Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

When is a tackle a tackle?


Recommended Posts

Minor debate in my IDP league, hoping some of y’all can settle it. 

Fortunately for me as commish there isn’t a game on the line over it - margin of defeat is far greater than what we award for a tackle. But helpful to me as commish for future such rulings.

The play: Patrick Mahomes in game-kill mode at the end of Bucs/Chiefs. Mahomes runs a few yards for the 1st, and instead of running out of bounds, he slides, giving himself up. He was untouched & the defender (White) was 6’ away. 

Had Mahomes run OOB, I don’t think they would have awarded White the TKL since he was so far away, though occasionally I’ve seen that awarded a TKL (I won a ‘ship on a tackle exactly like that by a DB)

but when a QB slides, I thought that ended the play. Even if someone falls on him while he’s sliding they don’t usually award a tackle for that, no? 

Yet they gave White a tackle for the Mahomes slide. And White never touched Mahomes.

it’s weird & my league is about 50-50 on it.

so....was that a tackle? :unsure:

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know the official word on this and didn't see the play in question.  It seems to me that when a QB gives themselves up it's because they're about to be tackled and don't want to get hammered.  So, it makes sense to give the tackle to the nearest defender.  The NBA gives a basket to the nearest player on the scoring team, even if a player from the defending team actually scores the basket.  They have to give it to someone.

  • Thinking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

🤔

This is the official NFL rule on slides:

First, is the play dead after a QB slides, regardless of whether he is hit?

If the QB slides feet-first, then yes, the play is dead.

Second, if it is dead on the slide, is there a penalty for hitting the QB after the slide?

Not if the defender has "committed himself, and the contact is unavoidable."

Rule 7, Section 2 of the NFL Rulebookdescribe a "Dead Ball."

Article 1 describes when an official shall declare the ball dead. Letter (d) states:

When a runner declares himself down by sliding feet first on the ground. The ball is dead the instant the runner touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet;

Additionally, a note states:

Defenders are required to treat a sliding runner as they would a runner who is down by contact.

 


 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know. Sometimes they award a tackle and sometimes they don't. I'm not even sure that official scorers know what an assisted tackle is either. That seems pretty inconsistent, too.

I did notice that White lost about 4 tackles on penalties fwiw.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, TheWinz said:

This doesn't sound like something you want FF'ers to have to decide on their own.  Let the boxscore do it for you.  

Yeah, that’s easier said than done if someone loses a championship over a phantom tackle. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, TheWinz said:

This doesn't sound like something you want FF'ers to have to decide on their own.  Let the boxscore do it for you.  

Agreed. I'm quite certain (not positive) that I've seen a couple of my IDPers get credit for a tackle when they force the ball carrier out of bounds. Seems like a similar scenario.

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Yeah, that’s easier said than done if someone loses a championship over a phantom tackle. 

I second Winzee. You go by the official scorer's view of the game. You shouldn't be involved at all. It's like the Tannehill non-pass to Henry the other day. That might cost someone in our league a game over in Summerpalooza, though I'm not positive of what happened. I happen to believe this person when he claims the play in question was likely borderline. But I think you go by the scorer's judgment, not yours. They're the experts. And they also hand down a final decision and in doing so, it lifts the arbiter of the result out of any potential for bias or chicanery within your FF universe. I personally remember that I lost a half sack earlier in the year to what I thought was terrible judgment by a scorer, who I actually thought missed a bunch of stuff in the game. Yet it stood because MFL uses the official scorer and our league sets rules to that effect. 

eta* Looks like I third Winz

eta2* And I've also seen the out of bounds credited with a tackle, too. Nothing new here on that front, really.

Edited by rockaction
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

🤔

This is the official NFL rule on slides:

 


 

That has nothing about the official scoring of tackles.  That is rules for the official on the field not the scorekeeper.  Those two things are sometimes vastly different it what is awarded.  The guys on the field don't care about if a guy gets credit for a tackle or not.  They are only concerned with stopping the play of the field.  Different focus of the play.  

  • Thinking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Twenty-Four Eighty-Four said:

Agreed. I'm quite certain (not positive) that I've seen a couple of my IDPers get credit for a tackle when they force the ball carrier out of bounds. Seems like a similar scenario.

