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USExit (1 Viewer)

bostonfred

Footballguy
Missouri, Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah and West Virginia have all petitioned the Supreme Court to invalidate the election results. 

I am fine with allowing a temporary secession from the United States for as many of these states as would like to secede, and for a period of not less than six months but as long as they want. 

Please take it, and take your time deciding whether or not to come back. 

 
Let's call this for what it is - they are a bunch of poor sport crybabies and anybody who supports this nonsense is the same.  I do hope Trump continues this though - he's destroying the GOP and it's exactly what they deserve after the last four years.

 
Missouri, Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah and West Virginia have all petitioned the Supreme Court to invalidate the election results. 

I am fine with allowing a temporary secession from the United States for as many of these states as would like to secede, and for a period of not less than six months but as long as they want. 

Please take it, and take your time deciding whether or not to come back. 
I think Texas should also be on the list.  Texas is in a sense the ringleader and the others are riding its coattails.

 
I mean, we're not the utopian paradises that are New York and California, but we manage somehow.
Hello exactly

NY and CA only bring in 4.5 trillion in GDP

All of the states petitioning to invalidate the election bring in a combinedn3,7 trillion in GDP

All I ask is that you give these brave Republican states a chance. Let them secede so they can see what life could be like if they had full control for a while but give them a clear path back to becoming US states if they don't like it. 

For reference

Missouri 323 billion 

Alabama 209 billion 

Arkansas 121 billion 

Florida 1.026 trillion 

Indiana 371 billion 

Kansas 161 billion 

Louisiana 224 billion 

Mississippi 106 billion 

Montana 48 billion 

Nebraska 120 billion

North Dakota 50 billion 

Oklahoma 173 billion

South Carolina 225 billion

South Dakota 51 billion 

Tennessee 374 billion 

Utah 183 billion 

West Virginia 68 billion 

 
And Arizona.
Take Texas and Arizona too. Their 1.983 trillion in GDP would bring you to  5,7 trillion of the 19,5 trillion GDP the US brings in. I'm comparing fine letting you run your country the way you want if McConnell allows it. Do you think he would consider letting you secede if you could have Texas and Arizona?

 
A little surreal we could be getting our own BRexit. How did that workout over the pond anyway?

 
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I read the title correctly and I'm still disappointed.
Yeah, but you seem like you're kind of a downer in general, so it probably doesn't take a lot.  No offense.

I'm more of a bon vivant.  A gadabout.  I've come to expect a certain level of, how do you say it, gen es se qua from my PSF posts, y'know?   Especially from a gentleman who once provided a simple, yet effective, marker rendering of a...ummm...female body part that unzipped to act as a recepticle for a bag of Doritos.

I'm afraid standards have been set, so they are the standards.  It hurts me when they fall short of expectations.

 
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Let's call this for what it is - they are a bunch of poor sport crybabies and anybody who supports this nonsense is the same.  I do hope Trump continues this though - he's destroying the GOP and it's exactly what they deserve after the last four years.
Is he? He's been an embarrassment for the last 4 years yet he still got more votes in this election than any presidential candidate had before. I don't see his current antics putting much of a dent in the GOP base.

 
Is he? He's been an embarrassment for the last 4 years yet he still got more votes in this election than any presidential candidate had before. I don't see his current antics putting much of a dent in the GOP base.
The GOP, absolutely.  I'm convinced that a good number of people who vote Trump will abandon what's left once Trump dies or is pushed out. 

 
This kind of smacks of the "If you don't love it, leave it" crowd wearing their flag doorags and 1/2 price MAGA hats.  #Bothsides
Except that, in this case, GOP states are trying to torch representative democracy in America. 

 
Is the theory that these states would struggle while those states that remain in the Union would thrive? Don’t see any downside for the remaining states?

 
I know the idea of "irreconcilable, split the country into two" has gained traction in the public eye.  However, even if we put aside many of the issues such as what about Democrats who live in red states and vice versa, there is a practical matter that I doubt can be overcome.  That is the issue of the debt and the national currency that is the US dollar.  Only one new country could keep "the dollar" as it's currency.  BRICS would almost certainly achieve it's goal of removing the US dollar as the measure of oil.  The existing debt, however split, would almost certainly begin to matter much more than it ever has before.  The financial mess would likely be incalculable and leave both countries in a severe depression.

 
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I assume that this thread is tongue in cheek but if the states petitioning the Supreme Court to throw out the results of the elections held in other states somehow got their way then there really wouldn't be much point to the country called the United States of America.    At that point the whole American republic breaks down.

But as long as it keeps Donald Trump as president it will be worth destroying the country.

