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Ravens/Steelers Debacle  

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For those that don’t know, since no one seems to want to be up and up about the reporting of it, a Ravens staffer broke protocol and is believed to have caused this super spreader event. Lamar tested positive today and for whatever reason the league doesn’t want to hold the Ravens to the same standard as the 49ers. I’ve made the poll bland and removed my bias (I am a Steelers fan). Feel free to discuss.

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I voted no on all 3. I think the Ravens should just have to play with their backups/practice squad. Too bad for them, but its a completely fair solution. Should have made the Titans do that a earlier

No/No/Yes Play it Week 18. Point fingers all you want. Nobody is forfeiting a game. The shield would never allow it. Move the whole freaking league and playoffs back a week. To me it’s inevi

I'm sure the Broncos appreciate the league's flexibility in moving games around to minimize the competitive effect of covid outbreaks.

No/No/Yes

Play it Week 18. Point fingers all you want. Nobody is forfeiting a game. The shield would never allow it. Move the whole freaking league and playoffs back a week.

To me it’s inevitable this was going to happen. Deal with it. Work the problem. Blame game is b.s., just fix the problem.

Forcing them to play is akin to a forfeit in my mind. Terrible solution. IMO.

Edited by BoerumHill
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The NFL has already established that they will not have teams forfeit games, even if they have broken protocols (in fact, they’ve demonstrated that they will lie about whether the team broke protocols and then later quietly punish them).

No idea what they are going to eventually do, but I guarantee a forfeit won’t happen.

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10 minutes ago, BoerumHill said:

No/No/Yes

Play it Week 18. Point fingers all you want. Nobody is forfeiting a game. The shield would never allow it. Move the whole freaking league and playoffs back a week.

To me it’s inevitable this was going to happen. Deal with it. Work the problem. Blame game is b.s., just fix the problem.

Forcing them to play is akin to a forfeit in my mind. Terrible solution. IMO.

They made the 49ers play basically under these exact same conditions. They whole heartedly blamed the Titans and Raiders for breaking protocol. The NFL either intentionally or unintentionally is putting the Ravens on a pedestal this week in the middle of a heated rivalry in the most competitive division in the sport. They should be made to either come up with a roster or take the L, IMO.

 

8 minutes ago, travdogg said:

I voted no on all 3. I think the Ravens should just have to play with their backups/practice squad. Too bad for them, but its a completely fair solution. Should have made the Titans do that a earlier this year too.

I’m on board with this. Fine, one of your staffers screwed up. You get the same protocol as the 9ers and Raiders.

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4 minutes ago, Iceman03 said:

They made the 49ers play basically under these exact same conditions. They whole heartedly blamed the Titans and Raiders for breaking protocol. The NFL either intentionally or unintentionally is putting the Ravens on a pedestal this week in the middle of a heated rivalry in the most competitive division in the sport. They should be made to either come up with a roster or take the L, IMO.

 

I’m on board with this. Fine, one of your staffers screwed up. You get the same protocol as the 9ers and Raiders.

In addition to the 49ers and Raiders, the Patriots were forced to play without the Chiefs as well, without multiple important layers, namely Cam Newton.

Why should the Ravens get a break? They were almost certainly going to lose anyway. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing full workload Gus Edwards and maybe RG3 can channel the past for a week?

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As of today, even with Lamar testing positive, there is no reason to postpone the game past next Monday or Tuesday.  I highly doubt a forfeit would be considered.  So the only other options would be to move the game to Week 18, or cancel it altogether.  This should only be done if:

Positives continue to trickle in, making it reasonably likely that the Ravens will have an infected player on the field on Sunday, who could then spread it to the Steelers.

OR

The Ravens can't field 8 offensive linemen.

I do think the lack of o-line poses safety risks for the QB, the marquee players of the league.  Being short QB's or RB's or LB's hurts competitive balance, yes, but does not pose a safety risk to the other players on the team.

