Kanil
Footballguy
It's clear that 2 shot people (or 1 shot J&J) are significantly better off than no dose people but it's also very clear that 1 more shot people are also way better off.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Will you get a Covid vaccine when available? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter gianmarco
- Start date
It's clear that 2 shot people (or 1 shot J&J) are significantly better off than no dose people but it's also very clear that 1 more shot people are also way better off.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
I'll just say it again....it's time to move on from "cases" as a meaningful measure of anything and on to "hospitalizations and deaths". It's clear this is going to be similar (in management terms) to flu management. It's important to keep yourself primed during the time where the virus is actively spreading. Why? To keep you out of the hospital and from dying. Given that well over 95% of our cases are STILL delta, getting boosted if you haven't been already is a good idea to combat being hospitalized or dying from it. I think we all agree that delta is pretty deadly, right?
Wow. I don't follow this super closely but this is the first time I've heard someone say one should be considered "unvaccinated" if they've had two shots but not the booster.
Last edited by a moderator:
FWIW, I got my two shots relatively early (2nd shot in April).
I got Covid in October. Severe enough to feel awful but not hospitalized. I did develop blood clots in my leg afterward.
My best friend, an MD and super strong pro vaccination person, said he'd recommend I finish the 90 day blood clot treatment medicine before I got a booster.
With two shots, I definitely do not consider myself "unvaccinated".
I got Covid in October. Severe enough to feel awful but not hospitalized. I did develop blood clots in my leg afterward.
My best friend, an MD and super strong pro vaccination person, said he'd recommend I finish the 90 day blood clot treatment medicine before I got a booster.
With two shots, I definitely do not consider myself "unvaccinated".
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Had we started rolling out the boosters in September, like the evidence indicated we should have been doing, perhaps you would not have caught COVID and developed potentially dangerous blood clots.
Now that you had COVID and developed that condition, that is a different set of circumstances relating to when you should get the third dose.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Everything coming out of Israel this summer was screaming this was a three shot vaccine. It is why initially the Biden administration called on the FDA to approve boosters by September 20. But that all got gummed up in politics and bureaucracy.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I 100% disagree (on the case counting). Cases are vectors of mutation. If we are not concentrating on getting cases down and reducing transmission, we are inviting mutation. Also, given the lack of vaccine penetration in this county (and the world) high volumes of cases will still lead to poor outcomes. Positivity rate and gross cases are a key measurement while still in this pandemic phase. We can stop caring about case counts when this is endemic and immunity has been built up in the community to reduce severe outcomes much more than they are currently.
Last edited by a moderator:
The Commish
Footballguy
If this is the genuine concern, we shouldn't be doing boosters right now and sending those doses to countries with less than 50% vaccination rates. That approach would go SIGNIFICANTLY further in achieving this particular goal.
ETA: And to be crystal clear, I'm NOT saying they shouldn't be tracked. I'm saying, from the layperson's point of view, we need to shift focus. Yes, they should still be tracked and monitored, but they shouldn't be the focus they were when answering the questions like "how are we doing?"
Last edited by a moderator:
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Not if those countries still aren't able to vaccinate more than 50% due to other reasons, not related to supply. Which seems to be the case right now. What countries are saying they need more doses -- that demand outweighs supply?
The Commish
Footballguy
The entire continent of Africa needs significantly more vaccine. And yes, 50% vaccinated is meaningfully better than 10% vaccinated and 70% vaccinated is meaningfully better than 50% vaccinated etc etc.
Last edited by a moderator:
The argument changes based on the what’s happening with the cases. The summer was a pandemic of the unvaccinated. Then delta came around and we started to see waning of vaccine coverage and the need for boosters emerged.
We’re in the middle of a constantly changing pandemic and almost everything from vaccines to treatments to immunity is being learned on the fly. People getting their booster ask me how often we’re gonna need them and I’m honest and tell them I have no clue and no one else does either.
