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Please join me in eliminating this word from the Shark Pool/Board


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3 minutes ago, Insein said:

The people pushing these issues dont want to have a reasonable conversation about them. They make demands and threats. They create change through force and violence. Then when they are given their demands, they double down and do it all again because it worked. 

I will respectfully disagree. 

Some do, some don’t. Again, sweeping generalizations about motive can be doing a severe disservice to those genuinely looking to start a conversation.

And like this topic as it relates to Shaun King’s article, he can say whatever he wants & he might indeed have the motives you’re projecting.

But then it’s up to us to either dismiss it all as extremism or determine if there’s a pearl of truth to the matter at hand. I find generalizations and outright dismissal to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If someone is offended by the term “owner”, it’s not up to me to tell them what to be offended by, or that they’re wrong for taking offense. I will simply choose to put my efforts towards changing what I consider more important things, with bigger hills to die on.

 

 

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I appreciate the sentiment and understand the concern, even though in this case I don't necessarily agree and actually don't feel that it's painfully obvious why we shouldn't use Owner/Own in this con

I myself prefer the term "Grand Overlord".

Greetings everyone,  I have been sitting on this for a while now and I even am guilty of using this word and didn't realize how offensive it likely is until more recently in the last couple years

1 hour ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

In general, I’m happy to see thoughtful people engaging in respectful discussion about sensitive issues of race in America. We’re long overdue for such conversations and it’s fair to ask the questions about what should and should not be acceptable. It shows heretofore unrealized potential to become better people & have a more thoughtful society.but I see that line of reasoning a lot. That’s a slippery slope & should be avoided. 

I would much rather see these folks work towards and succeed at fixing some of the actual problems. It's very sad they have more success getting rid of Huckleberry Fin than ensuring blacks have equal access to education. 

Edited by cloppbeast
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22 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

I would much rather see these folks work towards and succeed at fixing some of the actual problems. It's very sad they have more success getting rid of Huckleberry Fin than ensuring blacks have equal access to education. 

I'm not sure who "they" are, which is exactly the sweeping generalizations I'm referring to. As though there's a single group of PC police who have placed themselves in charge of ruining every bit of classic Americana you love. That's right wing media BS & I'm more sick of that than I am of any alleged PC cancellation culture. 

Take issues one at a time. Have mature discussions about them. Perhaps in time minds will be open to the idea of the meaningful change of which you speak. But that will never happen so long as folks look at it as one big issue and some nefarious group going around ruining your good time by banning a problematic book or complaining about FF terminology. 

We can look at the issue of whether or not calling a fantasy football enthusiast an "owner"  is problematic or not without shaking our collective fist at any perceived threat to cultural institutions. 

It's not a hard ask. Have discussions. Be specific. Show your work. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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18 hours ago, Stinkin Ref said:

Maybe football “guys” is offensive too.....maybe we should start a movement to have them change it to something more gender neutral and we should all boycott and not participate here until they change it....

great point. I just bought footballpersons.com and will hold Joe Bryant hostage until he pays me one meeeelion dollars for the url. Owned!

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37 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I'm not sure who "they" are, which is exactly the sweeping generalizations I'm referring to. As though there's a single group of PC police who have placed themselves in charge of ruining every bit of classic Americana you love. That's right wing media BS & I'm more sick of that than I am of any alleged PC cancellation culture. 

Take issues one at a time. Have mature discussions about them. Perhaps in time minds will be open to the idea of the meaningful change of which you speak. But that will never happen so long as folks look at it as one big issue and some nefarious group going around ruining your good time by banning a problematic book or complaining about FF terminology. 

We can look at the issue of whether or not calling a fantasy football enthusiast an "owner"  is problematic or not without shaking our collective fist at any perceived threat to cultural institutions. 

It's not a hard ask. Have discussions. Be specific. Show your work. 

It's not hard here.

You make generalizations right after preaching about how you shouldn't do that.  Then, manage to bring politics into your post.  

