What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Mahomes to Kelce - Was it as Pass? (1 Viewer)

brownies19 said:
https://www.insider.com/video-patrick-mahomes-chest-pass-andy-reid-saints-2020-12

From the time it left Mahomes hand to first contact to Kelce's hand, did the ball advance forward making it a forward pass as it was ruled? My son has done some cool things on his iPad and trying to apply geometry from stationary points. I really don't think the ball advanced forward, and that it was a rushing TD by Kelce!

Has anyone else seen anything on this?
Click to expand...
Close. It’s not getting changed.

 
This would be a cool place to use the multi-camera 360 technology where you could freeze and rotate the image

 
brownies19 said:
https://www.insider.com/video-patrick-mahomes-chest-pass-andy-reid-saints-2020-12

From the time it left Mahomes hand to first contact to Kelce's hand, did the ball advance forward making it a forward pass as it was ruled? My son has done some cool things on his iPad and trying to apply geometry from stationary points. I really don't think the ball advanced forward, and that it was a rushing TD by Kelce!

Has anyone else seen anything on this?
Click to expand...
Shovel passes behind the line should not count as a forward pass..but they do.

 
Da Guru said:
Shovel passes behind the line should not count as a forward pass..but they do.
Click to expand...
Yeah both the TD and two point conversion (that underhand flip thing) would be runs to me (along with the little touch lass QBs give to the jet motion guys sometimes).

But these won’t change this week. I was hoping for that miracle too (thought i needed it before Ebron left the game last night)

 
Section 1, Article 1

SECTION 1 - FORWARD PASS

ARTICLE 1. DEFINITION

It is a forward pass if:

the ball initially moves forward (to a point nearer the opponent’s goal line) after leaving the passer’s hand(s)

the ball first strikes the ground, a player, an official, or anything else at a point that is nearer the opponent’s goal line than the point at which the ball leaves the passer’s hand(s).

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/forward-pass/

 
Da Guru said:
Shovel passes behind the line should not count as a forward pass..but they do.
Click to expand...
Not sure I agree with this. If this were the case, it would make any incompletion behind the line of scrimmage a fumble.

Or, maybe you mean just shovel passes? Which would also open a can of worms.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I agree it is extremely close, but it appears to me that the ball is moving slightly forward, making it a forward pass as opposed to a pitch, but it is close enough to re-examine.  The Chiefs under Coach Reid have been incredibly innovative on the offensive side of the football, but, of course, they would not find this level of success without Mahomes and elite receivers like Hill and Kielce.  Shovel passes, chest passes, no look passes, left handed passes -- they are all passes if they are on a forward trajectory, and the distance the pass travels forward does not and should not matter, even if the pass itself does not extend beyond the line of scrimmage.  Nor should the type of delivery matter, be it a traditional overhand throw, a sidearm toss, an underarm shovel pass or even a quick, two-handed chest thrust.  Fun play!

 
Every view I have, the ball left Mahomes hand in front of the 3 yard line, and first was touched by Kelce behind the 3 yard line. By definition, not a forward pass.

Review relative to Mahomes' back foot and where the ball was positioned on his body as was delivered....

Not sure how say 100% a pass, and clearly wasn't backwards??

 
brownies19 said:
Every view I have, the ball left Mahomes hand in front of the 3 yard line, and first was touched by Kelce behind the 3 yard line. By definition, not a forward pass.

Review relative to Mahomes' back foot and where the ball was positioned on his body as was delivered....

Not sure how say 100% a pass, and clearly wasn't backwards??
Click to expand...
Do you have another video because the one posted here it looks like Kelce caught it in front of the 3 as well. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't have any other videos. The ball first touches his hand behind the 3 yard line when you go by frame, which speaks to the direction in which the ball left Mahomes hand. The definition of forward pass doesn't default to where Kelce gained full possession, but the direction in which the ball was traveling.

 
looking at the video it looks like it is ever so slightly a forward pass. i would be shocked if the passing td gets taken away on this

 
jabarony said:
A lateral doesn't have to be backwards.  A lateral can be sideways.  It's pretty much defined as such.
Click to expand...
NFL rules do not reference "lateral" anywhere in the body with respect to field of play. The only time lateral is used in NFL rules is with reference to where teams can move laterally on the sidelines.

The clear definition of a forward pass as described above. What jaborony is describing as a sideways lateral is NOT a forward pass; it is not moving forward or to a point near the opponent's goal line:

"It is a forward pass if:

the ball initially moves forward (to a point nearer the opponent’s goal line) after leaving the passer’s hand(s)

the ball first strikes the ground, a player, an official, or anything else at a point that is nearer the opponent’s goal line than the point at which the ball leaves the passer’s hand(s)."

 
This is purely speculation on my behalf, but I would guess that the same logic applies here that applies with instant replays: there needs to be "incontrovertible visual evidence" that the original ruling was incorrect in order to reverse it.  To my untrained eye, it appears that the ball travels slightly forward in its trajectory, but (and again this is speculation) I think it is important to note that the play was originally recorded as a pass.  From the angles I have viewed, there is insufficient evidence, in my estimation, to change the stats from how they have been officially recorded.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Ministry of Pain
Jim Harbaugh vs Patrick Mahomes or How the West was Won
Replies
0
Views
140
Ministry of Pain
Ministry of Pain
T
Should we be selling .......Christian Watson.......Seriously
2
Replies
54
Views
2K
TampaMike19
T
Ignoratio Elenchi
  • Poll
10 plays to gain 10 rushing yards for $10M?
2 3
Replies
129
Views
2K
hamsterdam
hamsterdam

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top