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January 6th - what will happen?


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it seems like January 6th is the next big date on the Presidential calendar, with several events likely converging at the same time on that day:

  1. VP Pence to preside over session of Congress to count electoral votes
  2. large march/protest/demonstration/rally/battle royale being planned for DC
  3. implications are that Trump and his team will have something planned for this day as well

this makes me a little nervous because the probability for political shenanigans and/or protestor violence seems pretty high. undoubtedly, some Republicans in Congress will challenge certain electoral votes, and we don't know yet what role Pence will play in that. we've also got groups, including armed militia, from all over the country planning to travel to DC for the march, which might be shaping up to be the largest one yet. throw in Trump whipping everyone into a frenzy, and it's a recipe for...something?

hopefully it all goes off without a hitch, but it's definitely something to watch...

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The President told MAGA to do it MAGA said they were going to do it MAGA filmed themselves doing it Afterwards, MAGA bragged about it Clearly, it was ANTIFA’s fault

So they're finally following the CDC guidelines for the pandemic?

One is an ugly, decrepit wasteland ruled by an assortment of villains hoping to impose their will on peace-loving people everywhere who otherwise just want to be left alone to tend to their gardens.

Even if it comes to a vote, the House will not vote for it so it’s an exercise in futility (this time around) and it’s not something I would think some GOP leaders want.  Thankfully for them the GA elections are the prior day and we should know the results.  Some will join in assuming it won’t hurt them and will make Trump happy.  Trump will tweet more nonsense and that will mostly be the end of it.

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Lots of tweets from the loser of the election as he packs up to move to Florida. Content for radical right clickbait reporting. Wanna be tough guys with bad beards, faux-Patriot types will spout off for a short period. 

Biden will be prez.

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Several Republican Reps from deep red districts will object in a virtue-signalling display of fealty.

Tommy Tuberville will second their emotions.

House and Senate will vote along party lines, with a surprisingly-small number of Republicans joining the Democrats.

Pence ratifies Biden as President.

Any Republican who votes against Trump will be relentlessly attacked by him and his surrogates in their next primary.

 

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Just now, Sea Duck said:

Several Republican Reps from deep red districts will object in a virtue-signalling display of fealty.

Tommy Tuberville will second their emotions.

House and Senate will vote along party lines, with a surprisingly-small number of Republicans joining the Democrats.

Pence ratifies Biden as President.

Any Republican who votes against Trump will be relentlessly attacked by him and his surrogates in their next primary.

 

For sure this. Not sure how much sway he’ll have in 2 years but we’ll see.

Trump will definitely put Pence on blast, pretty sure that will be a first. Anyone who doesn’t support his fever dream conspiracy theories will be blamed for his loss.

He will never admit he lost while everyone knows he did. It really is interesting, crazy, sad to watch this all play out: 

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Just now, The General said:

For sure this. Not sure how much sway he’ll have in 2 years but we’ll see.

Trump will definitely put Pence on blast, pretty sure that will be a first. Anyone who doesn’t support his fever dream conspiracy theories will be blamed for his loss.

He will never admit he lost while everyone knows he did. It really is interesting, crazy, sad to watch this all play out: 

It's all theater at this point. There's no mechanism to switch electors, since the alternate electors were never certified.

The Republicans who object to the electors are doing nothing more than playing to their base (and to Trump). It's sad that any elected official in the Republican party would think that "playing to their base" means "opposing democracy", but that is where we are headed. It's even sadder that most of these people will likely win their primaries in landslides.

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I find this fascinating, but in the absence of any new earth-shaking evidence, I don't think anything will happen.

Make no mistake, there will be some congressmen that object to some of the electoral votes.  But this wouldn't be unprecedented, as in 2017 some democrats objected to Trump's votes, though the objection was quickly dispensed with due to Clinton having already conceded.

What I believe will happen:

1. Georgia (as an example) results are read:  One member of house will object, and then one member of senate must also object.   If that happens, the joint session would immediately pause, and both houses would go back to their chambers to debate for up to two hours.

2. Apparently, both houses would have to agree to rule out the results from a state, something that won't be happening.  Without both houses confirming, the results would stand, even though it could elongate the process for quite sometime and turn it into a circus.

 

Where it gets interesting is if you factor in the two sets of electors.  If you do a google search for dueling electors and look for articles written back in the spring/summer, you can find a lot of people on the left that were discussing all the nightmare scenarios that could happen.  Only over the past month has the entire left seemed to discount all that and taken the strategy of ignoring the threat.

