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Will you get a Covid vaccine when available?


Covid vaccine  

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2 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

And what happens when COVID runs through a school and lots of kids get infected and bring that infection home to parents and grandparents?  What if some of those people cannot get a vaccine for medical reasons, or the vaccine the person was given did not give effective protection?  Why put those older people at necessary risk if the vaccine is proven to be safe and effective for children?

Because scary side effects. The misinformation campaign on this has been very effective. I know a number of people that would NEVER consider NOT vaccinating their children who believe the COVID vaccine does crazy stuff to you including "changing your DNA". It is mind boggling to me.

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I'm finally eligible Thursday and snagged an appointment for 9:36 a.m. that morning for a Moderna shot #1.  At the place I'm going, they are scheduled every six minutes!  Sigh of relief that the end o

Sounds like my wife on our honeymoon 

So I was conducting a job interview today.  I flat out asked if they had been able to schedule their vaccine.  The response was that they weren't because they didn't want to alter their DNA.  I was le

Just now, top dog said:

Because scary side effects. The misinformation campaign on this has been very effective. I know a number of people that would NEVER consider NOT vaccinating their children who believe the COVID vaccine does crazy stuff to you including "changing your DNA". It is mind boggling to me.

Are you 100% confident there will be no side effects to children?

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Just now, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Pfizer released data today that it is 100% effective and tolerated in adolescents 12-15 years old.

that's great news!

my kids are 12 and 14 (ok, 11 and 14 for a couple more days to be technical).  The oldest has asthma, likely to be chronic like me.  I know they aren't super high risk but getting them vaccinated would do wonders for their mental well being.  We have spent like a whole year preaching them to be careful - kept them home from school, mask enforcement, etc., mostly to protect me and my wife (both with various co-morbidities), but the kids have taken it as risks to themselves, which is natural. 

It seems wrong to me to allow our family to return to normal once my wife and I are good but the kids are not vaccinated - feels selfish for me to return to high-risk normal activities (i.e. be in crowds) with them unvaccinated.  Really, the Moleculo household doesn't return to normal life until we are all vaccinated.

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1 minute ago, top dog said:

Because scary side effects. The misinformation campaign on this has been very effective. I know a number of people that would NEVER consider NOT vaccinating their children who believe the COVID vaccine does crazy stuff to you including "changing your DNA". It is mind boggling to me.

This is the education system failing to teach science.  mRNA does not change your DNA.  UGH.

I can see these vaccines not being approved for kids under 12 potentially.  Or they being a lower dose and lower effectiveness.  The side-effects of the aches and high fevers may not sit well with a 6yr old or potentially cause other issues maybe?  This is just me thinking outloud.  

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1 minute ago, jobarules said:

Huh? You're talking about a very small % of people who cannot get the vaccine and the vaccine does provide effective protection 

I'm not sure that the effective protection is nearly 100%.  That's not the case for most other vaccines.   

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2 minutes ago, jobarules said:

Are you 100% confident there will be no side effects to children?

Not yet.  Clinical trial results are not yet published.  I think it unlikely that there will be short term side effects from the vaccine administered to children.  Long term side effects are unknown at this point. 

Obviously for adults the long-term effects are less important than they are for children, and this importance decreases as age increases (e.g. for a 90 year old, who cares if it effects fertility if it staves off severe infection from COVID).

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1 minute ago, jobarules said:

It's 100% effective in preventing death. 

Is death all that matters?  There are other end-points that should also be evaluated.  Death and ICU admission are primary, obviously, but there are others.

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1 minute ago, The Z Machine said:

Not yet.  Clinical trial results are not yet published.  I think it unlikely that there will be short term side effects from the vaccine administered to children.  Long term side effects are unknown at this point. 

Obviously for adults the long-term effects are less important than they are for children, and this importance decreases as age increases (e.g. for a 90 year old, who cares if it effects fertility if it staves off severe infection from COVID).

Agreed with all this. Which is why my child won't be getting vaccinated anytime soon. Maybe in a few years.

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Just now, IvanKaramazov said:

Admittedly I haven't read the literature, but I doubt the vaccine makes you immortal.

If that were the case, I certainly regret getting jabbed.  Living forever seems like a nightmare.

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1 minute ago, The Z Machine said:

Is death all that matters?  There are other end-points that should also be evaluated.  Death and ICU admission are primary, obviously, but there are others.

You were talking about the effectiveness of the vaccine. Yes death is the only thing that matters. ICU admissions wont matter if the vaccine is 95% effective at preventing symptomatic COVID.

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9 minutes ago, moleculo said:

that's great news!

my kids are 12 and 14 (ok, 11 and 14 for a couple more days to be technical).  The oldest has asthma, likely to be chronic like me.  I know they aren't super high risk but getting them vaccinated would do wonders for their mental well being.  We have spent like a whole year preaching them to be careful - kept them home from school, mask enforcement, etc., mostly to protect me and my wife (both with various co-morbidities), but the kids have taken it as risks to themselves, which is natural. 