And it's a statistic that changes later in the week. With idps in our league tackles is always the largest source of score change on Thursdays. It seems to be more of a judgment call and anything else. But unless you're going to go through the whole season and judge each tackle yourself I'm not sure how you could single out one tackle for review. 

  • Like 2
  • Love 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

In the FBGs IDP Roundup podcast, they have talked about how widely different stadium stat crews are around the league and list which crews are "generous" and which ones are "stingy".  Regardless, i do believe all stats go thru a review and there are many Stat Change Updates that are usually released on THURS..........however, i heard that since there will not be a THUR game this week that maybe the Stat Changes will be released on FRI this week.

I would stick with the league provided stat and also make sure you know if any stat changes are published later this week AND IF THE LEAGUE WEBSITE YOU ARE USING IF THEY AUTO UPDATE SCORES or .......IF IT IS A MANUAL COMMISSIONER ACCEPTANCE.  
(edit to add:   I think YAHOO leagues default to an auto-update)

Edited by Nemesis
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Yeah, that’s easier said than done if someone loses a championship over a phantom tackle. 

No it is not.  The league should go by the official box score from the NFL.  There is no gray area.  Did the NFL/website give credit for a tackle?  If yes, then he gets the point.  If not, then he does not.  There really isn't anything up for discussion because nobody in your league is going to watch every play of every game to figure out these tiny differences.  That is why you use the NFL official statistics which should be sourced by your league website.  

 

I am not really sure what is in question?  Are you planning on going back and voting on every single questionable tackle award for every game every week?  Because that is the only thing to do if you aren't going to use the official NFL stats.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Gally said:

That has nothing about the official scoring of tackles.  That is rules for the official on the field not the scorekeeper.  Those two things are sometimes vastly different it what is awarded.  The guys on the field don't care about if a guy gets credit for a tackle or not.  They are only concerned with stopping the play of the field.  Different focus of the play.  

For the “chase a player out of bounds” I could see it being a judgement call. 

A QB giving himself up with a slide seems pretty cut & dry.

if the play is dead when his butt hits the ground, how can any tackle be awarded?

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

1 minute ago, Gally said:

I am not really sure what is in question?  Are you planning on going back and voting on every single questionable tackle award for every game every week?  Because that is the only thing to do if you aren't going to use the official NFL stats.  

just trying to figure out what the NFL rules are, so we can go by them.

The question here is: what is a tackle

That was articulated pretty clearly. If a QB gives himself up, is that a tackle? 

If not, why would one be awarded? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

For the “chase a player out of bounds” I could see it being a judgement call. 

A QB giving himself up with a slide seems pretty cut & dry.

if the play is dead when his butt hits the ground, how can any tackle be awarded?

Depends on what the official statistical definition of "tackle" is.  If every play needs a tackle then when a player gives himself up who are they giving the tackle to?  Likely the closest player that caused him to give himself up.  

 

My bigger gripe is that on a strip sack the player that knocks the ball loose gets credit for a tackle, sack and forced fumble.  However, they do not get credit for a tackle for loss.  I cannot understand how they get credit for a tackle but not a tackle for loss.  Seems like it's an all or nothing thing.  I can see not awarding a tackle because technically he didn't tackle the QB he just knocked the ball loose.  So no tackle should be awarded.  However, if you award a tackle then you should also award a tackle for loss because by definition a sack is a tackle for loss (or no gain in some instances).

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Hot Diggity Dog said:

If my opponent wanted a league review of a "game winning" tackle i would demand a teview of every idp in that game and their tackles.  It is part of the game, bad calls, phantom spots, just have to go with the official scorer.

This isn’t what’s happening.

we are all merely curious about this specific play.

We are actually all in agreement that our understanding of a QB slide was that the play was over. 

Some believe the tackle should be awarded, some believe it should not. We’re 7-5 on that in favor of “should not be”.

At this point it is merely an attempt to understand the NFL rules. No one’s demanding anything. My league is cooler than that.  lol 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Gally said:

Depends on what the official statistical definition of "tackle" is.  If every play needs a tackle then when a player gives himself up who are they giving the tackle to?  Likely the closest player that caused him to give himself up. 

