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Ravens/Steelers Debacle - POLL INSIDE


Ravens/Steelers Debacle  

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23 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

The Ravens had 23 guys on COVID yesterday morning.

True, but it's a misleading number because some of those guys were already on IR or they were on the practice squad. The total could end up being 12 or lower (if players test negative) on Wednesday:

TE Mark Andrews
LB Matthew Judon
WR Willie Snead
QB Lamar Jackson
DT Justin Madubuike
FB Patrick Ricard
DE Jihad Ward
DE Calais Campbell
OL Patrick Mekari
OL Matt Skura
LB Pernell McPhee
LS Morgan Cox
RB J.K. Dobbins (eligible to be activated 12/2)
RB Mark Ingram (eligible to be activated 12/2)
DT Brandon Williams (maybe eligible to be activated 12/2)
QB Trace McSorley (maybe eligible to be activated)
LB Jaylon Ferguson (activated 11/30)
OL D.J. Fluker (activated 11/30)
DT Broderick Washington (activated 11/30)
OL Will Holden (PS)
CB Iman Marshall (IR)
CB Terrell Bonds (IR)
CB Tavon Young (IR)
CB Khalil Dorsey (IR)

Edited by Sea Duck
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I voted no on all 3. I think the Ravens should just have to play with their backups/practice squad. Too bad for them, but its a completely fair solution. Should have made the Titans do that a earlier

No/No/Yes Play it Week 18. Point fingers all you want. Nobody is forfeiting a game. The shield would never allow it. Move the whole freaking league and playoffs back a week. To me it’s inevi

I'm sure the Broncos appreciate the league's flexibility in moving games around to minimize the competitive effect of covid outbreaks.

On 11/26/2020 at 9:21 PM, Penguin said:

Ross Tucker @RossTuckerNFL

Reminder that if Ravens have to forfeit the Steelers game then none of the players for either team get paid which is the LAST thing most of those guys want.

The ravens should have to give the Steelers their checks.

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10 minutes ago, Franknbeans said:

The ravens should have to give the Steelers their checks.

Thought I saw somewhere that this was actually a misnomer and that no agreement between the NFL and NFLPA directly speaks to what happens to checks should a game be cancelled or forfeited.  

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12 minutes ago, geneyus said:

With RG3 at quarterback, these two guys will be huge additions they didn't have before. 

An OL, FB, any breathing TE, and a defense would help him more. They'd be ok with Gus Edwards at RB.

The only reason I mentioned it was because I saw a post in one of these threads hinting that the NFL moved the game back so Baltimore could get Ingram & Dobbins back, which is ridiculous. The Ravens could weather those two not playing better than they could ANY other two starters that will miss this game.

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@AdamSchefter

Baltimore’s team flight is leaving, game is still on, but the Ravens did have two more positive tests today, per sources. It is thought to be one player, one staff, and in the words of one source “not unexpected and not a concern for the game.”
 

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14 minutes ago, whole-show said:

@AdamSchefter

Baltimore’s team flight is leaving, game is still on, but the Ravens did have two more positive tests today, per sources. It is thought to be one player, one staff, and in the words of one source “not unexpected and not a concern for the game.”
 

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:lmao:

If the 25th or so positive case on a single team within a week is “not a concern for the game,” then nothing ever will be. My word.  

Edited by SayWhat?
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11 minutes ago, whole-show said:

@AdamSchefter

Baltimore’s team flight is leaving, game is still on, but the Ravens did have two more positive tests today, per sources. It is thought to be one player, one staff, and in the words of one source “not unexpected and not a concern for the game.”
 

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I mean, I agree that it was not unexpected.

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12 minutes ago, Cobbler1 said:

If there’s one way to stop an outbreak it’s definitely cramming a whole team together on a plane while a player or 2 are almost certain to be carrying the virus and then having them go tackle another team for 3.5 hours!

The idea is that those two were part of the already known higher risk group and were isolating and not on the plane. It would only be if the positives were among the low risk group that it would be a higher cause for concern.

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4 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

The idea is that those two were part of the already known higher risk group and were isolating and not on the plane. It would only be if the positives were among the low risk group that it would be a higher cause for concern.

That would make a degree of sense. Where do you see that?

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7 hours ago, Cobbler1 said:

They missed like 10 days. Of course they’re in game day shape.

I don't agree with your general tone and tenor this thread, but if anything, they're likely healed up a bit. Their bodies are probably thanking them.

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I've got this, FWIW, it also says there was a walkthrough involved. Everything I have read continues to suggest it's really hard to transmit outdoors, but at least confirms they were not on the plane.

******

NFL Network's Mike Garafolo reports the Ravens are flying to Pittsburgh Tuesday night despite learning of two more positives while on the plane on Tuesday.