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4 hours ago, Gally said:

I remember a couple years ago when ESPN did 24 hours of fantasy football one of the segments they did was an auction draft.  They got all kinds of backlash from this as it being equated to slave auctions.  It was quite ridiculous.  

Right, it was all from that activist Shaun King (I'm not sure how he spells it but it's the same name as the QB).  These people are so ridiculous.

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42 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I'm not sure who "they" are, which is exactly the sweeping generalizations I'm referring to.

You focus on a specific word that I used and now we are talking about that instead if my overall point, which in the end demonstrates what I meant to say better than I could have hoped.

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54 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I'm not sure who "they" are, which is exactly the sweeping generalizations I'm referring to. As though there's a single group of PC police who have placed themselves in charge of ruining every bit of classic Americana you love. That's right wing media BS & I'm more sick of that than I am of any alleged PC cancellation culture.

I largely agree with you here and respect your stance. But it's hard have conversations about big groups of people without generalizing.

Some segments of our society have a habit of attaching negative connotations to language - post hoc - and shaming those who are hesitant or late to adopt these changes. I believe CB is referring to those who participate in this practice. His point - and mine - is that this isn't productive. It's just vanity. I say this as someone who did this for most of my life without realizing it.

Edited by Concept Coop
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Do you think people in countries that actually have slavery view the word "own" differently?  Like if you participate in a fantasy draft in a country like China, India, or a slew of African counties where slavery is still rampant, like the Sudan, Congo, Mauritania, and Libya, and you head home after the draft, will there be a group of players hanging out in your living room? 

That would really add a whole new dimension to the game. It would certainly be more challenging. How would you handle add/drops? What about waivers? Do you have to feed these guys? And what if an owner checks out midway though the season? I suppose you could set his slaves free, but that hardly seems fair to the other owners. I mean, the integrity of the league would be in doubt. 

I should do some research on this. And by the way, if I decide to start a Mauritanian fantasy league, I may need some owners, so feel free to give me a buzz. 

😇

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47 minutes ago, Concept Coop said:

Some segments of our society have a habit of attaching negative connotations to language - post hoc - and shaming those who are hesitant or late to adopt these changes.

At the risk of being a stickler, I'd argue implications in words can develop organically over time. Those who are inclined to take offensive often look to cancel the word or limit its use rather than address the source of the connotations.

A recent example is the word 'thug', a word with no attachment to race according to the dictionary, now is considered racist. I honestly won't argue those connotations don't exist because I think they do; but cancelling the word and labelling people as racist for using it will not address reasons the overtones developed in the first place. 

 

Other times, I believe you are right where connotations can be inserted where they don't exist at all. People have been fired for using the word '#####rdly' for example.

Edit, I just noticed footballguys censors #####rdly. Link.

Edited by cloppbeast
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33 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

At the risk of being a stickler, I'd argue implications in words can develop organically over time. Those who are inclined to take offensive often look to cancel the word or limit its use rather than address the source of the connotations.

A recent example is the word 'thug', a word with no attachment to race according to the dictionary, now is considered racist. I honestly won't argue those connotations don't exist because I think they do; but cancelling the word and labelling people as racist for using it will not address reasons the overtones developed in the first place.

Other times, I believe you are right where connotations can be inserted where they don't exist at all. People have been fired for using the word '#####rdly' for example.

Edit, I just noticed footballguys censors #####rdly. Link.

I agree with all of this. Some examples I'm inclined to cite might get me in trouble. Words like fat, lady and tribe won't get you in trouble today, but carry baggage that they didn't in the past.

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3 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

In general, I’m happy to see thoughtful people engaging in respectful discussion about sensitive issues of race in America. We’re long overdue for such conversations and it’s fair to ask the questions about what should and should not be acceptable. It shows heretofore unrealized potential to become better people & have a more thoughtful society.

Specifically to this subject, it can definitely seem too PC or over the top or heavy-handed.

But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have the conversation, nor should it be a reason to hate all political correctness.