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14 minutes ago, Iceman03 said:

They made the 49ers play basically under these exact same conditions. They whole heartedly blamed the Titans and Raiders for breaking protocol. The NFL either intentionally or unintentionally is putting the Ravens on a pedestal this week in the middle of a heated rivalry in the most competitive division in the sport. They should be made to either come up with a roster or take the L, IMO.

 

I’m on board with this. Fine, one of your staffers screwed up. You get the same protocol as the 9ers and Raiders.

They moved the Titans/Bills games multiple times, to the point where the Titans actually got a bunch of guys back that wouldn’t have been able to play otherwise and the Bills ended up with short rest against the Chiefs. So the NFL absolutely has bent over backwards to benefit a team who broke protocols previously.

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Do we have any details on the staffer and how careless the actions were?  It's hard for me to formulate an opinion without knowing how egregious the actions were.  It is possible that responsible people contract covid as well. Masks reduce the possiblity but they aren't full proof.  If the staffer was acting relatively responsibly and just got unlucky--that's one thing.  If the staffer was acting very carelessly and the organization failed in its oversight--that's a different story. 

Edited by jvdesigns2002
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1 minute ago, GroveDiesel said:

They moved the Titans/Bills games multiple times, to the point where the Titans actually got a bunch of guys back that wouldn’t have been able to play otherwise and the Bills ended up with short rest against the Chiefs. So the NFL absolutely has bent over backwards to benefit a team who broke protocols previously.

Then you should be in agreeance that that should not be the protocol. The Titans should never have gotten the free pass they did especially in light that they scoffed at the NFL and went and worked out in a high school facility AFTER their game was moved.

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8 minutes ago, themeistersinger said:

As of today, even with Lamar testing positive, there is no reason to postpone the game past next Monday or Tuesday.  I highly doubt a forfeit would be considered.  So the only other options would be to move the game to Week 18, or cancel it altogether.  This should only be done if:

Positives continue to trickle in, making it reasonably likely that the Ravens will have an infected player on the field on Sunday, who could then spread it to the Steelers.

OR

The Ravens can't field 8 offensive linemen.

I do think the lack of o-line poses safety risks for the QB, the marquee players of the league.  Being short QB's or RB's or LB's hurts competitive balance, yes, but does not pose a safety risk to the other players on the team.

Why 8? Pretty sure Dallas didn't have 8 this week. Could always play a TE at OT or some other solution. 

Canceling altogether runs into another issue. The Steelers are undefeated, and could in theory be the 1st team ever to go 19-0. Would they want to risk not having that?

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Ross Tucker @RossTuckerNFL

Reminder that if Ravens have to forfeit the Steelers game then none of the players for either team get paid which is the LAST thing most of those guys want.

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Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora

NFL will avoid Week 18 scenarios unless no other recourse. Just because Ravens "scheduled" to play Cowboys next Thurs doesn't mean much. That can be moved back to Sun or Mon if Ravens/Steelers becomes a Mon or Tues game. Moving this game to Jan is a last resort

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Albert Breer @AlbertBreer

The Ravens are planning on being cautious with their players in light of the positive tests, so expectation is they'll work remotely the rest of the week. That was their call, not the NFL's. If the NFL says they play Sunday against the Steelers, then they'll be ready to play.

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38 minutes ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

Do we have any details on the staffer and how careless the actions were?  It's hard for me to formulate an opinion without knowing how egregious the actions were.  It is possible that responsible people contract covid as well. Masks reduce the possiblity but they aren't full proof.  If the staffer was acting relatively responsibly and just got unlucky--that's one thing.  If the staffer was acting very carelessly and the organization failed in its oversight--that's a different story. 

Some kind of strength coach. Thought I saw Asst. Strength Coach but not sure. From what I read he was pretty flagrant about not wearing his mask  - but this is from Twitter so who knows how accurate. If it is, have to figure he’s out of work soon. 

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I don't see any way the NFL makes the Ravens forfeit the game, and like most, I'd rather see them find a way to play it.  If it has to happen next Monday and Tuesday with the Ravens using a lot of backups and practice squad players, so be it. 

Baltimore/Dallas next week can then be moved to the following Sunday. 