As an example, this article which I've posted before:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-dueling-electors-explain/explainer-dueling-electors-pose-risk-of-u-s-vote-deadlock-idUSKBN2712M7

From that article:  "Academics have sketched out several scenarios. Under one, Pence as president of the Senate could throw out both sets of a state’s electors. Another contemplates that the House of Representatives would end up choosing between Biden and Trump. There is even a scenario in which the Speaker of the House, currently Democrat Nancy Pelosi, could become acting president."

 

The reality is that no one knows what would happen if Pence decided to throw out both sets of a state's electors.  The fact that academics have sketched out scenarios tells you that it's unchartered territory.  

But...at this point I don't honestly even think that the second set of electors will make their way into this process, because they haven't been certified in any of the states by the governor or legislature.  So while the republicans in every single battleground state DID send their electoral votes to congress, will they be included in the mahogany boxes to be counted?  I don't think they will.  But if they are....would the Republican senate and Pence, if they chose to, have the ability to push through Trump?  I honestly don't know what would happen in that scenario.  

 

It's ironic to me that few people on the left give these scenarios much thought, even though they think Trump has dictatorial tendencies.  If he does, this should worry them, right?

Imagine the scenario where the senate literally voted for the Republican sets of electors in PA/GA/WI/NV for example, but the House voted for the democrat electors.  Then imagine that Pence through both sets out and in the process set off a literal voting process where Trump retained the presidency through some fluke/loophole.

What power would the left have at that point?  What power would the media have?  

If there literally is a way for Trump to slip through the cracks and he gets confirmed, what could be done?  Nothing I wouldn't imagine.

But the fly in the ointment is that I don't think the Republican Senate would all vote for this.  No chance in the world, imo.  But theoretically if they did....could it happen?  

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6 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

It's all theater at this point. There's no mechanism to switch electors, since the alternate electors were never certified.

The Republicans who object to the electors are doing nothing more than playing to their base (and to Trump). It's sad that any elected official in the Republican party would think that "playing to their base" means "opposing democracy", but that is where we are headed. It's even sadder that most of these people will likely win their primaries in landslides.

That's the thing I can't find absolute clarity on.  If there are not dueling sets of electors, there's literally no way for Trump to win.  The only way something could happen is if there ARE dueling sets of electors.  But those second sets of electors were not certified, so my question is whether they will even be a part of the process?  

Meaning, will those votes even make it to Pence on January 6th?  Who puts all the results in the boxes for Pence to read out?  Because if they somehow do make their way to Pence, and if the republican senate actually did vote for the R set of electors, and if Pence did decide to act nefariously, THAT is where some crazy stuff could theoretically happen.

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1 hour ago, AAABatteries said:

Thankfully for them the GA elections are the prior day and we should know the results

Seems overly optimistic.

I thought these were close races - is that being overly optimistic? 

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8 minutes ago, shader said:
14 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

It's all theater at this point. There's no mechanism to switch electors, since the alternate electors were never certified.

The Republicans who object to the electors are doing nothing more than playing to their base (and to Trump). It's sad that any elected official in the Republican party would think that "playing to their base" means "opposing democracy", but that is where we are headed. It's even sadder that most of these people will likely win their primaries in landslides.

That's the thing I can't find absolute clarity on.  If there are not dueling sets of electors, there's literally no way for Trump to win.  The only way something could happen is if there ARE dueling sets of electors.  But those second sets of electors were not certified, so my question is whether they will even be a part of the process?  

Meaning, will those votes even make it to Pence on January 6th?  Who puts all the results in the boxes for Pence to read out?  Because if they somehow do make their way to Pence, and if the republican senate actually did vote for the R set of electors, and if Pence did decide to act nefariously, THAT is where some crazy stuff could theoretically happen.

No, those phony electors will not "make it" to Pence. (I mean, yeah, Sydney Powell could hand him an envelope titled "NAMES OF ELECTURS" but that doesn't mean that those names will be entered into the record.) The names of the certified electors are sent to the Office of the Federal Register shortly after the Electoral College meets, and they subsequently send the certified list to the Senate, and those are the names that Pence will be required by law to figuratively pull out of a box.

Pence will not have much of an opportunity to act nefariously, as the Senate does not have the sole power to certify the vote -- the objection process requires a majority vote from both houses, and the House will certainly vote down any objections.

By law, if the House and Senate do not agree on the objection, then the electors are certified. Pence does not have the authority to overrule that law.