 
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To be fair, I'm a right-winger by any reasonable standard, and I'm embarrassed beyond words that my state is participating in this parade of stupidity.  So it's not just my liberal neighbors.  
Between helping Biden win and not being a part of this, I'm even more proud to be a Georgian today than any time time in the past.  And if one of you jerks brings up the Falcons I will cut you.

 
On today's episode of the tolerant left
Are you asking everyone to tolerate the current actions of an embarrassing number of state attorneys general to overturn what has proven to be a remarkably clean Presidential election because they don't like the result and would instead choose to invalidate the votes of millions? Sorry man, I love my country too much to tolerate that kind of dangerous BS.

 
Are you asking everyone to tolerate the current actions of an embarrassing number of state attorneys general to overturn what has proven to be a remarkably clean Presidential election because they don't like the result and would instead choose to invalidate the votes of millions? Sorry man, I love my country too much to tolerate that kind of dangerous BS.
I guess, based on what I am seeing, there are others that do not agree with the "remarkably clean" description.

:shrug:

Someone said it earlier and I thought it was on point.  Just cause you believe something, it doesn't automatically make it true.

 
Missouri, Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah and West Virginia have all petitioned the Supreme Court to invalidate the election results. 

I am fine with allowing a temporary secession from the United States for as many of these states as would like to secede, and for a period of not less than six months but as long as they want. 

Please take it, and take your time deciding whether or not to come back. 
None are seeking secession I'm aware of.

I'm also not super big on this "Love It Or You Can Leave" position. 

 
This. It’s amazing what’s happening. It’s amazing that at a time when the world has demonstrated the very best in accelerating progress through medicine, close to have the country has crawled back decades into a hole or fear and fantasy.

But just as the nation was not founded by one tradition or group that spread heterogeneously (recommend American Nations by Colin Woodard) I think there are at least four Americas right now.

1. On right, who are top 5% of income, largely white, largely in ivory towers, isolated from the problems of everyday Americans and in some way invested in exploiting labor, implicitly or explicitly 

2. On the right, the cult of Trumpism, which is tribal, fear-based, radicalized, detached from fact-based reality, and runs counter to Christian values although it seeks to organize fundamentally around them—notably the majority in this group are voting against their own interests but would die in the name of proving otherwise 

3. On left, 20-30% of the left (maybe 15% of Americans) educated progressives who want to move the world forward responsibly and fairly, embracing science, technology, and continuously improving systems of improvement 

4. On left, masses that are for various reasons disenfranchised from economic prosperity, are driven by more reactive and short-term thinking, and are largely at the bottom of the socioeconomic barrel, with diminished power because they are furtherest from resources including quality education—prime to be as radicalized as Trumpists 

There are gradients.

When we talk about an American divorce, I think many of us tend to put two of these four against each other in our mine’s eye. But it’s more complicated. Increasingly, it’s hard to envision all four co-existing under government led mainly by any of the four. If you game that out, government run by any of the four has to inherently seem to distance itself from the others. I don’t know that there is an answer, but populist government led by #2 and #4 are probably the most dangerous to historical systems and order. While the most evil and shameless would be #1.

Today, we are ostensibly led by #2, with all the bad side effects, but strings are pulled by #1.

Many of us “liberal elites” would like to see #3 bring us into an Age of Enlightenment, but that can’t happen without hot war, because #1 and #2 have tipped that they’re willing to wage hot war to prevent it.
Do you think #3 is honestly willing to sacrifice their lifestyle for #2 and #4?  Many look at #3 as hypocrites.  You also don’t see #3 using #4 like you claim on the other side?  Additionally, the “war” and violence is currently coming exclusively from #4

 
President Trump’s brief supporting this claim was written by John Eastman, a law professor from Chapman University in Orange, CA, who also a few months back questioned Kamala Harris’ citizenship. 
Both of my daughters attend Chapman and they are very embarrassed this morning. 

 
Do you think #3 is honestly willing to sacrifice their lifestyle for #2 and #4?  Many look at #3 as hypocrites.  
Not everyone in any of these categories is the same.  There are undoubtedly plenty of hypocrites in all these groups. I think many in group 3 are willing to give up some financial prosperity in exchange for making struggling people’s lives better.  I also don’t necessarily think it’s hypocritical for someone in group 3 to believe that we should be redistributing wealth and opportunity from group 1 to groups 2 and 4.

 
In the states mentioned, there are millions of people who honestly believe that the election was stolen from President Trump and that these lawsuits are a legal means to bring about justice. Most of these people are good, patriotic Americans so demanding that they leave, even in jest, seems like a poor remedy to the problem. 
On the other hand, the politicians who are pushing for this, led by the President but including the leaders of each state who are part of this lawsuit, should know better and are deserving of nothing but contempt. 