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They're professionals and big boys who, even though some of them might not get paid big bucks.....they have a responsibility to follow the rules set forth by the business they are in.  If they didn't want to make the commitment that the league wanted them to make...they shouldn't have the job.

I can respect the idea that the league bent over backwards when bye weeks were available; allowing for a little finagling of the schedule.  It should have been made clear by the league that when your bye week is over....you no longer get that luxury and, if you have a COVID problem....you must play with the hand you are dealt or forfeit*.....with a additional penalty to the organization (draft pick/fine).

 

* I think the league and owners, with this season being the way it is.....should have made clear that the players get paid if there is a forfeit; particularly the team that isn't causing the forfeit.  

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It’s a pandemic people are going to test positive regardless of what protocols the NFL puts in place.  Fine teams is they blatantly ignore a protocol, not sure if that’s the case here, but you can’t have a team forfeit.  This is going to happen again and again until we have a vaccine in place.  Unfortunately it’s the world we live in right now.

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39 minutes ago, Pipes said:

It’s a pandemic people are going to test positive regardless of what protocols the NFL puts in place.  Fine teams is they blatantly ignore a protocol, not sure if that’s the case here, but you can’t have a team forfeit.  This is going to happen again and again until we have a vaccine in place.  Unfortunately it’s the world we live in right now.

Thanks to your avatar, I totally read this in Mike Erhmantrout's voice in my head.  And it works. 

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Cancel a week of the season or move playoffs back a week allowing for a bye/makeup week. Will these games affect playoff qualifiers/playoff byes. Will there be anymore issues? Players and families need to be protected from ownership/ management malfeasance. This is entertainment. Lead by example. Strange dangerous times we live in and future health issues from Covid might be surprisingly worse than most are aware of. 

 

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8 hours ago, Thunderlips said:

They're professionals and big boys who, even though some of them might not get paid big bucks.....they have a responsibility to follow the rules set forth by the business they are in.  If they didn't want to make the commitment that the league wanted them to make...they shouldn't have the job.

I can respect the idea that the league bent over backwards when bye weeks were available; allowing for a little finagling of the schedule.  It should have been made clear by the league that when your bye week is over....you no longer get that luxury and, if you have a COVID problem....you must play with the hand you are dealt or forfeit*.....with a additional penalty to the organization (draft pick/fine).

 

* I think the league and owners, with this season being the way it is.....should have made clear that the players get paid if there is a forfeit; particularly the team that isn't causing the forfeit.  

:goodposting:

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I am not clear about the week 18 scenario. 

So if the league moves it to Week 18, does the following happen?

1) Playoffs are pushed back a week.

2) Playoff byes are eliminated

3) One team added to the playoff fields to compensate for loss of bye. In both conferences.

I could be wrong about this, and I often am, but as of this week the Ravens are on the outside looking in. They would be the team to benefit from playoff field expansion in the AFC.

The Steelers, as it stands right now would be the team that loses a playoff bye, as would the Saints. Got to keep to even between the conferences. The Steelers have already lost their regular season bye due to no fault of their own.

It seems like the main beneficiary of a week 18 is the team that is responsible for housing our current predicament. But they are very publicly taking corrective measures- punishing the protocol breaker (But keeping it in house) Closing down the team facility (until Monday) they should be applauded for taking decisive actions. However a cynical man, which, btw, I clearly am, would look at these actions and say they are clearly "working the Refs" to gain an advantage for their team.

Would John Harbaugh do that?

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Class Dismissed said:

I am not clear about the week 18 scenario. 

So if the league moves it to Week 18, does the following happen?

1) Playoffs are pushed back a week.

2) Playoff byes are eliminated

3) One team added to the playoff fields to compensate for loss of bye. In both conferences.

I could be wrong about this, and I often am, but as of this week the Ravens are on the outside looking in. They would be the team to benefit from playoff field expansion in the AFC.

The Steelers, as it stands right now would be the team that loses a playoff bye, as would the Saints. Got to keep to even between the conferences. The Steelers have already lost their regular season bye due to no fault of their own.

