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January 6th - what will happen?


Maik Jeaunz

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21 minutes ago, Desert_Power said:

Very interesting, hadn't seen the videos/pictures before. If it is a kitchen timer though, how was it supposed to go off?

No clue but it's creepy imo

 

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34 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Its almost as if it was an important event and there are still news stories coming out about people.

It almost as if they are brainwashing gullible minds. 

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You guys have been having the same argument for six months now. I don’t think anyone’s going to change their minds at this point. It appears that the criminals are being charged, and charged appropriately. That’s good enough for me. Not sure what more folks want to have happen at this point. The ship has sailed on the bipartisan commission.

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58 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

 

abhorrent, 

abominable, 

appalling, 

awful, 

disgusting, 

distasteful, 

dreadful, 

evil, 

foul, 

fulsome, 

gross, 

hideous, 

horrendous, 

horrible, 

horrid, 

loathsome, 

nasty, 

nauseating, 

nauseous, 

noisome, 

noxious, 

obscene, 

odious, 

offensive, 

rancid, 

repellent, 

repugnant, 

repulsive, 

revolting, 

scandalous, 

shocking, 

sickening, 

ugly

Man, I would have said “drink!” each time you used a word like this, but man, I don’t want anyone to die. 

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1 minute ago, bigbottom said:

Man, I would have said “drink!” each time you used a word like this, but man, I don’t want anyone to die. 

I’m well on my way through this list. 

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55 minutes ago, bigbottom said:

You guys have been having the same argument for six months now. I don’t think anyone’s going to change their minds at this point. It appears that the criminals are being charged, and charged appropriately. That’s good enough for me. Not sure what more folks want to have happen at this point. The ship has sailed on the bipartisan commission.

But they have been having fun liking each other’s posts and placing their laughing emojis here and there. I suppose there could be a handful of those across the country that will leave the cult at the end of August when yet another Trump projection is false, but not many...they are a stubborn lot

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4 hours ago, Dickies said:

Jon_mx re: Rittenhouse: he was there to protect property and the people yelling at him were definitely going to kill him if he didn’t kill them first.

Jon_mx re Capitol police: they were there to protect property, but the people yelling that they were going to kill the VP were totally harmless and weren’t actually going to kill anyone. 

This is great

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4 hours ago, Dickies said:

Jon_mx re: Rittenhouse: he was there to protect property and the people yelling at him were definitely going to kill him if he didn’t kill them first.

Jon_mx re Capitol police: they were there to protect property, but the people yelling that they were going to kill the VP were totally harmless and weren’t actually going to kill anyone. 

I brought something similar to this up awhile back. If this poor kid Rittenhouse showed up at the Capitol on Jan 6th - who would he have been shooting?

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3 hours ago, lazyike said:

But they have been having fun liking each other’s posts and placing their laughing emojis here and there. I suppose there could be a handful of those across the country that will leave the cult at the end of August when yet another Trump projection is false, but not many...they are a stubborn lot

Doomsday cultists never leave after the predicted end of the world day comes and goes.  The lie just keeps changing to a future date so the leader can continue to control and manipulate. 

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6 hours ago, Dickies said:

Jon_mx re: Rittenhouse: he was there to protect property and the people yelling at him were definitely going to kill him if he didn’t kill them first.

Jon_mx re Capitol police: they were there to protect property, but the people yelling that they were going to kill the VP were totally harmless and weren’t actually going to kill anyone. 

I was thinking something along these lines about the new video of the guy punching the cop.  If we use past precedent it would have justified lethal force in the minds of some. 

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6 hours ago, bigbottom said:

You guys have been having the same argument for six months now. I don’t think anyone’s going to change their minds at this point. It appears that the criminals are being charged, and charged appropriately. That’s good enough for me. Not sure what more folks want to have happen at this point. The ship has sailed on the bipartisan commission.