The balance is in sticking to one question at a time without making sweeping generalizations like, “well we just can’t have any comedians any more if I can’t say the N word when telling a racist joke”. Not saying you, specifically did this, but I see that line of reasoning a lot. That’s a slippery slope & should be avoided. 

This topic is a bit of an extreme example - I’ll note Shaun King didn’t write his article about fantasy hockey or fantasy golf, both of which use auction formats as well. But he’s somewhat known as a rabble rouser (and a liar and harasser of women) so I expect over the top PC from him because it gives him something to write about & get attention for. 

The rest of us should be able to entertain a mature discussion about whether or not he’s right. That doesn’t mean cancel culture is taking away our magical foozeball. ;) 

very well put. 
 

we can have a discussion about it. 
 

most of us may decide, nah, this is silly. 
 

but what is the danger in talking about it?

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5 minutes ago, Kevrunner said:

I’ve never seen anywhere in sports where an owner has ever said they “own” a player, maybe they have, and if so, it has to be quite rare.   I personally hate when I hear the word “bomb” used to refer to a long pass. 

You might have hated the nickname assigned to me from the older generation when I played basketball....the blonde bomber.

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2 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

At the risk of being a stickler, I'd argue implications in words can develop organically over time. Those who are inclined to take offensive often look to cancel the word or limit its use rather than address the source of the connotations.

A recent example is the word 'thug', a word with no attachment to race according to the dictionary, now is considered racist. I honestly won't argue those connotations don't exist because I think they do; but cancelling the word and labelling people as racist for using it will not address reasons the overtones developed in the first place. 

 

Other times, I believe you are right where connotations can be inserted where they don't exist at all. People have been fired for using the word '#####rdly' for example.

Edit, I just noticed footballguys censors #####rdly. Link.

I had a problem with the “R” word.

I’m a child of the 80s. We said R——-d as a casual insult like people say things today. 

But it was never ok. And as I grew from boyhood into a young man, old habits died hard. One day I really offended someone and I didn’t sleep for a week. I felt shame for my lack of empathy. But not just for the moment, but for the decade I’d used the word, wondering how many others I might have offended. 

Its never easy to own something you’ve done, and especially something that was all around you growing up. I don’t know why that word was thrown around so casually but it was in movies and other pop culture. It sounds crazy, but I’d never made the direct association between the insult with special needs kids. I certainly didn’t regard special needs kids with malice. 

It also sucks that it took a moment of deep, personal embarrassment for me at ~20 to realize why what I’d been saying for ~10 developmental years was horrible. But once I did, I vowed to never say the word again. And now I cringe when I hear others saying it. 

So I get it - I understand why people don’t want to be called out on something that may once have been acceptable but no longer is.  The deeper dive is that also extends to thinks like gay slurs or the N word. In some parts of the country that’s just part of daily talk. My ex is from Kentucky & used to talk about the yard talk with her uncles around the BBQ. Awful stuff to my ear, but when she was a kid that was just the language people use.  When the Internet exploded & connected everyone in a hurry, cultural differences between people in different states in a hurry. Suddenly you have mixes of cultures where things casually said in one place are considered horrific and cruel in another place. Online scolds show up in droves looking for clout & name and shame people (which, to @Concept Coop point is often post hoc) and it gives the impression that everyone is overly offended by everything. 

That’s a far cry from calling someone who manages a FF team and “owner”, but again - I won’t tell people what to get offended by. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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12 minutes ago, Kevrunner said:

I’ve never seen anywhere in sports where an owner has ever said they “own” a player, maybe they have, and if so, it has to be quite rare.   I personally hate when I hear the word “bomb” used to refer to a long pass. 

“Shares” bugs me. “I have no shares of that player this year” or “I’m overly invested in X player and have 5 shares”.