My bigger gripe is that on a strip sack the player that knocks the ball loose gets credit for a tackle, sack and forced fumble.  However, they do not get credit for a tackle for loss.  I cannot understand how they get credit for a tackle but not a tackle for loss.  Seems like it's an all or nothing thing.  I can see not awarding a tackle because technically he didn't tackle the QB he just knocked the ball loose.  So no tackle should be awarded.  However, if you award a tackle then you should also award a tackle for loss because by definition a sack is a tackle for loss (or no gain in some instances).

This makes me painfully aware that I'm not up to snuff on our league's multi-dimensional aspects of a play. I'm not sure most guys would be. Do sacks count as tackle for losses, too? Why should they? I've been trying to figure it out all year. Color me IDP confused...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 

just trying to figure out what the NFL rules are, so we can go by them.

The question here is: what is a tackle

That was articulated pretty clearly. If a QB gives himself up, is that a tackle? 

If not, why would one be awarded? 

The NFL goes by whatever the official statistician awards the player.  That is clear.  You guys defining a tackle really has no bearing on the situation.  Really the NFL's definition of a tackle really has no bearing.  It all comes down to did a player get credit for a tackle by the official scorer.  If so, then he gets the point.  If not, then he doesn't.  Unfortunately for IDP's you are at the mercy of the scorekeeper otherwise you can gripe about 98% of all tackle scoring each game.  It's not worth the headache.  Just have the NFL official scoring as the official scoring for your league and then there is no debate at all.  

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

This isn’t what’s happening.

we are all merely curious about this specific play.

We are actually all in agreement that our understanding of a QB slide was that the play was over. 

Some believe the tackle should be awarded, some believe it should not. We’re 7-5 on that in favor of “should not be”.

At this point it is merely an attempt to understand the NFL rules. No one’s demanding anything. My league is cooler than that.  lol 

I think the poster that had the rules as a different entity than official credited scoring makes sense. The rules of being down don't care whether there's an assist on a tackle, but yet scoring and posterity demands it. You're inextricably linking two things that don't need to be.  

Edited by rockaction
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Gally said:

Depends on what the official statistical definition of "tackle" is.  If every play needs a tackle then when a player gives himself up who are they giving the tackle to?  Likely the closest player that caused him to give himself up.  

 

My bigger gripe is that on a strip sack the player that knocks the ball loose gets credit for a tackle, sack and forced fumble.  However, they do not get credit for a tackle for loss.  I cannot understand how they get credit for a tackle but not a tackle for loss.  Seems like it's an all or nothing thing.  I can see not awarding a tackle because technically he didn't tackle the QB he just knocked the ball loose.  So no tackle should be awarded.  However, if you award a tackle then you should also award a tackle for loss because by definition a sack is a tackle for loss (or no gain in some instances).

I agree. Unfortunately we’ve never used TFL specifically because of the “IDP Holy Grail” play you described above. We all felt it was already so valuable. 

every year I lobby the league to add TFL, because I believe it should be worth more than a TKL if the dude loses yardage. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Gally said:

The NFL goes by whatever the official statistician awards the player.  That is clear.  You guys defining a tackle really has no bearing on the situation.  Really the NFL's definition of a tackle really has no bearing.  It all comes down to did a player get credit for a tackle by the official scorer.  If so, then he gets the point.  If not, then he doesn't.  Unfortunately for IDP's you are at the mercy of the scorekeeper otherwise you can gripe about 98% of all tackle scoring each game.  It's not worth the headache.  Just have the NFL official scoring as the official scoring for your league and then there is no debate at all.  

Probably the simplest answer and the one we go by, of course.

but it’s nice to understand the rule on a QB slide.

Unfortunately I’m not a lot closer to that yet. :lol: 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree it shouldn't be a tackle (neither should forcing a player OOB if you don't tackle him IMO) - first because he wasn't actually tackled, and second per your extract, the play is dead. As others have said though, there's no consistency or transparency in IDP with a lot of stuff and I guess that is a barrier to wider uptake.

There are plenty of times when assists aren't awarded when, to me, two players have clearly been required to complete a tackle or halt momentum - but the player who gets there first gets a solo. That is a bit different to what your talking about since there's grey in interpretations of what a solo or assist is, but it's all frustrating. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I think the poster that had the rules different than official credited scoring makes sense. The rules don't care whether there's an assist on a tackle, but yet scoring and posterity demands it. You're inextricably linking two things that don't need to be.  

