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January 6th - what will happen?


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The President told MAGA to do it MAGA said they were going to do it MAGA filmed themselves doing it Afterwards, MAGA bragged about it Clearly, it was ANTIFA’s fault

One is an ugly, decrepit wasteland ruled by an assortment of villains hoping to impose their will on peace-loving people everywhere who otherwise just want to be left alone to tend to their gardens.

So they're finally following the CDC guidelines for the pandemic?

4 minutes ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

In most jurisdictions, the underlying “dangerous felony” that would support a felony murder conviction are codified by statute. I doubt that unlawful entry or even felony trespass would suffice (nor should it, IMO). 

Some of these guys and gals specifically called out what they were going to do, in advance.  Kill Congresspeople, stop the electoral college proceedings, etc.  Insurrection, interfering with elections, etc.  Seems like that could be used to show intent to commit a more serious crime.  But, you know... #stayedataHolidayInn

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1 minute ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Of course the calculation changes a little bit with the death of the officer, right?

Way out of my element here - but if the cause of death is beating by mob, and you are part of the mob - that is a closer nexus to the death, than one of your own mob-members getting shot by the police.

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Just now, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Some of these guys and gals specifically called out what they were going to do, in advance.  Kill Congresspeople, stop the electoral college proceedings, etc.  Insurrection, interfering with elections, etc.

Right. Some of the rioters may be amenable to the charge. I just don’t think everyone who entered the Capitol is. 

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16 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Lawyer types, how broad can an aggressive prosecutor go with charges?  Is everyone who broke into the Capitol on the hook for the murder charge?  What about the people who broke through the barriers but didn't make it inside the building?  How broad can they go?

There's so much footage of this event and so many people working on IDing them that it's only a matter of time before we know the names of almost all of them.

They had an FBI analyst on CNN the other day.  She said the people that forced their way into the capitol by either breaking things or pushing against the mob, will be treated much harsher then the people who entered afterwords through a wide open door and just took pictures and selfies.

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I don't have any other details, but more sadness:

 

Geoff Bennett@GeoffRBennett · 1h

Capitol Police announces the death of another officer: “The United States Capitol Police is deeply saddened by the off-duty death of Officer Howard Liebengood, age 51.  He was assigned to the Senate Division, and has been with the Department since April 2005.”

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8 minutes ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Here is another that speaks to the efforts being undertaken by acting U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia. They have one hell of a task in front of them. Allowing people to just stoll out of the Capitol adds major complexity to the investigations.

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/10/955314373/d-c-s-acting-u-s-attorney-calls-scope-of-capitol-investigation-unprecedented

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I don't think it needs to happen immediately - but there needs to be a full-scale investigation by Congress (or Special Commission) - into how everything went wrong on January 6.

 

Every thing needs to be examined - from the top-down.  There was a clear breakdown(s) somewhere - and it/they need(s) to be identified and fixed.

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2 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

I don't have any other details, but more sadness:

 

Geoff Bennett@GeoffRBennett · 1h

Capitol Police announces the death of another officer: “The United States Capitol Police is deeply saddened by the off-duty death of Officer Howard Liebengood, age 51.  He was assigned to the Senate Division, and has been with the Department since April 2005.”

The rumor is that this is a suicide.  

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2 minutes ago, kwille said:

Here is another that speaks to the efforts being undertaken by acting U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia. They have one hell of a task in front of them. Allowing people to just stoll out of the Capitol adds major complexity to the investigations.

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/10/955314373/d-c-s-acting-u-s-attorney-calls-scope-of-capitol-investigation-unprecedented

It does.

Though having spent some time looking around Twitter this AM, there's are thousands of people working on IDing the main people involved in the most noteworthy events of the day.  Thankfully most of them worse something that makes it pretty easy to track them throughout the day and find clean photos of their faces.

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35 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Lawyer types, how broad can an aggressive prosecutor go with charges?  Is everyone who broke into the Capitol on the hook for the murder charge?  What about the people who broke through the barriers but didn't make it inside the building?  How broad can they go?

There's so much footage of this event and so many people working on IDing them that it's only a matter of time before we know the names of almost all of them.

Could you make an argument about the elements in a law exam? Sure. Do I think any prosecutor would cast that wide a net charging murder? No.

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22 minutes ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

I think the analysis has to go a bit further than the silly usage of treason as the underlying felony. The Supreme Court has previously held that when a federal statute uses the generic "burglary" that it means "an unlawful or unprivileged entry into, or remaining in, a building or other structure, with intent to commit a crime." Taylor v. United States, 495 U.S. 575 (1990).