It seems wrong to me to allow our family to return to normal once my wife and I are good but the kids are not vaccinated - feels selfish for me to return to high-risk normal activities (i.e. be in crowds) with them unvaccinated.  Really, the Moleculo household doesn't return to normal life until we are all vaccinated.

It was a smaller study and not published/peer-reviewed yet, but great news nonetheless.  

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2 minutes ago, jobarules said:

You were talking about the effectiveness of the vaccine. Yes death is the only thing that matters. ICU admissions wont matter if the vaccine is 95% effective at preventing symptomatic COVID.

What about long-haulers?  Those people would disagree that death is the only thing that matters.  Would suck to be in the 5% that did get a symptomatic COVID infection and then got hit with long-haul symptoms.

Would you feel the same way if the 3rd phase clinical trials didn't show 100% effectiveness in prevention of death from COVID?  I bet we see some even larger scale data sets coming out of Israel that may give more info on this topic.

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I think the smashing success of this thing has caught anti-vax people flat footed.  They heard the terms <100% effective and hung their hats on that, saying 100 or nothing.  

Now it looks more or less 100% effective at death, hospitalization, and perhaps transmission.  And it's holding up to assault by variants, including the B117.  

You have to think that the whole "long covid" thing is 100% effective also.  We all know someone that still can't taste right, sleep right, breath right 3-4 months later.  Annoying ####, but not deadly.  I have bros that lift that can't even get thru half a workout without being just floored.  Who the hell wants to risk that.   

 

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8 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

What about long-haulers?  Those people would disagree that death is the only thing that matters.  Would suck to be in the 5% that did get a symptomatic COVID infection and then got hit with long-haul symptoms.

Would you feel the same way if the 3rd phase clinical trials didn't show 100% effectiveness in prevention of death from COVID?  I bet we see some even larger scale data sets coming out of Israel that may give more info on this topic.

None of this convinces me I should vaccinate my child (who is EXTREMELY low risk from COVID) for the off chance a fully vaccinated person gets covid AND experiences long haul symptoms.

Its amazing. How many people vaccinate their children for the flu? I'm almost positive unvaccinated kids catch the flu and give it to someone else who ends up dying from the flu. Where's the concern for the greater good for society there? I bet you people in this very thread don't get their kids a flu shot. Heck I know tons of adults on these forums who don't get the flu shot. There was even a thread about it. They have no problem possibly getting others ill (possibly killing others) with the flu. Hypocritical if you ask me. 

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21 minutes ago, jobarules said:

Are you 100% confident there will be no side effects to children?

No. And I should have clarified that the people I was talking about who wouldn't question getting their children vaccinated on normal vaccines won't get the COVID vaccine for THEMSELVES. My sister-in-law is a great example of this. She makes fun of her cousin for being an anti-vaxer for autism, but refuses to get the COVID shot for herself. And she is a nurse. :wall:

I'm not in the "vaccinate all kids now" camp. I very much understand parents being apprehensive about vaccinating their child with a new vaccine. Especially with all the misinformation out there about it. 

The reality is you are either gambling with the unknown short term / long term effects of the vaccine vs. the virus. IMO an adult should take the vaccine. But if a parent opts out of giving it to a child, I'm understanding of that.

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7 minutes ago, jobarules said:

None of this convinces me I should vaccinate my child (who is EXTREMELY low risk from COVID) for the off chance a fully vaccinated person gets covid AND experiences long haul symptoms.

Its amazing. How many people vaccinate their children for the flu? I'm almost positive unvaccinated kids catch the flu and give it to someone else who ends up dying from the flu. Where's the concern for the greater good for society there? I bet you people in this very thread don't get their kids a flu shot. Heck I know tons of adults on these forums who don't get the flu shot. There was even a thread about it. They have no problem possibly getting others ill (possibly killing others) with the flu. Hypocritical if you ask me. 

They should be getting the flu shot.  As should all adults.  The flu kills people every year.  Just because people are not complying with that, doesn't mean it is correct.  Plus, this is not the flu.  At all.

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1 hour ago, GroveDiesel said:

they’re not getting it because of the rumored fertility issues and lots of parents of teens/kids I know have said they won’t let their child get it for the same reason.

Not sure which anti-American group started this baseless lie on social media, but its caused immeasurable damage. :thumbdown:

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7 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

They should be getting the flu shot.  As should all adults.  The flu kills people every year.  Just because people are not complying with that, doesn't mean it is correct.  Plus, this is not the flu.  At all.