Like nails on a chalkboard. Hey, we all have our thing. :shrug: 

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I’m old... a little chubby.....I drink a little too much....I’ve worked my ### off.... raised two kids ....still happily married....I’m going to be ok....one of the things I still enjoy as a little escape to myself is fantasy football.....it gets me away from all crap I see every time I turn on the news....having to worry about saying I “own” Christian McCaffrey in a fantasy league  just blows my mind....that #### isn’t even on my radar.....and that doesn’t make me a bad person or racist or insensitive.....

Edited by Stinkin Ref
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3 hours ago, amnesiac said:

very well put. 
 

we can have a discussion about it. 
 

most of us may decide, nah, this is silly. 
 

but what is the danger in talking about it?

The degradation of language. Gradually turning words into weapons. 

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2 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I had a problem with the “R” word.

I’m a child of the 80s. We said R——-d as a casual insult like people say things today. 

But it was never ok. And as I grew from boyhood into a young man, old habits died hard. One day I really offended someone and I didn’t sleep for a week. I felt shame for my lack of empathy. But not just for the moment, but for the decade I’d used the word, wondering how many others I might have offended. 

Its never easy to own something you’ve done, and especially something that was all around you growing up. I don’t know why that word was thrown around so casually but it was in movies and other pop culture. It sounds crazy, but I’d never made the direct association between the insult with special needs kids. I certainly didn’t regard special needs kids with malice. 

It also sucks that it took a moment of deep, personal embarrassment for me at ~20 to realize why what I’d been saying for ~10 developmental years was horrible. But once I did, I vowed to never say the word again. And now I cringe when I hear others saying it. 

So I get it - I understand why people don’t want to be called out on something that may once have been acceptable but no longer is.  The deeper dive is that also extends to thinks like gay slurs or the N word. In some parts of the country that’s just part of daily talk. My ex is from Kentucky & used to talk about the yard talk with her uncles around the BBQ. Awful stuff to my ear, but when she was a kid that was just the language people use.  When the Internet exploded & connected everyone in a hurry, cultural differences between people in different states in a hurry. Suddenly you have mixes of cultures where things casually said in one place are considered horrific and cruel in another place. Online scolds show up in droves looking for clout & name and shame people (which, to @Concept Coop point is often post hoc) and it gives the impression that everyone is overly offended by everything. 

That’s a far cry from calling someone who manages a FF team and “owner”, but again - I won’t tell people what to get offended by. 

Idk, it seems like your heart was in the right place and you weren't trying to offend anyone. I don't understand why we can't consider other people's motives before we get offended. That seems more like what someone would do who knows what healthy relationships look like. You felt bad for days, you shouldn't have, your heart was in the right place. The ofendee should lose sleep for days for judging your intentions and making you feel bad without even getting to know your heart.

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On 12/16/2020 at 9:14 PM, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Schtick or not, I like the awareness and appreciate the effort.

"Roster" might be another word to consider - "I am sick of rostering RoJo because of Bruce Arians' ridiculous backfield decisions;" or "I rostered Koo, and there is no need for me to roster another kicker, ever."

It's rooster.

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46 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

I’m old... a little chubby.....I drink a little too much....I’ve worked my ### off.... raised two kids ....still happily married....I’m going to be ok....one of the things I still enjoy as a little escape to myself is fantasy football.....it gets me away from all crap I see every time I turn on the news....having to worry about saying I “own” Christian McCaffrey in a fantasy league  just blows my mind....that #### isn’t even on my radar.....and that doesn’t make me a bad person or racist or insensitive.....

Me too, except that I don't drink a little too much.

ETA: and happily not married.

Edited by Mister CIA
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11 hours ago, Pipes said:

Great I'm an old dog who's been participating in fantasy football for 30 years and have used the term owner forever in the context of owning shares of a specific player for fake football purposes.  Never once occurred to me that some people make the giant contextual leap of the true meaning of the word own.  Now I'm going to second guess everyone of my shark pool posts now in fear I'll be offending someone.  Not that it matters much but it's making me second guess participating on social media, message boards and the like.  They've become filled with trolls and the perpetually offended.  We're in such weird times right now. 