Unfortunately it’s the league scoring that is linking them.

we all see the play on the field and think we know what a tackle is.

then a mystery tackle like this happens and we question whether it’s because of the statistician scoring the game or our flawed understanding of the rules. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, RushHour said:

I agree it shouldn't be a tackle (neither should forcing a player OOB if you don't tackle him IMO) - first because he wasn't actually tackled, and second per your extract, the play is dead. As others have said though, there's no consistency or transparency in IDP with a lot of stuff and I guess that is a barrier to wider uptake.

There are plenty of times when assists aren't awarded when, to me, two players have clearly been required to complete a tackle or halt momentum - but the player who gets there first gets a solo. That is a bit different to what your talking about since there's grey in interpretations of what a solo or assist is, but it's all frustrating. 

The run OOB is generally pretty clear: if the player is chased OOB, tackle. If the player runs OOB on his own, they’ll usually just say “so and so ran for 5 yards, ran OOB” and no tackle is awarded even if players are near him. 

The QB slide is suddenly perplexing. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

This makes me painfully aware that I'm not up to snuff on our league's multi-dimensional aspects of a play. I'm not sure most guys would be. Do sacks count as tackle for losses, too? Why should they? I've been trying to figure it out all year. Color me IDP confused...

Sacks by definition is a tackle of the QB on a passing play for minus yards or no gain.  So every sack for a loss of yards should also get a TFL because it is a TFL.  A sack also counts as a tackle (half sack is an assist but generally no TFL because they don't split those).  My gripe is selfish because we broke the sack down to flatten scoring out a bit.  We give points for tackle, sack, TFL, QBH and Forced Fumble.  The sack used to be the only component that scored but it gave too big of boom vs bust scoring.  So we divided the points beteween sack, TFL, and QBH to equal the total of our old sack scoring.  This has helped tremendously in normalizing scoring so it isn't so boom or bust.  The only crappy thing is sometimes you screwed.  For example, a sack for no lost yardage you will lose 3 pts (TFL) because it isn't a TFL.  Its a tackle for no gain.  You get the QBH and sack points but not the TFL.  Small price to pay to make scoring a little more even.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Gally said:

Sacks by definition is a tackle of the QB on a passing play for minus yards or no gain. 

Totally agree. I was just wondering why the breakdown in IDP scoring. You've pretty much explained the logic. I guess it's to get away from the feast-or-famine nature of sacks as the be-all end-all. That makes sense. And I see what you mean about flattening (or "normalizing," in your words) the scoring by compartmentalizing it. Thanks.

Edited by rockaction
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I agree. Unfortunately we’ve never used TFL specifically because of the “IDP Holy Grail” play you described above. We all felt it was already so valuable. 

every year I lobby the league to add TFL, because I believe it should be worth more than a TKL if the dude loses yardage. 

It is why we lowered the sack points and added TFL.  The total is still the same.  We used to have sack as 8pts with no pts for QBH or TFL.  Now you get 3 pts for a sack, 3 pts for a QBH and 2 pts for a TFL.  The end result is the same on a sack but you also reward players that don't quite get a sack but get the QBH or for other tackles on the RB for a 2 yard loss.  It really has helped our scoring stay more consistent which is highly recommended.  

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, rockaction said:

Totally agree. I was just wondering why the breakdown in IDP scoring. You've pretty much explained the logic. I guess it's to get away from the feast-or-famine nature of sacks as the be-all end-all. That makes sense. And I see what you mean about flattening (or "normalizing," in your words) the scoring by compartmentalizing it. Thanks.

It has been a huge improvement.  I would highly recommend it.  IDP scoring hasn't changed in total but it makes the swings a lot less which really makes more players worth playing as well as makes them much more consistent to compare to the offensive players scoring.

 

We also wanted to make every position as close as possible by tier so that you could build your team many different ways.  It takes away the "must stock up on RB" mentality.

Edited by Gally
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Gally said:

It is why we lowered the sack points and added TFL.  The total is still the same.  We used to have sack as 8pts with no pts for QBH or TFL.  Now you get 3 pts for a sack, 3 pts for a QBH and 2 pts for a TFL.  The end result is the same on a sack but you also reward players that don't quite get a sack but get the QBH or for other tackles on the RB for a 2 yard loss.  It really has helped our scoring stay more consistent which is highly recommended.  