It seems like the main beneficiary of a week 18 is the team that is responsible for housing our current predicament. But they are very publicly taking corrective measures- punishing the protocol breaker (But keeping it in house) Closing down the team facility (until Monday) they should be applauded for taking decisive actions. However a cynical man, which, btw, I clearly am, would look at these actions and say they are clearly "working the Refs" to gain an advantage for their team.

Would John Harbaugh do that?

 

 

 

The league has said in the event of an irregularity they will expand the playoffs to 16 teams and no byes. Owners had a vote on it. There won’t be a week 18. 

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I think the NFL will stick to the play with the hand you are dealt.
 

However, the Ravens have a legitimate breakout on their hands.  Right now they can’t tell who is contagious and who isn’t. With that being the case, no way the NFL allows that team to interact with airport, transportation, hotel, stadium employees, the Steelers and general public until they have this sorted out which will take time. 
 

Due to the Ravens screwing this up so badly, I am all for fines and draft pick losses.  

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7 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

I think the NFL will stick to the play with the hand you are dealt.
 

However, the Ravens have a legitimate breakout on their hands.  Right now they can’t tell who is contagious and who isn’t. With that being the case, no way the NFL allows that team to interact with airport, transportation, hotel, stadium employees, the Steelers and general public until they have this sorted out which will take time. 
 

Due to the Ravens screwing this up so badly, I am all for fines and draft pick losses.  

I think you underestimate how much the league values money.  With how this has progressed from early season situations (one confirmed positive “now puts this week’s game is in jeopardy, NFL exploring all options”) to games in recent weeks (numerous positives from multiple teams “tough #### Niners, field a team or forfeit!”), this Ravens-Steelers game will be held.  The NFL doesn’t care about COVID, at least, not as much as they care about the dough.

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I've seen articles saying the Ravens organization does not think the game can be played.  Of course that's their position, they will be at a disadvantage.

I've also seen that they think Lamar Jackson got it during the game.  There is absolutely no way to know that.  This is their way to try to get the game moved back by putting fear out there that other guys could get it during the game if it is played on Sunday.  Shameful tactics by the Ravens, but not surprising.  

I think the game should be played Sunday as they made other teams do.

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Ravens should forfeit.

Separately, the Ravens should also be fined and docked draft picks.  That's in addition to the forfeit.

I've been arguing all season that the "week 18" solution is infeasible and wildly unfair.  Why should Pittsburgh be punished for some other team violating protocol?

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The NFL made the Raiders play short-handed and issued fines and took away a draft pick.  The NFL cannot continue with the favoritism towards certain teams while trying to screw others.  The Ravens need to play the game, be fined, and lose a draft pick.   The NFL started their punishment path and needs to continue down that road.   

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The NFL should follow its established rules for a situation like this.

The NFL never bothered to actually establish protocols for this season besides making it up as they go along.

So I do not think it Ravens should be assigned arbitrary punishment.

Rhetorical question: should the Patriots have been punished for flying two planes to KC, including one plane with all people exposed to the virus, clearly exposing the non-infected to the infected? What sort of rational infection control protocol is this?

The NFL's protocols are clearly focused on making money.

 

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13 hours ago, travdogg said:

I voted no on all 3. I think the Ravens should just have to play with their backups/practice squad. Too bad for them, but its a completely fair solution. Should have made the Titans do that a earlier this year too.

I'm with this.  

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No they shouldn't have to forfeit. Play the game Tuesday is necessary and move Baltimore's Thursday game to Sunday Week 13.

They should be fined or lose draft picks. Need some flexibility during a pandemic, but need to be fair to all teams. Play week 18 if the game NEEDS to be played for playoff implications. If not, skip it.

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The NFL got around the Titans issue by publicly stating that the team didn’t “willingly” break protocol which is complete BS. 
 

They will bend over backward to put up a unified public front that the NFL is being cautious and this was an accident. Maybe later on they hand out punishment but they won’t have to forfeit. 