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1 hour ago, shader said:

That's the thing I can't find absolute clarity on.  If there are not dueling sets of electors, there's literally no way for Trump to win.  The only way something could happen is if there ARE dueling sets of electors.  But those second sets of electors were not certified, so my question is whether they will even be a part of the process?  

Meaning, will those votes even make it to Pence on January 6th?  Who puts all the results in the boxes for Pence to read out?  Because if they somehow do make their way to Pence, and if the republican senate actually did vote for the R set of electors, and if Pence did decide to act nefariously, THAT is where some crazy stuff could theoretically happen.

The process is the same whether there are two sets of electors or not. If a state’s electors are contested, instead of accepting that state’s electors, they can opt not to award them at all. If Biden were to dip below 270, then there would be no elected winner and the House would vote for President and each state gets one vote and Trump would likely win. 

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A what if... say the House moved from a Dem majority to a slim GOP majority. Could Congress simply override the Electoral college and not recognize the electors certified by each state? 

Could a congressional majority in both houses negate the will of the people for partisan reasons?

What a silly way to run an election for the highest office of the country.

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5 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

A what if... say the House moved from a Dem majority to a slim GOP majority. Could Congress simply override the Electoral college and not recognize the electors certified by each state? 

Could a congressional majority in both houses negate the will of the people for partisan reasons?

Yes. It's a bit of a loophole in democracy.

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21 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

A what if... say the House moved from a Dem majority to a slim GOP majority. Could Congress simply override the Electoral college and not recognize the electors certified by each state? 

Could a congressional majority in both houses negate the will of the people for partisan reasons?

What a silly way to run an election for the highest office of the country.

It’s a gray area in the constitution/law that no one has tried exploiting yet.

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4 hours ago, shader said:

.  But theoretically if they did....could it happen?  

 

Trump could offer a guarantee of M4A for AOC and The Squad to flip. There are four more incoming HOR Democrats from this cycle who have links to the Squad as fringe allies. (Jamaal Bowman, Cori Bush, Mondaire Jones and Marie Newman)  Bernie Sanders and Tulsi Gabbard were both cancelled by the DNC brutally, so for M4A, they'd flip. Gabbard could get a cabinet post out of it. Sanders is edging into retirement phase, he's got nothing to lose. Elizabeth Warren, also aging, has zero shot at anything after Pocohantas, she has ties to Pressley. That's a few Senate votes as well.

Right now the House is 222/212.

Crushing Obamacare and Biden in the same stroke torches Barack Obama's legacy. Trump would give a lot to AOC to do that. Gaining a full M4A would position AOC well for 2024 ( why would Trump care what happens then?) as the media optics in the pandemic would make the move look populist and justified. To get M4A, AOC needs to flush Obamacare and she can't do that with so many old guard Obama/Biden loyalists still around. If Biden survives long enough to win reelection or Harris wins two cycles after Biden drops out after two years, it could be 12 to 20 years ( considering an 8 year GOP alternating run) before AOC gets a real chance at M4A.

Long shot but 2020 has been a bizarre year.

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10 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

It really comes down to whether the GOP gives a damn about the constitution and democracy and makes a stand against Trump or caves-in to the wannabe dictator.  

I think this question is entirely rhetorical at this point.

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11 hours ago, GordonGekko said:

 

Trump could offer a guarantee of M4A for AOC and The Squad to flip. There are four more incoming HOR Democrats from this cycle who have links to the Squad as fringe allies. (Jamaal Bowman, Cori Bush, Mondaire Jones and Marie Newman)  Bernie Sanders and Tulsi Gabbard were both cancelled by the DNC brutally, so for M4A, they'd flip. Gabbard could get a cabinet post out of it. Sanders is edging into retirement phase, he's got nothing to lose. Elizabeth Warren, also aging, has zero shot at anything after Pocohantas, she has ties to Pressley. That's a few Senate votes as well.

Right now the House is 222/212.

Crushing Obamacare and Biden in the same stroke torches Barack Obama's legacy. Trump would give a lot to AOC to do that. Gaining a full M4A would position AOC well for 2024 ( why would Trump care what happens then?) as the media optics in the pandemic would make the move look populist and justified. To get M4A, AOC needs to flush Obamacare and she can't do that with so many old guard Obama/Biden loyalists still around. If Biden survives long enough to win reelection or Harris wins two cycles after Biden drops out after two years, it could be 12 to 20 years ( considering an 8 year GOP alternating run) before AOC gets a real chance at M4A.

Long shot but 2020 has been a bizarre year.

And they would be dumb enough to believe a Trump guarantee? Seriously? 