Wow, you get three points for a QBH? We get one.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Gally said:

It has been a huge improvement.  I would highly recommend it.  IDP scoring hasn't changed in total but it makes the swings a lot less which really makes more players worth playing.  

We do exactly that. I'm just wondering how it's broken down when it happens. I suppose that what you described is exactly how the scoring has been going on. I honestly thought so, but then I'd see stat lines and go, "they can't give that many points in that many categories for one play, can they?" Yes, they can. You've now explained it to me. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

For the “chase a player out of bounds” I could see it being a judgement call. 

A QB giving himself up with a slide seems pretty cut & dry.

if the play is dead when his butt hits the ground, how can any tackle be awarded?

Most of the time that happens because a defender is bearing down on them.  I would think that is very similar to an out of bounds judgement call.  I really don't see any difference in the two.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Gally said:

It has been a huge improvement.  I would highly recommend it.  IDP scoring hasn't changed in total but it makes the swings a lot less which really makes more players worth playing as well as makes them much more consistent to compare to the offensive players scoring.

 

We also wanted to make every position as close as possible by tier so that you could build your team many different ways.  It takes away the "must stock up on RB" mentality.

Yeah, I'm getting bona fide crushed by the really good teams in our league on the defensive side of the ball at positions that are traditionally (from what I've read) deemed unimportant as far as draft capital goes in acquiring them. I've had preconceptions change a lot over the year and will continue to do so as they years go on.

  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Gally said:

Most of the time that happens because a defender is bearing down on them.  I would think that is very similar to an out of bounds judgement call.  I really don't see any difference in the two.  

This is what I first thought. He ain't sliding because there's nobody around to hit him. (Unless he's Daniel Jones getting turf monstered vs. the Eagles).

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Wow, you get three points for a QBH? We get one.

we wanted IDP to score similar to offensive players.  We want it to be as close to even as we can.  This has done a pretty good job of that.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Yeah, I'm getting bona fide crushed by the really good teams in our league on the defensive side of the ball at positions that are traditionally (from what I've read) deemed unimportant as far as draft capital goes in acquiring them. I've had preconceptions change a lot over the year and will continue to do so as they years go on.

This is what separates the men from the boys for IDP leagues.  Knowing your league's scoring nuances really allows for the owners that put in the time to reap the reward.  You can't just go to a website and pull off a cheatsheet 10 minutes before the draft.  Most IDP scoring cheatsheets won't fit if your league is more advanced.  It's one of the things I love most about IDP.  It rewards owners that put in the time.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, rockaction said:

This is what I first thought. He ain't sliding because there's nobody around to hit him. (Unless he's Daniel Jones getting turf monstered vs. the Eagles).

This time he chose to slide to keep the clock running. So...the clock gets the tackle? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Gally said:

This is what separates the men from the boys for IDP leagues.  Knowing your league's scoring nuances really allows for the owners that put in the time to reap the reward.  You can't just go to a website and pull off a cheatsheet 10 minutes before the draft.  Most IDP scoring cheatsheets won't fit if your league is more advanced.  It's one of the things I love most about IDP.  It rewards owners that put in the time.  

Like say, knowing a LB moved to DL and getting a late round are defense of lineman the racks up tackles like a linebacker, for example. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

This time he chose to slide to keep the clock running. So...the clock gets the tackle? 

Why is it a problem to award the defensive guy that is closest to the player that slides or goes out of bounds?  He slid to stay in bounds but he went down because he didn't want to get hit.  If nobody was around he would have kept going.  Someone caused him to want to slide.  

  • Thinking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Gally said:

Why is it a problem to award the defensive guy that is closest to the player that slides or goes out of bounds?  He slid to stay in bounds but he went down because he didn't want to get hit.  If nobody was around he would have kept going.  Someone caused him to want to slide.  

Is that true though?

I lost a game by 4 points when Todd Gurley decided to run for 16 yards and fall down to kill the clock instead of waltzing into the end zone for an easy uncontested 3rd TD. 

How is that different than what Mahomes did? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Is that true though?

I lost a game by 4 points when Todd Gurley decided to run for 16 yards and fall down to kill the clock instead of waltzing into the end zone for an easy uncontested 3rd TD. 

How is that different than what Mahomes did? 

