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January 6th - what will happen? (1 Viewer)

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Just to address the "DJ trolling" comments, by my count, the DJ played all of the following at one point or another prior to Trump's address of the crowd.

* Titanic theme song - Self-explanatory
* Beat It - Self-explanatory
* Billie Jean - "But the kid is not my son..."
* Fortunate Son - Self-explanatory
* Macho Man
* Tiny Dancer
* Gloria - "Was it something that he said, Are the voices in your head..."
* Don't Stop Believing
* Brain Damage - "The lunatics are on the grass"

That is an incomplete list, it is only the ones I heard.
What really indicts high level trolling is what DJ in 2021 at a political event is putting "Brain Damage" in their playlist? The rest you can understand as they are popular songs, but a deep cut from a 1973 Pink Floyd album?? LOL.

 
Everyone in the Capitol had their cameras out. I imagine it is only a matter of time until someone pieces together all the footage and we get a clear picture of who helped who or who didn't.
Kind of a tangent but I was somewhat amazed at the phones and go pros that were out - for two reasons - 1. Does nobody just enjoy a moment any more?  My god, even some of those old farts out there were videoing.  2. What kind of special moron breaks the laws videos it?  Just mind bottling.

 
When some of these rioters go on trial, I'm wondering if we hear some of these lines:  "I was only doing what the President directed me to do.  He told me on the stage to take back our country, to Stop the Steal.  How can I be guilty of doing what the President of the United States of America directed me to do?"
Perhaps. The Nuremberg trials are so well-remembered that many people believe that "just following orders" is a losing defense -- but that's not been 100% consistent even in recent history.

 
@BladeRunner, we didn't have an honest discussion.  I shared some information, and you twice came at it hard from 180 degrees the other direction.  As you say here, "the truth hurts," meaning you feel you've got the truth and anyone else (like me) is wrong.  So we're not going to make any headway ...there's not going to be a reasonable give and take of ideas.  Anything further in our little exchange would be a waste of our (and the thread's) time.
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't have a monopoly on the truth. I want to come to the table and talk about issues that are hard to talk about.  Especially race because I think it's important.  I'm always willing to listen.  I know there is common ground to start in.

I don't think we would be wasting our breath.

 
When some of these rioters go on trial, I'm wondering if we hear some of these lines:  "I was only doing what the President directed me to do.  He told me on the stage to take back our country, to Stop the Steal.  How can I be guilty of doing what the President of the United States of America directed me to do?"
This is why the vast majority of demonstraters won't be prosecuted, IMO. Basically, anyone who didn't go beyond "trespass" is going to get off the hook. They're going to argue that they had tacit permission from both the President and from the police (who opened the gates).

 
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also sort of busts the DJ was trolling narrative, as they were all dancing to Gloria.
Just because they don’t realize there is trolling, doesn’t mean it’s not happening. But also that’s like the least important piece of the day. Just a funny sidenote.

 
This is why the vast majority of demonstraters won't be prosecuted, IMO. Basically, anyone who didn't go beyond "trespass" is going to get off the hook. They're going to argue that they had tacit permission from both the President and from the police (who opened the gates).
My daughter was listening to a video last night of a guy saying he thought it was ok to go into the capital building because the police opened the gates for them.

 
Thorough reporting on the journey of Ashli Babbitt, shot and killed at the Capitol.

For me, this put a face and a personal story to how she/we got to a very sad day in our history.

(Warning: the article contains links to video from the event including her shooting)

The Journey of Ashli Babbitt

Chilling...

As Babbitt lay dying on the floor, her fellow members of the crowd pulled out their phones and began to film, illuminating her body with the lights of their devices.

 
Rep. Clyburn - raising some questions:

Carl Quintanilla @carlquintanilla

House Majority Whip Clyburn on@SIRIUSXM:  

“They went where you won't find my name, but they found where I was supposed to be. So something else was going on untoward here.”

Apparently the protestors skipped his office, where his name plate was, and went to an undisclosed location where Clyburn normally works - which does not have his name.

 
An article I read about impeachment brought up an interesting point. If the Senate convicted Trump, it would prevent him from running in 2024. If you're a Republican senator with presidential aspirations in four years, do you vote to convict in an effort to ensure Trump can't run, or cater to his base by voting to acquit?

In any case, I don't think there are 20 Republicans who would vote to convict, but it could be a free-for-all if Biden doesn't run again. 

 
Thaaat looks like the Trump contingent ready to go out and address the crowd at the rally ...prior to the riot.
Yes sorry. I should be more clear. This was prior to Trump speaking not during the actual riot. 

Up to this point he had only encouraged people to come to DC prepared to fight after months of baseless claims and conspiracy theories. Not sure who had spoken up to the point of that video.

 
It's almost time for a Jan 20th thread. 

Rick Scott says Trump should attend the innaguration. Bad idea IMO.