I'd like a lot more to happen, but it's clear it won't.  And while I respect the right to have a political opinion like some have here about this abhorrent attack on our democratic systems, I have no respect for the opinion itself. At all. None.

The people the stormed the capital are lucky I wasn't in charge of anything that day.

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27 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:

I'd like a lot more to happen, but it's clear it won't.  And while I respect the right to have a political opinion like some have here about this abhorrent attack on our democratic systems, I have no respect for the opinion itself. At all. None.

The people the stormed the capital are lucky I wasn't in charge of anything that day.

And I have no respect for prosecutors who charge based on race and/or politics.   The need of the left to politicize our justice system completely disgusts me.  

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Just now, jon_mx said:

And I have no respect for prosecutors who charge based on race and/or politics.   The need of the left to politicize our justice system completely disgusts me.  

Drink!

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31 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:

I'd like a lot more to happen, but it's clear it won't.  And while I respect the right to have a political opinion like some have here about this abhorrent attack on our democratic systems, I have no respect for the opinion itself. At all. None.

The people the stormed the capital are lucky I wasn't in charge of anything that day.

I get what you’re saying 100%. But I see folks getting frustrated with one another here and I just see the debate as futile at this point.

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1 minute ago, bigbottom said:

I get what you’re saying 100%. But I see folks getting frustrated with one another here and I just see the debate as futile at this point.

True. But debate and discussion is the life blood of a representative democracy. For all the, what I would call abject nonsense, from those that would downplay what happened that day, the discussion taking place here, is kind of the point.

We get to do this. We should really remember that. Many people in this world don't.  

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4 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:

True. But debate and discussion is the life blood of a representative democracy. For all the, what I would call abject nonsense, from those that would downplay what happened that day, the discussion taking place here, is kind of the point.

We get to do this. We should really remember that. Many people in this world don't.  

Fair. 

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27 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

And I have no respect for prosecutors who charge based on race and/or politics.   The need of the left to politicize our justice system completely disgusts me.  

Yes, you've made your opinion quite clear.

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4 hours ago, 2Squirrels1Nut said:

Doomsday cultists never leave after the predicted end of the world day comes and goes.  The lie just keeps changing to a future date so the leader can continue to control and manipulate. 

Now do the Russian Dossier CollusionTMcultists!

You guys have no business talking about cultists, conspiracy theories or anything of the sort.

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25 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Now do the Russian Dossier CollusionTMcultists!

You guys have no business talking about cultists, conspiracy theories or anything of the sort.

Believing that the Steele Dossier was the basis for the investigation is part of the Trump cult. Contrary to a conspiracy theory promoted by Trump and many of Trump's congressional supporters, the dossier was not the trigger for the opening of the FBI's "Crossfire Hurricane" counterintelligence investigation into "whether individuals associated with the Donald J. Trump for President Campaign were coordinating, wittingly or unwittingly, with the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

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34 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Now do the Russian Dossier CollusionTMcultists!

 

For some reason you keep bringing up Trump in most of your posts while simultaneously bagging on other posters for bringing up Trump in their posts. Can't have it both way friend

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Things I'd like to see less of: 

Now do ...

Full stop!

emoji as argument

Back to the thread,  the January 6 protest was sad but understandable given the false belief by many that the election was stolen. The January 6 storming of the capitol was a violent insurrection by any definition. I hope all those responsible are punished appropriately.

Off topic: the summer 2020 protests fostered historic positive change. The summer 2020 riots were a travesty and I hope those responsible get punished appropriately.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, the moops said:

For some reason you keep bringing up Trump in most of your posts while simultaneously bagging on other posters for bringing up Trump in their posts. Can't have it both way friend

That or BLM Antifa

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2 hours ago, the moops said:

For some reason you keep bringing up Trump in most of your posts while simultaneously bagging on other posters for bringing up Trump in their posts. Can't have it both way friend

Uhm...you have me confused with someone else.