There were players between Mahomes and the goal line looking to hit him.  There is a play where someone stopped running.  I don't see a problem with crediting the nearest guy with a tackle.  One play - one tackle  Seems to make sense.  I am not sure what we are discussing here.  The NFL has official scoring rules.  I am sure who gets credit for a tackle (or nobody) in those situations is spelled out in some manner.  Its why we leave the heavy lifting to the official scorekeepers.  Then there is no bias from your fantasy league.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Gally said:

There were players between Mahomes and the goal line looking to hit him.  There is a play where someone stopped running.  I don't see a problem with crediting the nearest guy with a tackle.  One play - one tackle  Seems to make sense.  I am not sure what we are discussing here.  The NFL has official scoring rules.  I am sure who gets credit for a tackle (or nobody) in those situations is spelled out in some manner.  Its why we leave the heavy lifting to the official scorekeepers.  Then there is no bias from your fantasy league.  

Philosophically I agree with you, and again - this is how my league handles it.

The question is, if a QB giving himself up is a dead play & there is no Tackle awarded, then why is there a disconnect between real NFL football for this statistic (where likely no tackle will be awarded, and the stat will be changed later in the week) and FF where a tackle will be improperly awarded? 

Wouldn’t it be better for the stat person to simply follow the NFL rules on what constitutes a tackle?

Or is it a legit tackle? Again - the nearest player to Mahomes was about 2-3 yards away. That’s a pretty sizable distance. And it wasn’t like he slid down & White tapped him on the shoulder or helmet - the ceremoniaL “I know you down, but now you down down” move that we often see. No, White never touched him & never had an angle to tackle him (like dude chasing another dude OOB)

so I guess I’m wondering 

1. is it a tackle

and

2. why doesn’t FF score it right if it’s not?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Probably the simplest answer and the one we go by, of course.

but it’s nice to understand the rule on a QB slide.

Unfortunately I’m not a lot closer to that yet. :lol: 

and you dont really want to be...(I know you think you do but you really dont)  Let the pros handle this so that you dont have to wade into the minutia.  

  • Laughing 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, da_budman said:

and you dont really want to be...(I know you think you do but you really dont)  Let the pros handle this so that you dont have to wade into the minutia.  

C'mon - it's a rule. Of course I want to know how it works. Someone among the tremendous brain trust of FBG has to know whether the actual NFL rule about a QB giving himself up results in a tackle being awarded to a defender, and if it's not consistent when that rule applies and how. 

This shouldn't be some Bermuda triangle type mystery. I'm pretty sure it's written down and everything. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Philosophically I agree with you, and again - this is how my league handles it.

The question is, if a QB giving himself up is a dead play & there is no Tackle awarded, then why is there a disconnect between real NFL football for this statistic (where likely no tackle will be awarded, and the stat will be changed later in the week) and FF where a tackle will be improperly awarded? 

Wouldn’t it be better for the stat person to simply follow the NFL rules on what constitutes a tackle?

Or is it a legit tackle? Again - the nearest player to Mahomes was about 2-3 yards away. That’s a pretty sizable distance. And it wasn’t like he slid down & White tapped him on the shoulder or helmet - the ceremoniaL “I know you down, but now you down down” move that we often see. No, White never touched him & never had an angle to tackle him (like dude chasing another dude OOB)

so I guess I’m wondering 

1. is it a tackle

and

2. why doesn’t FF score it right if it’s not?

I found this but it doesn't really identify the definition of tackle for t he items you are questioning.  It does have some interesting tidbits though.

 

Guide for NFL Statisticians

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Gally said:

I found this but it doesn't really identify the definition of tackle for t he items you are questioning.  It does have some interesting tidbits though.

 

Guide for NFL Statisticians

I'll take a gander. Would sure love to know the slide rule though. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Found this:

Tackles are actually not defined as an official statistic by the league. What counts as a tackle is defined by the scoring crew for each stadium, so unfortunately there is no straight answer to your question as there are 32 vastly different viewpoints on how to score tackles.  Some crews give out tackles like crazy to every defender in the same area code when a player goes down, some crews like padding the tackle stats of a single player on the home team even when he's nowhere near the play, and some crews are stingy with tackles and don't mind putting nobody down for a tackle if they aren't sure who should get the credit.  If you watch games and try to match up actual tackles with what shows up on the box score, you'll find that they rarely ever match.

Seems like a tackle is in the eye of the beholder. 

Also, have fun perusing this... https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2020-nfl-rulebook/

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...