreme Court. Obergefell was a 5-4 decision and two of the 5 (Kennedy and Ginsburg) have been replaced by Kavanaugh and Barrett. It’s because of the widespread acceptance of gay marriage, including by Republicans and Christians, that I think Republican politicians would be punished in future elections should the Supreme Court overturn their prior ruling.
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mr roboto
Footballguy
And in the last four years have been convinced that the left is the deep state and has railroaded President Trump unfairly and are a bunch of socialist that are going to take all their money.
most of my extended family are conservative Christians. It’s terrifying to see how deep they’ve gotten into trumps narrative and unfortunately some of them have replaced Trumpism as their primary religion it seems.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Most people I know have kind of given up on gay marriage they may not be happy about it but it’s really not a big deal and I’m not sure there’s a whole lot of Republicans fighting against it nationally anymore anyway.
I totally agree with that. My comment was more focussed on what is good politically for Republican candidates. If you had 2 equal Republican candidates, one that was vocally pro-life and one that was indifferent, I believe that the pro-life one will get more votes. This is because there are many one-issue pro-life voters.
I don't think the same can be said about same-sex marriage. It is not an important issue to most voters and won't sway their vote one way or the other.
So if I was a campaign advisor for a republican candidate, I'd advise them to be publically pro-life and to avoid talking about same sex marriage. It's a winning strategy for Republicans imo.
Punxsutawney Phil
Footballguy
Climate change is a big sticking point as well. Republicans need to embrace the green new deal. Having a thread like this is typical after a loss. Go back to the drawing board, and see what needs to be changed. However, is climate change, abortion, and gay marriage what loss this election for them? To me it seemed like they would have won by a landslide if it wasn't for the handling of covid. So they might think everything is right on track.
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Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
They already have. They just pay lip service to abortion and gay marriage to keep the base happy. I don't believe there's really any effort put forward, but as long as they 'pretend' that this is a core issue, they get the support of a large number of people.
Manster
Footballguy
"Women"? Last time I checked my wife is a woman, and she doesn't believe in killing babies.
Manster
Footballguy
Trump's act grew old, and covid didn't help. I think people would be more confident with Trump's economy vs Biden......that, and biden is literally the problem ad alifelong politician.....and he's like a hundred
squistion
Footballguy
Trump's economy was just a continuation of the Obama/Biden economy as verified by graphs that show an unchanged upward trajectory (up until the COVID epidemic).
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
My wife neither, but she also strongly doesn't believe in making those choices for others. Like someone upstream said, they don't have to be opposing views.
Jayrod
Footballguy
You are dead wrong on the abortion issue. As has been mentioned several times in this thread, it is a far cry different than gay marriage.
You should see some of the state laws that are being put in affect in red states. This is a huge issue and is hardly "settled". There are many lower level politicians paying much more than lip service to abortion and Trump put a lot of action behind his words on abortion.
Manster
Footballguy
And there's your sticking point......it's not about limiting someone's choice as much as how much value is attached to an unborn fetus.....I have several friends who have adopted unwanted children, or from bad situations.....
I guess the way I feel about it is, if you're using abortion as a form of birth control......imo, it's one of the worst things you can do.....incest, or rape I'll listen.....but unwanted pregnancies just because you don't want the inconvenience? Nope
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I feel like a broken record on this topic, but the membership of this forum is just incredibly out of touch with public opinion on abortion. As you rightly note, there a bunch of states that would outlaw abortion tomorrow if they were allowed to do so. And women are pro-life at approximately the exact same rate as men -- there actually isn't a gender split on this one. But people just keep acting as if this is somehow a settled issue.
General Malaise
Footballguy
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