Some Ravens are privately expressing "concern" about the Week 12 game on Wednesday, but the NFL is expecting the game to be played, especially with the flight taking off. The two new positives include one player and one staffer, both of whom were identified as potential positives after contact tracing. Neither are traveling, although the player did participate in "socially distant walkthroughs" with the team the last two days. The NFL told those involved that there's "no concern for further spread", which certainly can be debated. With under 24 hours to play, it appears the NFL is going to get this game in.

SOURCE: Mike Garafolo on Twitter

Dec 1, 2020, 7:30 PM ET

******

ETA @Cobbler1 meant to quote you but here is one blurb I saw. Can't vouch for it of course.

Edited by barackdhouse
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38 minutes ago, whole-show said:

@AdamSchefter

Baltimore’s team flight is leaving, game is still on, but the Ravens did have two more positive tests today, per sources. It is thought to be one player, one staff, and in the words of one source “not unexpected and not a concern for the game.”
 

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Why is it not a concern?

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3 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

I've got this, FWIW, it also says there was a walkthrough involved. Everything I have read continues to suggest it's really hard to transmit outdoors, but at least confirms they were not on the plane.

******

NFL Network's Mike Garafolo reports the Ravens are flying to Pittsburgh Tuesday night despite learning of two more positives while on the plane on Tuesday.

Some Ravens are privately expressing "concern" about the Week 12 game on Wednesday, but the NFL is expecting the game to be played, especially with the flight taking off. The two new positives include one player and one staffer, both of whom were identified as potential positives after contact tracing. Neither are traveling, although the player did participate in "socially distant walkthroughs" with the team the last two days. The NFL told those involved that there's "no concern for further spread", which certainly can be debated. With under 24 hours to play, it appears the NFL is going to get this game in.

SOURCE: Mike Garafolo on Twitter

Dec 1, 2020, 7:30 PM ET

******

ETA @Cobbler1 meant to quote you but here is one blurb I saw. Can't vouch for it of course.

Thanks, appreciate it. 

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6 minutes ago, Long Ball Larry said:

Why is it not a concern?

Again the idea is that they weren't on the plane and were already identified as possible positives. Doesn't mean it's not a concern, though, but I think within the parameters of how they've been operating all year, if the player and staff member were already identified, and aren't making the trip, then the only concern are those two walkthroughs the last two days, but I think at this point they are operating under the assumption that outdoor transmission is rare.  Plus the walkthrough was socially distant. According to one reporter for NFL Network anyway.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it isn't a concern but it's incredibly minimal compared to if it were a player that hadn't been expected to turn positive, and that was on the plane. Or a coach/staff member.

Edited by barackdhouse
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Just now, Cobbler1 said:

I could see that. Illogical thinking triggers me. It’s rampant in here.

I think it was calling IK stupid. There's one thing he isn't, and it's that. Perhaps his wry humor was just being missed. I didn't think his point about the Broncos loving all the accommodations was all that far off. It seems the NFL has bent over every which way to make this game happen and didn't lift a finger while a man was dying (metaphorically) to help out the Broncos. You're insisting that it was within the league's set forth protocol but the logical rejoinder could be that everything is so arbitrary anyway as to be removed by league fiat if Goodell wants to. That's basically how they're operating under COVID, which is under the fiat rule of one guy, really. So it's hardly illogical, given that, that IK is saying that the Broncos got the proverbial shaft.

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13 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I think it was calling IK stupid. There's one thing he isn't, and it's that. Perhaps his wry humor was just being missed. I didn't think his point about the Broncos loving all the accommodations was all that far off. It seems the NFL has bent over every which way to make this game happen and didn't lift a finger while a man was dying (metaphorically) to help out the Broncos. You're insisting that it was within the league's set forth protocol but the logical rejoinder could be that everything is so arbitrary anyway as to be removed by league fiat if Goodell wants to. That's basically how they're operating under COVID, which is under the fiat rule of one guy, really. So it's hardly illogical, given that, that IK is saying that the Broncos got the proverbial shaft.

I said he was saying the same stupid stuff over and over, not that he was stupid. During one of the first times he tried to equate the outbreaks I crafted a much longer response explaining how they were different. He didn’t even respond to it and keeps posting as if they’re the same. That’s being deliberately ignorant and I find it very annoying. Of course Goodell can do anything he wants to but the situations are markedly different. Any beef the Broncos have has nothing to do with what the league has done to try to get the Ravens game in. 

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2 hours ago, Long Ball Larry said:
2 hours ago, whole-show said:

@AdamSchefter

Baltimore’s team flight is leaving, game is still on, but the Ravens did have two more positive tests today, per sources. It is thought to be one player, one staff, and in the words of one source “not unexpected and not a concern for the game.”
 