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31 minutes ago, apalmer said:

And they would be dumb enough to believe a Trump guarantee? Seriously? 

 

If Trump gave a press conference on all outlets to announce it with AOC, The Squad, Warren, Gabbard and Sanders there.

If the GOP takes the Senate, and with AOC's Squad getting four freshman plus Gabbard, who has nothing to lose since she declined to run for reelection, that's 9 votes to swing the 222-212 current Democratic advantage.  Sanders and Warren give the GOP 2 more Senate votes.

With control of the Senate and with AOC's Progressive faction in tow, that means M4A would get pushed through Congress. Given the mess that is Obamacare ( I know Barack Obama is treated as some kind of mythical deity by some here but the ACA really has massive issues that won't ever go away ) and the economic devastation from the pandemic, M4A can run clean media optics. Even the left leaning MSM can't try to spin against it. You think the number of elderly in this country worried about Long Term Care are going to be happy if the DNC Obama/Biden faction tries to stop M4A in the current financial climate?  Also people with kids. Small business owners. America has already been printing money like it's going out of style, at this point, if the road to hyper inflation looks like almost certain anyway, at least it would help people and their families right now.

What are AOC's options? Obama and his loyalists plus Pelosi and her faction are already openly gunning for her.  Flipping now would allow her to cause a shift in 2022 where the GOP will take the HOR (Even Nate Silver/538 and his busted polling can't deny this) and wipe out some of her enemies in the DNC. What does AOC lose when more old guard DNC cronies in Congress loyal to the dinosaur Clinton/Obama/Pelosi/Biden regime get ousted? She's young, she can wait, user her social media platform to push forward more young progressive digital natives who owe their seats, campaigns and loyalty to her when the HOR flips over again when she's in a stronger position. Why do the work to push out existing stalwart Democrats, when she doesn't have the financial backing, who will hunt her when the GOP can do it with their campaign warchests?

This springboards her to the 2024 DNC ticket. In 2016, Republicans in the RNC didn't want Trump, he was just too damn popular and they could do nothing about it. He set the blueprint on how an outsider can jump the line from the traditional gut wrenching process of selling your soul to your party for decades first. AOC doesn't need to be loved by the DNC, she just needs to be so damn popular with the people in general that no one can stop her. This is very much a Julius Caesar/Pompeii dynamic. M4A gives her that platform. She pulls herself up while wiping out the entire Obama/Biden legacy and neutralizes Trump for 2024. Why would the rest of the Squad resist? AOC as POTUS gives them endless financial political pork? Why would the Squads incoming freshmen resist? They literally jump the line into positions that others have to gut it out for decades to get. Why would Gabbard resist? The DNC already snuffed her out ruthlessly. Why would Sanders and Warren resist? Their political careers are essentially finished. They have no chance at higher office, but AOC can place them in high cabinet positions without any resistance.

For AOC, it's a high risk/high reward move. Orange Man Bad doesn't change the strategic reality of AOC needing M4A to rise politically.

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January 6 will devolve into some desperate and cringe worthy political theatre that will cumulate into forcing all Republicans in Congress and Senate to cast a vote for/against Trump (it will be overwhelming against). This is a litmus test by design to determine feilty and collateral damage to our Nation be damned.

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1 hour ago, GordonGekko said:

 

If Trump gave a press conference on all outlets to announce it with AOC, The Squad, Warren, Gabbard and Sanders there.

Just like he's announced that he was repealing and replacing Obamacare and that the plan would be revealed in two weeks--five or six times. His promises aren't worth the paper they aren't printed on and all of those people know it. None of them are dumb enough to tie their futures to the possibility of "this time I can trust him".

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4 hours ago, apalmer said:

Just like he's announced that he was repealing and replacing Obamacare and that the plan would be revealed in two weeks--five or six times. His promises aren't worth the paper they aren't printed on and all of those people know it. None of them are dumb enough to tie their futures to the possibility of "this time I can trust him".

 

It's actually unclear to me if you see the functional difference between what you are talking about and actually saying you'll do it on a national platform, then give AOC the microphone to say it will happen, then say Gabbard will get a formal position to run it then have the press/MSM  immediately get the hard details in a packaged plan.

No one walks back from that.

Orange Man Bad does not equal immediate political suicide to justify your desire for Orange Man Bad. There is quite a bit to not like about Trump, but the way some of you woke lefty tribalists paint him as this cartoonish mustache twirling villain who burns orphanages, kills puppies and sells children into slavery is just bizarre.