 

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They shouldn't forfeit the game and they shouldn't play week 18.  The postponement until Sunday (or Monday or Tuesday if necessary) should be to ensure the breakout is contained within the Ravens locker room and to prevent COVID positive Raven's players from being on the field when they play the Steelers.  So yeah, if that means the Ravens have to play with practice squad players that's what they'll have to do.

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13 hours ago, travdogg said:

In addition to the 49ers and Raiders, the Patriots were forced to play without the Chiefs as well, without multiple important layers, namely Cam Newton.

Why should the Ravens get a break? They were almost certainly going to lose anyway. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing full workload Gus Edwards and maybe RG3 can channel the past for a week?

Agree. Best way to punish Baltimore is make them play with practice squad players and get murdered 50-0.

That will leave a mark.

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14 hours ago, Iceman03 said:

For those that don’t know, since no one seems to want to be up and up about the reporting of it, a Ravens staffer broke protocol and is believed to have caused this super spreader event. Lamar tested positive today and for whatever reason the league doesn’t want to hold the Ravens to the same standard as the 49ers. I’ve made the poll bland and removed my bias (I am a Steelers fan). Feel free to discuss.

As a Steeler fan I would think you would be completely against a forfeit. I’m not a steeler fan but I would like to see them go undefeated just to stop those Miami guys from gloating each year. If the Steelers only win 15 + a forfeit, the Miami guys will still be better. 

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I don’t care too much about an undefeated season, I’m more concerned about the playoffs which is why I am so against a week 18 game.

it would complete BS for a one or two seeded team to have to play a makeup game (which may or may not be meaningful) while lower seeded teams get to rest.

Either play the game this week or cancel it outright and go with winning percentage to determine seeding.

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46 minutes ago, BearsFan4Life said:

No they shouldn't have to forfeit. Play the game Tuesday is necessary and move Baltimore's Thursday game to Sunday Week 13.

They should be fined or lose draft picks. Need some flexibility during a pandemic, but need to be fair to all teams. Play week 18 if the game NEEDS to be played for playoff implications. If not, skip it.

If I am the Steelers.......I would be #####ing about the short week.....

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40 minutes ago, Class Dismissed said:

If I am the Steelers.......I would be #####ing about the short week.....

The Steelers have gotten screwed twice this year...10-0 stop whining, you knew this year was going to be different. Be happy your are even playing at this point as many thought the NFL wouldn't even have gotten this far into the season. Sure it suck it affects you, but it were someone else you wouldn't care.

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1 hour ago, skinsrule05 said:

As a Steeler fan I would think you would be completely against a forfeit. I’m not a steeler fan but I would like to see them go undefeated just to stop those Miami guys from gloating each year. If the Steelers only win 15 + a forfeit, the Miami guys will still be better. 

Actually that will still put the Steelers ahead of that Miami team. They didn't play 16 games in 1972. 

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14 minutes ago, BearsFan4Life said:

The Steelers have gotten screwed twice this year...10-0 stop whining, you knew this year was going to be different. Be happy your are even playing at this point as many thought the NFL wouldn't even have gotten this far into the season. Sure it suck it affects you, but it were someone else you wouldn't care.

You might not care if it was a team other than yours getting screwed.

But lots of people who aren't Steelers fans don't like seeing how the NFL is handling this, including me.

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1 hour ago, NotSmart said:

You might not care if it was a team other than yours getting screwed.

But lots of people who aren't Steelers fans don't like seeing how the NFL is handling this, including me.

Agree the NFL is bungling this one up.  Play the game.. Wish my Bears could be shut down right now, better than watching the train wreck that is called an offense on the field.

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15 hours ago, travdogg said:

Why 8? Pretty sure Dallas didn't have 8 this week. Could always play a TE at OT or some other solution. 

Canceling altogether runs into another issue. The Steelers are undefeated, and could in theory be the 1st team ever to go 19-0. Would they want to risk not having that?

I believe there is a rule that you must have 8 active offensive linemen on game day.  Of course practice squad guys that get called up can fill that - they don't have to be on the active roster as of today.

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