>>I am urging @realDonaldTrump to reconsider his decision to skip the inauguration of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. I plan to attend and believe it is an important tradition that demonstrates the peaceful transfer of power to our people and to the world.<<

https://mobile.twitter.com/SenRickScott/status/1347601801420402692

 
I’m really torn on this impeachment question. I can’t blame any of the Democrats who are pushing for this: all of their arguments, IMO, are compelling and valid. What he did was wrong, it deserves impeachment and removal, it’s not safe to have him in there another 12 days, and if Republicans don’t agree let’s at least put them on record. I agree with ALL of that. 
On the other hand, it will effectively prevent Biden’s attempt to heal or at least make it a thousand times more difficult. It risks turning Trump into a victim or martyr. And McConnell will simply ignore it and run out the clock anyhow. 
I simply don’t know. 

 
Rep. Clyburn - raising some questions:

Carl Quintanilla @carlquintanilla

House Majority Whip Clyburn on@SIRIUSXM:  

“They went where you won't find my name, but they found where I was supposed to be. So something else was going on untoward here.”

Apparently the protestors skipped his office, where his name plate was, and went to an undisclosed location where Clyburn normally works - which does not have his name.
That seems disturbing.  But also hard to believe.

 
It's almost time for a Jan 20th thread. 

Rick Scott says Trump should attend the innaguration. Bad idea IMO.

>>I am urging @realDonaldTrump to reconsider his decision to skip the inauguration of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. I plan to attend and believe it is an important tradition that demonstrates the peaceful transfer of power to our people and to the world.<<

https://mobile.twitter.com/SenRickScott/status/1347601801420402692
Uh, yeah.  Terrible idea.  Have him there to start a violent mob rally?  No thanks.

 
An article I read about impeachment brought up an interesting point. If the Senate convicted Trump, it would prevent him from running in 2024. If you're a Republican senator with presidential aspirations in four years, do you vote to convict in an effort to ensure Trump can't run, or cater to his base by voting to acquit?

In any case, I don't think there are 20 Republicans who would vote to convict, but it could be a free-for-all if Biden doesn't run again. 
If he is impeached and removed do we still have to shovel millions of dollars at him for protection and post presidential upkeep?

 
Thorough reporting on the journey of Ashli Babbitt, shot and killed at the Capitol.

For me, this put a face and a personal story to how she/we got to a very sad day in our history.

(Warning: the article contains links to video from the event including her shooting)

The Journey of Ashli Babbitt

Chilling...
Sad video. Can’t believe there is a guy calling for a medic like he’s playing battlefield

 
It's almost time for a Jan 20th thread. 

Rick Scott says Trump should attend the innaguration. Bad idea IMO.

>>I am urging @realDonaldTrump to reconsider his decision to skip the inauguration of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. I plan to attend and believe it is an important tradition that demonstrates the peaceful transfer of power to our people and to the world.<<

https://mobile.twitter.com/SenRickScott/status/1347601801420402692
I agree with you.  Ideally, the outgoing president should attend his successor's inauguration, and I hope Pence is able to attend in that capacity.  Trump has no business being there.

 
If he is impeached and removed do we still have to shovel millions of dollars at him for protection and post presidential upkeep?
I think post-presidency protection is up to Congress.

A few years ago, they changed the time period from "life" to 10 years, before changing it back to lifetime protection.

 
The word riot is in the link you used.  Is this schtick?
CNN artfully dodged calling it a riot, opting for violence instead.  It was used twice in the same paragraph toward the bottom of the article, one in a quote - 

Using spray paint, Nijiya, their wife, and coworkers covered the shop with slogans and quotes to inspire protesters. Among them was Martin Luther King Jr.'s famous words: "A riot is the language of the unheard."

"I think a lot of people think that these riots are not part of our history and that they don't do anything," Nijiya said. 

I wonder if MLK's beliefs hold true from Wednesday - A riot being the language of the unheard?

 
When some of these rioters go on trial, I'm wondering if we hear some of these lines:  "I was only doing what the President directed me to do.  He told me on the stage to take back our country, to Stop the Steal.  How can I be guilty of doing what the President of the United States of America directed me to do?"
How'd that work out for Eichmann?

 
Why are the summer riots and the Capitol incursion even being spoken about together? Can't each exist as their own bad acts on their own terms?

It's not like someone on trial for stealing $1,000 can credibly say "I know of someone who stole $900 ... what about them?" Such a statement would be disregarded, and the trial of the $1,000 thief proceeds as normal.
They are comparable in that they re both crimes of the same type, but they are not of the same degree at all. 
The vast majority of summer protests were nowhere near the scope of this. Like not even same planet. I have zero issues saying that. 

But it isnt really a good argument what happened at CHAZ isnt pretty darn close. And was basically allowed to continue because the mayor took an anti trump stance so it was clearly a political issue.

I mean you had an area of the city partitioned off with armed guards. You had businesses held captive, people that lived there restricted. They took over city hall at least once. You had an internal security force that mowed down a jeep out for a joyride, killing one of the teens with a fatal head shot, injured the other. They took over a police station. I mean wtf?!?!

Was a single person prosecuted for anything? 

I dont bring this up to defend what happened yesterday. I want all of them charged. Every one. If they were caught on camera stealing letterhead, boom, theft. You threw a pipe? Federal prison you go. Treapass for you. Trespass for you. I mean come on, look at the DA thread I started? You think I want less people charged??

