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Will you get a Covid vaccine when available?


Covid vaccine  

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Who didn’t ses this coming? To me, it’s the same as the mask/no mask issue. If it’s ultimately about the reduction of the spread of COVID, then it’s public safety. Same thing with the vaccine imo as I see no issues with the vaccines themselves. I also haven’t done much outside the house in the last 12 months by choice for public safety. This was an easy decision for me. 
 

....and if I grow a tail or suddenly know a difficult foreign language after my first injection on Wednesday, then I consider it evolution. ;)

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I'm finally eligible Thursday and snagged an appointment for 9:36 a.m. that morning for a Moderna shot #1.  At the place I'm going, they are scheduled every six minutes!  Sigh of relief that the end o

So I was conducting a job interview today.  I flat out asked if they had been able to schedule their vaccine.  The response was that they weren't because they didn't want to alter their DNA.  I was le

Sounds like my wife on our honeymoon 

34 minutes ago, glvsav37 said:

@Capella and @Zasada

trying to keep the conversation civil, from what I know, the vaccine only helps reduce your symptoms if you got it. It does not stop you from getting Covid or spreading it. So if thats the case, anyone in those venues could still give covid to you, it just that if they did, you would not get as sick if you got it. 
 

It does reduce spreading.  Reduced viral load = reduced infectiousness = reduced spread.

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7 minutes ago, culdeus said:

This talking point is getting nauseous. It's driven by russian bots and right wing agitators to sow an anti vax agenda.  

There is enough evidence now to say that the effective level flows two ways.  Both for spread and contagion.  In that way you likely can put an exponent on the effectiveness where two people whom are vaxxed come into contact where one is + and spreading.  

see the link just below your reply. 

Also here is from Harvard Health Publishing, a well know Russian bot

Quote

 

Can I see family and friends who don’t yet have the vaccine, and socialize without my mask if I am fully vaccinated?

The risk that you’ll develop COVID-19 is low if you are vaccinated and attend a gathering indoors with others who are not vaccinated. However, please be aware that you can potentially spread the virus to others. Vaccination does not completely shield you from becoming infected with the virus; it just lessens symptoms and severity of disease. So, it’s possible that you could have no symptoms or only very mild symptoms, and still pass the virus to your family and friends who are not yet vaccinated.

 

oh and this is from the WHO (a few months old, but still confirms my point) 

Quote

 

Vismita Gupta-Smith

Kate, after one has been vaccinated, can one still catch COVID-19 and can one also infect others?

Dr. Katherine O'Brien

That's a great question. The clinical trials demonstrated that these vaccines protect people against disease. What we don't know yet from the clinical trials is whether or not the vaccines also protect people from just getting infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus and whether or not it protects against transmitting to somebody else. So, this is a really important part of our understanding about what these vaccines do. Do they only protect against disease or do they also protect against getting infected and being able to transmit to somebody else, even if you're not having any symptoms?

 

 

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100 of 250,000 fully vaccinated in Idaho have gotten Covid.    That's 0.04%. 1 in 2500.  There is no good argument for not getting the shot(s) unless you are allergic to vaccines.

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20 minutes ago, Getzlaf15 said:

100 of 250,000 fully vaccinated in Idaho have gotten Covid.    That's 0.04%. 1 in 2500.  There is no good argument for not getting the shot(s) unless you are allergic to vaccines.

There’s really no reason at all. I truly don’t understand the anti-vax thing. Do people ever wonder why they don’t have polio?

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2 hours ago, glvsav37 said:

the gov't holding events and daily luxuries hostage for those of us who don't feel comfortable with the shot is goes fully against our rights to choose. 

No, it actually doesn't do that at all.

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53 minutes ago, shuke said:

It does reduce spreading.  Reduced viral load = reduced infectiousness = reduced spread.

And likely reduced infectious period. So really you need to be in right place at the right time. Outside of immediate family and close co-workers, I’m not worried about being infected by anyone vaccinated.

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Just because the potential for something to happen exists doesn't mean it's likely or probable.  If you'd rather be safe than sorry, that's OK, but be prepared to give up some opportunities because of it. 