Link

Why is it not a concern?

It's either a player on IR or it's a player who was already on the COVID list for having close contact with someone who tested positive, imo.

edit: see below.

Edited by Sea Duck
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2 minutes ago, Cobbler1 said:

 Any beef the Broncos have has nothing to do with what the league has done to try to get the Ravens game in. 

Sure it does. Perhaps you're missing how arbitrarily they're doing these things. The protocol itself is arbitrary. And theoretically, Denver has everything to do with the treatment of the Ravens. It's equality before the league as a franchise of it. Everything is interlocked from the scheduling aspect down to the following of rules. You're telling me that the league couldn't have waited a day for Denver to clear. They've moved this game back now five days because a strength and conditioning coach got everybody infected against NFL policy.

The more I type, the more I think you're being obtuse. Hopefully not deliberately.

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9 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Sure it does. Perhaps you're missing how arbitrarily they're doing these things. The protocol itself is arbitrary. And theoretically, Denver has everything to do with the treatment of the Ravens. It's equality before the league as a franchise of it. Everything is interlocked from the scheduling aspect down to the following of rules. You're telling me that the league couldn't have waited a day for Denver to clear. They've moved this game back now five days because a strength and conditioning coach got everybody infected against NFL policy.

The more I type, the more I think you're being obtuse. Hopefully not deliberately.

Will you acknowledge that not all outbreaks are the same? The Niners had to have 2-3 players isolate prior to the Packer game due to close contact with a positive case. Game not moved. The Titans had a game moved entirely and another one moved to a Tuesday due a large scale outbreak. Which one does the Broncos resemble more? What about the Ravens? The NFL doesn’t care about what the outbreak does to your roster’s competitiveness. They care about the spread or perception of spread of the virus as it relates to their product. Wanna get mad about that? Have at it! We all hate Covid. But the notion that the NFL did the Ravens any favors for the love of the Ravens and didn’t because they don’t care about Denver is beyond silly.

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No, not all outbreaks are the same. At the same time, when there's two violations of NFL policy and one gets treated wildly different than the other in terms of accommodations made, it seems that there is something else at play about which to speculate. It doesn't seem like anybody's being illogical here. They're complaining, at heart, about disparate treatments of two guilty teams. I have no idea how the Ravens outbreak is treated less stringently than the Broncos seemingly isolated decision to go watch film together at the facility.

I don't know. I don't feel like nitpicking all night. It looks bad for the league and doesn't pass a basic smell test. You can defend it all you want. Have the floor.

Edited by rockaction
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21 minutes ago, rockaction said:

No, not all outbreaks are the same. At the same time, when there's two violations of NFL policy and one gets treated wildly different than the other in terms of accommodations made, it seems that there is something else at play about which to speculate. It doesn't seem like anybody's being illogical here. They're complaining, at heart, about disparate treatments of two guilty teams. I have no idea how the Ravens outbreak is treated less stringently than the Broncos seemingly isolated decision to go watch film together at the facility.

I don't know. I don't feel like nitpicking all night. It looks bad for the league and doesn't pass a basic smell test. You can defend it all you want. Have the floor.

You realize all outbreaks aren’t the same but want them treated the same? That’s akin to biting into an uncut pineapple and complaining to your grocer because you didn’t have to cut up the apple you bought last week in order to eat it. You’re saying your doctor isn’t being fair because when your wife cut her forehead the doc closed it with that glue skin stuff and he’s making you undergo surgery and several weeks in a cast for the compound fracture in your arm. That’s the logic you’re keeping company with.

 

Is it fair that the Ravens/Titans screwed up more and got accommodated more than the Niners/Broncos? No it’s not. This year was never going to be fair. But talking about playing favorites and smell tests? That’s nonsense.

Edited by Cobbler1
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2 hours ago, barackdhouse said:

I've got this, FWIW, it also says there was a walkthrough involved. Everything I have read continues to suggest it's really hard to transmit outdoors, but at least confirms they were not on the plane.

******

NFL Network's Mike Garafolo reports the Ravens are flying to Pittsburgh Tuesday night despite learning of two more positives while on the plane on Tuesday.

Some Ravens are privately expressing "concern" about the Week 12 game on Wednesday, but the NFL is expecting the game to be played, especially with the flight taking off. The two new positives include one player and one staffer, both of whom were identified as potential positives after contact tracing. Neither are traveling, although the player did participate in "socially distant walkthroughs" with the team the last two days. The NFL told those involved that there's "no concern for further spread", which certainly can be debated. With under 24 hours to play, it appears the NFL is going to get this game in.