Try to follow a conversation:

A) For kids, this is the flu

B) Z Machine was saying kids should be vaccinated for the greater good of society. To protect those low % of fully vaccinated people who may still die from covid or those low % of people who cannot get vaccinated.

C) The number of people who die from the flu will be much higher than deaths of (fully vaccinated + unable to get vaccinated) people.

D) People who dont get the flu shot are judgmental hypocrites because they can be killing people as well.

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1 minute ago, belljr said:

Its law to get children flu shots until 5 years old here.

And yep get them every year

 

I get one and so does my son. Every year as well. Im dying to see how many hypocrites we have on these forums dont get them for the greater good of society but the search function sucks. Oh well.

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39 minutes ago, jobarules said:

Are you 100% confident there will be no side effects to children?

Very much so.

Not going to kid you ... in my own headspace, that's 99% information/knowledge and 1% an article of faith. But I consider something truly problematic happening to one of my kids from the COVID vaccine to be less likely than, say, a direct meteorite strike on their head. Or being struck by lightning on a sunny day. Mathematically possible, but so remote as to be readily considered "impossible".

My 17-year-old daughter badly wanted to be vaccinated and she was, indeed, vaccinated with her first course yesterday -- the second day she was eligible in our state. My 14-year-old son also wants the vaccine badly ... so we are watching attentively for signs that his time will come sooner rather than later. Now then -- we are coming from a position where we are fully convinced that risks from COVID itself (even for teens) are many orders of magnitude worse than the risks from an mRNA vaccine.

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7 minutes ago, E-Z Glider said:

Not sure which anti-American group started this baseless lie on social media, but its caused immeasurable damage. :thumbdown:

Probably people who thought Utopia was a documentary. Not a good show, but is about a pandemic and a conspiracy to sterilize the world with a vaccine. The most depressing realization for me over the last 4-6 years is that the line between fiction, fantasy and truth is gone. 

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5 minutes ago, belljr said:

Also by law to attend public school you have to have all your immunizations (flu is not one) but there is a list that are required

So :shrug:

Do you think a COVID vaccine will be required to attend school in 2021?

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48 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

I can see these vaccines not being approved for kids under 12 potentially.  Or they being a lower dose and lower effectiveness.  The side-effects of the aches and high fevers may not sit well with a 6yr old or potentially cause other issues maybe?  This is just me thinking outloud.  

Need @Terminalxylem or @growlers or @gianmarco to weigh in, maybe @ghostguy123 too, but:

My understanding is that for small children, they won't need a very big dose at all. Not so much because they are physically smaller, but because (generally) their immune systems are as sensitive and robust as they will ever be.

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1 minute ago, Doug B said:

Need @Terminalxylem or @growlers or @gianmarco to weigh in, maybe @ghostguy123 too, but:

My understanding is that for small children, they won't need a very big dose at all. Not so much because they are physically smaller, but because (generally) their immune systems are as sensitive and robust as they will ever be.

I don't know about the actual dosing, but I know they are going to be starting trials in the next few months for this age group.  I've actually signed up to enroll my two daughters (5 and 8).

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According to my CDC card, Phizer shot 1 is in the books. Mrs. O got hers too. No noticeable 5G improvement yet, but maybe it takes time for the system to sync up with me. 

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21 minutes ago, jobarules said:

Try to follow a conversation:

A) For kids, this is the flu

B) Z Machine was saying kids should be vaccinated for the greater good of society. To protect those low % of fully vaccinated people who may still die from covid or those low % of people who cannot get vaccinated.

C) The number of people who die from the flu will be much higher than deaths of (fully vaccinated + unable to get vaccinated) people.

D) People who dont get the flu shot are judgmental hypocrites because they can be killing people as well.

I'm not @The Z Machine but I'd argue that for B), it's not protecting the vaccinated so much as the unvaccinated - antivaxxers, religious exemptions, people with legitimate medical exemptions, and those that fall through the cracks,  I don't feel so bad about the antivaxxers or religious but the other two - we should protect them.

as to C) and D) COVID, vaccine should be thought of along the lines of measles/mumps/rubella, polio, etc and the other vaccinations we routinely give to children....not so much flu.  These were down to basically background level, very rare.  My understanding is that they are appearing because anti-vaxxers are significant enough we are losing herd immunity.

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12 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

I don't know about the actual dosing, but I know they are going to be starting trials in the next few months for this age group.  I've actually signed up to enroll my two daughters (5 and 8).

Moderna's for this age group just started two weeks ago. In which company's trial did you enroll your daughters?

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Just now, Doug B said:

Moderna's for this age group just started two weeks ago. In which company's trial did you enroll your daughters?

Pfizer.