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1 hour ago, Capella said:

No. It’s the greatest public health crisis of our lifetime and hundreds of thousands have died. If you don’t want it for whatever reason (it’s extremely safe but you probably know that) then you should be told to stay back. That’s the trade-off. Zero sympathy for anybody refusing the shot at all. 

100% this.  I checked in because I just overheard my wife say my 76 yo BIL refuses to get it because it's all a government conspiracy to track people. Dumb for about a dozen reasons. 

I get Moderna shot 2 on Friday and can't wait. 

On a horribly sad note, a co-worker of mine got covid, gave it to his parents and they were both dead in days.  Breaks my heart.  Get vaccinated people. 

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1 hour ago, glvsav37 said:

see the link just below your reply. 

Also here is from Harvard Health Publishing, a well know Russian bot

oh and this is from the WHO (a few months old, but still confirms my point) 

 

The vaccines aren’t 100% foolproof.  We already knew this.  A very small % of people who are vaccinated will get infected with COVID still.   That’s what happens when a vaccine doesn’t have 100% efficacy.

But that is very different than what you are suggesting — you are suggesting the vaccines don’t prevent anyone from getting infected.

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2 hours ago, glvsav37 said:


So why would it mater if I was vaccinated or not? I would be the one taking the risk. 

 

the whole point of vaccination is to stop this from spreading & killing people whose immune systems cannot fight it off.

you might get it and not care, maybe you do get it and the symptoms are mild.. but you don't seem to care so the chances of you passing it on to someone else whose outcome you can't predict, and they passing it on to someone else, etc. is the problem.

this should not be a difficult concept

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2 hours ago, glvsav37 said:

But if I know gov't things like this don't just stay at large events, they will trickle down to normal everyday things like supermarkets and going to a restaurant. And they don't just go away....if instituted we will be showing "our code" for everything for a very long time.

Why do you conceive of it as a "government thing"?

Enough people get vaccinated and COVID can become a "background radiation" (endemic) disease like mononucleosis or meningitis -- they never disappear totally, but few enough people have an infection at any one time that one can move freely throughout society without worrying about having to catch them.

Once the nationwide case counts for COVID drop low enough, no one's going to have to worry about showing "their code" for public events anymore. For schools, the military, overseas travel, many occupations? Yes, COVID vaccination or proof of vaccination will be added onto the pile of other required vaccinations. No one's trying to do anything insidious -- these vaccines (COVID, too) are for the public good and this is very much known right now. Far-future life-altering side effects from the COVID vaccine are all but a patent impossibility.

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There are two ways to get a vaccine greenlighted by the FDA: with an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) or by applying for a license through a Biologics License Application (BLA).

 

“The only difference really between the emergency use and the licensure is that volunteers are observed for a longer period of time to see the duration of protection, and if there might be rare adverse events that occurred down the road," Dr. Schaffner said. 

 

In layman's terms, Dr. Monto said, that follow-up period after complete vaccination is typically longer when considering full licensure.

 

"After the clinical trials are finished, the difference between the Emergency Use Authorization and full licensure, for the public's information or knowledge, is basically the duration of follow-up or safety, not efficacy," Dr. Monto said. "Efficacy requirements are the same."

Applying for a license is no joke -- there are 21 pages worth of criteria for a COVID-19 vaccine BLA on the FDA’s website. They take into account the chemistry, manufacturing and clinical trials. 

 

A Pfizer spokesperson said they plan to submit a BLA in 2021. Same with Moderna and Johnson & Johnson according to press releases.

 

Just because the vaccines are under an EUA our experts say that doesn’t inherently make them less safe.

Edited by belljr
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2 hours ago, glvsav37 said:

This is my question that no one can answer though. From what I have read, even if vax'ed you can still catch and spread covid. So how is there a difference between non-vaxed and vaxed people spreading it? 

The part in blue is this close to untrue, but still barely true -- however, "catching" and "spreading" COVID when vaccinated are very different things than "catching" and "spreading" COVID when not vaccinated.

How? In two words, "viral load". It's a numbers game.