SOURCE: Mike Garafolo on Twitter

Dec 1, 2020, 7:30 PM ET

******

ETA @Cobbler1 meant to quote you but here is one blurb I saw. Can't vouch for it of course.

I mean I don't want this to take place in a fake week 18 and I don't want 8 teams and no bye in the playoffs, but this game should not be played this week.  There is uncontrolled spread still.  This is just dumb on the NFL.  Cancel the game and if it would have playoff implications, play it week 18 and move the playoffs back.  Like I said before, there aren't stadium conflicts to deal with this year really.

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3 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:
1 hour ago, Sea Duck said:

It's either a player on IR or it's a player who was already on the COVID list for having close contact with someone who tested positive.

But that player participated in a walkthrough with the rest of the team.  

You are correct. ESPN is reporting that the player was rookie backup safety Geno Stone, but that "the Ravens operated the last few days acting as though everyone is positive. Walk-through workouts were masked, distanced and outdoors to reduce risk, basically eliminating close contacts."

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4 hours ago, rockaction said:

Chuck Pagano looking baffled it didn't work about sums up his head coaching.

And the wide receiver operating at center (in and of itself = :lmao:) who snaps the ball and then sits there like a statue,  which was either (a) a terribly conceived attempt to seduce the defense into not believing that he actually snapped the ball -or- (b) an intentional sacrifice of the quarterback to the football Gods as the defenders completely annihilate him.  :lmao::lmao::lmao:

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9 hours ago, Cobbler1 said:

You realize all outbreaks aren’t the same but want them treated the same? That’s akin to biting into an uncut pineapple and complaining to your grocer because you didn’t have to cut up the apple you bought last week in order to eat it. You’re saying your doctor isn’t being fair because when your wife cut her forehead the doc closed it with that glue skin stuff and he’s making you undergo surgery and several weeks in a cast for the compound fracture in your arm. That’s the logic you’re keeping company with.

 

Is it fair that the Ravens/Titans screwed up more and got accommodated more than the Niners/Broncos? No it’s not. This year was never going to be fair. But talking about playing favorites and smell tests? That’s nonsense.

I'm okay with cuts and compound fractures being treated differently. I'm just not sure a football team with no QB is analogous to a cut. That said, Denver received no "treatment" for their cut whatsoever and the foreseeable outcome of that decision was a public humiliation and a loss and that's exactly what they got. Maybe the better analogy is that the Ravens have better health insurance?

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56 minutes ago, habsfan said:

I'm okay with cuts and compound fractures being treated differently. I'm just not sure a football team with no QB is analogous to a cut. That said, Denver received no "treatment" for their cut whatsoever and the foreseeable outcome of that decision was a public humiliation and a loss and that's exactly what they got. Maybe the better analogy is that the Ravens have better health insurance?

Public humiliation? Teams lose by 28+ all the time. The Raiders didn’t even need to lose all their qbs to endure that the same day to an inferior team. The point is the outbreaks were very different. Expecting the same response to them is silly. Acting like the league has some reason to favorite the Ravens/Titans over the Niners/Broncos is even more silly.

 

Edit- I’m not even sure we disagree. If Denver or the 49ers want to be upset about their situations, their “cuts” not being treated, that’s fine. It’s just not comparable to the Ravens/Titans and those accommodations shouldn’t be used as a point of reference for how those other teams were treated. Entirely different situations. Get upset about the NFL not caring about teams being able to field competitive teams on gameday if you want. But don’t compare it to the NFL wanting to take precautions against teams with massive outbreaks taking the field while their outbreaks are ongoing.

Edited by Cobbler1
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13 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

Dobbins and Ingram did not travel with the team yesterday.  

I don't believe they were allowed to travel with the team yesterday as part of the protocols since they could not come off the COVID list till today.  My understanding was that they would have to travel separately (possibly by car) to get to Pittsburgh and if they tested negative today they could be activated.

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4 hours ago, PinkydaPimp said:

So whats the scoop.  Is Gus starting today?  Will the other RBs be back next week for sure?  Trying to figure out if i can drop Gus Edwards now. 

ESPN is reporting that Edwards will start and that Dobbins and Ingram will be inactive.

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1 hour ago, Godsbrother said:

Steelers place center Maurkice Pouncey on the Covid-19 list.  Apparently he is the only one tested positive (or in close contact) so game is on for this afternoon

Yet another positive COVID test, just hours before the game.  But nobody else was exposed (:lmao:), so no worries.  GAME ON! 

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1 hour ago, SayWhat? said:

Yet another positive COVID test, just hours before the game.  But nobody else was exposed (:lmao:), so no worries.  GAME ON! 

He very well may have tested positive or he may have been around someone that has it.  They have not said yet.

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