Booster need has changed. You can look back and see that I was very much against the broad approval of boosters based on the lack of good data on the need the political pressure around it. Delta has changed that and it looks like Omicron will make it an absolute necessity. But you won’t see me ‘booster shaming’ someone. I will give my strong recommendation when it’s warranted and will do my best to answer any questions but I’m not going to pressure someone.
What I don’t get is why people are so surprised and upset when something changes. Nothing about this virus is settled science, it’s constantly changing.
The data did not show the need for widespread boosters in September and even if it did, I don’t think you’d see much difference as far as cases. Us and every other pharmacy have been at or above capacity for boosters since the initial approval. If they had approved it for everyone, I doubt there would be significant more people boosted, just different people and with all likelihood more people at lower risk.
Doug B
Footballguy
Disagree a bit that "nothing is settled", because that gives an out for people to reject well-supported guidance out of hand. Otherwise ... right on.
I mean -- did people really think guidance from March 2020 was going to hold forever? We didn't know much back then, and yet guidance based on incomplete information had to be given.
dawgtrails
Footballguy
If the unboosted cause us to either have more shutdowns or spike hospitalizations then yes
No, I don’t understand how that’s your takeaway from my post. I specifically said I’m against ‘booster shaming’ and anything like that. The more boosters we need, the bigger problem we will have. Human nature and fatigue will cause a certain % of the population to opt-out of boosters. Shame will never be the solution.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
It was more than politics. There was conflicting data out of Israel. Even Israel's own medical personnel were split on the issue. It's extremely important to not jump to conclusions based on early data.
Oh sorry. Yes I think there’s a good chance they will be vilified but they certainly shouldn’t. No one wants this pandemic to continue and most are angry about it. Some lash out at those who are making the restrictions. Others will blame the people who they think aren’t doing as much as them (vax vs unvaxxed, boosted vs not, mask vs not, etc). We all want someone to be upset at for our lives not being as great as they used to be. As long as the pandemic continues there will be targets and the unboosted are likely coming up soon.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
(cross-posted from the COVID thread, but relevant to the discussion here)
DEFCON Omicron? Scientists report that Omicron evades antibodies. Here's what that might really mean.
Antibody escape isn’t great news, but it has no direct relationship to key clinical outcomes for Covid-19.
and the part that caught my eye:
DEFCON Omicron? Scientists report that Omicron evades antibodies. Here's what that might really mean.
Antibody escape isn’t great news, but it has no direct relationship to key clinical outcomes for Covid-19.
and the part that caught my eye:
Aside from me though and my condition, it seems interesting you're calling anyone who's had the first two shots but not the booster "Unvaccinated". That was my main point. That seems incredibly confusing.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
It is confusing. But I am not with the FDA or CDC who have really bungled this whole thing since March 2020 IMO from a communication standpoint.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
beer 30
Footballguy
Me neither but I can see it. Call it moving the goalposts or whatever but I hear more & more in these threads that to be considered fully vax'd you need 3 shots. I'm not against boosters and will get one but it seems disingenuous to consider someone with two shots unvaccinated.
Dickies
Footballguy
Yea, I'd say there is more of a sliding scale.
3 mRNA shots >>>> J&J + mRNA booster >>>> 2 mRNA shots >>>> J&J shot >>>> natural immunity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unvaccinated
I have no idea if this order is actually correct, but from what I've read that's how I interpret it.
-fish-
Footballguy
You're going to have a fun time wading through information and recommendations about when to get a booster. I was fully vaxxed in April and got Covid the first week of September. It's hard to get an appointment to see my doctor, so while I was waiting to see him to get a checkup and an opinion as to when to get a booster I haven't heard two other sources give the same advice. Finally saw him, and I'm going with his advice, which is to go ahead and get it after 90 days from recovery.
Van Dyman
Footballguy
To add yet another wrinkle to an already confusing conversation...
Since the idea is that COVID vaccine effectiveness wanes over time, someone whose 2nd and last jab was in April is probably less protected than someone who just got his first jab 6 weeks ago and 2nd jab 2 weeks ago.