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Michigan US Representative (R) Meijer tweet-

"Not peaceful.
Not “let in by police.”
Not Antifa. 
Not FBI. (Can’t believe I have to say that.)

January 6th was not whatever ridiculous conspiracy or white-washing explanation liars are peddling. It was what it was: a violent attempt to stop the constitutional transfer of power."

 

I agree with my Republican friend. I can't believe we keep having the same debate here either.

Edited by lazyike
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15 hours ago, BladeRunner said:

I can't wait to hear about the 180 you did and why, suddenly, after all of your years leftism was your answer.  :thumbup:

my transition was a bit before 2015.  It pre-dated Trump.  Here's a thread  from 2015 where I discussed my transition.  I was intrigued by Bernie's ideas - not fully bought in yet but I was definitely slipping towards the liberal side.

A big part of it is I find conservatism to be extremely selfish - "every man for himself", "rugged idealism", etc.  when I look around, I notice that these ideas work very well for the haves but not so much for the have-nots.  I recognize that we aren't all starting from the same place and certain people have much more impediments to overcome.  Further, "every man for himself" allows people to take communal things for themselves - I'm talking about deregulation allowing companies to pollute, allowing financial companies to take larger and larger risks and threatening the entire financial system, etc.  The whole deregulation mantra makes this country a worse place.

I have always strongly preferred Republican positions for foreign policy as well.  I do like having a strong army and we can't be afraid to project power.  I liked us being the worlds go-to force to keep things safe - that's what Republicans used to believe, but that changed over the past few years so...Of course, there being no WMD's in Iraq didn't help the cause.

In general though, my transition was in large part because of reading political discussions and debates here @ FBG for years.  IMO, the liberals made much more coherent arguments and I was persuaded to their sides.  It was as if my eyes were opened and I saw that nearly everything the conservatives were preaching was just wrong.

Trump really pushed me over the top. 

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14 minutes ago, lazyike said:

"January 6th was not whatever ridiculous conspiracy or white-washing explanation liars are peddling. It was what it was: a violent attempt to stop the constitutional transfer of power."

The bolded is what makes January 6th so much different from anything else we've ever witnessed in our history. The violence, imo, isn't what made it so horrendous. Yes, there was violence. The most we've ever seen? Certainly not. But that's not the issue. The people who keep hammering on the violence are missing the forest for the trees. Jan. 6th is a stand-alone event, not to be included in whatever events people want to compare it to.

There is no comparison. If they were BLM or any Dem group storming and occupying the Capitol, the people trying to diminish the facts would be apoplectic over it. But it was their team so there's a need to downplay it. And I certainly do not think an attempt to stop the Constitutional transfer of power can be overstated. It must NEVER happen again.

Edited by Amused to Death
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6 minutes ago, moleculo said:

my transition was a bit before 2015.  It pre-dated Trump.  Here's a thread  from 2015 where I discussed my transition.  I was intrigued by Bernie's ideas - not fully bought in yet but I was definitely slipping towards the liberal side.

A big part of it is I find conservatism to be extremely selfish - "every man for himself", "rugged idealism", etc.  when I look around, I notice that these ideas work very well for the haves but not so much for the have-nots.  I recognize that we aren't all starting from the same place and certain people have much more impediments to overcome.  Further, "every man for himself" allows people to take communal things for themselves - I'm talking about deregulation allowing companies to pollute, allowing financial companies to take larger and larger risks and threatening the entire financial system, etc.  The whole deregulation mantra makes this country a worse place.

I have always strongly preferred Republican positions for foreign policy as well.  I do like having a strong army and we can't be afraid to project power.  I liked us being the worlds go-to force to keep things safe - that's what Republicans used to believe, but that changed over the past few years so...Of course, there being no WMD's in Iraq didn't help the cause.

In general though, my transition was in large part because of reading political discussions and debates here @ FBG for years.  IMO, the liberals made much more coherent arguments and I was persuaded to their sides.  It was as if my eyes were opened and I saw that nearly everything the conservatives were preaching was just wrong.