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8 minutes ago, moleculo said:

I'm not @The Z Machine but I'd argue that for B), it's not protecting the vaccinated so much as the unvaccinated - antivaxxers, religious exemptions, people with legitimate medical exemptions, and those that fall through the cracks,  I don't feel so bad about the antivaxxers or religious but the other two - we should protect them.

as to C) and D) COVID, vaccine should be thought of along the lines of measles/mumps/rubella, polio, etc and the other vaccinations we routinely give to children....not so much flu.  These were down to basically background level, very rare.  My understanding is that they are appearing because anti-vaxxers are significant enough we are losing herd immunity.

Why? Those other diseases ARE MUCH MORE DEADLY to children than Covid. The flu is comparable. Those are required because they eliminate very deadly diseases to children and have been proven low risk over many years. Neither of those can be said about a Covid vaccine YET. 

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For anybody saying it doesn’t affect kids, over 250 children have died from covid. If there was some random disease that came out last year that killed 250 kids there would be a National panic. It just gets overlooked for kids because it is so much more benign than when compared to what it’s doing to the olds. 

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3 minutes ago, Capella said:

For anybody saying it doesn’t affect kids, over 250 children have died from covid. If there was some random disease that came out last year that killed 250 kids there would be a National panic. It just gets overlooked for kids because it is so much more benign than when compared to what it’s doing to the olds. 

I doubt national panic. People don't panic about the flu 

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2 hours ago, belljr said:

We've had 50 in our school :shrug:

we get an alert, about every other week, that someone at school has contracted covid.  they don't say who it is, but the assumption, is that it's a kid.  :shrug: 

eta:  high school

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For the millionth time little johnny it will probably only be the flu but the number of potential infections from little johnny is NOT like the flu. Stop comparing the 2 it's been a year already with that nonsense

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11 minutes ago, jobarules said:

Why? Those other diseases ARE MUCH MORE DEADLY to children than Covid. The flu is comparable. Those are required because they eliminate very deadly diseases to children and have been proven low risk over many years. Neither of those can be said about a Covid vaccine YET. 

ugh.

for the last time - I'm not concerned about kids getting COVID. I'm concerned about unvaccinated children transmitting to unvaccinated adults and this thing lingering indefinitely.  

Think bigger - not implications to you personally but to society as a whole.

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1 minute ago, belljr said:

For the millionth time little johnny it will probably only be the flu but the number of potential infections from little johnny is NOT like the flu. Stop comparing the 2 it's been a year already with that nonsense

Millions of infect of fully vaccinated adults?

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2 hours ago, GroveDiesel said:

With as many people not taking the vaccine I think herd immunity is unlikely. Heck, if 50% of frontline healthcare workers aren’t getting it, that’s a bad sign. I know plenty of people who have bought into any bit of uncertainty and have decided not to get it. Many in their 20s saying they’re not getting it because of the rumored fertility issues and lots of parents of teens/kids I know have said they won’t let their child get it for the same reason. Throw in all the other groups that can’t/won’t get it and I think 70% is more hope than anything.

And even if we can get to 70% in the US, what are the odds the rest of the world could get there within the next few years? The logistics alone make it tough. But large parts of Europe are even more anti-vax than the US.

where do you get that 50% number?  every nurse/dr i know, has already been vaccinated.  small sample size, but all of them got it right away.  

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10 minutes ago, Capella said:

For anybody saying it doesn’t affect kids, over 250 children have died from covid. If there was some random disease that came out last year that killed 250 kids there would be a National panic. It just gets overlooked for kids because it is so much more benign than when compared to what it’s doing to the olds. 

There's also been over 2000 cases of MIS-C.  It's not an entirely benign illness for all kids.  Not to mention the uncertainty of long term problems that we still don't know about.

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2 minutes ago, moleculo said:

ugh.

for the last time - I'm not concerned about kids getting COVID. I'm concerned about unvaccinated children transmitting to unvaccinated adults and this thing lingering indefinitely.  

Think bigger - not implications to you personally but to society as a whole.

Newsflash: this thing is going linger indefinitely no matter what.

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So, Pennsylvania, who is still in "1A" is now moving their eligibility for vaccines at light-speed.  They already made J&J available to all teachers.  

Now "1A" is being expanded effective today to include law enforcement, firefighters, grocery store workers, and food and agriculture workers.

"1B" will be eligible April 5

"1C" will be eligible April 12

And everyone will be April 19.

I assume this means eligible to schedule your appointment.  I feel like Gov. Wolf is just throwing dates out there to make it look good, but PA's supply and distribution will make this a disaster to schedule this aggressively.  

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Just now, gianmarco said:

There's also been over 2000 cases of MIS-C.  It's not an entirely benign illness for all kids.  Not to mention the uncertainty of long term problems that we still don't know about.

Which is easily treatable now that doctors know to look out for it

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Just now, jobarules said:

Newsflash: this thing is going linger indefinitely no matter what.

well sure, with that attitude it will.

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