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5 hours ago, apalmer said:

Just like he's announced that he was repealing and replacing Obamacare and that the plan would be revealed in two weeks--five or six times. His promises aren't worth the paper they aren't printed on and all of those people know it. None of them are dumb enough to tie their futures to the possibility of "this time I can trust him".

The ignore feature is your friend.

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1 hour ago, GordonGekko said:

 

It's actually unclear to me if you see the functional difference between what you are talking about and actually saying you'll do it on a national platform, then give AOC the microphone to say it will happen, then say Gabbard will get a formal position to run it then have the press/MSM  immediately get the hard details in a packaged plan.

No one walks back from that.

Orange Man Bad does not equal immediate political suicide to justify your desire for Orange Man Bad. There is quite a bit to not like about Trump, but the way some of you woke lefty tribalists paint him as this cartoonish mustache twirling villain who burns orphanages, kills puppies and sells children into slavery is just bizarre.

MItch McConnell:  Hold my beer.  

You're suggesting that the RNC will go for M4A despite fighting against it for the past 12 years.  

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17 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

MItch McConnell:  Hold my beer.  

You're suggesting that the RNC will go for M4A despite fighting against it for the past 12 years.  

The last 12 years didn't have a pandemic threatening to collapse the entire US economy, spiral all of us into hyper inflation and essentially sentence us all to death either from starving/COVID or inevitable war with China. The last 12 years didn't risk the GOP nightmare scenario of 2 years of Biden, then 10 of Kamala Harris while cities will burn from rioting since police involved shootings are a constant statistical reality and BLM donations are funneled into a Super PAC that ends up in the DNC's coffers. Trump would trade M4A for the political optics and four more years as POTUS right now rather than wait four years into the unknown.

The reality is each professional politician cares the most only about their own reelection first and foremost. You can't have power if you lose your seat. Trump has an undeniable impact all down the ticket for the RNC. The GOP sees the 14 HOR seats that flipped because of Trump's rallies and barnstorming when no one thought that could ever be possible. 3 of those seats flipped in California even after Newsom lock downs prevented Republican challengers from any kind of effective campaigning. The GOP projects to take the HOR in 2022. The GOP has held strong with state legislature seats as well under Trump. Trump helps people win and keep their seats. He chews up so much heat from the daily media cycle trying to gut him, it deflects nearly everyone else's mess as non stories.

If the masses want it and Republicans accept that voting against it will cost them their seats, then they won't vote against it. It also gives the people something besides the 600 dollars plus all the political pork that has outraged citizens from both sides of the aisle.

I said it was a long shot, but this is how you get more HOR votes. If there was ever a year for bizarre long shots, then 2020 is that year.

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1 minute ago, GordonGekko said:

The last 12 years didn't have a pandemic threatening to collapse the entire US economy, spiral all of us into hyper inflation and essentially sentence us all to death either from starving/COVID or inevitable war with China. The last 12 years didn't risk the GOP nightmare scenario of 2 years of Biden, then 10 of Kamala Harris while cities will burn from rioting since police involved shootings are a constant statistical reality and BLM donations are funneled into a Super PAC that ends up in the DNC's coffers. Trump would trade M4A for the political optics and four more years as POTUS right now rather than wait four years into the unknown.

The reality is each professional politician cares the most only about their own reelection first and foremost. You can't have power if you lose your seat. Trump has an undeniable impact all down the ticket for the RNC. The GOP sees the 14 HOR seats that flipped because of Trump's rallies and barnstorming when no one thought that could ever be possible. 3 of those seats flipped in California even after Newsom lock downs prevented Republican challengers from any kind of effective campaigning. The GOP projects to take the HOR in 2022. The GOP has held strong with state legislature seats as well under Trump. Trump helps people win and keep their seats. He chews up so much heat from the daily media cycle trying to gut him, it deflects nearly everyone else's mess as non stories.

If the masses want it and Republicans accept that voting against it will cost them their seats, then they won't vote against it. It also gives the people something besides the 600 dollars plus all the political pork that has outraged citizens from both sides of the aisle.

I said it was a long shot, but this is how you get more HOR votes. If there was ever a year for bizarre long shots, then 2020 is that year.

 That in itself isn't particularly true.

 

Trump spent 5 years demonizing the Left.  For the Left to now believe he's serious would be a fool's gambit.  Unless this thing was "deadmans swtiched" together....the most obvious result (if AOC and Co. foolish enough to do it) would be Trump promising it...McConnell agreeing to it....AOC betraying the DNC.....McConell backing away from it....Trump condemning McConnell publically while still supporting him........Collins/Murkowski/Romney being greatly concerned.