If I'm @Dinsy Ejotuz's hypothetical "aggressive prosecutor", I'm arguing that I have underlying "intent to commit a crime" in spades. Theft, the execution of the Vice President of the United States, sedition, etc. It would be a longer than normal shot. It's not going to happen. 

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6 minutes ago, The General said:

Has there been an explanation as to why certain police opened up the barricades to let in the rioters? There is at least one area where they did this that is on video.

Three possibilities: 

1. They were instructed by higher ups beforehand to do so. (The conspiracy angle). 
2. They were sympathetic to the mob. 
3. Faced with overwhelming numbers, fearful for their own safety, they decided on the spot to cooperate. 
 

I suspect, but I don’t know, that it’s #3. 

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6 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Three possibilities: 

1. They were instructed by higher ups beforehand to do so. (The conspiracy angle). 
2. They were sympathetic to the mob. 
3. Faced with overwhelming numbers, fearful for their own safety, they decided on the spot to cooperate. 
 

I suspect, but I don’t know, that it’s #3. 

Sorry meant an official response where this video was commented on.

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8 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Three possibilities: 

1. They were instructed by higher ups beforehand to do so. (The conspiracy angle). 
2. They were sympathetic to the mob. 
3. Faced with overwhelming numbers, fearful for their own safety, they decided on the spot to cooperate. 
 

I suspect, but I don’t know, that it’s #3. 

What's the difference between the Capital and Mordor?

One does not simply walk into Mordor

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1 minute ago, BobbyLayne said:

What's the difference between the Capital and Mordor?

One is an ugly, decrepit wasteland ruled by an assortment of villains hoping to impose their will on peace-loving people everywhere who otherwise just want to be left alone to tend to their gardens.

The other is an invention of fantasy author JRR Tolkien.

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44 minutes ago, Chaz McNulty said:

They had an FBI analyst on CNN the other day.  She said the people that forced their way into the capitol by either breaking things or pushing against the mob, will be treated much harsher then the people who entered afterwords through a wide open door and just took pictures and selfies.

I'm not sure if the people who walked in afterwards -- and didn't damage anything, didn't steal anything, and didn't confront police -- should be charged with any crimes at all.

Those are the types of people who often get their charges dropped when there are mass arrests at other protests (whether the protests are related to BLM, antifa, abortion, oil pipelines, etc.) I lean towards applying the law equitably here.

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Just now, dawgtrails said:

Not that I want to watch it, but how has there been no video of how/why/when the officer who was supposedly bludgeoned with a fire extinguisher?

There is, I just didn't link to it above.  I try not to watch stuff like that, so don't have the details leading up to the still in that link.

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1 minute ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

There is, I just didn't link to it above.  I try not to watch stuff like that, so don't have the details leading up to the still in that link.

Isn't that just a still photo? It's hard to gather too much context from that

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5 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

Isn't that just a still photo? It's hard to gather too much context from that

The videos are out there.  I've seen most on YouTube.   Go there or Google it. 

Or for any anti-big tech trumpsters, I'm sure even Jeeves could find it.  

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brohans when arnold schwartzenegger talks serious and talks nazis you have to listen thats a fact jack but when he busts out the conan sword well brohans lets just hope we see him crush trumpism see it driven before us and hear the lamentations of its press secretaries take that to the bank   

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Was just talking with my wife about DC Statehood, and if DC had a Governor how much faster would the National Guard have gotten to the Capitol.  Or would it have mattered since the Capitol would still have been on federal district grounds?

Still not sure how I feel about it.  Previously have been against DC being a state.  But I also don't think the founders could have anticipated just how populated this federal district would become.  I could be swayed now.

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Hugo Lowell @hugolowell · 48m

Just in: US Capitol attending physician Brian Monahan now sends out alert that Members in the safe room during attack on Capitol may have been exposed to coronavirus. Many Republicans refused to wear masks.

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6 minutes ago, beef said:

Previously have been against DC being a state.  

Why is that? Seems like a simple stance that if those who live there pay taxes, they should have representation.

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Just now, Desert_Power said:

Hugo Lowell @hugolowell · 48m

Just in: US Capitol attending physician Brian Monahan now sends out alert that Members in the safe room during attack on Capitol may have been exposed to coronavirus. Many Republicans refused to wear masks.

A congresswoman from California was interviewed while they were in hiding and admitted that she left the safe room to go to a less secure place because she was unable to convince some members to wear masks and didn’t feel safe. Unbelievable that they wouldn’t even wear a mask in that situation.