You're credit is always good with me. I understand and I haven't rebuked or argued much in here, that was not the reason for the thread. 

I'm happy folks are discussing it, I accept the rotten fruit chucked my way, I expected a little bit of that and I have no hard feelings towards anyone for being honest about how they feel in this matter. The thread title is a simple invite and those who feel different are free to do so. This is America, freedom to discuss ideas is one of the many great things of living here. 

You feel different, that's OK. We see eye to eye on a lot of other things, let's just go with that.  

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9 hours ago, barackdhouse said:

I'm not going to read through this thread but this reflects my thoughts as well. 

This situation is *not* analogous to the slave trade. It just isn't. 

Words can be twisted any number of ways. I am trained as a scientist. Words like "manipulate", "negative", "trend", and many others, have certain scientific mathematic definitions that are unambiguous, but when used loosely in common speech, can be perverted and twisted. 

For example, if you have ever baked a cake and did a conversion from say teaspoons to tablespoons, you have "manipulated" data. Doesn't mean it is a bad thing. But if you hear someone say, "he manipulated data", most people will automatically assume it is bad.  

"Owning" an asset in a FF portfolio that happens to have a name and is a real human, is benign and independent from moral or ethical concerns, just as converting from TSP to TBS when you bake a cake. 

It isn't actually the fault of the "users" of these terms that others misunderstand and misattribute their meaning(s). 

I appreciate the effort to strive to be better, but this is chasing our tail based on a false premise. Checking out.

Sharp as a whip in here

 

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7 hours ago, Insein said:

The people pushing these issues dont want to have a reasonable conversation about them. They make demands and threats. They create change through force and violence. Then when they are given their demands, they double down and do it all again because it worked. 

We're not doing any of that in here. 

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15 minutes ago, whole-show said:

And there it is :fishing: 

Just simply responding to Kev and I'm not fishing, I've made that clear. This isn't a got'cha. 

In fact Kev was making an open joke and it was simply a respond in kind, maybe you should read it again...Bomb-Hail Mary? What are we missing?

You can think whatever you want I cant stop you just like I cant stop anyone from posting that word...but I can ask anyways. 

Have a good night, have one for me. 

Edited by Ministry of Pain
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3 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I get it - I understand why people don’t want to be called out on something that may once have been acceptable but no longer is.  The deeper dive is that also extends to thinks like gay slurs or the N word. In some parts of the country that’s just part of daily talk. My ex is from Kentucky & used to talk about the yard talk with her uncles around the BBQ. Awful stuff to my ear, but when she was a kid that was just the language people use.  When the Internet exploded & connected everyone in a hurry, cultural differences between people in different states in a hurry. Suddenly you have mixes of cultures where things casually said in one place are considered horrific and cruel in another place. Online scolds show up in droves looking for clout & name and shame people (which, to @Concept Coop point is often post hoc) and it gives the impression that everyone is overly offended by everything. 

You're building a straw man. I don't think anybody here wants to go back to the days when you could use racial slurs. It's gone well beyond that in 2020 to the point where you walk on egg shells discussing certain topics. There's no honest and thoughtful conversation in these conditions. Drew Brees got his balls busted for saying he thinks people should stand for the flag for Pete's sake. 

Maybe you haven't noticed this communication breakdown or don't find it problematic. That's ok. You should still try to understand the counterpoint here. It's not saying, 'oh, you're offended? well I don't care because you're a snowflake, get over it'. No, not quite. Just thinking the continual neutering of language making it more difficult to talk to each other is worse than people taking offense over petty stuff.

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1 hour ago, Mark Football said:

Idk, it seems like your heart was in the right place and you weren't trying to offend anyone. I don't understand why we can't consider other people's motives before we get offended. That seems more like what someone would do who knows what healthy relationships look like. You felt bad for days, you shouldn't have, your heart was in the right place. The ofendee should lose sleep for days for judging your intentions and making you feel bad without even getting to know your heart.