At that point AOC is DOA.

 

Trump MIGHT have been able to pull something off early in his term; but he was too content to be led around by the nose by the RNC.  He didn't want to do any heavy lifting by checking his ego at the door in an attempt to court some on the Left (and by extension...let the Right know that HE wouldn't be simply a signature for them).  As an outsider; a former Democrat/current Republican and one of the more Populist candidates of the past 100 years.....Trump might have been able to pull it off.  His personality shortcomings didn't allow that.  

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27 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

 That in itself isn't particularly true.

 

Trump spent 5 years demonizing the Left.  For the Left to now believe he's serious would be a fool's gambit.  Unless this thing was "deadmans swtiched" together....the most obvious result (if AOC and Co. foolish enough to do it) would be Trump promising it...McConnell agreeing to it....AOC betraying the DNC.....McConell backing away from it....Trump condemning McConnell publically while still supporting him........Collins/Murkowski/Romney being greatly concerned.

At that point AOC is DOA.

Trump MIGHT have been able to pull something off early in his term; but he was too content to be led around by the nose by the RNC.  He didn't want to do any heavy lifting by checking his ego at the door in an attempt to court some on the Left (and by extension...let the Right know that HE wouldn't be simply a signature for them).  As an outsider; a former Democrat/current Republican and one of the more Populist candidates of the past 100 years.....Trump might have been able to pull it off.  His personality shortcomings didn't allow that.  

 

So Trump demonized the left and Demcrats went hunting for him for the last five years. Kamala Harris took shots at Biden about racism and busing and said she believed the women who said Biden sexually harassed/assaulted/touched them. Didn't stop her from backtracking once there was self interest and political benefit in it for her. She and Biden can do that but Trump and AOC can't play ball?  Most of Trump's attacks on The Squad were against Ilhan Omar, she who funneled 3 million dollars in campaign money to her husbands political "consulting" business.

ZMachine asked if there was a way for Trump to get more HOR votes to shift the electors. Here it is, a longshot but a pathway with real incentive for both sides.

AOC is not betraying the DNC ( How loyal is the DNC after they stole the nomination from Bernie Sanders and gutted Tulsi Gabbard because she dared raise her voice about the DNC rigging the primaries?) She's making a high risk move at a cost to get M4A. Getting M4A was going to  cost her something bloody even if it wasn't with Trump. While there might be partisan and personal self interest for both AOC and Trump, the end result is a bipartisan agreement that will help the American people.  Expensive through the roof for sure, but it's undeniable it will help Americans.  Lots of FBG are in the age bracket where they have young kids and aging parents where Long Term Care might be a question. You think those folks wouldn't feel relieved that their parents would have a roof, clean food and some medical care in their old age without financially destroying their entire family?

Cocaine Mitch is not Palpatine the Sith Lord. If the majority of Republicans want to go for M4A, there's nothing he can do.

Why is AOC looking DOA? The POTUS seat tends to alternate parties. She's only 31, she can run until 2024 anyway. She has a better chance at the DNC ticket then with Trump going out than with Biden/Harris going for reelection.  Why should she play ball with most of the DNC? Most are Obama/Biden loyalists who will try to keep forcefeeding ObamaCare or Buttigieg's patch over in Medicare For All Who Want It as a large cover up for the flaws of the ACA.

You keep screaming ORANGE MAN BAD. This is how he keeps POTUS. This is how AOC gets M4A. You make it sound like you are filming a western.

I'm discussing an exchange of actual political capital here. Four more years of POTUS for HOR votes to shift electors and gaining M4A. AOC is not going to care about ego, shortcomings or a sound bite five years ago if she can get M4A and position herself for POTUS in 2024. They both can go into the media and claim they danced with the devil for the love of the American people.

It would not be easy and it would have some rough parts to it optics wise, but I'd wager it's doable.  You get someone brilliant and self aware like a krista4 to run point on PR/Crisis Management/Media Optics/Spin Control and it's something you can sell to the American people.

What are you going to say next? It's a long shot? Of course it's a long shot, this thread was started asking about long shots. Were you expecting people to not talk about long shots? Are you the kind of guy who walks into a bakery and shoots someone in the face because they can't change the oil in your truck?

Anyone else here going to present any other alternatives to flipping multiple HOR seats for Trump?  (222/212, you'll need to flip at least 6, AOC could have 2 of her freshmen buckle and have Gabbard opt out and still pull it off)  Is anyone else here got an option to talk about with 3 votes to spare?  Anyone?