I bring it up because I find some of the talk a bit annoying, especially concerning the response of police. And I am bringing it up in what is mostly a fairly private forum and i am bringing up to the people that I converse with daily. 

It isnt like I am bombarding parler trying to tell these fools what they did was a-ok because blm did some stuff too. 

 
I’m really torn on this impeachment question. I can’t blame any of the Democrats who are pushing for this: all of their arguments, IMO, are compelling and valid. What he did was wrong, it deserves impeachment and removal, it’s not safe to have him in there another 12 days, and if Republicans don’t agree let’s at least put them on record. I agree with ALL of that. 
On the other hand, it will effectively prevent Biden’s attempt to heal or at least make it a thousand times more difficult. It risks turning Trump into a victim or martyr. And McConnell will simply ignore it and run out the clock anyhow. 
I simply don’t know. 
Unless and until we start holding people accountable for these kinds of transgressions, they'll keep happening. Every time we fail to do so pretty much makes things worse. I view holding people accountable as a large part of the healing everyone is talking about, because as a society we seem to have little to no concept of right or wrong anymore - just whatever it takes to get what I want.

 
Kind of a tangent but I was somewhat amazed at the phones and go pros that were out - for two reasons - 1. Does nobody just enjoy a moment any more?  My god, even some of those old farts out there were videoing.  2. What kind of special moron breaks the laws videos it?  Just mind bottling.
I've been to exactly ONE large concert in the last, oh, 10 years or so.  Radiohead, 2017 and it was everything I wanted it to be and more.  But what struck me was the number of people in attendance who had their phones out recording it.  Just enjoy the show, man.  

 
The vast majority of summer protests were nowhere near the scope of this. Like not even same planet. I have zero issues saying that. 

But it isnt really a good argument what happened at CHAZ isnt pretty darn close. And was basically allowed to continue because the mayor took an anti trump stance so it was clearly a political issue.

I mean you had an area of the city partitioned off with armed guards. You had businesses held captive, people that lived there restricted. They took over city hall at least once. You had an internal security force that mowed down a jeep out for a joyride, killing one of the teens with a fatal head shot, injured the other. They took over a police station. I mean wtf?!?!

Was a single person prosecuted for anything? 

I dont bring this up to defend what happened yesterday. I want all of them charged. Every one. If they were caught on camera stealing letterhead, boom, theft. You threw a pipe? Federal prison you go. Treapass for you. Trespass for you. I mean come on, look at the DA thread I started? You think I want less people charged??

I bring it up because I find some of the talk a bit annoying, especially concerning the response of police. And I am bringing it up in what is mostly a fairly private forum and i am bringing up to the people that I converse with daily. 

It isnt like I am bombarding parler trying to tell these fools what they did was a-ok because blm did some stuff too. 
No it's not pretty close. It's not close at all. 

Not one of the riots this summer exposed a weakness in our national defense. Not one of them did. Movies and TV shows have been written using the idea of congress being taken out in it's entirety. It was even the butt of the joke in "Invaders from Mars" when Jack Nicholson's line said "Two out of three branches of our government still exist... and that's not bad." These people shared for weeks what they were going to do on numerous socially media sights, and if one... just one of our enemies had put two and two together, there would have been half a dozen additional people in that crowd with backpacks that got into the Capitol and it would be a shell right now, and Designated Survivor would be more than a show we watch on Netflix.

So no, you've provided nothing to me to even remotely move me towards the position that they're close... not even pretty close.  

 
When some of these rioters go on trial, I'm wondering if we hear some of these lines:  "I was only doing what the President directed me to do.  He told me on the stage to take back our country, to Stop the Steal.  How can I be guilty of doing what the President of the United States of America directed me to do?"
How'd that work out for Eichmann?
The reason why soldiers don't get away with the excuse of "I was just following orders" is because there is an implied expectation that they have been trained in the rules of warfare. They are expected to know better.

But when an average untrained citizen is encouraged or permitted to commit crimes by the authorities, then we start getting to a much greyer area. I think that many of Wednesday's demonstrators will be able to mount a legitimate argument that they thought their behavior was permitted, if not legal.

 
It is kind of funny/sad - Mods did not want to hear anything about Rudy declaring at the rally that he wanted to bring Trial by Combat to the table.

Its like if you pretend bad people saying bad things don't happen - the world will hear itself.

I think its important that we listen to people when they say they want to do bad things.

 
just one of our enemies had put two and two together, there would have been half a dozen additional people in that crowd with backpacks that got into the Capitol and it would be a shell right now, and Designated Survivor would be more than a show we watch on Netflix.
This reminds a lot of what we used to hear from the Bush administration. But what if the terrorists get nukes!!!!!!

Let's take a deep breath here. We need an inquiry into the failures of the Capital Police and possibly the FBI. We need to prosecute any rioters we can find to the fullest extent of the law. But let's stop it with the threat inflation. This is how civil liberties get curtailed, surveillance authority expanded, etc.

 
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