As the offender, I couldn’t disagree more in my situation.

The problem isn’t that someone was offended. I was being offensive. It’s just a fact. The term is offensive, and i offended someone for using it so callously. 

The person I offended had a special needs daughter. And I used that horrible stigmatizing word in her presence. I felt awful for it because I am a caring human being and I knew I was in the wrong. I knew it instantly. And I felt the shame of knowing that I’d used the word for years.

and none of that is a bad thing. It’s how we grow as humans. As a society.  The offended party didn’t shame me or make me feel bad. I shamed myself. I felt bad. 

Some things simply are. This was one of those things. And I’m a better person for that painful experience. 

But back on topic, that was a big important thing. More people need to have those painful experiences. Learn to offend less on big important things. But also take care not to conflate smaller, more minor things to avoid the “everything is offensive to everyone” mindset. Like “owner” in FF being as important as calling someone the N word or R word. Or being bigoted or anti-Semitic. Those are the big ones. 

I’ve heard people say “well if everything is offensive to everyone then F it, I’ll just be offensive to everyone!” - that’s a cop out. And it also minimizes those big important universally offensive things by falsely equating them to little ones like we’re discussing here with “owners”. It’s also victim blaming, and paints the offended as overly sensitive, which is a lot easier for some than just admitting they were wrong or more to the point, offensive.

And that’s not to say the “owners” issue should be dismissed. It, too, is worthy of discussion. It is important to anyone effected by it. But that’s not the same as a universally offensive things described above. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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4 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

You're building a straw man. I don't think anybody here wants to go back to the days when you could use racial slurs. It's gone well beyond that in 2020 to the point where you walk on egg shells discussing certain topics. There's no honest and thoughtful conversation in these conditions. Drew Brees got his balls busted for saying he thinks people should stand for the flag for Pete's sake. 

Maybe you haven't noticed this communication breakdown or don't find it problematic. That's ok. You should still try to understand the counterpoint here. It's not saying, 'oh, you're offended? well I don't care because you're a snowflake, get over it'. No, not quite. Just thinking the continual neutering of language making it more difficult to talk to each other is worse than people taking offense over petty stuff.

Due respect, I don’t think you understood my post. 

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1 minute ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Just simply responding to Kev and I'm not fishing, I've made that clear. This isn't a got'cha. 

You can think whatever you want I cant stop you just like I cant stop anyone from posting that word...but I can ask anyways. 

Have a good night, have one for me. 

Some of what you’ve said I don’t disagree with but I’ve kept quiet the whole time as I first wanted to respond when I first read the op and thought it was crazy. As I stated though I wanted to see where this went and thought maybe I was wrong. Then I started reading other comments from people that stated you like to fish but I didn’t believe it as I’ve always liked your input and respected it so I still sat back, but now after I saw this last comment it came off as fishing. I seriously have used own in the past and my take is I’ve always thought of it as like owning a baseball, basketball, hockey, or football  card as this is fantasy so thought it was kind of silly to want to change the the word, but thought maybe I was wrong. However again after seeing that last comment and what others have said about you fishing in the past even though I’ve never seen it like I’ve stated from you it made me want to say something because after seeing that just now it instantly made me think yes he must be fishing. 

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14 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Just simply responding to Kev and I'm not fishing, I've made that clear. This isn't a got'cha. 

You can think whatever you want I cant stop you just like I cant stop anyone from posting that word...but I can ask anyways. 

Have a good night, have one for me. 

Also if you’re being honest and no fishing I respect it. Even if I see it from a different view I respect your feelings, just see it completely different. I’ve never said own as owning someone, just said own as in owning that players stats in a fantasy world same as owning a sports players card in a collectors world. 

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10 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I typed out a long thoughtful response to this last night, then decided it just wasn't worth it.

And yet you did it anyway:

8 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

In general, I’m happy to see thoughtful people engaging in respectful discussion about sensitive issues of race in America. We’re long overdue for such conversations and it’s fair to ask the questions about what should and should not be acceptable. It shows heretofore unrealized potential to become better people & have a more thoughtful society.