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On 12/22/2020 at 4:44 PM, Sea Duck said:

Several Republican Reps from deep red districts will object in a virtue-signalling display of fealty.

Tommy Tuberville will second their emotions.

House and Senate will vote along party lines, with a surprisingly-small number of Republicans joining the Democrats.

Pence ratifies Biden as President.

Any Republican who votes against Trump will be relentlessly attacked by him and his surrogates in their next primary.

 

Pretty much this, except that there is a good chance no Senator goes along with the objection.  Some House Reps will object for political theatre, Pence will ratify, Trump will tweet.

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Just saw that Rep Gohmert of Texas filed a lawsuit vs Pence re his powers to override the electoral results and assign the slate of electors as he sees fit id there are competing objections.....its in texas in front of a Trump appointed judge....I cant see this gaining any traction but just the concept is frightening. 

Pence is in a tough spot...if he ratifies Trump and his supporters will turn on him and he knows it....he was just quoted as "continuing the fight" just a few days ago....Im not so sure this will simply be political therater.  

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56 minutes ago, Kiddnets said:

Just saw that Rep Gohmert of Texas filed a lawsuit vs Pence re his powers to override the electoral results and assign the slate of electors as he sees fit id there are competing objections.....its in texas in front of a Trump appointed judge....I cant see this gaining any traction but just the concept is frightening. 

Pence is in a tough spot...if he ratifies Trump and his supporters will turn on him and he knows it....he was just quoted as "continuing the fight" just a few days ago....Im not so sure this will simply be political therater.  

At this point, IIRC, the only certified electors are the 538 that were allocated based on popular vote and approved by the governor and SOS of each state. The ones the GOP appointed in the swing states as alternate electors were never officially voted on and certified. The state legislatures COULD have gone that route . . . bit they didn't. So when Pence opens the envelopes with certified electors in it on 1/6, there is only one set to pick from to count.

I did see a bunch of folks on Twitter suggesting that if he doesn't like the electors in the envelopes on 1/6, he can just choose not to open them and therefore those states don't count at all. Again, that is an option for the House and Senate if they vote not to count the electors from those states . . . but I do not believe that is up to Pence to choose to completely ignore 7 states.

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12 hours ago, Kiddnets said:

Just saw that Rep Gohmert of Texas filed a lawsuit vs Pence re his powers to override the electoral results and assign the slate of electors as he sees fit id there are competing objections.....its in texas in front of a Trump appointed judge....I cant see this gaining any traction but just the concept is frightening. 

Pence is in a tough spot...if he ratifies Trump and his supporters will turn on him and he knows it....he was just quoted as "continuing the fight" just a few days ago....Im not so sure this will simply be political therater.  

Steve Vladeck ( a constitutional law expert)

@steve_vladeck

If the Twelfth Amendment somehow gave the Vice President the power to unilaterally throw out electoral votes for the other guy in favor of their own party (and even *themselves*), one might think that one of them would've noticed by now. But I guess they were all just idiots..

(If anyone thinks the VP has this power under the 12 amendment let’s just forego the election for President every 4 years and just let the current VP pick the next President and Vice President.)

Edited by lazyike
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4 hours ago, lazyike said:

Steve Vladeck ( a constitutional law expert)

@steve_vladeck

If the Twelfth Amendment somehow gave the Vice President the power to unilaterally throw out electoral votes for the other guy in favor of their own party (and even *themselves*), one might think that one of them would've noticed by now. But I guess they were all just idiots..

(If anyone thinks the VP has this power under the 12 amendment let’s just forego the election for President every 4 years and just let the current VP pick the next President and Vice President.)

I guess it depends on what Pence decides to do.  If he literally decides not to count electoral votes, what would happen?  It's kind of a grey area.  The thing is, I don't personally think he or Trump have the guts to do it.  But if they did, what could congress do?  He is the president of the Senate and has the constitutional right to count the votes.  If he refuses to count the votes the way that states voted, what can be done immediately?  It would be one of the most unprecedented events in the history of the constitution and politics, but I just think it's unlikely to happen, because there is no upside for Pence.

It would be fun to watch it happen in a vacuum, or read a book where an author speculates about what would happen if a VP tried to force his party through, but I can't imagine any positive scenario that would arise from doing this, so I don't think Pence will be so bold.

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2 minutes ago, shader said:

If he literally decides not to count electoral votes, what would happen?