 
In the states mentioned, there are millions of people who honestly believe that the election was stolen from President Trump and that these lawsuits are a legal means to bring about justice. Most of these people are good, patriotic Americans so demanding that they leave, even in jest, seems like a poor remedy to the problem. 
Several have responded as if the OP is intolerantly demanding something. It's the opposite.

The OP proposes to grant the aggrieved states an option -- one whose exercise may be subsequently revoked by them, at that.

 
I guess, based on what I am seeing, there are others that do not agree with the "remarkably clean" description.

:shrug:

Someone said it earlier and I thought it was on point.  Just cause you believe something, it doesn't automatically make it true.
This is exactly the point kwilie is making.  The people suing today are no better than the "not my President" people who marched on Washington DC after the election.  The major difference between the two groups to date, is that these politicians are actually trying to overturn/influence the results rather than simply protesting them.  Personally, I have no use for other and have condemned both.  Some here, haven't and just dismiss it with some nonsense about "tolerance" or "just can't handle different opinions than your own"....that's all lazy and a complete mischaracterization of the facts/events presented.  I also find the use of generalizations by people pissing and moaning about generalizations being used against them somewhat amusing....though more sad than amusing.

 
Nebraskan here.  Registered Republican, voted Biden.  Personally embarrassed by our state taking part in this.  
 

I will admit there isn’t much as far as tourism goes in Nebraska, but it’s a great state to raise a family.  Live here, vacation somewhere else.  There is also a rising amount  of Liberal and Democratic people in Lincoln and Omaha and if you look at the county map, the majority of those voted for Biden.  Two blue counties in a sea of red.  Like the Jayhawks visiting the Huskers at home. 
 

Please be careful about slinging negative comments about the entire state, as I’ve witnessed many times in here.  These decisions are based on a few people running our state, not the state as a whole.  I am against Nebraska’s part in this, but still proud and happy to live here. 

 
Nebraskan here.  Registered Republican, voted Biden.  Personally embarrassed by our state taking part in this.  
 

I will admit there isn’t much as far as tourism goes in Nebraska, but it’s a great state to raise a family.  Live here, vacation somewhere else.  There is also a rising amount  of Liberal and Democratic people in Lincoln and Omaha and if you look at the county map, the majority of those voted for Biden.  Two blue counties in a sea of red.  Like the Jayhawks visiting the Huskers at home. 
 

Please be careful about slinging negative comments about the entire state, as I’ve witnessed many times in here.  These decisions are based on a few people running our state, not the state as a whole.  I am against Nebraska’s part in this, but still proud and happy to live here. 
This is me... only in Kansas.

 
None are seeking secession I'm aware of.

I'm also not super big on this "Love It Or You Can Leave" position. 
This isn't a love it or leave it position. This is getting dangerous. 

Texas is suing and 17 other states are currently petitioning the Supreme Court to invalidate the election results.  There are only 33 other states. One third of the US state attorney generals are currently petitioning a majority right wing Supreme Court after the election and after the recounts and after all of the failed lawsuits. 

What's the next step, if not secession?  I hope it's not violence, but thats not what we are seeing. 

The Arizona Republican party just dogwhistled violence, which is hardly the first time that Republican leadership has offhandedly supported violence and then backtracked in the last four years. 

Armed protesters went to the Michigan secretary of state's home to protest the election results. This is a different group of people from the eight people arrested in th kidnapping plot of their governor, and the armed protesters inside their state house. 

The Florida data scientist who published the state's Covid-19 dashboard already got fired for it, but when she continued to provide a dashboard as a private citizen, the state sent armed officers with their guns drawn and pointed them at her family  What non political reason is there for this?  

Love it or leave it is a false dichotomy, because there are plenty of options that involve staying but not loving it. But if you don't think peaceful secession is a good idea, what do you think is a good idea?  The lawsuit is little more than a peaceful coup attempt.  When the peaceful options are off the table, do you expect that everyone will peacefully accept the electiom results?  Do you believe that violence is increasingly likely in the current environment?   

 
This isn't a love it or leave it position. 
Sure it is. "Love it or I'll ask you to leave" is "Love it or please secede". :shrug:

I'd rather us talk about what we think is best and not ask people who don't like it here to leave.

That works ok on a message board. Not as well for citizens of a country in my opinion. 

 
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All I ask is that you give these brave Republican states a chance. Let them secede so they can see what life could be like if they had full control for a while but give them a clear path back to becoming US states if they don't like it. 
Yikes.

 

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