Trump really pushed me over the top. 

Mine started a bit before that.  Somewhere in Bush's 2nd term and on into Obama's 1st. (after having voted for Bush and McCain)  Which led me to then vote 3rd party in rather than Romney and again 3rd party rather than Hillary or Trump.

When I saw similar things.  More and more, the GOP was no longer standing for the things that I believed in.  Moving away from free trade, barely even playing lip service to fiscal conservative ideals any longer.  They seemed to push and spend just as much, increase the debt just as much...but often not spending on what I was interested in any longer.

And yes...the phenomena of Trump has pushed me even further away from what the GOP currently is.

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16 minutes ago, moleculo said:

my transition was a bit before 2015.  It pre-dated Trump.  Here's a thread  from 2015 where I discussed my transition.  I was intrigued by Bernie's ideas - not fully bought in yet but I was definitely slipping towards the liberal side.

A big part of it is I find conservatism to be extremely selfish - "every man for himself", "rugged idealism", etc.  when I look around, I notice that these ideas work very well for the haves but not so much for the have-nots.  I recognize that we aren't all starting from the same place and certain people have much more impediments to overcome.  Further, "every man for himself" allows people to take communal things for themselves - I'm talking about deregulation allowing companies to pollute, allowing financial companies to take larger and larger risks and threatening the entire financial system, etc.  The whole deregulation mantra makes this country a worse place.

I have always strongly preferred Republican positions for foreign policy as well.  I do like having a strong army and we can't be afraid to project power.  I liked us being the worlds go-to force to keep things safe - that's what Republicans used to believe, but that changed over the past few years so...Of course, there being no WMD's in Iraq didn't help the cause.

In general though, my transition was in large part because of reading political discussions and debates here @ FBG for years.  IMO, the liberals made much more coherent arguments and I was persuaded to their sides.  It was as if my eyes were opened and I saw that nearly everything the conservatives were preaching was just wrong.

Trump really pushed me over the top. 

Great post, thanks.   I have posted a couple time in the last month about how much the bolded really drives me crazy and that was a big motivator for me voting R less and less.    So much "I did it, why can't they", "me/mine", etc   

 

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44 minutes ago, moleculo said:

my transition was a bit before 2015.  It pre-dated Trump.  Here's a thread  from 2015 where I discussed my transition.  I was intrigued by Bernie's ideas - not fully bought in yet but I was definitely slipping towards the liberal side.

A big part of it is I find conservatism to be extremely selfish - "every man for himself", "rugged idealism", etc.  when I look around, I notice that these ideas work very well for the haves but not so much for the have-nots.  I recognize that we aren't all starting from the same place and certain people have much more impediments to overcome.  Further, "every man for himself" allows people to take communal things for themselves - I'm talking about deregulation allowing companies to pollute, allowing financial companies to take larger and larger risks and threatening the entire financial system, etc.  The whole deregulation mantra makes this country a worse place.

I have always strongly preferred Republican positions for foreign policy as well.  I do like having a strong army and we can't be afraid to project power.  I liked us being the worlds go-to force to keep things safe - that's what Republicans used to believe, but that changed over the past few years so...Of course, there being no WMD's in Iraq didn't help the cause.

In general though, my transition was in large part because of reading political discussions and debates here @ FBG for years.  IMO, the liberals made much more coherent arguments and I was persuaded to their sides.  It was as if my eyes were opened and I saw that nearly everything the conservatives were preaching was just wrong.

Trump really pushed me over the top. 

Thanks for posting this.  I'm always fascinated by conversions.

Quick question:  Do you think the liberals at FBG had more coherent arguments or they just beat you down relentlessly and you gave up?  This place is like a lefty viper pit.  One iota of disagreement to the liberal orthodoxy results in 100 posters hammering on you day in and day out.    Or maybe you just didn't have strong conservative positions in the first place?  Not trying to be a jerk, but people with strong convictions don't give up, IMO.