Vaccinated people who happen to have SARS-CoV-2 virions land in their nasal passages ... those people have antibodies ready to go practically from jump. That keeps the virions from being able to multiply in numbers -- they may make a little headway, but soon get overwhelmed by the antibodies.

Now, in the time between the virions entering your body and your antibodies clearing them ... it is technically possible (but a heck of a longshot) for you to breath out some number of virions that another person breaths in. Now, it takes some number of virions (viral load) for someone to truly get infected and sickened. A few stray virions coming out of your mouth isn't going to cut it -- the viral load is too low.

When SARS-CoV-2 virions enter an unvaccinated person, the virions multiply unimpeded for some time. Viral loads can get quite high quickly with nothing coming to the fore to fight them off. Even healthy unvaccinated people who don't get symptoms ... their body may win out in the end, but the virions have still had a chance to build up numbers and exit the body via breath and droplets. And it's all the worse for an unvaccinated person who does come down with symptoms and still goes out and about among the public -- their coughs and sneezes often send a lot more virions out into the air than the asymptomatic's breathing.

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2 hours ago, glvsav37 said:

(from the Harvard Health Publishing link)

Can I see family and friends who don’t yet have the vaccine, and socialize without my mask if I am fully vaccinated?

The risk that you’ll develop COVID-19 is low if you are vaccinated and attend a gathering indoors with others who are not vaccinated. However, please be aware that you can potentially spread the virus to others. Vaccination does not completely shield you from becoming infected with the virus; it just lessens symptoms and severity of disease. So, it’s possible that you could have no symptoms or only very mild symptoms, and still pass the virus to your family and friends who are not yet vaccinated.

"It's possible" is the scientists' hedge. When they don't have enough information to dang near completely rule something out, they will commonly leave a little room for doubt, choosing to err on the side of safety every time.

So, sure ... it's possible. In the way that it's possible to make three blindfolded three-pointers in a row.

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Vaccinations work on an individual and societal level.

As individuals, my wife and I are protected against hospitalization or worse.

At a societal level, by practically eliminating hospitalizations and worse outcomes, then we can remove any and all remaining business restrictions and really get the economy humming again.

Once those two goals are achieved, if there are people left unprotected because they chose not to get the vaccine, that is their choice and I’m not challenging that, even though it is somewhat selfish. But don’t complain when businesses decide they want proof of vaccination or a negative test to partake in their product or service offering though. And if you have a bad outcome, hospitalization or worse, then I’m sorry but that’s what you were risking for whatever reason was so important to you to risk it.

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Looks like Publix is refreshing their appointments for FL. I’m curious to see if I can snag an appointment a mere 3 miles from home tomorrow morning. :lol:

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7 hours ago, glvsav37 said:

@Capella and @Zasada

trying to keep the conversation civil, from what I know, the vaccine only helps reduce your symptoms if you got it. It does not stop you from getting Covid or spreading it.

Not sure where you are getting this. Studies show that "It's very rare, but it is possible to catch COVID-19 even if you've been vaccinated, a new study finds." I don't know how many vaccines prevent 100% chance of catching something. But I think stating it doesn't stop you from catching it is pretty much a false assertion.

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I become eligible Wednesday.  Got an appointment tonight for Wednesday morning. Was hoping for J&J, but getting Moderna.  

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1 hour ago, -fish- said:

I become eligible Wednesday.  Got an appointment tonight for Wednesday morning. Was hoping for J&J, but getting Moderna.  

:hifive:

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Is it safe to say Pfizer and Moderna are just being extra cautious on that one and two week guideline after the second shot until fully vax'd?  I'm curious how they both ended up at exactly one and two week timeframes.  And also exact weekly timelines (3 and 4) on the first shot as well.  I mean people aren't going to remember say 5 or 11 day intervals as easily, right?  Much easier for scheduling too, obviously.

So I'm considering cutting my two week Moderna window a few days short on Easter weekend.  Yet not dropping my guard completely by any means.

I read that efficacy is at like 50% for Moderna two weeks after the first shot.  Anyone know numbers after the 2nd shot?  Like a week after, for example?