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1 minute ago, Biff84 said:

A congresswoman from California was interviewed while they were in hiding and admitted that she left the safe room to go to a less secure place because she was unable to convince some members to wear masks and didn’t feel safe. Unbelievable that they wouldn’t even wear a mask in that situation.

Not really, unfortunately. Grrr

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7 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

A congresswoman from California was interviewed while they were in hiding and admitted that she left the safe room to go to a less secure place because she was unable to convince some members to wear masks and didn’t feel safe. Unbelievable that they wouldn’t even wear a mask in that situation.

Apparently at least one of those who refused was Qanon fan Marjorie Taylor Greene. 

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16 minutes ago, BigJim® said:

Why is that? Seems like a simple stance that if those who live there pay taxes, they should have representation.

Because a federal property is part of the Constitution.  The rules were we'll established before people moved there.  

The federal district could be shrunk down though.  Make it a new state or split it between VA and MD.  I'd probably be more in favor of this.  

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3 minutes ago, beef said:

Because a federal property is part of the Constitution.  The rules were we'll established before people moved there.  

Thanks, was unaware of how this was dealt with in the Constitution, but that was based on outdated facts (clearly an uninhabited area should not have representation). Looks like the current population of DC exceeds Wyoming and Vermont, and is in the ballpark of Alaska/Ndak.

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what is needed for statehood is that something all the states have to ratify or can that be just be done by congress take that to the bank brohans

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It would be quite interesting proposal to have the capital district shrunk to only cover a narrow stretch of federal government buildings like Supreme Court, Capitol, Mall, White House, and Lincoln Memorial.  Give the rest back to Maryland.  I would think that only very few residences would remain inside this small district.  

It would change MD politics dramatically, effectively ending any influence from the eastern shore and western rural areas.  There would be major funding battles between DC and Baltimore.  And MD (and likely the Democrats) would gain a few (1? 2? 3?) extra Congressional seats at the expense of states.

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For anyone who says, they did not see this coming, or writes it off as just a one-off, but a few bad apples, I remind you of this incident - last fall:

 

‘We Love What They Did’: Florida Sen. Marco Rubio Supports Pro-Trump Caravan That Swarmed Biden Bus

 

In my opinion, these patriots did nothing wrong. Instead, the FBI & Justice should be investigating the terrorists, anarchists, and agitators of ANTIFA, who run around burning down our Democrat run cities and hurting our people!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 2, 2020

 

According to The Washington Post,  Sen. Rubio, R-Florida, also offered support to those Trump supporters at a late night rally at Opa Locka Executive Airport on Sunday night.

“I saw yesterday a video of these people in Texas,” Rubio said at the rally before Trump’s arrival. “Did you see it? All the cars on the road, we love what they did.”

 

 

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1 minute ago, Sinn Fein said:

For anyone who says, they did not see this coming, or writes it off as just a one-off, but a few bad apples, I remind you of this incident - last fall:

 

‘We Love What They Did’: Florida Sen. Marco Rubio Supports Pro-Trump Caravan That Swarmed Biden Bus

 

In my opinion, these patriots did nothing wrong. Instead, the FBI & Justice should be investigating the terrorists, anarchists, and agitators of ANTIFA, who run around burning down our Democrat run cities and hurting our people!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 2, 2020

 

According to The Washington Post,  Sen. Rubio, R-Florida, also offered support to those Trump supporters at a late night rally at Opa Locka Executive Airport on Sunday night.

“I saw yesterday a video of these people in Texas,” Rubio said at the rally before Trump’s arrival. “Did you see it? All the cars on the road, we love what they did.”

 

 

Good article here as well.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/capitol-rioters-planned-for-weeks-in-plain-sight-the-police-werent-ready/

 

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This is a video from a distance of the moment when they dragged the officer down the steps and started beating him. It is not graphic from this distance, in case anyone is squeamish. https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1348347827173412866?s=20

I have so many questions, but my first one is how did this not result in the those other officers firing into the crowd to stop these people? They watch an angry mob drag their fellow officer down the steps and start beating on him but they don't retaliate?

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2 hours ago, Biff84 said:

A congresswoman from California was interviewed while they were in hiding and admitted that she left the safe room to go to a less secure place because she was unable to convince some members to wear masks and didn’t feel safe. Unbelievable that they wouldn’t even wear a mask in that situation.

There’s a video on Reddit of Lisa Rochester-Blount handing out masks while they were sheltered in the Capitol. A number of Republicans telling her to pound sand. 

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