Edited by BladeRunner
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5 hours ago, moleculo said:

my transition was a bit before 2015.  It pre-dated Trump.  Here's a thread  from 2015 where I discussed my transition.  I was intrigued by Bernie's ideas - not fully bought in yet but I was definitely slipping towards the liberal side.

A big part of it is I find conservatism to be extremely selfish - "every man for himself", "rugged idealism", etc.  when I look around, I notice that these ideas work very well for the haves but not so much for the have-nots.  I recognize that we aren't all starting from the same place and certain people have much more impediments to overcome.  Further, "every man for himself" allows people to take communal things for themselves - I'm talking about deregulation allowing companies to pollute, allowing financial companies to take larger and larger risks and threatening the entire financial system, etc.  The whole deregulation mantra makes this country a worse place.

I have always strongly preferred Republican positions for foreign policy as well.  I do like having a strong army and we can't be afraid to project power.  I liked us being the worlds go-to force to keep things safe - that's what Republicans used to believe, but that changed over the past few years so...Of course, there being no WMD's in Iraq didn't help the cause.

In general though, my transition was in large part because of reading political discussions and debates here @ FBG for years.  IMO, the liberals made much more coherent arguments and I was persuaded to their sides.  It was as if my eyes were opened and I saw that nearly everything the conservatives were preaching was just wrong.

Trump really pushed me over the top. 

I think my transformation began sometime in 2016. I watched the GOP primary debates and looked to which of the candidates I could endorse. I went with Rubio but as time as gone on Rubio has become an embarrassment to me. I wish now I would have endorsed Kasich. But at the same time I was debating with a liberal cousin and it was becoming increasingly difficult not to see he was making a much more rational argument. Much like the irrational defense that Jan 6th was a peaceful protest by Trump GOPers I realized I really couldn’t defend my point of view rationally.

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2 minutes ago, lazyike said:

I think my transformation began sometime in 2016. I watched the GOP primary debates and looked to which of the candidates I could endorse. I went with Rubio but as time as gone on Rubio has become an embarrassment to me. I wish now I would have endorsed Kasich. But at the same time I was debating with a liberal cousin and it was because increasingly difficult not to see he was making a much more rational argument. Much like the irrational defense that Jan 6th was a peaceful protest by Trump GOPers I realized I really couldn’t defend my point of view rationally.

See this is where it becomes confusing.  If you have strong conservative principles but don't like the direction of your Party you don't run to the Democrats and start defending every liberal policy out there and certainly don't start bagging on conservatives all day long.  You can still remain true to your principles AND not like the direction of your party at the moment.

I think, at the end of the day, you guys may not have been as conservative as you thought.  

Also, in reference to the bolded above you need to understand a couple things:

  1. When we call it a "peaceful protest" its not because we really believe it was peaceful.  At least not for me.  It's because for the last 2 years you were calling the BLM/Antifa insurrections as "peaceful protests" where people were being murdered and assaulted, neighborhoods being burned to the ground, businesses looted and ENTIRE CITY BLOCKS TAKE OVER.  YOUR side called those "Peaceful Protests" numerous times.  So all we are doing is holding you to YOUR standards.  If you're going to call Jan 6th non-peaceful, you certainly need to step up and call BLM/Antifa non-peaceful.  Us using "Peaceful Protest" to describe Jan 6th is just to point the absurdity of using it for BLM/Antifa.
  2. Jan 6th was ONE DAY.  BLM/Antifa destruction, looting and violence have been going on for about 2 years now.  2 years vs one day but all you're focused on is one day.
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9 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Thanks for posting this.  I'm always fascinated by conversions.

Quick question:  Do you think the liberals at FBG had more coherent arguments or they just beat you down relentlessly and you gave up?  This place is like a lefty viper pit.  One iota of disagreement to the liberal orthodoxy results in 100 posters hammering on you day in and day out.    Or maybe you just didn't have strong conservative positions in the first place?  Not trying to be a jerk, but people with strong convictions don't give up, IMO.