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Publix site was interesting this morning when appointments opened half an hour ago. I think I waited about 18 minutes of 1 minute auto refreshes until I could get an appointment. All the times were not great and the likelihood of getting Mrs. O an appointment anywhere near mine was highly unlikely so we’re sticking with our Walgreen’s appointments about a half hour drive away this Wednesday. 

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19 minutes ago, Osaurus said:

Publix site was interesting this morning when appointments opened half an hour ago. I think I waited about 18 minutes of 1 minute refreshes until I could get an appointment. All the times we’re not great and the likelihood of getting Mrs. O an appointment anywhere near mine was highly unlikely so we’re sticking with our Walgreen’s appointments about a half hour drive away this Wednesday. 

I couldn’t find any open slots at Publix out of the gate this morning but was able to book for the wife and I at CVS. Took 5 minutes and was pretty easy no refreshing necessary. Of course I live in a smaller city so maybe that made a diff? Pfizer doses Friday morning for both of us. 

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4 minutes ago, snore said:

I couldn’t find any open slots at Publix out of the gate this morning but was able to book for the wife and I at CVS. Took 5 minutes and was pretty easy no refreshing necessary. Of course I live in a smaller city so maybe that made a diff? Pfizer doses Friday morning for both of us. 

Glad to hear. Everything in Tampa Bay is almost gone and it looks like most of the other well populated counties are the same. I keep watching the percentages remaining per county. It’s like trying to get concert tickets. Lol. 

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4 hours ago, Rodrigo Duterte said:

Is it safe to say Pfizer and Moderna are just being extra cautious on that one and two week guideline after the second shot until fully vax'd?  I'm curious how they both ended up at exactly one and two week timeframes.  And also exact weekly timelines (3 and 4) on the first shot as well.  I mean people aren't going to remember say 5 or 11 day intervals as easily, right?  Much easier for scheduling too, obviously.

So I'm considering cutting my two week Moderna window a few days short on Easter weekend.  Yet not dropping my guard completely by any means.

I read that efficacy is at like 50% for Moderna two weeks after the first shot.  Anyone know numbers after the 2nd shot?  Like a week after, for example?

The efficiency two weeks after the first dose is likely higher than that. Are you cutting your 2 weeks by a few days or a week? The second does probably needs about 10 days to be doing much for you. 

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1 hour ago, Osaurus said:

Publix site was interesting this morning when appointments opened half an hour ago. I think I waited about 18 minutes of 1 minute auto refreshes until I could get an appointment. All the times we’re not great and the likelihood of getting Mrs. O an appointment anywhere near mine was highly unlikely so we’re sticking with our Walgreen’s appointments about a half hour drive away this Wednesday. 

Me too. 7:18am I nabbed a jab at my local Publix for my #2 Moderna on Wed. This is much better than my first one where I had to drive 90 minutes to Winter Garden. Looks like Walgreens had local availability too but it wouldn't let me make a Wed appt until tomorrow.

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5 hours ago, Rodrigo Duterte said:

Is it safe to say Pfizer and Moderna are just being extra cautious on that one and two week guideline after the second shot until fully vax'd?  I'm curious how they both ended up at exactly one and two week timeframes.  And also exact weekly timelines (3 and 4) on the first shot as well.  I mean people aren't going to remember say 5 or 11 day intervals as easily, right?  Much easier for scheduling too, obviously.

So I'm considering cutting my two week Moderna window a few days short on Easter weekend.  Yet not dropping my guard completely by any means.

I read that efficacy is at like 50% for Moderna two weeks after the first shot.  Anyone know numbers after the 2nd shot?  Like a week after, for example?

The literature I got after Pfizer #2 says full protection happens 1 to 2 weeks after shot #2

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19 minutes ago, jobarules said:

The literature I got after Pfizer #2 says full protection happens 1 to 2 weeks after shot #2

The first dose of both vaccines is much more effective than what you're being told.  There's a graph floating out there from one of the trials that I can't find right now, but basically it showed infections dropping to nearly zero in the treatment group 12-14 days after the first shot.  This article tells a somewhat similar story.

Obviously you should get both shots.  But realistically you have put covid-19 in your rearview mirror once you get two weeks past the first dose.