Last edited by a moderator:
DallasDMac
Footballguy
I find it hard to fathom that, given the percentage of hospitalizations of COVID patients that are unvaccinated versus vaccinated, that these discussions are still on-going.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
Many Americans don't understand statistics and probabilities, and many prefer to believe anecdotes/narratives that fit their worldview rather than objective data.
Last edited by a moderator:
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
wife and i boosted today. her arm is sore. mine is barely sore. no other side effects.
#teamphizer
#teamphizer
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
NFL is requiring staff to get boosters.
fatness
Footballguy
I'm not sure why "considered vaccinated" or "considered unvaccinated" is a phrase someone gets hung up on. What matters is how protected someone is, not a phrase.
Being vaccinated against COVID seems to me to be how full your gas tank is. Get your first shot, start getting protected. Get the second, protection goes way up. Over time that protection wanes. Get a booster and it goes way back up. That may well be the way it is for the forseeable future unless and until COVID mutates itself into something less serious.
I'm trying to imagine people debating on the internet about the need to fill up their gas tank every so often.
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
Wildcat
Footballguy
My dad (80) was just admitted to the hospital tonight due to Covid and low oxygen levels. My brother (59) was admitted two days ago from pneumonia from Covid. Both are unvaccinated.
Covid just ran through our vaccinated household. Two of us had mild symptoms (my wife - 44, son -10) and two of us zero symptoms (me-49, son-7).
Get your vaccines! I can’t believe this is still a debated topic.
Covid just ran through our vaccinated household. Two of us had mild symptoms (my wife - 44, son -10) and two of us zero symptoms (me-49, son-7).
Get your vaccines! I can’t believe this is still a debated topic.
Last edited by a moderator:
Doug B
Footballguy
"Dude, I got gas in February! Why do I have to get more gas now? Weren't we promised a car that got 5,000 miles to the gallon? Huh? HUH?"
fatness
Footballguy
Gosh thanks, Cav. My mother was a car. Glad to hear I'm not.
In case you haven't noticed in the FFA, people do routine maintenance and preventative maintenance on their bodies and minds all the time.
fatness
Footballguy
Who is "they"? Where and what are these mandates? How do they affect your life right now? It's obviously a hotbutton phrase for you. Perhaps one better discussed in the PSA. This is the "will you get a COVID vaccine" thread, not the "government response" thread.
My tank's as full as it can be right now (as is yours, according to you). When my tank's running low I'll fill up again.
jhib
Footballguy
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Yes. That one stopped after tiring of the talk like:
This one will lock too if the tone spirals down as far as that one with the mocking each other.
Last edited by a moderator:
The government thread was closed.
In NYC ages 5+ are required to show vaccine proof to enter a restaurant, movie theater, or recreational event. Also required for sports, band, and dance. The governor just issued a new mask mandate for all public places even though 90% of NYC adults are vaxxed. All private employers now mandated in NYC. We've gone backwards despite us being at 90%.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Just the sore shoulder each time.bcat01 said:
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
90% what? Based on what we know today, it’s time to stop pretending that:
a) a single dose of J&J or double dose of Pfizer = fully vaccinated
flip side
b) that the goal is to have zero transmissions
I get that it’s tricky for people to keep up with the ever changing reality, but that’s just how science works.
People who have a single dose of J&J aren’t fully vaccinated for Delta or Omicron. They simply aren’t. So the 90% figure — which wasn’t meaningful because it referred to % of adults with a single dose not “fully vaccinated” adults — is borderline irrelevant. There is a reason the NFL is having a large number of infections now — many athletes got J&J and haven’t been boosted. Which means that they aren’t anywhere near fully vaccinated. It would arguably be more accurate to call them barely vaccinated.
In parallel, we have people freaking out about positive tests……even though we know now that breakthrough cases of triple-dosed people will rarely lead to hospitalization or death. Typically minor symptoms, sometimes more invasive.
We need to be better about pivoting in response to reality.