There's partisan hacks that beat you up - they defend whatever the head of their party says, regardless of principle or consistency.  And there are people who make good, sound, well thought out arguments and back them up with facts.

This place used to have a lot more of the latter.  I'm talking about 2003 or even back to the Old Yeller days up thru probably Obamas first term.  Things seemed to get worse around then.  Obama was very polarizing, I think that's probably when things took a turn for the worse around here.

As far as convictions, I think one had to allow for growth.  I am not the same man I was 25 years ago.  I am married, have kids, employees, and responsibilities now.  Why would my convictions be the same? 

Further, I would argue that untested convictions aren't really convictions at all.  And, you can't really test them without honestly be willing to change.

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24 minutes ago, lazyike said:

I think my transformation began sometime in 2016. I watched the GOP primary debates and looked to which of the candidates I could endorse. I went with Rubio but as time as gone on Rubio has become an embarrassment to me. I wish now I would have endorsed Kasich. But at the same time I was debating with a liberal cousin and it was because increasingly difficult not to see he was making a much more rational argument. Much like the irrational defense that Jan 6th was a peaceful protest by Trump GOPers I realized I really couldn’t defend my point of view rationally.

If you can't defend your point of view rationally, you really have no choice but to change your view, IMO.

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12 minutes ago, the moops said:

George Floyd was killed on May 25th. It was not almost 2 years ago

Okay, then over a year. Does that make everything okay then? All of the murder,assault, looting, arson and countless acts of violence because it hasn't been two years?

Jan 6th doesn't even hold a candle to OVER A YEAR of all of that - which is still going on to this day, btw.

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Whenever I read these pages in this thread I’m always comforted to know how fair and evenhanded @jon_mx is. I don’t question for 1 moment that if it had been antifa on January 6 and it’s gone down exactly the same as it did he would certainly be defending it as no big deal and a walk in the park.  Just a few loud people with no bad intentions at all.  🙄🤦

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2 hours ago, Bottomfeeder Sports said:

I've never seen that before and honestly, it makes me sad. 

The Apostles thought that the end of the world would happen in their lifetime.  I doubt most people know that. The celestial can has been kicked down the road every generation since. 

To me, it's quite clear what Jesus Christ was attempting to to teach.  We should all love one another. Treat everyone we meet as if they are Jesus Himself. 

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1 hour ago, moleculo said:

 

A big part of it is I find conservatism to be extremely selfish - "every man for himself", "rugged idealism", etc.  when I look around, I notice that these ideas work very well for the haves but not so much for the have-nots.  I recognize that we aren't all starting from the same place and certain people have much more impediments to overcome.  Further, "every man for himself" allows people to take communal things for themselves - I'm talking about deregulation allowing companies to pollute, allowing financial companies to take larger and larger risks and threatening the entire financial system, etc.  The whole deregulation mantra makes this country a worse place.

Trump really pushed me over the top. 

Same here.  It's not the way I live my life and not the way I was taught to be a Christian.  It's nice to read that someone else had a similar conversion. 

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50 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Okay, then over a year. Does that make everything okay then? All of the murder,assault, looting, arson and countless acts of violence because it hasn't been two years?

 

No, it doesn't make it OK. But the embellishment is unnecesary to make your point

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1 hour ago, BladeRunner said:

Okay, then over a year. Does that make everything okay then? All of the murder,assault, looting, arson and countless acts of violence because it hasn't been two years?

Jan 6th doesn't even hold a candle to OVER A YEAR of all of that - which is still going on to this day, btw.

Disagree. 1/6/21 was an affront against the democratic process of this country.

 

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23 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

Is there anyone not using the "BUT WHAT ABOUT BLM RIOTS?" defense in their enabling of the Capitol Hill Putsch gang?  

Should we?  Is this an official Team Red stance?  I'll have to adapt to it if so.

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