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5 hours ago, Rodrigo Duterte said:

Is it safe to say Pfizer and Moderna are just being extra cautious on that one and two week guideline after the second shot until fully vax'd?  I'm curious how they both ended up at exactly one and two week timeframes.  And also exact weekly timelines (3 and 4) on the first shot as well.  I mean people aren't going to remember say 5 or 11 day intervals as easily, right?  Much easier for scheduling too, obviously.

So I'm considering cutting my two week Moderna window a few days short on Easter weekend.  Yet not dropping my guard completely by any means.

I read that efficacy is at like 50% for Moderna two weeks after the first shot.  Anyone know numbers after the 2nd shot?  Like a week after, for example?

There is some evidence from the trials and from Israel that the one to two week time frame after the second shot is fairly accurate.  

As for the weekly timelines for the shots, they don't recommend deviating from them because they have evidence that those timeframes work. It is quite possible or even likely that a different time frame (2 weeks, six weeks, maybe 12 weeks) would be equally as effective or possibly even more effective.  But as of now, that hasn't been studied so they don't recommend it.  They chose three and four weeks before the trial, because they have worked well in the past with other vaccines and the evidence for each is that they work with these vaccines as well.  They could change the guidance if new evidence arises.

So much of the decision-making in the entire pandemic is based on what has or has not been studied.  Hence the reluctance in the US to try the UK method of getting one shot in everyone as soon as possible and worrying about second shots later.  US officials won't recommend it simply because it hasn't been studied. 

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2 hours ago, Osaurus said:

Publix site was interesting this morning when appointments opened half an hour ago. I think I waited about 18 minutes of 1 minute auto refreshes until I could get an appointment. All the times were not great and the likelihood of getting Mrs. O an appointment anywhere near mine was highly unlikely so we’re sticking with our Walgreen’s appointments about a half hour drive away this Wednesday. 

Substitute CVS for Walgreen's in the above sentence and that's me. 

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Just now, Senor Schmutzig said:

Substitute CVS for Walgreen's in the above sentence and that's me. 

CVS was my other option, but I'm out of town starting Thursday so their dates didn't work for me. I still need to cancel my other appointments with the County. Soooo glad my drive to Walgreen's is way less than it would have been if I decided to do the County appointment.

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I'm in Wisconsin.  Talked to some neighbors of mine this past weekend.  He's a doctor (internal medicine), and his wife is hospital administrator.  They both said that the state should open it up to everyone.  He said that the health department is literally throwing away doses every day, and she said that her hospital has "tons" of appointments available.

Personally, I got my shot #2 on Saturday afternoon.  Felt like crap all day yesterday, sweated my ### off in bed last night, and then woke up this morning feeling totally fine.  :thumbup:

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Just now, bostonfred said:

This is exactly how we found an appointment in Illinois.  Went to a "red county" and there were dozens of slots available every day.  If we had been willing to "jump the line" we could have had a first dose 2-3 weeks ago.

Meanwhile, the city we live in is still vaccinating people in the 60-70 age range.  

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16 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:
47 minutes ago, jobarules said:

The literature I got after Pfizer #2 says full protection happens 1 to 2 weeks after shot #2

The first dose of both vaccines is much more effective than what you're being told ...

Obviously you should get both shots.  But realistically you have put covid-19 in your rearview mirror once you get two weeks past the first dose.


Yes indeed -- here's some reading (@Rodrigo Duterte, this answers your post, too):

Quote

 

Moderna (Stat News 2/25/2021)

The analysis of Pfizer’s first-dose efficacy is similar to the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine, mRNA-1273, which was reported to be 92.1% in an FDA briefing document, published on December 17, 2020. (link to a 54-page deep dive of supporting data submitted to the FDA in December 2020).

 

 

Quote

How efficacious is the vaccine? (WHO, 1/26/2021)The Moderna vaccine has been shown to have an efficacy of approximately 92 per cent in protecting against COVID-19, starting 14 days after the first dose.

 

Quote

How Effective is the First Shot of the Pfizer or Moderna Vaccine? (Global Bio Defense, 3/20/2021)

As the COVID-19 vaccines reach more people across the country, some people have asked: Could we delay the second dose of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines to allow more people to be vaccinated more quickly? And, how safe am I after my first dose?