Specifically to this subject, it can definitely seem too PC or over the top or heavy-handed.

But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have the conversation, nor should it be a reason to hate all political correctness.

The rest of us should be able to entertain a mature discussion about whether or not he’s right. That doesn’t mean cancel culture is taking away our magical foozeball. ;) 

And damned glad you did. Great post, and absolutely worth it.

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3 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

As the offender, I couldn’t disagree more in my situation.

The problem isn’t that someone was offended. I was being offensive. It’s just a fact. The term is offensive, and i offended someone for using it so callously. 

The person I offended had a special needs daughter. And I used that horrible stigmatizing word in her presence. I felt awful for it because I am a caring human being and I knew I was in the wrong. I knew it instantly. And I felt the shame of knowing that I’d used the word for years.

and none of that is a bad thing. It’s how we grow as humans. As a society.  The offended party didn’t shame me or make me feel bad. I shamed myself. I felt bad. 

Some things simply are. This was one of those things. And I’m a better person for that painful experience. 

But back on topic, that was a big important thing. More people need to have those painful experiences. Learn to offend less on big important things. But also take care not to conflate smaller, more minor things to avoid the “everything is offensive to everyone” mindset. Like “owner” in FF being as important as calling someone the N word or R word. Or being bigoted or anti-Semitic. Those are the big ones. 

I’ve heard people say “well if everything is offensive to everyone then F it, I’ll just be offensive to everyone!” - that’s a cop out. And it also minimizes those big important universally offensive things by falsely equating them to little ones like we’re discussing here with “owners”. It also paints the offended as overly sensitive, which is a lot easier for some than just admitting they were wrong or more to the point, offensive.

And that’s not to say the “owners” issue should be dismissed. It, too, is worthy of discussion. It is important to anyone effected by it. But that’s not the same as a universally offensive things described above. 

We will have to agree to disagree. The only way to peace is not relying on people to be good or to not be offensive. We all suck and if we can all realize that, then when people suck, as they will, then we will not be offended. Because we know that we are all human and suck. It's a beautiful thing. Imagine living a life never being offended because your peace is not affected by what people do. What an amazing existence! The answer is not to walk on eggshells and worry about what you're saying and how you're saying it all the time. If I had an autistic child I would make sure that they knew that their value didn't come from what people say or do. That way they would never be offended and live a life of beautiful peace. 

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This thread is not going to be MASKED UP because a few folks are going overboard in their zest to try and tear down what doesn't need to be torn down. 

A poster asked if folks would join him in eliminating a word that if you go back to the OP, the word race isn't even mentioned. 

If you want to join me as others have pledged to do, that's awesome. If you feel different and can express it in a respectful or eloquent way, more props to you. 

But I am not going to give any dignity to folks who are simply trying to prove somehow my intent. That's something I don't have to prove, that's what you believe in your head/heart, that's on you not me but keep raising your hand and ID yourself, it's easier to sift thru the folks who want to post something worthwhile and those that want to just chuck some tomatoes. 

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1 minute ago, Mark Football said:

We will have to agree to disagree. The only way to peace is not relying on people to be good or to not be offensive. We all suck and if we can all realize that, then when people suck, as they will, then we will not be offended. Because we know that we are all human and suck. It's a beautiful thing. Imagine living a life never being offended because your peace is not affected by what people do. What an amazing existence! The answer is not to walk on eggshells and worry about what you're saying and how you're saying it all the time. If I had an autistic child I would make sure that they knew that their value didn't come from what people say or do. That way they would never be offended and live a life of beautiful peace. 

I don’t walk on eggshells. 

But I also don’t live like I’m the only person that matters either. I have empathy. And while I don’t live on razor’s edge trying to avoid offense, I don’t disregard when I do overstep. I try to learn from those experiences. You’ll never avoid offending everyone: But that doesn’t give anyone license to be completely offensive either. 