I've wondered this myself. What if they never call a session on the 6th? Or they just ignore the process altogether and proceed with other events? Crazy to even speculate but it is 2020 and I'll be no one ever expected a state to sue other states over their election processes either.

:shrug:

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57 minutes ago, shader said:

I guess it depends on what Pence decides to do.  If he literally decides not to count electoral votes, what would happen?  It's kind of a grey area.  The thing is, I don't personally think he or Trump have the guts to do it.  But if they did, what could congress do?  He is the president of the Senate and has the constitutional right to count the votes.  If he refuses to count the votes the way that states voted, what can be done immediately?  It would be one of the most unprecedented events in the history of the constitution and politics, but I just think it's unlikely to happen, because there is no upside for Pence.

It would be fun to watch it happen in a vacuum, or read a book where an author speculates about what would happen if a VP tried to force his party through, but I can't imagine any positive scenario that would arise from doing this, so I don't think Pence will be so bold.

I don't see Pence pushing the envelope on this.  Not sure why, or what evidence there is to back this up, but I get the feeling somehow that Pence doesn't care for Trump all that much.

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3 hours ago, shader said:

I guess it depends on what Pence decides to do.  If he literally decides not to count electoral votes, what would happen?  It's kind of a grey area.  The thing is, I don't personally think he or Trump have the guts to do it.  But if they did, what could congress do?  He is the president of the Senate and has the constitutional right to count the votes.  If he refuses to count the votes the way that states voted, what can be done immediately?  It would be one of the most unprecedented events in the history of the constitution and politics, but I just think it's unlikely to happen, because there is no upside for Pence.

It would be fun to watch it happen in a vacuum, or read a book where an author speculates about what would happen if a VP tried to force his party through, but I can't imagine any positive scenario that would arise from doing this, so I don't think Pence will be so bold.

I would assume that a lawsuit would be immediately filed to appoint the next in line to count the votes.....

Pence is in a tough spot....he either counts them and has to certify Biden the winner - incurring Trump  wrath or

Play shennanigans and hand every opponent he runs against in the future a softball to tee off on him in any election....."didnt perform his VP duty"..."turned his back on voters will" "democracy in peril".....

Word is he has a long international trip booked.....I think he has no choice but to do his job and then will run out of town to weather the following irate Trump storm to follow

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The VP's role is pretty well defined, he counts the votes.   Any kind of shenanigans Pence would pull with not counting votes would haunt him forever.  Pence is a stooge but he's not stupid.

If a couple GOP congressmen want to make objections and take it to the house and senate for vote than so be it but Pence will be in the clear.

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The Proud Boys getting the boot from their local hangouts in DC.  Not sure where they're going change into their costumes for the big day, but it seems like their haunts are closing shop to them on Jan. 5-6.

 

Quote

 

You don’t have to go home, but you can’t stay here.

Two downtown D.C. hot spots for the far-right Proud Boys — supporters of President Donald Trump and his continued, baseless claims about voter fraud in the 2020 election — will be closed during the planned Jan. 6 rally.

Hotel Harrington and Harry’s Pub will both be shuttered during the demonstration. In a Facebook post on Monday, the Hotel Harrington said it will close its doors from Jan. 4 to Jan. 6, citing visitor and employee safety. Refunds will be made to any prepaid reservations.

On its website, Harry’s Pub simply said it will be closed Jan. 5 and Jan. 6 with no further comment immediately available.

Hotel Harrington’s Facebook statement has well over 100 replies with voices chiming in from both sides.

“This place is ran by un-American racists,” one user said, posting a one-star review of the hotel. “They cater to terrorist organizations like antifa and the racist group Black Lives Matter. I would not recommend this place to my worst enemy.”

“Thank you for standing up against domestic terrorism,” commented a Facebook user on the hotel’s page.

Harry’s has recently been fined for multiple violations of local COVID-19 restrictions — including overcrowding and patrons not wearing masks.

The pro-Trump rally slated for Jan. 6 is the same day Congress is set to ratify Joe Biden’s election win. Organizers Women for America First says it expects some 5,000 participants for each park area to be used, according to the permit application.

The extremist Proud Boys group — who clashed with counterprotesters earlier in December in a night of violence that left four stabbed, including a police officer, and burned banners at Black D.C. churches — have vowed to be present in D.C. for both the Jan. 6 rally and Biden’s inauguration on Jan. 20.

Trump has encouraged his supporters to rally on Jan. 6: “Be there, will be wild,” he tweeted earlier this month, in a post Twitter later flagged for containing misleading information about election fraud.

 

 

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