As an immunologist, I hear this question frequently. The answer is that a single dose is very effective – but I would add that you should still get both doses. The issue is important, however, not only for your personal health but also for the country’s health as leaders figure out how to ensure there’s enough vaccine for everyone who wants one.

...

So what do we know? The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention urges people to get both doses of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. You should be reassured that even after a single dose of either of those vaccines, you have very high levels of protection after your body has time to build immunity, about a week. The scheduled second dose of these vaccines makes them even more effective, but at a time where vaccine supplies are limited, there’s a lot to be said about prioritizing the first dose for the most people.

 

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5 minutes ago, gruecd said:

I'm in Wisconsin.  Talked to some neighbors of mine this past weekend.  He's a doctor (internal medicine), and his wife is hospital administrator.  They both said that the state should open it up to everyone.  He said that the health department is literally throwing away doses every day, and she said that her hospital has "tons" of appointments available.

Personally, I got my shot #2 on Saturday afternoon.  Felt like crap all day yesterday, sweated my ### off in bed last night, and then woke up this morning feeling totally fine.  :thumbup:

 

They should open it up to everyone at this point.  Every state should.  We are about to have pallets of unused vaccine waiting for folks to sign up.  Already there are about 37 million unused doses in the pipeline and it's just going to go up from there.  Pfizer/Moderna have shipped 180mil of that 210 mil by the end of March goal.  Obviously they aren't going to reach that, but they are close. 

btw- WI has been top notch as far as getting doses into arms.  They totally fumbled the first 6 weeks, and were near the bottom 5 in the whole country, but since then WI has been top 3 every week in using 90% + of their doses.  A couple weeks ago they said less than 1000 doses had been wasted out of 1.5 million used.  So I don't think we're wasted a lot here, but I get your neighbors point.  

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On 3/22/2021 at 6:13 PM, flranger said:

Central Florida area.  50 yr old male.  No complications and not an essential worker.

Signed up on county website ~Jan 15.

Received offer to get vax last week via email, had to accept within 24 hours or lose time slot, accepted for 3/24 as offered.

Moderna will be the dosage.  Will report back with results after both doses.

Received shot as scheduled 3/24.  Left upper arm slightly sore, as one might expect with any type of shot for approximate 36 hours.  Took a nap in the afternoon, but I'm a napper and wouldn't tie it directly to the vax.  Otherwise zero complications.

A little surprised second dosage is 30 days out on 4/23 

Edited by flranger
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6 hours ago, Rodrigo Duterte said:

I read that efficacy is at like 50% for Moderna two weeks after the first shot.  Anyone know numbers after the 2nd shot?  Like a week after, for example?

I found where this 50% number is coming from (scroll about halfway down). You've got it backwards, though -- Moderna's first shot was 50% effective WITHIN the first two weeks after the first shot. AFTER the two weeks after the first shot ... that's when it gets to 92%.

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11 minutes ago, Willy said:

 

They should open it up to everyone at this point.  Every state should.  We are about to have pallets of unused vaccine waiting for folks to sign up.  Already there are about 37 million unused doses in the pipeline and it's just going to go up from there.  Pfizer/Moderna have shipped 180mil of that 210 mil by the end of March goal.  Obviously they aren't going to reach that, but they are close. 

btw- WI has been top notch as far as getting doses into arms.  They totally fumbled the first 6 weeks, and were near the bottom 5 in the whole country, but since then WI has been top 3 every week in using 90% + of their doses.  A couple weeks ago they said less than 1000 doses had been wasted out of 1.5 million used.  So I don't think we're wasted a lot here, but I get your neighbors point.  

Red states and battleground states were given more early inventory by the previous management of this process. I'm in Massachusetts and not close to getting a shot.  10 miles away in New Hampshire, anyone can get it right now. 

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15 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

Red states and battleground states were given more early inventory by the previous management of this process. I'm in Massachusetts and not close to getting a shot.  10 miles away in New Hampshire, anyone can get it right now. 

Did you diet yourself out of a shot?

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