So yes - we will definitely have to agree to entirely. disagree.

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5 minutes ago, Mark Football said:

We will have to agree to disagree. The only way to peace is not relying on people to be good or to not be offensive. We all suck and if we can all realize that, then when people suck, as they will, then we will not be offended. Because we know that we are all human and suck. It's a beautiful thing. Imagine living a life never being offended because your peace is not affected by what people do. What an amazing existence! The answer is not to walk on eggshells and worry about what you're saying and how you're saying it all the time. If I had an autistic child I would make sure that they knew that their value didn't come from what people say or do. That way they would never be offended and live a life of beautiful peace. 

/thread

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10 minutes ago, whole-show said:

Some of what you’ve said I don’t disagree with but I’ve kept quiet the whole time as I first wanted to respond when I first read the op and thought it was crazy. As I stated though I wanted to see where this went and thought maybe I was wrong. Then I started reading other comments from people that stated you like to fish but I didn’t believe it as I’ve always liked your input and respected it so I still sat back, but now after I saw this last comment it came off as fishing. I seriously have used own in the past and my take is I’ve always thought of it as like owning a baseball, basketball, hockey, or football  card as this is fantasy so thought it was kind of silly to want to change the the word, but thought maybe I was wrong. However again after seeing that last comment and what others have said about you fishing in the past even though I’ve never seen it like I’ve stated from you it made me want to say something because after seeing that just now it instantly made me think yes he must be fishing. 

Bomb-Hail Mary, can you not see what was being posted as it related to football? The rest of your post is kind of all about you and on you, not me, sorry. 

Let's move on because going over and over a super moot thing is gonna only get worse. You want to use the word I asked folks to take a look at in the OP, go for it. Otherwise can't imagine what you are upset about. 

Cheers

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10 minutes ago, whole-show said:

Also if you’re being honest and no fishing I respect it. Even if I see it from a different view I respect your feelings, just see it completely different. I’ve never said own as owning someone, just said own as in owning that players stats in a fantasy world same as owning a sports players card in a collectors world. 

Let's go with that

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9 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Bomb-Hail Mary, can you not see what was being posted as it related to football? The rest of your post is kind of all about you and on you, not me, sorry. 

Let's move on because going over and over a super moot thing is gonna only get worse. You want to use the word I asked folks to take a look at in the OP, go for it. Otherwise can't imagine what you are upset about. 

Cheers

Never said I was upset, also not all about me. I said I was sitting back and respecting what you said. Just saw a lot of people say you fish and I didn’t believe it until the post I called you on. But yes we can just move on. I’m not here to get into it with you. It’s the way you feel and that’s great. Like I said previously I respect your stand. I don’t use own that often but yes I have and will I again, maybe not. Maybe what you’ve said makes sense to me. I usually do say I have so and so and not I own so and so but yes I have before. Maybe your post makes me change that. I’m just stating when I saw that post you made it did make me see a fishing attempt and maybe you did because of what was said. I may have missed something. I’ll say once again I respected you posting this. 

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1 minute ago, whole-show said:

Never said I was upset, also not all about me. I said I was sitting back and respecting what you said. Just saw a lot of people say you fish and I didn’t believe it until the post I called you on. But yes we can just move on. I’m not here to get into it with you. It’s the way you feel and that’s great. Like I said previously I respect your stand. I don’t use own that often but yes I have and will I again maybe not. Maybe what you’ve said makes sense to me. I usually do say I have so and so and not I own so and so but yes I have before. Maybe your post makes me change that. I’m just stating when I saw that post you made it did make me see a fishing attempt and maybe you did because of what was said. I may have missed something. I’ll say once again I respected you posting this. 

🤜🤛 

We're good, appreciate the kind words. 

The Shark Pool has been an incredible escape this year. I thought because I could absorb some of the posts that would be inevitable that I could make this work. Little did I know that Joe already covered this topic two years ago so I'm late to the party apparently. 

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